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InvisibleFunkyLoFi
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Ego Loss even at small doses
    #5695288 - 05/31/06 03:17 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I have tripped around 30 times on cubensis , 1 time on p. caerulipes, and about 7 times on LSD. My first 15 mushroom experiences were all great, with no discomfort at all really. At this point my average dose was about 4 grams. As time progressed, my normal dose began to feel too much for me, and I usually only ate around 2 grams for my last 10 trips. The reason I started to reduce my doses was because I was getting very strange bodily symptoms. For instance, if I went to scratch an itch on my head, it would feel as if my hand went into my head. Or I would try to move my hand from my leg and it would feel as if the two had fused together. Weird shit and it freaked me out. It sucked too, because tripping has been such a great part of my life. I wanted to continue with my psychedelic voyages but I really felt like I couldn't handle the body distortion. I waited a couple months to trip again. I thought I was ready but there is always this feeling in the back on my mind like Can I handle this if it happens again. I was able to eliminate those body morphing feelings, but once I did the bodily symptoms came in another form. On a couple recent trip my whole face went numb. I couldn't feel any of my facial expressions. I couldn't handle that.

I picked up a copy of Timothy Leary's Psychedelic Experience by recommendation of a very good friend. After reading it, I made the realization that I was on the verge of ego loss, but for whatever reason I wasn't able to "let go". I started to contemplate the reasons why I struggle so much with giving up my body. I couldn't come to any serious answer. And when I'm sober I feel confident that I will be able to just let whatever happens, happen. But once I started to trip and get the bodily symptoms, I lose it.

I think I have a strong attachment to my body, and I don't know how to lose that. When I think about it, I don't think I have ever been able to let go...I always fight it. Even on the smallest of doses I am experiencing these symptoms. I feel I have become way more sensitive to mushrooms than I used to be.

I feel like letting go is something that I have to do...I want to know what it is like to successfully be able to forget "I". I'm tired of anxious trips and not being willing to lose touch with this world. I think a solo trip is in order in a few weeks.

Also, I don't get any of these feelings on LSD.


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InvisibleJim
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Re: Ego Loss even at small doses [Re: FunkyLoFi]
    #5696149 - 05/31/06 07:06 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

the closest I have come to reaching 'ego loss' was from smoking dmt... One of my problems is I have a firm footing in reality, and always have to feel in control so subconciously I just can't 'let go'.

I have had major doses of mushrooms, and lsd, have tried injecting dmt, dpt... never anything that has made me say, yes, I experienced ego loss.


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Use the Fucking Reply To Feature You Lazy Pieces of Shit!

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Jim, if you were in my city, I would let you fuck my wife.


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InvisibleDontFearThePeepr
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Re: Ego Loss even at small doses [Re: Jim]
    #5696240 - 05/31/06 07:28 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

if you *want* the ego-loss, then you could just take a very large dose. i would imagine after a certain point that you wouldn't have control over whether or not you'd like to maintain a foothold in "reality"

also, maybe try a different strain? you mentioned tripping on cubensis, try cyans (if you haven't already), and if you can actually find them...

just remember they are MUCH stronger. 4 grams of cubes may take you to the verge of ego-loss, but that amount in cyans will....do much more.


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Offlinenightkrawler
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Re: Ego Loss even at small doses [Re: FunkyLoFi]
    #5696888 - 05/31/06 09:37 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

ive done mushrooms around 25 times now, lsd, i have no idea, but a lot more than mushrooms. up until around 15 trips on mushrooms for me i used to love the high doses.

5 grams was my average dose. did 1/4 a few times. i had a blast. i felt like lower doses (an eighth or under) never took me as far as i wanted to go. that's definitely changed for me now. i'm completely happy with half an eighth now. i feel like it takes me just as far as my 5 gram trips took me. on 5 grams i would always get that lose your face ego loss, when you can't tell what your face is doing, whether your mouth is open or closed. i now get that with half an eighth. i took a gram once and i was buggin out.

i used to post on these boards about not really tripping on any less than 4.5 grams. man, that has that changed.

i'm not sure, but i think the more you trip, the less you have to take. i think your mind becomes more used to the feeling, and goes with it a lot better. it takes you farther. maybe, maybe not. maybe i've just been getting stronger mushrooms.


