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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


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2012 = not
#5694050 - 05/31/06 07:54 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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IMO there is no way that this global consciousness shift can happen. Veritas and I were discussing world conditions and basic human awareness. According to Maslow's hierarchy of needs, if the lower survival needs are not met it would be practically impossible for the individual to become aware of or value the development of higher/spiritual needs.
Much of the world is in dire straits to meet these lower needs. If you take an honest look at world conditions (and that includes this country) there are very few humans who are coming close to having their basic survival needs met.
This idea of a global consciousness shift beginning around 2012 is a totally elitist idea and has no substance as far as I can see.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero


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It doesn't matter to me... I died from the giant tsunami that happen last week when a comet fragment stuck the atlantic ocean. If you don't believe me, just ask the aliens that telepathically warned everybody to flee the coast. It happened, really. You can read all about it at www.savelivesinmay.com
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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niteowl
GrandPaw


Registered: 07/01/03
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Maybe it just marks the begining of the end of "this world order"
Maybe nothing will happen.
Maybe America pisses the whole world off and we nuke the planet into dust????
MaybeMaybeMaybe
My mom used to say "You can what if something to death"
Trying to predict the future is a waste of time.
I would bet that 2012 will come and go much like 2000 did
-------------------- Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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capliberty
Stranger


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Re: 2012 = not [Re: Seuss]
#5694075 - 05/31/06 08:08 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said: It doesn't matter to me... I died from the giant tsunami that happen last week when a comet fragment stuck the atlantic ocean. [/url]
Lol. Me to, so how are we talking, thats weird. The afterworld is exactly the same.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


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Re: 2012 = not [Re: Seuss]
#5694080 - 05/31/06 08:09 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Not living near the coast I handn't noticed that you had died. I am sorry to hear of your passing.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
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A lot can happen in 6 years.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs



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It's hard to concentrate on spiritual elevation when all of your effort is spent attempting to procure food and clean water.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


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Re: 2012 = not [Re: Redstorm]
#5694246 - 05/31/06 10:00 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Actually, the poor tend to be much more spiritually oriented than the rich. It's those who have too much that are going to have a more difficult transition.
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niteowl
GrandPaw


Registered: 07/01/03
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-------------------- Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


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Quote:
Silversoul said: A lot can happen in 6 years.
As far as human evolution goes either physical or emotional/spiritual that has never been true. What do you base your statement on besides wishful thinking?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
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are you in te same room as veritas but on differnt computers?
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
Silversoul said: A lot can happen in 6 years.
As far as human evolution goes either physical or emotional/spiritual that has never been true. What do you base your statement on besides wishful thinking?
The fact that poverty is not inevitable, and can be fixed(yes, even in 6 years, if we act now). The "shift in consciousness" may not happen overnight in 2012, but the stage may be set for that shift by that time.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


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Quote:
Silversoul said: Actually, the poor tend to be much more spiritually oriented than the rich. It's those who have too much that are going to have a more difficult transition.
I would dispute this. Most really poor are malnourished or diseased and do not have the mental capacity (you need nutrients to fuel brain function) to work on their spirituality. Much of the worlds poor are in a state of malnutrition. Survival until tomorrow is their path.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


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Quote:
Silversoul said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
Silversoul said: A lot can happen in 6 years.
As far as human evolution goes either physical or emotional/spiritual that has never been true. What do you base your statement on besides wishful thinking?
The fact that poverty is not inevitable, and can be fixed(yes, even in 6 years, if we act now). The "shift in consciousness" may not happen overnight in 2012, but the stage may be set for that shift by that time.
Poverty vanquished in six years. Again what do you base this unreal speculation on?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
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Quote:
Icelander said: Poverty vanquished in six years. Again what do you base this unreal speculation on?
My own diligent research.
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tallgreen
chillin like avillain

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Re: 2012 = not [Re: niteowl]
#5694340 - 05/31/06 10:25 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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2012 is predicted to be the end of old and beginning of new. It will not be a big boom, pow, shockwave that wakes everyone into enlightement or something. The changes have begun already, things will get really crazy starting next year 2007, mark my words. It will be like all things, gradual escalation and de-escalation. 2012 is just a marker.
But it's undeniable that humanity is somewhere it's never been. Technology and population have hit unprecedented levels and that's not going away. We are entering a new age, 2012 is supposed to be the year that the trasnformation from old to new is complete. But transformation is never complete, so this just marks a major shift, which to me, is clearly present already.
-------------------- Nothing you can know that isn't known. Nothing you can see that isn't shown. Nowhere you can be that isn't where you're meant to be. It's easy. All you need is love. - The Beatles
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Icelander
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The potential has always been there. The willingness never. You need to do some research on that. There is no evidence of any lessining of poverty since the big political and social movents around this in my lifetime. I heard exactly the same claims in the 70s. It's an eliteist idea that helps ones conscience take a break for having to be one of the haves, often at the expense of the have nots.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Silversoul
Rhizome


