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InvisibleSinbad
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Trust In Women
    #5682681 - 05/28/06 06:59 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Almost every woman i have had relations with, throughout my life, has tried/has has managed to shatter my trust through lies, secrets and betrayl. Why shoudl i ever trust another woman again?

I dont think i can after yet another confirmation of how untrustworthy women i come into contact with are in general.


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Offlinefresh313
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Re: Trust In Women [Re: Sinbad] * 1
    #5682685 - 05/28/06 07:03 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

if you were a woman
youd be saying something to the same effect about men?


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Offlinemr_kite
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Re: Trust In Women [Re: fresh313] * 1
    #5682725 - 05/28/06 07:36 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Woman as a species vary considerably, exhibiting a wide variety of behaviours and personalities. You've just not met the right one yet mate.

When it happens, you'll know  :heartpump:


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let yourself be silently drawn by the stronger pull of what you really love


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Trust In Women [Re: mr_kite]
    #5682770 - 05/28/06 08:15 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

The problem is that recently i thought i had. But no, she turned out to be just like all the rest! :mad: :frown:


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Trust In Women [Re: mr_kite]
    #5682783 - 05/28/06 08:20 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

trust in your sense, buddha, dharma, sangha.
where is it written to trust in women or men.
enjoy others for what they are.
not for what you imagine you are to them.

your senses give direct access to buddha dharma and sangha, here and now. only that to trust.


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Trust In Women [Re: fresh313] * 1
    #5682800 - 05/28/06 08:31 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

fresh313 said:
if you were a woman
youd be saying something to the same effect about men?




This comment is right on! It's humans in general that behave like this. To single out one sex is to show your attachment to a situation that provokes you. (I'm not sayng this is bad or weak or wrong.)

If you didn't feel like this person owed you a certain type of behavior you would take this all in stride. It's very difficult though as IMO we have been deeply programmed to believe that romantic love is of grave importance to our welbeing. :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (05/28/06 08:43 AM)


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Trust In Women [Re: redgreenvines]
    #5682809 - 05/28/06 08:38 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
trust in your sense, buddha, dharma, sangha.
where is it written to trust in women or men.
enjoy others for what they are.
not for what you imagine you are to them.

your senses give direct access to buddha dharma and sangha, here and now. only that to trust.




Problem is, this woman is part of the Sangha! This is why the situation im in at the moment is so sensitive and diffcult. Thanks for the adive tho anyways.


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Trust In Women [Re: Icelander]
    #5682813 - 05/28/06 08:44 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Well, the thing is Icelander, for me, as a hetrosexual male, women are generally the only beings who can break trust of the heart. I didnt have  a very romantic relationship with this woman, but i love her deeply and trusted her not to break the trust i gave her. But she did it anyway, and now its a very difficult and sensitive situation becuase of the circumstances and the close connection we have. Everytime we see each other now it is like instant conflict.

How do i solve this problem? I cannot ignore her or not see her becuase she lives in the same very small little town, plus she is part of the Sangha, so there is that connection as well. I just dont really know what to do anymore. I have never been very good with relations with women. I was probably a monk in my last life or something. :lol:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Trust In Women [Re: Sinbad]
    #5682818 - 05/28/06 08:50 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

You will solve this problem within yourself because that's where the problem resides. She is your teacher for this work or in my world your "petty tyrant". Fact is that we need them soooo much. :grin: :heart:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleBrainiac
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Re: Trust In Women [Re: Icelander]
    #5682834 - 05/28/06 08:59 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

u can't tust a whore


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:Awesketch:

:cool: Fair is Fair :devil:


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InvisibleLakefingers

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Re: Trust In Women [Re: Sinbad]
    #5682840 - 05/28/06 09:03 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Are you looking for a security blanket from women?

P.S. I think redgreenvines and Icelander have said valuable things for you, as you know.

I'm not sure how pedagogical it is to bring this up now (maybe at this point in your development you need to see these girls, thus all girls, as the bad guys). Hopefully the time is right:

the problem is you, your expectations and your lack of tactility in providing and maintaing trust. Yes, the girls might have done particular things that were wrong (I'm not saying these girls did anything wrong though, from what you've told us you could be the one that screwed up. It could be you that is unable, at this time and in relation to particulars, to take responsibility for your actions. This is my beef with most men -- the denial and projection). In the sense that you are the problem: it's a matter of keeping balance, don't give the impresison that you can give others trust if your trust looses its balance when the winds of personal wrong knock it over.
So, think about yourself and what you did, don't resent the girls. Move on respectfully, or show us that you really love each other.
Good luck--


Edited by Lakefingers (05/28/06 09:17 AM)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Trust In Women [Re: Sinbad]
    #5682853 - 05/28/06 09:09 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Sinbad said:
Quote:

redgreenvines said:
trust in your sense, buddha, dharma, sangha.....