--------------------

Not all who wander are lost - J.R.R. Tolkien


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InvisibleFunkyLoFi
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Re: Ego Loss even at small doses [Re: nightkrawler]
    #5697220 - 05/31/06 10:46 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

nightkrawler said:
ive done mushrooms around 25 times now, lsd, i have no idea, but a lot more than mushrooms. up until around 15 trips on mushrooms for me i used to love the high doses.

5 grams was my average dose. did 1/4 a few times. i had a blast. i felt like lower doses (an eighth or under) never took me as far as i wanted to go. that's definitely changed for me now. i'm completely happy with half an eighth now. i feel like it takes me just as far as my 5 gram trips took me. on 5 grams i would always get that lose your face ego loss, when you can't tell what your face is doing, whether your mouth is open or closed. i now get that with half an eighth. i took a gram once and i was buggin out.

i used to post on these boards about not really tripping on any less than 4.5 grams. man, that has that changed.

i'm not sure, but i think the more you trip, the less you have to take. i think your mind becomes more used to the feeling, and goes with it a lot better. it takes you farther. maybe, maybe not. maybe i've just been getting stronger mushrooms.




Thank you for your reply.  It makes me feel better that someone else can attest to that same feeling.  There were times when I thought sometime was seriously wrong with me.  :goinsane: 

I think that this is something I have to personally overcome.  Can you believe that I once thought I wasn't scared of dying?  :confused:  I feel that this is a blessing in disguise.  I must learn to let go.  And I will.  To be honest, the biggest goal in my life right now is to overcome my fear on losing touch with this material world. 

Anyways, thanks to the people that commented...please keep them coming. :mushroom2:


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InvisibleFunkyLoFi
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Re: Ego Loss even at small doses [Re: Jim]
    #5697280 - 05/31/06 11:00 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Jim said:
the closest I have come to reaching 'ego loss' was from smoking dmt...  One of my problems is I have a firm footing in reality, and always have to feel in control so subconciously I just can't 'let go'.

I have had major doses of mushrooms, and lsd, have tried injecting dmt, dpt...  never anything that has made me say, yes, I experienced ego  loss.




Jim, I think we may be similar in many ways.  When I was tripping at the ohio camp out I had this strange feeling that I had already known you.  This feeling was especially strong later at night before you retired to your tent.  We were both kinda pacing about, I really didn't know what to do with myself and for some reason I felt like you were feeling the same as I was. 

But anyways, I'm beginning to think that alot of people struggle with ego loss.  The way we have been raised in such a materialistic world (in the U.S. at least) makes it very difficult to let it fade away.  Personally, until I found psychedelics my main concerns were with material things.  I think the biggest change it has caused is in my judgement of my fellow peopole. When I was younger I used to be very judgmental and group people into sterotypes by the way they look.  I no longer partake in this try my best not to judge people before I get to communicate with them. 

But yea, I'm kinda drunk and rambling on....  :alc:


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InvisibleRobMarley420
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Re: Ego Loss even at small doses [Re: nightkrawler]
    #5697297 - 05/31/06 11:03 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

nightkrawler said:
i'm not sure, but i think the more you trip, the less you have to take. i think your mind becomes more used to the feeling, and goes with it a lot better. it takes you farther. 




I totaly agree with that, I feel the same way.
:mushroom2:


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InvisibleBiG_StroOnZ
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Re: Ego Loss even at small doses [Re: RobMarley420]
    #5697428 - 05/31/06 11:28 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

try hippy flipping, you wont have a choice. However, it it will be the most happy ego loss ever.


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OfflineLysergic_Milkman
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Re: Ego Loss even at small doses [Re: FunkyLoFi]
    #5697527 - 05/31/06 11:49 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I understand where you are coming from on this, and you are not alone.