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Just so you know, I don't expect poverty to be vanquished within 6 years, simply because I don't expect that people will wake up soon enough. That shift in consciousness may actually be that necessary awakening among the developed world, where we realize our interconnectedness, and responsibility to the planet.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


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Quote:
Icelander said: The potential has always been there. The willingness never. You need to do some research on that. There is no evidence of any lessining of poverty since the big political and social movents around this in my lifetime. I heard exactly the same claims in the 70s. It's an eliteist idea that helps ones conscience take a break for having to be one of the haves, often at the expense of the have nots.
How is it elitist to point out that it is possible? I never said it was actually going to happen.
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tallgreen
chillin like avillain

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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
Silversoul said: Actually, the poor tend to be much more spiritually oriented than the rich. It's those who have too much that are going to have a more difficult transition.
I would dispute this. Most really poor are malnourished or diseased and do not have the mental capacity (you need nutrients to fuel brain function) to work on their spirituality. Much of the worlds poor are in a state of malnutrition. Survival until tomorrow is their path.
Spirituality has nothing to do with mental capacity, you are mislead about that. It is about being, not thinking or doing. This is implicit in all life and enlightenment is the acknowledgment of that. It's not about figuring anything out, thinking will always just be thinking.
-------------------- Nothing you can know that isn't known. Nothing you can see that isn't shown. Nowhere you can be that isn't where you're meant to be. It's easy. All you need is love. - The Beatles
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


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Quote:
Silversoul said:
Quote:
Icelander said: The potential has always been there. The willingness never. You need to do some research on that. There is no evidence of any lessining of poverty since the big political and social movents around this in my lifetime. I heard exactly the same claims in the 70s. It's an eliteist idea that helps ones conscience take a break for having to be one of the haves, often at the expense of the have nots.
How is it elitist to point out that it is possible? I never said it was actually going to happen.
Anything is possible. Ok I'll give you that. BUT!
I'm trying to take a logical look at the idea that 2012 is a big global consciousness change.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Silversoul
Rhizome


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Quote:
tallgreen said: Spirituality has nothing to do with mental capacity, you are mislead about that. It is about being, not thinking or doing. This is implicit in all life and enlightenment is the acknowledgment of that. It's not about figuring anything out, thinking will always just be thinking.
My thoughts exactly. Also I'd like to point some things out:
Jesus was poor.
Siddhartha renounced his riches in order to become enlightened.
Monks and nuns always take a vow of poverty.
Ghandi lived a simple, aescetic life.
The poor in the US are statistically more likely to be religious.
Poor countries tend to have more religious populations than wealthy countries.
The obstacle to spiritual development is not poverty, but materialism.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


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Quote:
Icelander said: Anything is possible. Ok I'll give you that. BUT!
I'm trying to take a logical look at the idea that 2012 is a big global consciousness change.
As I said in another post, it will take a shift in consciousness before people will do what is necessary to rescue the world from poverty and self-destruction. Maybe that is the shift in consciousness that will take place. The poor don't need the shift in consciousness. It's the privileged who do.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


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Quote:
tallgreen said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
Silversoul said: Actually, the poor tend to be much more spiritually oriented than the rich. It's those who have too much that are going to have a more difficult transition.
I would dispute this. Most really poor are malnourished or diseased and do not have the mental capacity (you need nutrients to fuel brain function) to work on their spirituality. Much of the worlds poor are in a state of malnutrition. Survival until tomorrow is their path.
Spirituality has nothing to do with mental capacity, you are mislead about that. It is about being, not thinking or doing. This is implicit in all life and enlightenment is the acknowledgment of that. It's not about figuring anything out, thinking will always just be thinking.
Tell that to a starving malnourished individual whose body does not function correctly.
We may all be ultimately spirit, (I'm not disputing that) but on this physical plane of experience the physical body needs to be a functioning unit for awareness of that spirituality and the ability to really act on it in a major way.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


