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KidgardFromSRQ
Strange

Registered: 05/30/05
Posts: 1,501
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
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Xanthas said:
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KidgardFromSRQ said: explain how you think exsistence itself came to be. it can be comprehended, but there had to of been something which came from nothing. and that something which came from nothing, is god. where it all started.
There are two logical (depending upon your regarding of infinity as logical) possibilities. One is the uncaused cause, the other is infinite regress. I'll even point out to you where you can find loads more info yourself: http://www.google.com
I chose the uncaused cause. And I choose to believe that it stops at the universe, not any god that's never had any known contact with the universe other then its supposed “creation” of it.
I do so for a number of reasons.
First, it's simpler. It cuts out a step, an unknowable being, and a lot of heartache.
Second, “god” did a mediocre job. As just one example of many: This universe is going to die someday, and I don't like that thought. Hell, an oscillating universe would be better. Better then that would be a steady state model. Or at least cut out the second law of thermodynamics, it sucks.
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KidgardFromSRQ said: and to think that there is nothing above our physical realm of conciousness is ignorance.
To have a dead-set, rather absolutist idea of something that is unknowable strikes me as a most profound arrogance, and generally bad policy.
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KidgardFromSRQ said: the morals that we follow ultimatley though, all have the belief of god at base. and these morals were handed down by god to handed down from man by god. that's what you fail to see, the unlogical chance of that.
What you fail to see is my above post. What you also fail to see is the many philosophies that dealt with ethics with virtually no mention of god. I'll list a few of my favorites: Objectivism, Utilitarianism, and Kantism are all rather interesting.
What you also fail to see is that ethical systems fit perfectly if you consider humans within an evolutionary context as pack animals that developed higher cognitive functions, and the technology to make needless the killing of the next pack that yours may survive.
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KidgardFromSRQ said: you guys are right though, i am hung up on the idea of morality. but, we can't yet prove there is a god who handed these morals down to man. so its only logical to assume that these morals were created by man. but then again, when i see stuff like a code behind the bible being found which accuratley prophecises... it has to make you wonder.
No, it doesn't.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_code
i hear ya. and you bring up alot of good points. but what you fail to see is, all that is philosophy with out god came after belief in god(s). before there was athiesm, there was theism. wisdom begins at fear of god and ill prove it to you. ask me anything and you will see there other theists involved at one point before the belief of athiesm was there. that's what im arguing.
but what about the bible predicting end of days in it's actual text? do you dismiss that, and then there is a code behind it. see, there may be a code behind moby dick, but the belief of the bible code was/is that every letter in it is part of one code. so, until the code is cracked, i think it's impossible to have solid tangible proof of god. and i don't think moby dick follows one epic code. theres a definate pattern to the bible code, and every scholar has to admit this is a signifigant finding because with the definate codes it has prophecized things that have happened and will happen (supposedly).
-------------------- Be nice to people in general. Even if you don't like them.
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niteowl
GrandPaw


Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
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KidgardFromSRQ said: i hear ya. and you bring up alot of good points. but what you fail to see is, all that is philosophy with out god came after belief in god(s). before there was athiesm, there was theism.
There you go again, putting the cart before the horse. Before there was theism......there were agnostics. People who recognized the existence of a "higher conscious" but could not prove it to others or define it. Theism tried to define "God", and used fear of damnation, to gather money and power..
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but what about the bible predicting end of days in it's actual text? do you dismiss that, and then there is a code behind it. see, there may be a code behind moby dick, but the belief of the bible code was/is that every letter in it is part of one code.
If you look hard enuf, you will find these codes in every written text. Is this the work of an unknowable "god" or simple mathematics???
-------------------- Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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KidgardFromSRQ
Strange

Registered: 05/30/05
Posts: 1,501
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
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lol, you know what i just realized. our points will always stand. because how can we definatley tell if there were agnostics before athiests? let me ask you something though, beyond your logic: do you really think there is nothing more to life? have you not had encounters with the paranormal to which can only be explained by the theories of spirituality which are presented. guess we both kinda put the cart before the horse when you look at things with out proof. non the less, just because i was preassuming doesnt discredit what im saying.
-------------------- Be nice to people in general. Even if you don't like them.
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niteowl
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Registered: 07/01/03
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Yes, I do believe in a "higher conscious".
I tend to believe that this "god" is actually the spirit of the earth.
That consciousness has many different levels. Not just us then god.
-------------------- Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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KidgardFromSRQ
Strange

Registered: 05/30/05
Posts: 1,501
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
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mmm... im not sure about that one. but hey, if it works for you; i hope your right.
-------------------- Be nice to people in general. Even if you don't like them.
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niteowl
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Registered: 07/01/03
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There are 6-7 billion people on this planet, with 6-7 billion different views, on what god is, and what happens to you when you die.
I'm pretty sure none of us are right.
As long as we can live together in harmony.......it doesn't matter what religious views we have.
-------------------- Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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KidgardFromSRQ
Strange

Registered: 05/30/05
Posts: 1,501
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
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niteowl said: There are 6-7 billion people on this planet, with 6-7 billion different views, on what god is, and what happens to you when you die.
I'm pretty sure none of us are right.
As long as we can live together in harmony.......it doesn't matter what religious views we have.
that's true. and i think the first person who is truely wise and humble in every possible way is right. theres gotta be atleast one, and that's why I think none of us will ever know.
-------------------- Be nice to people in general. Even if you don't like them.
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