(DISCLAIMER: the information below is drawn from the personal experiences of a seasoned tripper, not from facts or statistics.)

The more you trip, the less sensitive your body becomes to the drug's effects, But also, the more you trip, the more you become aware of smaller changes in consciousness. This paradox is hard to describe, but I think that's what you're experiencing; the transition from the sensational trip to the exploratory trip (not to say that your trips weren't spiritual/exploratory before, they should just be more so now).

Losing one's ego is a difficult task for many, and seemingly natural for others. There really is no 'in-between' that I've seen. Either one extreme or the other.
There is no special trick to 'letting go', just treat it like you would any other problem. If one method doesn't work for you, find a different solution to the problem. Try looking at the problem from a different perspective.
for example, try just wording your goals differently. Instead of trying to 'let go', stop yourself from trying to 'keep control'. From that point of view, I believe the problem appears simpler (it is easier to lose than it is to gain). Next, identify what it is that gives you control, or the want of it.
1.) fear of death is an obvious reason to want control [believe it or not, this is one of the easier ones to get rid of (in my opinion)]. If you eliminate this, then there is less of a need for control. This is one of the first factors that I deal with, and it goes like this:
I never try to eliminate fear of death while sober, too hard. I always do this after dosing, either on the come-up or at the verge of the peak. I recite to myself, "Whatever happens, happens, and that's just what's going to happen. I can't change that, and I accept it." Once you've realized that you really have no control over what happens to you (a profound epiphany the first time it happens), then everything just seems to get better, like a huge weight lifted off of your chest. The "fuck it" attitude comes into play, and you will find yourself filled with bliss as the worries that inhibit your daily life dissolve in front of you (literally, sometimes).
(Note: the "fearless" mantra, as I call it, has also helped me out of several bad spots mid trip. Turned it around completely. Just remember that next time you start going down that black spiral)

2.) Fear of the unknown is another reason people want to keep control. Again, the 'fearless' mantra helps with this, but not always as much. Because the unknown is what it is, unknown, fear of it can spawn out of nothing. To keep it from coming back, one must either repeat their mantra constantly to keep themselves in the fearless state of mind, or keep it embedded in their souls. If you grasp and hold the idea of fearlessness firmly, then it will stick with you long enough for the ego to be killed.

3.) Fear of self is the big one, the one that stops many people dead in their tracks. It is impossible for the human mind to comprehend non-existence (just try and think about what it would be like if there were no universe), and if one is not careful for what becomes of one's self, then one must also not be fearful of wasting one's life, of living without experience. Such an attitude could only be in favor of non-existence. This is the part where the 'I' must go, the part where you struggle. This is where psychedelics come into play.
"So how do we go about getting rid of 'I'?" you ask. Technically, it cannot be destroyed, in part for the complicated reason stated above. Instead, we must "forget" about 'I'. One way to do this is to get so far away from 'I' that one cannot remember what 'I' is like, and must start consciousness over, without 'I'. In other words, you must shift your perspective to the point where 'I' becomes disconnected from 'me'. How you go about this is up to you, as I could not tell you how to forget about I exactly, but I can give you a hint:
You will know when your perspective has shifted enough when you are able to view 'I' objectively, when you are able to look at 'I' and analyze it without being "in 'I's shoes". When this occurs, then you know that you have disconnected 'I' from 'me'.


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InvisibleFunkyLoFi
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Re: Ego Loss even at small doses [Re: Lysergic_Milkman]
    #5698010 - 06/01/06 01:42 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Thank you so very much for taking the time to make that post.  Your insights have been more than wonderful.

