Home | Community | Message Board


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Original Sensible Seeds Feminized Cannabis Seeds

Jump to first unread post Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | Next >  [ show all ]
InvisibleVeritas
 User Gallery
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: ?? [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5691521 - 05/30/06 05:21 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Religious morality is not all about punishment and fear. It's about the premise that humans are not mere animals but have spirit, which works on compleatly different principles from animal flesh.

If there is no spirit, then we are flesh, and flesh acts as flesh feels like acting.
And human flesh has all kinds of feelings like urges to kill, to rape, to steal etc.
I've felt all of these urges. Yet, the reason I never considered any of it is because I believe my life has a purpuse higher than that which I give it myself, not because I fear punishment. Because I believe love is the driving force of my being, not survival.
And love does not exist as anything but a natural tool for survival within limits of atheism.




Why does love require the existence of God? Why does human spirit, and therefore spirituality, require the existence of a higher power?

Could human spirit be the highest power? Could love, in fact, be the immortal spiritual energy within each of us?

Why does eliminating the "God variable" from this equation suddenly make it equal to zero?

My best guess is that there is not a higher power. I do not rape, steal, kill, or sacrifice live chickens under the full moon. What is it within me which restrains all my wild animal impulses? God? The Bible? Desire to go to Heaven? Belief that I am more than an animal, 'cause God made me that way? No.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleVeritas
 User Gallery
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: ?? [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5691565 - 05/30/06 05:30 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Atheists are clever enough to stay out of prisons. They are usually intelligent, as far as I can see.
Intelligent enough to release themselfs from dogmas, but not intelligent enough to know that logic is futile without fuel (premises)




Yes, IQ score and religiosity do have a negative correlation, but this appears to be linked more to education level than innate intelligence.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblevampirism
Stranger
Male User Gallery

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 8,120
Re: ?? [Re: KidgardFromSRQ]
    #5691620 - 05/30/06 05:40 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Well, you know, most of modernity and modernism. Nothin much.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleVeritas
 User Gallery
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: ?? [Re: Xanthas]
    #5691638 - 05/30/06 05:45 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Xanthas said:
If atheists make up about 4% of the population, then if they are just as irrational/stupid as most of humanity, they should make up about 4% of the prison population.

However, atheists make up less then 1% of the prison population. This leads us to the natural conclusion that... (anyone?)




Statistically, atheists are highly educated and have a higher per-capita income than theists.  Educated, white-collar Americans are less likely to end up in State or Federal prison.

Women are vastly underrepresented in State (7%) and Federal (5%) prisons, as well.  These numbers are astonishing when you realize that roughly 51% of the U.S. population is comprised of women.  Does this mean that we are more ethical?  :grin:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
Re: ?? [Re: Veritas]
    #5691650 - 05/30/06 05:47 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

These numbers are astonishing when you realize that roughly 51% of the U.S. population is comprised of women. Does this mean that we are more ethical?

If relationship aggression was a crime, you'd see the statistics between male and female incarceration even out. Prwomise.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineKidgardFromSRQ
Strange

Registered: 05/30/05
Posts: 1,501
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
Re: ?? [Re: Veritas]
    #5691681 - 05/30/06 05:53 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

You are assuming that morals only come from "God"

God and religion were invented by man.
All religious dogma was invented by man.
So all morals come from man..........not God





Well, supposedly the morals to follow were told by god to man. Certain people were his disciples, and that's how the bible was written. But you see that as a crock of shit? Well, look at the prophecies and then bible codes and tell me there is not some divine coorelation behind it all.

Quote:

How exactly is the belief that God does not exist, or that the existence of God is unknowable, a belief about how to live or how to deal with a situation? What is the situation? That some people claim God exists?




our morals are "supposedly" appointed from man by god. If said hypothesis(theory even?) is true, that would mean if no one ever believed in god, we would have morale only measurable on a mutual level.

Quote:

You may wish to review Buddhism as an excellent example of an "atheist" philosophy which contains clear moral/ethical guidelines.




tell me about the history of buddhism. I know it came about when siddhartha (thats his name right?) was fasting for 56 days in meditation. But did he not have family or friends to influence what he believed. Were his family/friends influenced by a religion or anything? Was he just completley iscolated and realized this? Infact... wasnt he a prince or something of some dynasty?

I'll bet you ANYTHING he was somewhat influenced by outside morale/s. And that outside morale (of others) is what I have been talking about this whole entire time, theism. Morale and wisdom begin at fear of god.

Now, I'm not saying athiests CANT have morale, but once again. What constructive philosophy has come directly out of athiesm or agnostocism with out influence of something outside of athiesm or agnostocism?


--------------------
Be nice to people in general. Even if you don't like them.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleVeritas
 User Gallery
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: ?? [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5691683 - 05/30/06 05:53 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Relationship aggression? Hm...is a woman more likely to be killed or beaten by her male partner, or vice versa?
(85% vs. 15%)

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/ipv...20by%20partner'

Are you discussing emotional aggression? Vying for relational power?