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Quote:
Silversoul said:
Quote:
Icelander said: Anything is possible. Ok I'll give you that. BUT!
I'm trying to take a logical look at the idea that 2012 is a big global consciousness change.
As I said in another post, it will take a shift in consciousness before people will do what is necessary to rescue the world from poverty and self-destruction. Maybe that is the shift in consciousness that will take place. The poor don't need the shift in consciousness. It's the privileged who do.
That's a huge maybe with no evidence for it. That's what I'm looking at. Like I said I heard all of this (and a lot louder) in the 70s.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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tallgreen
chillin like avillain

Registered: 05/21/06
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"The poor don't need the shift in consciousness. It's the privileged who do."
Here here!!
-------------------- Nothing you can know that isn't known. Nothing you can see that isn't shown. Nowhere you can be that isn't where you're meant to be. It's easy. All you need is love. - The Beatles
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tallgreen
chillin like avillain

Registered: 05/21/06
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whoops, I think it's "hear hear". anyone know?
-------------------- Nothing you can know that isn't known. Nothing you can see that isn't shown. Nowhere you can be that isn't where you're meant to be. It's easy. All you need is love. - The Beatles
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


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There is no evidence that they are making it (the privilidged) any more than at any other time in history.
The error I believe is in individuals who surround themselves with a like minded social group and all read the same literature and then begin to believe that much of the world is thinking along the same lines. I've seen this over and over and have done it often enough myself.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
Edited by Icelander (05/31/06 10:46 AM)
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Silversoul
Rhizome


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The problem is people sitting around and waiting for this shift to happen. I, for one, plan to do my part to actively initiate this shift. And if everyone who looks forward to that shift will do the same, then we can make it a reality.
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tallgreen
chillin like avillain

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I think it will happen whether we want it or not. There is no "problem", it's inevitable, this is not something we are choosing, but rather have chosen. Some people will sit back and think it's bullshit, others will march in the streets. I for one will be meditating in the Himilayas. (leaving in september)
-------------------- Nothing you can know that isn't known. Nothing you can see that isn't shown. Nowhere you can be that isn't where you're meant to be. It's easy. All you need is love. - The Beatles
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Silversoul
Rhizome


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Quote:
tallgreen said: I think it will happen whether we want it or not.
It's that kind of thinking that will prevent it from happening. We need to play an active role in this.
"Be the change you wish to see in this world." -- Ghandi
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Icelander
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Here's my assessment of what happened in the 70s and my prediction of what will happen in 2012-2016.
The true believers who are invested in their beliefs will find that what they expected did not happen as planned and over the next few years will become disillusioned. At that point they will change tactics and say well that was a lot of youthful BS. I'm gonna take care of me and mine.
You might think my view is negative and without hope but that is not the case. I like to look life straight in the eye and use my logical abilities along with my spiritual leanings and say what's the best course of action for myself. That's living what I call the warriors way to the best of my ability. Good for me and good for everything IMO. I was a true believer in the 70s and I saw it all go down. I re-evaluated my stance (so I didn't have to give up and go for the almighty buck and safety net) I choose a spiritual path more suited to my true nature. So I'm not saying don't do what you're doing. I was just taking a look at it and seeing if anyone thought as I do.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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capliberty
Stranger


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----Spirituality has nothing to do with mental capacity, you are mislead about that. It is about being, not thinking or doing. This is implicit in all life and enlightenment is the acknowledgment of that. It's not about figuring anything out, thinking will always just be thinking.-----
This sounds good and is well articulated but I don't quit agree with it totally. Being aware is not implicit in all life, To me it goes hand in hand, you learn and then you become, you become and then your able to learn, do I just accept something on blind faith then I'm granted enlightenment, maybe on somethings but not all.
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tallgreen
chillin like avillain

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Silversoul: I don't agree. You need to be active maybe, maybe that is your path. It's not mine. There is no point in arguing about the future, we'll just wait and see. But I'm 100% sure a big change is coming and it doesn't require my activism.
Icelander: Respect. You are a warrior. You don't need to get caught up in BS. Stay strong and take care of your family.
capliberty: I did not mean being aware is implicit, just being, plants, bacteria, viruses, dirt, and rocks included. Being aware is a wonderful opportunity we have as humans. It thoroughly enhances the experience of existence, but it does not make it. Spirituality is about tuning into that existence that is independent of consciousness. Thought is mostly a distraction.
-------------------- Nothing you can know that isn't known. Nothing you can see that isn't shown. Nowhere you can be that isn't where you're meant to be. It's easy. All you need is love. - The Beatles
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