I can't express enough how happy I am to be part of such a great community.  The support and love that comes through these pages is incredible! :psychsplit:


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OfflineLOBO
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Re: Ego Loss even at small doses [Re: FunkyLoFi]
    #5698640 - 06/01/06 07:11 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

In my case I need small relatively small doses (3.5-4 G) to have the full shroom experience, in the beginning I need it more.
For some reason, I have learned to navigate into there world better.
First I do them only twice a year and in a nature setting, second shrooms will show you a free ride in the beginning then you need to put some of your effort into it.
When you feel that you start to melt that’s your first door way into there world, don't anticipate anything like "ego death" just go down the rabbit hole (some times is scary) you are plunging into the unfamiliar, they are calling you to fallow them don't resist (talk to them) some times the scary thing you see needs to be seen (usually is a part of your self) once you learn the lesson they won't come back.
Ask for guidance and they will help, I find most of the times the answer you By "tackling you" and if you are lucky by a mental word or image. Become like a child they like you that way you will understand wy” Above all laugh about your self how silly you are in your “normal life” You will literally see them dancing of joy because they are many.
Ego death will happen if you have enough energy, and have learned to "let go" is a process be patient don't force it, you can’t any way.
Take special care of set, setting, intention and company. And be brave you are an explorer.
Love
Lobo


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Ego Loss even at small doses [Re: Lysergic_Milkman]
    #5698853 - 06/01/06 09:14 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

_______________________________________________________

The more you trip, the less sensitive your body becomes to the drug's effects, But also, the more you trip, the more you become aware of smaller changes in consciousness. This paradox is hard to describe, but I think that's what you're experiencing; the transition from the sensational trip to the exploratory trip (not to say that your trips weren't spiritual/exploratory before, they should just be more so now).

Losing one's ego is a difficult task for many, and seemingly natural for others. There really is no 'in-between' that I've seen. Either one extreme or the other.
There is no special trick to 'letting go', just treat it like you would any other problem. If one method doesn't work for you, find a different solution to the problem. Try looking at the problem from a different perspective.
for example, try just wording your goals differently. Instead of trying to 'let go', stop yourself from trying to 'keep control'. From that point of view, I believe the problem appears simpler (it is easier to lose than it is to gain). Next, identify what it is that gives you control, or the want of it.
1.) fear of death is an obvious reason to want control [believe it or not, this is one of the easier ones to get rid of (in my opinion)]. If you eliminate this, then there is less of a need for control. This is one of the first factors that I deal with, and it goes like this:
I never try to eliminate fear of death while sober, too hard. I always do this after dosing, either on the come-up or at the verge of the peak. I recite to myself, "Whatever happens, happens, and that's just what's going to happen. I can't change that, and I accept it." Once you've realized that you really have no control over what happens to you (a profound epiphany the first time it happens), then everything just seems to get better, like a huge weight lifted off of your chest. The "fuck it" attitude comes into play, and you will find yourself filled with bliss as the worries that inhibit your daily life dissolve in front of you (literally, sometimes).
(Note: the "fearless" mantra, as I call it, has also helped me out of several bad spots mid trip. Turned it around completely. Just remember that next time you start going down that black spiral)

2.) Fear of the unknown is another reason people want to keep control. Again, the 'fearless' mantra helps with this, but not always as much. Because the unknown is what it is, unknown, fear of it can spawn out of nothing. To keep it from coming back, one must either repeat their mantra constantly to keep themselves in the fearless state of mind, or keep it embedded in their souls. If you grasp and hold the idea of fearlessness firmly, then it will stick with you long enough for the ego to be killed.

3.) Fear of self is the big one, the one that stops many people dead in their tracks. It is impossible for the human mind to comprehend non-existence (just try and think about what it would be like if there were no universe), and if one is not careful for what becomes of one's self, then one must also not be fearful of wasting one's life, of living without experience. Such an attitude could only be in favor of non-existence. This is the part where the 'I' must go, the part where you struggle. This is where psychedelics come into play.
"So how do we go about getting rid of 'I'?" you ask. Technically, it cannot be destroyed, in part for the complicated reason stated above. Instead, we must "forget" about 'I'. One way to do this is to get so far away from 'I' that one cannot remember what 'I' is like, and must start consciousness over, without 'I'. In other words, you must shift your perspective to the point where 'I' becomes disconnected from 'me'. How you go about this is up to you, as I could not tell you how to forget about I exactly, but I can give you a hint:
You will know when your perspective has shifted enough when you are able to view 'I' objectively, when you are able to look at 'I' and analyze it without being "in 'I's shoes". When this occurs, then you know that you have disconnected 'I' from 'me'.
_______________________________________________________


This is sage advice. A wonderful read :heart:


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Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here


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InvisibleHank, FTW
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Re: Ego Loss even at small doses [Re: Asante]
    #5698938 - 06/01/06 09:53 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Take anything over 10 grams dried and I guarantee ego loss. There is nothing you can do to escape it with these doses imo. For me this is the case anyway.