Problem is, this woman is part of the Sangha! ....




this is where you are looking at the wrong sangha.
the sangha to take refuge in, is internal, the universal idea of all like minded beings - it includes everyone.
the buddha to take refuge in is internal, the principle of englightenment within.
the dhamma to take refuge in is internal, the process of mind the teacher that is learning.

the group of buddhists that hang around you are only people, and you need to relate with them as people and let yourself be people too.

enjoy them as they are, and give yourself a break too.

never use dharma talk as politics or worse
as spiritual political sexual seduction.
unless it's a joke of course.
like seeing the light at the end of the tunnel.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Trust In Women [Re: Sinbad]
    #5682936 - 05/28/06 09:41 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

"Almost every woman i have had relations with, throughout my life, has tried/has has managed to shatter my trust through lies, secrets and betrayl. Why shoudl i ever trust another woman again?"

Quit putting women up on a trust pedestal and you won't have these problems. 

With your Buddha lady "friend", you have given your love and trust way before it was "time".  ANow you are unhappy and in conflict.  Worse, you never even made it to first base, so a good "make up fuck" is out of the question.  :tongue:

A big part of the problem in communicating and interacting with women is that it really is a fact that men and women think and behave differently.  Unless a man comes to grips with that, and alters their way of thinking, emoting, and interacting that man will have problems.  Most women won't change their way of thinking just as most men won't because it is hard wired in their brains.

So, I say to you quit trusting, quit thinking, and above all quit analyzing the situation.  She isn't worth that much attention anyway.  Plus, as soon as you stop paying attention to her she will give you her undivided attention. 

Fun and games... :grin:


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Anxiety is what you make it.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Trust In Women [Re: Sinbad]
    #5682969 - 05/28/06 09:55 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Have you considered the possibility that you are selecting women who will teach you about your attachments to others behavior?

In my experience, the people we are most drawn to are those who will participate in our most important lessons.  Only when those lessons have been understood can we cease engaging in relationships which bring up the same material.

I agree with rgv that your sangha is within.  Your wise self continues to seek out untrustworthy women for your life lessons, allowing you to fall over and over again. (Picture Lucy and Charlie Brown playing football. :wink:)

Humans are fallible, and I have not met anyone who is 100% honest at all times, so anyone you meet may pull that football away under the right conditions.  The aim is not to find the perfect person, but to find love and balance within, then share what you have found with the imperfect beings who show up.  :grin:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Trust In Women [Re: Veritas]
    #5683052 - 05/28/06 10:38 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Truly insightful post. :thumbup:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Trust In Women [Re: Veritas]
    #5683063 - 05/28/06 10:43 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Hey babe, You're my big lesson. :heart: :heart: :heart: :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: Trust In Women [Re: Icelander]
    #5683120 - 05/28/06 11:16 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
You will solve this problem within yourself because that's where the problem resides. She is your teacher for this work or in my world your "petty tyrant". Fact is that we need them soooo much. :grin: :heart:




the problem resides in both the self AND the selves of others.  That is why its so hard to solve. 

and nobody NEEDS a woman.  Tibetan monks often go entire lifetimes without female companionship. 

Icelander = :whip:

To the original poster:  Have faith and respect women.  It might be awhile till you find the one for you, but the best advice I can give you is to just throw yourself out there and be prepared to deal with any outcome.  Eventually you will find someone so perfect that you will be inseparable and worthy of eachother's trust. 

many people have accused me of disrespecting women.  but the truth is I respect women enough to let them do whatever they want.  And I have faith that I will find one that is right for me eventually. 

remember that freedom is a very new thing to women.  Its not totally their fault that they often don't use their freedom to make wise choices.  As men, we must be gentle stewards who show women the way of responsibility and freedom.  Sometimes this means letting them walk on your heart a little.  But hey, you're a man, you can take it.  And don't think she won't pay (karmicly speaking) for the evil things she has done.


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OfflineSDP
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Re: Trust In Women [Re: DoctorJ]
    #5683297 - 05/28/06 12:32 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

What now is the noble truth of suffering? Birth, decay, death, sorrow, lamenations, pain, grief, despair, not to get what one desires, all suffering; in short, the five groups of existance are suffering.

What now is the noble truth of the orgin of suffering? It is craving. Delightful and pleasureable things, eye, ear, nose, tongue, body, and mind, there this craving arises and takes root. Visual objects, sounds, smells, tastes, bodily impressions, and mind objects are delightful and pleasurable; there this craving arises and takes root. Conciousness, sense impression, feeling born of sense impression, perception, will, craving, thinking, and reflection are delightful and pleasureable; there this craving arises and takes root.

What now is the Noble Truth of Extinction of Suffering? The complete fading away and exitnction of suffering, its forsaking and abandonment, liberation and detachment from it. Extinction of greed, hate, and delusion. This, indeed, is called Nirvana.

And for a disciple thus freed, in whose heart dwells peace, there is nothing to be added to what has been done, and nuaght more remains to do. Just as a rock of one solid mass remains unshaken by the wind, even so neither forms, nor sounds, not odors, nor tastes, nor contacts of any kind, neither the desired nor undesired can cause such a one to waver, one is steadfast in mind, gained in deliverance.