(BTW, my original point was that women are NOT necessarily more ethical, simply because they are underrepresented in the prison population.)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
Re: ?? [Re: Veritas]
    #5691695 - 05/30/06 05:54 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Are you discussing emotional aggression?

Yes ma'am.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineKidgardFromSRQ
Strange

Registered: 05/30/05
Posts: 1,501
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
Re: ?? [Re: Veritas]
    #5691698 - 05/30/06 05:55 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
Quote:

Xanthas said:
If atheists make up about 4% of the population, then if they are just as irrational/stupid as most of humanity, they should make up about 4% of the prison population.

However, atheists make up less then 1% of the prison population. This leads us to the natural conclusion that... (anyone?)




Statistically, atheists are highly educated and have a higher per-capita income than theists.  Educated, white-collar Americans are less likely to end up in State or Federal prison.

Women are vastly underrepresented in State (7%) and Federal (5%) prisons, as well.  These numbers are astonishing when you realize that roughly 51% of the U.S. population is comprised of women.  Does this mean that we are more ethical?  :grin:




and in my experience, athiests lack a certain level of compassion and will to do good unless it was set in by others. and who set that in to the others?


--------------------
Be nice to people in general. Even if you don't like them.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineKidgardFromSRQ
Strange

Registered: 05/30/05
Posts: 1,501
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
Re: ?? [Re: KidgardFromSRQ]
    #5691706 - 05/30/06 05:56 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

let's take this one step at a time though. don't bring sex into it.


--------------------
Be nice to people in general. Even if you don't like them.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: ?? [Re: Veritas]
    #5691707 - 05/30/06 05:56 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Well, from what I've heard, cases of domestic abuse where a woman beats her husband are widely underreported, and in half the cases of domestic violence, the woman is the first to use physical force, even though it's the guy who usually goes to jail.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineTelepylus
Babyman
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 996
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
Re: ?? [Re: Veritas]
    #5691727 - 05/30/06 05:59 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
Relationship aggression? Hm...is a woman more likely to be killed or beaten by her male partner, or vice versa?
(85% vs. 15%)

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/ipv...20by%20partner'

Are you discussing emotional aggression? Vying for relational power?

(BTW, my original point was that women are NOT necessarily more ethical, simply because they are underrepresented in the prison population.)




ha.
typical response.

you need to understand the dynamism involved with domestic violence.
males and females tend to deal with anger and frustation differently.
men may get violent or yell.
women tend to run and shut down, fail to communicate.

both are equally guilty.

a woman who doesn't communicate opens up a valve within herself, which opens up the valves of all around her.
or a man that opens his valve and becomes violent, will open the valves of other men around him into violence as well.

just because a wife is quiet and soft spoken and her husband is physically or verbally abusive.
he isn't worse than her, even though statistics might say so.
hitting is a crime, shutting down and not communicating honestly should be a crime.
and if it was, statistics would show male and female are equally to blame in all domestic violence cases.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineKidgardFromSRQ
Strange

Registered: 05/30/05
Posts: 1,501
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
Re: ?? [Re: Silversoul]
    #5691735 - 05/30/06 06:00 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Buddha's real name is Siddartha Gautama. Siddartha means "every wish fulfilled." He was born in 563 B.C. in the small republic of Sakka, Southern Nepal. He was born to a ruler and later tradition saw him as the son of a king. His father's name was King Suddhodana, and his mother's name was Queen Maya. One week after Gautama was born, his mother died. It was said that he enjoyed life and was given the best possible education. He was showered with the luxuries of living. Gautama became overwhelmed with the conviction that his life was filled with suffering and unhappiness; therefore, he began to take interest in religious and philosophical thoughts. There were two things that may have caused his spiritual tendencies. One may have been the loss of his mother at birth and the other may have been the position of the weak Sakya kingdom which was about to be taken over by its powerful neighboring enemies.


--------------------
Be nice to people in general. Even if you don't like them.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleVeritas
 User Gallery
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: ?? [Re: Silversoul]
    #5691738 - 05/30/06 06:01 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Again, I was using that statistic to show that women are not necessarily more ethical, non-violent & all-around sweethearts just because they are underrepresented in prisons. (As are atheists).

As my statistics professor loved to say, correlation does not equal causation.

(Women are less likely to physically abuse and kill their partners, though. Some shoving may go unreported, but serious beatings and murder do not.)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleVeritas
 User Gallery
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: ?? [Re: Telepylus]
    #5691772 - 05/30/06 06:06 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Telepylus said:
Quote:

Veritas said:
Relationship aggression?  Hm...is a woman more likely to be killed or beaten by her male partner, or vice versa?
(85% vs. 15%)

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/ipv...20by%20partner'

Are you discussing emotional aggression? Vying for relational power?