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But I'm 100% sure a big change is coming and it doesn't require my activism.
IMO to belive something 100% is closed minded and fear driven.
Unless you have some amazing evidence besides your hopes that you are willing to share.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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tallgreen
chillin like avillain

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not willing to share, cause it wouldn't seem amazing to you, it would just give you an opportunity to say I'm a hippy or something.
I'm not scared of anything. It's like saying you are 100% sure the sun will set tonight. Ok, maybe it won't but I'm not 99% I'm 100%, fear is not involved. It truly believe that the sun will set tonight, I don't see how that's close minded.
-------------------- Nothing you can know that isn't known. Nothing you can see that isn't shown. Nowhere you can be that isn't where you're meant to be. It's easy. All you need is love. - The Beatles
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
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There is a precedent for the sun setting: It has done the same every other night, so it is reasonable to assume it will do the same tonight. What precedent is there to believe that this massive shift in consciousness will occur?
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


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Quote:
tallgreen said: not willing to share, cause it wouldn't seem amazing to you, it would just give you an opportunity to say I'm a hippy or something.
I'm not scared of anything. It's like saying you are 100% sure the sun will set tonight. Ok, maybe it won't but I'm not 99% I'm 100%, fear is not involved. It truly believe that the sun will set tonight, I don't see how that's close minded.
It's closed minded IMO because we don't have the information to be 100% sure of anything. That's why people reach out to religion or political dogma, so they can be 100% sure they're right. And it is fear based at least in most cases IMO, because many people become invested egotistically and the ego cannot face being wrong.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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it stars saddam
Satan

Registered: 05/19/05
Posts: 15,571
Loc: Spahn Ranch
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Quote:
Silversoul said: The obstacle to spiritual development is not poverty, but materialism.
Not if you don't presuppose that spiritual development is a mystical endeavor. However, if you meant materialism in the sense of lusting after material possessions, then yes I suppose that would be detrimental.
There seems to be a lot of confusion over the meaning of "materialism" around here. My philosophy professors always used the term "physicalism" to describe the belief that there is nothing beyond the material world.
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tallgreen
chillin like avillain

Registered: 05/21/06
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
tallgreen said: not willing to share, cause it wouldn't seem amazing to you, it would just give you an opportunity to say I'm a hippy or something.
I'm not scared of anything. It's like saying you are 100% sure the sun will set tonight. Ok, maybe it won't but I'm not 99% I'm 100%, fear is not involved. It truly believe that the sun will set tonight, I don't see how that's close minded.
It's closed minded IMO because we don't have the information to be 100% sure of anything. That's why people reach out to religion or political dogma, so they can be 100% sure they're right. And it is fear based at least in most cases IMO, because many people become invested egotistically and the ego cannot face being wrong.
I see your point. I am definitely scared of being wrong. It's a daily battle with my ego. Admitting this is a victory over it. So I guess I'm not sure of anything 100%. The earth could stop spinning, I really don't know that it won't. So back to the topic. I guess I don't know what will happen. But if I had to wager..
-------------------- Nothing you can know that isn't known. Nothing you can see that isn't shown. Nowhere you can be that isn't where you're meant to be. It's easy. All you need is love. - The Beatles
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


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Quote:
tallgreen said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
tallgreen said: not willing to share, cause it wouldn't seem amazing to you, it would just give you an opportunity to say I'm a hippy or something.
I'm not scared of anything. It's like saying you are 100% sure the sun will set tonight. Ok, maybe it won't but I'm not 99% I'm 100%, fear is not involved. It truly believe that the sun will set tonight, I don't see how that's close minded.
It's closed minded IMO because we don't have the information to be 100% sure of anything. That's why people reach out to religion or political dogma, so they can be 100% sure they're right. And it is fear based at least in most cases IMO, because many people become invested egotistically and the ego cannot face being wrong.
I see your point. I am definitely scared of being wrong. It's a daily battle with my ego. Admitting this is a victory over it. So I guess I'm not sure of anything 100%. The earth could stop spinning, I really don't know that it won't. So back to the topic. I guess I don't know what will happen. But if I had to wager..
Admitting one doesn't know is a brave and true act IMO. It's brave because we are taught that to be ok we must know certain things.
Your best guess is up to you and you can use any method. I like to use intuition and experience. I hear something that feels "right" and because I want to choose a path I decide to believe it and explore it. But I never forget the other side of a coin. I could be totally wrong. This concept became clear to me from the Castaneda books. It's called "having to believe". It's very powerful but needs all it's component parts.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Silversoul
Rhizome