--------------------
Capliberty:

"I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol
Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "

:rofl:


Edited by alpharedecho (06/01/06 09:53 AM)


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Ego Loss even at small doses [Re: Hank, FTW]
    #5699046 - 06/01/06 10:29 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Ah, but the trick is to be able to do it at low doses :smile:


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InvisibleFunkyLoFi
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Re: Ego Loss even at small doses [Re: Hank, FTW]
    #5699693 - 06/01/06 01:31 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

alpharedecho said:
Take anything over 10 grams dried and I guarantee ego loss. There is nothing you can do to escape it with these doses imo. For me this is the case anyway.




I have no interest in doses of this magnatude anymore. This is not something I want to force upon myself, but rather something I wish to achieve. I ate somewhere between 10 and 11 grams of cubensis once, the peak was....well to be honest I can't really remember very much of the peak at all. What I can tell you though is I managed to struggle the whole time and maintain a grip on this material world, even if it was only by a thread at times. Bascially, I don't need doses that big to get to the point where my ego wants to disappear and become part of the whole....I can get there on 2 grams.


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OfflineLOBO
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Re: Ego Loss even at small doses [Re: FunkyLoFi]
    #5703001 - 06/02/06 06:06 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I agree with you LoFiFunk, what’s the point of taking a huge dose where you become so dissociated, that you can not even remember the experience?
For what I have been reading from other post I think people have different definitions of what "ego loss" is.
For me Ego loss is experienced by usually by a feeling of dying were Lobo dissolves, were my worldly experiences are forgotten, and what I can only describe as my higher self, merges with the creator, I have no name no past, I just "am" (words fall short to describe it).
Don't confuse Ego loss with a state of "dissociation" that is something different. (at least in my book of definitions)


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InvisibleFunkyLoFi
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Re: Ego Loss even at small doses [Re: LOBO]
    #5703419 - 06/02/06 09:57 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

LOBO said:
I agree with you LoFiFunk, what’s the point of taking a huge dose where you become so dissociated, that you can not even remember the experience?
For what I have been reading from other post I think people have different definitions of what "ego loss" is.
For me Ego loss is experienced by usually by a feeling of dying were Lobo dissolves, were my worldly experiences are forgotten, and what I can only describe as my higher self, merges with the creator, I have no name no past, I just "am" (words fall short to describe it).
Don't confuse Ego loss with a state of "dissociation" that is something different. (at least in my book of definitions)




Thank you...I think we are on the same page.  :smile:


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Offlineloopin20
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Re: Ego Loss even at small doses [Re: FunkyLoFi]
    #5703430 - 06/02/06 10:00 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I think the dose required for ego loss is proportional to the amount of ego you start with.... Don't think there is a real formula for it, but I know when I started tripping I could take a helluva lotta shrooms and never come close to ego loss because my ego was nearly all that I knew. With age I came to let go of much of my ego, and smaller doses (1/4 to 1/2) could result in complete ego loss.


Edited by loopin20 (06/02/06 10:01 AM)


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Ego Loss even at small doses [Re: loopin20]
    #5703456 - 06/02/06 10:08 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Actually, it is proportional to the ease with which you give your ego up. You can have a strong ego, but if you are prepared to let go of it just like that only a little (or even sobriety) will suffice.


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Offlineloopin20
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Re: Ego Loss even at small doses [Re: Asante]
    #5703468 - 06/02/06 10:12 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah, true, but mose people that I know who have a strong ego aren't willing to easily let it go. .


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