(BTW, my original point was that women are NOT necessarily more ethical, simply because they are underrepresented in the prison population.)




ha.
typical response.

you need to understand the dynamism involved with domestic violence.
males and females tend to deal with anger and frustation differently.
men may get violent or yell.
women tend to run and shut down, fail to communicate.

both are equally guilty.

a woman who doesn't communicate opens up a valve within herself, which opens up the valves of all around her.
or a man that opens his valve and becomes violent, will open the valves of other men around him into violence as well.

just because a wife is quiet and soft spoken and her husband is physically or verbally abusive.
he isn't worse than her, even though statistics might say so.
hitting is a crime, shutting down and not communicating honestly should be a crime.
and if it was, statistics would show male and female are equally to blame in all domestic violence cases.




I don't think you actually read my post.  I was attempting to clarify whether he was referring to physical aggression or emotional aggression.  I also said, quite clearly, that I did not believe that women were more ethical than men, simply because they were underrepresented in prison.

I do not however, agree that dishonesty and failure to communicate should be punished by imprisonment.  (The prisons are overcrowded as it is! :eek:) Men and women are equally "guilty" of lying and hiding their true intentions from one another.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineTelepylus
Babyman
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 996
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
Re: ?? [Re: Veritas]
    #5691782 - 05/30/06 06:08 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

yea, i agree with you.
sorry my mistake, i should've read the whole thread before i got involved.


--------------------

Law of Love


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleVeritas
 User Gallery
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: ?? [Re: Telepylus]
    #5691791 - 05/30/06 06:10 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

S'Okay.  Many women are prone to man-bashing, I just don't happen to be one of them.  It is much more interesting to examine us all as humans, anyway. :grin:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
Re: ?? [Re: Veritas]
    #5691825 - 05/30/06 06:16 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Bah. I hope the both of you are exaggerating your actual stance on this.

Physical violence seems more destructive and harmful than social aggression or dishonesty. Turning social dishonesty or failure to communicate into an arrestable offense seems ludicrus. I can understand throwing a wife-beater in jail, but locking up a husband-liar-to? I tink itz a bit Xtreme.

Instead of throwing everyone in jail, maybe we should recognize that neither sex has a monopoly on "good relationship skills"?


Edited by MushmanTheManic (05/30/06 06:19 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineTelepylus
Babyman
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 996
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
Re: ?? [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5691846 - 05/30/06 06:22 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

the way i see things
the force of pain and suffering moves through the world
just like the force of joy and peace

violence, social agression, dishonesty, its all the same primordial energy- garmonbozia (pain and suffering)

when i spoke about the valves opening
all human beings have this valve

and no violence is not more destructive than greed or lust or dishonesty or anything else

it's all the same energy, and you either allow it flow through you, or you don't.
anger and rage and lies are all poisonous, and when we are honest with ourselves, none of us want that.

people can still be deeply disturbed and evil, yet never be violent-
they may cause others to be violent though. see how that works?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineXanthas
Blaspheme,blaspheyou, Blaspheverybody

Registered: 11/19/05
Posts: 267
Last seen: 16 years, 8 months
Re: ?? [Re: Xanthas]
    #5691847 - 05/30/06 06:22 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

IIRC, women are statistically more likely to attempt to physically harm their spouses, though males are more likely to injure their spouse.

As for the male/female dichotomy in prison populations, I propose a number of factors.

Females that I have seen are generally less physically aggressive. They express anger in entirely different ways.

Secondly, juries generally tend to go easier on females. Easy to find an example- If you see a male standing over an unconscious female body on the street, breathing hard, what's your gut-level reaction? Reverse the situation, and you get an entirely different reaction.

Thirdly, males are less average, on the whole, then females. They have more clusters on either end of the intelligence spectrum, and I'll wager on aggressiveness and emotional/mental stability as well.

(I do think this is getting a little off topic, though)

My point on intelligence, however, still stands. And education, FYI, does not increase intelligence, only knowledge. Both decrease the likelihood of going to jail, however. Even as such, what would cause atheists to be more highly educated then their theist counterparts? Or mayhap it's education that increases atheism? (Read the Wikipedia link, it details it better then I have.)


--------------------
If you don't ask the question, you always get it wrong.


Edited by Xanthas (05/30/06 06:25 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Original Sensible Seeds Feminized Cannabis Seeds


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Are humanists the new Flat Earth Society? Conservationist 963 15 03/15/09 07:24 AM
by Omegachrist
* Humanist Ideals and Determinism XUL 180 0 10/02/13 12:31 AM
by XUL
* influencing perception...propoganda TameMe 628 4 02/13/06 09:59 PM
by MushmanTheManic
* Stripping Away Outside Influences
( 1 2 all )
Veritas 2,694 31 04/16/07 06:29 PM
by leery11
* Who are your philosophical influences?
( 1 2 all )
Silversoul 2,562 21 04/19/10 05:02 PM
by BrainChemistry
* Influencing random numbers... Jared 2,695 18 03/22/03 04:18 AM
by xganon
* Catholic Influences on Mazatec Shamanism, and Taboo Questions
( 1 2 all )
zzripz 3,935 31 09/30/09 01:58 PM
by cyb3rtr0n
* zodiac influence felix 1,653 14 03/17/02 11:31 PM
by felix

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
2,792 topic views. 0 members, 9 guests and 9 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.031 seconds spending 0.01 seconds on 15 queries.