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Quote:
itstarssaddam said:
Quote:
Silversoul said: The obstacle to spiritual development is not poverty, but materialism.
Not if you don't presuppose that spiritual development is a mystical endeavor. However, if you meant materialism in the sense of lusting after material possessions, then yes I suppose that would be detrimental.
There seems to be a lot of confusion over the meaning of "materialism" around here. My philosophy professors always used the term "physicalism" to describe the belief that there is nothing beyond the material world.
I was referring to the latter definition of materialism, not the philosophical kind.
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
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A [nearly] global shift in consciousness happens about every hundred years. Pay more attention to the guerrilla mind theatre and stop concerning yourself with otherworldly expectations!
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


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It does?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger

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Yessir! Industrialization seems to have changed the consciousness of most of the world in the 20th century. The internet will probably be the primus impetus of consciouness change in the 21st century.
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MushmanTheManic
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The heliocentric model, once it was accepted, was a huge shift of consciousness, too.
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Icelander
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Yeah, I can see that kind of change. It's got nothing to do with 2012 or emotional evolution either.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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it stars saddam
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Age Of Enlightenment.
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Springs
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Icelander it seems like you are scared in not beilieving in something 100%
Believe 100% for everything, all is connected and real no? 2012 in my mind happens alot of times to alot of people, anyone  to me its just another metaphor trying to describe the act of breaking the veil, becomeing one with all.
Edited by Springs (05/31/06 03:47 PM)
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MushmanTheManic
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[Methinks] the "emotional level" of the average person in the 13th century is far below the average person nowadays (in the Occident.)
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Springs
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Quote:
icelander] I'm trying to take a logical look at the idea that 2012 is a big global consciousness change.
Logical look at consciousness  Whats your definition of logic? Would you not say a consciousness shit at any point would be a metaphyisical or spiritual act? Theres more than one road you know? Will it be different or the same?
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fireworks_god
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Quote:
Silversoul said: The obstacle to spiritual development is not poverty, but materialism.
The obstacle to spiritual development is religion. 
 Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Icelander
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Re: 2012 = not [Re: Springs]
#5695481 - 05/31/06 03:59 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Springs said: Icelander it seems like you are scared in not beilieving in something 100%
Believe 100% for everything, all is connected and real no? 2012 in my mind happens alot of times to alot of people, anyone  to me its just another metaphor trying to describe the act of breaking the veil, becomeing one with all.
Don't agree. It's non productive wishful thinking in my experience. Like I said this is the second time around for me.
But I could be totally wrong.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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fireworks_god
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Quote:
Icelander said: Icelander it seems like you are scared in not beilieving in something 100%
From my point of observation, anyone who has to commit themselves to believing in something in such an absolute, 100% manner is doing so out of fear.
The nature of reality and our perception of it is that absolutely nothing is certain. To accept something as otherwise is close-minded.
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Triplexiosis
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I don't know about the entire world, but most people i encounter have their basic survival needs met, and actually are allowing themselves to evolve emotionally. (then again, i'm anti-social at best, so i don't encounter that much people) I have no idea what will happen in 2012, but there's this feeling that something will and that it will take effort. Just not sure whether i should trust this feeling or not.
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"If there were no desire to heal, the damaged and broken met along this tedious path I've choosen here, I certainly would have walked away by now" Tool - Patient "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye." Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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OldWoodSpecter
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I think there is zero chance that humans will change by that time, in fact I don't think they will go to better at all. What' I'd do is let them do whatever they wan't, legalise everything, and wait for the society to fall down, then start over again.
I think this society can not be fixed, it can only be destroyed
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
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fireworks_god
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Quote:
Triplexiosis said: Just not sure whether i should trust this feeling or not.
Why should you? What basis does it have beyond that of a "feeling"? I mean, what observation have you made directly from reality as it presents itself to you that is suggestive and supportive of the fact that, specificially on 2012, some sort of evolution will occur?
The amusing thing is that everytime someone mentions something about 2012, a line of people will exclaim "Well, nothing is going to happen directly on 2012, but its a change that will start beforehand and will noticeable then", or something to the effect, and its like, "um, dude, change occurs all the time, and your associating its possibility with some arbitrary date doesn't lend any sort of evidence or substantiation to the fact that someone else has prophecized that something will occur on that date".
It is always amusing to encounter so many people on a spirituality forum who will grow positively feral when it comes to affirming that some future event will occur, when The tenant of spirituality is to immerse oneself within the present moment, the here and now. The past no longer exists, and is only referred to by an abstract recollection, and the future does not exist and is only imaginary.
Which would seem to suggest that perhaps everyone should shut the fuck up about 2012 and simply live one's life in the moment? Go on, hang me to the cross right this instant, because this is the only instant in which we live... 
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Springs
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
Springs said: Icelander it seems like you are scared in not beilieving in something 100%
Believe 100% for everything, all is connected and real no? 2012 in my mind happens alot of times to alot of people, anyone  to me its just another metaphor trying to describe the act of breaking the veil, becomeing one with all.
Don't agree. It's non productive wishful thinking in my experience. Like I said this is the second time around for me.
But I could be totally wrong.
Thats just it, im not talking about wishfull thinking it, what happens when you eat 10 grams of mushrooms?
Quote:
fireworks_god said:
Quote:
Icelander said: Icelander it seems like you are scared in not beilieving in something 100%
From my point of observation, anyone who has to commit themselves to believing in something in such an absolute, 100% manner is doing so out of fear.
What about without commitment? and without fear, 100% and 0% become indifferent, just pure light. Eh, sorry I know my responces are more suited for the other forum, I just dont see a difference so I dont make it one :p plus im procrastinating by being here and posting :P
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OldWoodSpecter
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Quote:
fireworks_god said:
Quote:
Silversoul said: The obstacle to spiritual development is not poverty, but materialism.
The obstacle to spiritual development is religion. 
 Peace.
There is no religion anymore. People don't obey the religious laws, nor read the religious texts. They go to churches, and like to say "god" a lot, but that's about it. How many religious people have you met in your life? I mean the ones that live and think like Jesus? I've seen none. So obviously, something that doesn't exist is not an obstacle to anything.
The obstacle to spiritual development is the fact that most people don't have a spirit to be developed. Can you expect a dog to have spiritual development? Nope, because dogs peak of spirituality is drinking from the toilet.
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
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Deviate
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Quote:
According to Maslow's hierarchy of needs
Maslow's hierchary of needs is not the be all end all description of human development, it's just one theory.
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fireworks_god
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Quote:
OldWoodSpecter said: I think there is zero chance that humans will change by that time, in fact I don't think they will go to better at all.
Exactly. Why focus within oneself in this moment and take the responsibility to initiate change when one can simply speculate over such change occuring for everyone in the future? Its easier, and lazy people who won't take that responsibility love easy. 
The future never comes, which is underscored by Seuss's post. Nothing left to do but make more baseless, bullshit predictions! 
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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OldWoodSpecter
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Re: 2012 = not [Re: Deviate]
#5695552 - 05/31/06 04:20 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Deviate said:
Quote:
According to Maslow's hierarchy of needs
Maslow's hierchary of needs is not the be all end all description of human development, it's just one theory.
yea, the easiest thing to sacrifise is food. I've been hungry many times in my life because I saved money for tools for self-actualisation and creativity. I think that piramid is a bunch of BS
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
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Triplexiosis
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Quote:
fireworks_god said:
Why should you? What basis does it have beyond that of a "feeling"? I mean, what observation have you made directly from reality as it presents itself to you that is suggestive and supportive of the fact that, specificially on 2012, some sort of evolution will occur?
I never mentioned an evolution will occur exactly in 2012, actually i even said that from my perspective lots of people are eolving emotionally (as in allready happening). As for my "feeling" that something will happen in 2012, i'm pretty sure it's just high hopes and dreams, but heck... hope never dies.
--------------------
"If there were no desire to heal, the damaged and broken met along this tedious path I've choosen here, I certainly would have walked away by now" Tool - Patient "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye." Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Deviate
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Quote:
fireworks_god said:
Quote:
Silversoul said: The obstacle to spiritual development is not poverty, but materialism.
The obstacle to spiritual development is religion. 
 Peace.
lets see some proof that buddhism has never helped someone develop spiritually. lets see proof that christianity has never influenced someones's developement postively. of course in many cases religion can and is an obstacle, just like a great many things. but to it is the main obstacle is baseless. why arent all atheists buddhas then?
Edited by Deviate (05/31/06 04:28 PM)
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OldWoodSpecter
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evolving emotionally? Into what?!
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
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Deviate
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Quote:
fireworks_god said:
Quote:
Icelander said: Icelander it seems like you are scared in not beilieving in something 100%
From my point of observation, anyone who has to commit themselves to believing in something in such an absolute, 100% manner is doing so out of fear.
The nature of reality and our perception of it is that absolutely nothing is certain. To accept something as otherwise is close-minded.
 Peace.
is it certain that nothing is certain? are you certain that someone believes something with certaintly is doing so out of fear? what is fear?
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Triplexiosis
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compassionate human beeing, what else?
--------------------
"If there were no desire to heal, the damaged and broken met along this tedious path I've choosen here, I certainly would have walked away by now" Tool - Patient "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye." Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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OldWoodSpecter
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Quote:
Triplexiosis said: compassionate human beeing, what else?
You actually see more compassion? Don't confuse liberalism and tolerance with compassion
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
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fireworks_god
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Re: 2012 = not [Re: Deviate]
#5695603 - 05/31/06 04:31 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Deviate said: this is ignorance at its finest.
How do you know what that statement is? That statement is vauge and practically undefined. 
Quote:
but that it is the main obstacle is baseless.
I never proposed that it was the main obstacle, and it was not implied.
I would suggest that you reflect upon your statement:
Quote:
of course in many cases religion can and is an obstacle, just like a great many things.
After doing so, consider my statement in comparison to Silversoul's statement to which it was a reply. Then observe any points that I might have expressed subtly and indirectly.
Truly, why would I say such a thing? 
 Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Deviate
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" I never proposed that it was the main obstacle, and it was not implied.
I would suggest that you reflect upon your statement: "
it was implied by the word "the".
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Triplexiosis
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yes I actually see more compassion. (either that or i'm completely dillusional which is possible)
--------------------
"If there were no desire to heal, the damaged and broken met along this tedious path I've choosen here, I certainly would have walked away by now" Tool - Patient "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye." Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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fireworks_god
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Re: 2012 = not [Re: Deviate]
#5695657 - 05/31/06 04:42 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Deviate said: it was implied by the word "the".
Taking into proper context, most notably, taking into consideration the quotation it was a reply to, it should be pretty obvious why the word "the" was used. Sometimes the design that is apparent within the world exists on multiple levels and is not always to be taken at face value. 
Do you get it now? 
 Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Icelander
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Re: 2012 = not [Re: Springs]
#5695668 - 05/31/06 04:46 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Thats just it, im not talking about wishfull thinking it, what happens when you eat 10 grams of mushrooms? 
What does that have to do with humanity at large? I'm really having a hard time seeing where you are going here. I'm not talking about a few individuals. I'm talking about global transformation of humanity in 2012. Come on.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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OldWoodSpecter
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ok, give me a couple of examples, maybe I'm the one who is being delusional
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
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Icelander
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Quote:
OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:
Deviate said:
Quote:
According to Maslow's hierarchy of needs
Maslow's hierchary of needs is not the be all end all description of human development, it's just one theory.
yea, the easiest thing to sacrifise is food.
I've been hungry many times in my life because I saved money for tools for self-actualisation and creativity. I think that piramid is a bunch of BS
Not when you're starving to death. I've been fasting for 8 days now and plan on 20. That has nothing to do with my basic needs or survival.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Springs
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Im talking about everyone aswell :P You keep looking at the differences not the connection. Being high on mushrooms and being high off of mushrooms difference? Sure some molecules in my noggin, but when you get high with out the molecules there is little difference. Unlimited, infinite, theres NO LIMITS
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Triplexiosis
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I could go on forever describing compassion of few individuals i encounter in my day to day life. but it's there allright, completely different people keeping (or tying to) an open mind, genuinely caring, not beeing afraid of showing acceptance, kindness, support and love. Heck... I'm a dreamer, and i'm probablly day-dreaming as writing this.
I'm not saying it's all milk and honey too...
Edited by Triplexiosis (05/31/06 05:03 PM)
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OldWoodSpecter
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Quote:
Icelander said: Not when you're starving to death. I've been fasting for 8 days now and plan on 20. That has nothing to do with my basic needs or survival.
Why are you fasting? Since when do you believe in abstinence and humility?
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
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Icelander
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Re: 2012 = not [Re: Springs]
#5695756 - 05/31/06 05:05 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Springs said: Im talking about everyone aswell :P You keep looking at the differences not the connection. Being high on mushrooms and being high off of mushrooms difference? Sure some molecules in my noggin, but when you get high with out the molecules there is little difference. Unlimited, infinite, theres NO LIMITS
I honestly have no idea what you are trying to say. Or how it relates to this thread. Sorry.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Springs
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maybe thats the point, you think 2012 is something its not, thats what im trying to say it doesnt relate. No need for sorry.
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Icelander
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Re: 2012 = not [Re: Springs]
#5695774 - 05/31/06 05:09 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Springs said: maybe thats the point, you think 2012 is something its not, thats what im trying to say it doesnt relate. No need for sorry.
I think everybody who believes in 2012, thinks it's something it's not.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Springs
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True
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MystikMushroom
I RULE YOU!
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Re: 2012 = not [Re: Springs]
#5695853 - 05/31/06 05:33 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Well, lets say somthing happends in 2012..but not the huge headlines on cable news kind of event...?
Perhaps brain-computer interfacing will finally take a giant leap forward that year, enabling entire virtual worlds and digital copies to be made of a human's consciousness. . .
At first glimpse this would seem like a natrual step in the current direction of modern science...I mean, at some point our computers will be limited by the rate of human input..mice and keyboard simply won't suffice.
This would forever change the human race, but it might take 100 years to actuall realize it was that day in 2012 that totally set humankind into a new frontier.
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Fospher
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Quote:
Icelander said: Anything is possible. Ok I'll give you that. BUT!
I'm trying to take a logical look at the idea that 2012 is a big global consciousness change.
Logic does not explain everything, my friend. And when you look at the metaphysical, you can go ahead and just throw it out of the window.
I'm agnostic towards 2012. If something paranormal does happen, then so be it. If not, I'm not going to hype myself or anyone up for an anticlimax.
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Icelander
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Re: 2012 = not [Re: Fospher]
#5695895 - 05/31/06 05:53 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Good attitude. I never said logic is everything but I think logic belongs somewhere in every equation.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Fospher
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There may be a formula for the universe, but God is void of an equation.
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Icelander
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Re: 2012 = not [Re: Fospher]
#5695953 - 05/31/06 06:08 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Fospher
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No, I do not mean that, I believe in Jesus Christ, the man and the message. However, I do subscribe to the belief that there is God in all of us, and it is a matter of reflection through meditation that can take us from finding the Kingdom of Heaven within.
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faslimy
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Re: 2012 = not [Re: Fospher]
#5696178 - 05/31/06 07:13 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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this threads needs a LOL
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it stars saddam
Satan

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Re: 2012 = not [Re: Fospher]
#5696182 - 05/31/06 07:15 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Fospher said: There may be a formula for the universe, but God is void of an equation.
How convenient!
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Icelander
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Re: 2012 = not [Re: Fospher]
#5696183 - 05/31/06 07:15 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Which man and which message. Every Christian seems to have a slightly different version.
Tao = source of all, including God.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Fospher
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What is convenient and for what use?
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it stars saddam
Satan

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Re: 2012 = not [Re: Fospher]
#5696286 - 05/31/06 07:36 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Christians never have to defend their beliefs as contingent non-existentials cannot be falsified. It's like having a trap door underneath the debate table.
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Fospher
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It's your own trap door leading only to the shackles of your own ego, not allowing you to accept anything that defies your almighty reason.
It's too bad you don't have any authority to say that this world is as it is you think so.
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Icelander
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Re: 2012 = not [Re: Fospher]
#5696893 - 05/31/06 09:38 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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It's too bad you don't have any authority to say that this world is as it is you think so.
No one has that athority.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Fospher
Crime FightingMaster Criminal


Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 2,033
Loc: The Netherlands
Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
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Exactly. And that means that none of us has proof that the world is any other way.
The only trap doors are the ones you put there yourself.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: 2012 = not [Re: Fospher]
#5696983 - 05/31/06 09:54 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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It all just is and our individual awareness and perceptions see it in so many differing ways.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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