This I call neither arising, nor passing away, neither standing still , nor being born, nor dying. There is neither foothold, nor development, nor any basis. This is the end of suffering.

Once suffering is abbolished, folowing the Middle Path (Right understanding, right thought, right speech, right action, right livihood, right effort, right minfulness, right concentration). You can reamin detached  + involved, while still being a good person + influencing others positively.

In otherwords. BECOME the monk in this life. Girls = attachment. Attachment = suffering. Suffering = death\rebirth\death.

Liberate yourself.  :rocket:

-SDP  :stoned:


--------------------
Teonanacatl, open up my eyes
This sacrament, this prayer, beyond the world of lies
Guide me clearly through that which I dont understand
Give me strength to find the path
Help me fight any demons as you flow through me wholely
This is my prayer, that you protect me from evil, and bring me closer to peace
And open up my eyes, so i can see things as you do
Amen


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Trust In Women [Re: SDP]
    #5683316 - 05/28/06 12:39 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Girls = attachment.

Nonsense!


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Trust In Women [Re: SDP]
    #5683333 - 05/28/06 12:46 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

A winter's day
In a deep and dark December;
I am alone,
Gazing from my window to the streets below
On a freshly fallen silent shroud of snow.
I am a rock,
I am an island.

I've built walls,
A fortress deep and mighty,
That none may penetrate.
I have no need of friendship; friendship causes pain.
It's laughter and it's loving I disdain.
I am a rock,
I am an island.

Don't talk of love,
Well, I've heard the word before.
It's sleeping in my memory.
I won't disturb the slumber of feelings that have died.
If I never loved I never would have cried.
I am a rock,
I am an island.

I have my books
And my poetry to protect me;
I am shielded in my armor,
Hiding in my room, safe within my womb.
I touch no one and no one touches me.
I am a rock,
I am an island.

And a rock feels no pain;
And an island never cries.

-SNG


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Trust In Women [Re: Sinbad]
    #5683339 - 05/28/06 12:50 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Perhaps, just perhaps, the problem lies within you. It is more likely the dynamics at work in you that attract certain types of women to you and also which cause you to be attracted to certain women. It is most unlikely that women qua women are at fault. How do I know this? Much more from personal experience - me turning 53 in July - I've been around and have discovered much about how my inner deficits contributed to being in relationships with the wrong women.

My last wife was a nightmare as it turned out, but my own weakened self-esteem, my refusal to experience anger, my mistaken idea that being passive was ego-transcendence instead of what it was - co-dependence, all attracted a Borderline Personality Disordered manipulative, cold-hearted, damaged woman to me.

The girl who came onto me and then visited me in my dorm room late that night eventually slept with my roommate of 3 years, ostensibly to make me jealous, thinking that act would make me pursue her more avidly. In 2001 that same female was exiled from the state of Colorado to Texas. Called "The Heidi Fleiss of Aspen," she had gone from slut to prostitute to running one of the nations largest prostitution rings which used underage girls! This was the first girl I fell in love with! It took years to get her out of my mind after I broke up with her and I continued to dream about her for some 15 years!

Now, thank God, I have a really decent, beautiful, moral, educated Lady by my side (for 10 years now). She phoned and asked me out, which I never would have done because I was still looking for another 'wrong' type of woman (there were others I assure you) - usually blonde (bottle usually) like my ex-wife. I had to have my preconceptions and addictions to form broken by someone who appreciated me for me, and who also had to break her preconceptions about what kind of man she was looking for. So here's a pic of Rose. Not a blonde, but I'm not complaining. Rose went to Cornell University instead of Princeton or University of Pennsylvania (got into all three). She also took an MBA at one of my schools - University of Maryland. She a trooper at tripping and engages me in all the kinds of things that I engage you Shroomerites with in conversation. I find her sort of attractive  :wink: too.

"Seek and ye shall find; ask and it will be given thee." Word.

Peace, Love and Truth.



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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Trust In Women [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5683480 - 05/28/06 02:05 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Great post Markos. :thumbup: And thanks for sharing the details of your experience.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Trust In Women [Re: Icelander]
    #5683787 - 05/28/06 04:27 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Thank you everyone for your posts. This has been a most testing time in my life, so its always nice to know that people care.

A special thanks goes out to Markos for sharing your experience.

I think that perhaps i do attract the kind of woman who is passive, as i am quite an outspoken and active person, and the balance i seek in a partner is defineilty always something more passive. Maybe in looking for passive women, i always seem to encounter women with hidden issues and commitment problems. This time i was the rebound man by the looks of things. it always hurts when you discover something like this after a long drawn out breakup.

So how do i now attempt to change the type of women i usually fall for?. If you think that i am choosing the kinds of women who will hurt me so i can learn something. What could that lesson possibly be?

I feel right now that the only thing ive really learned from all this, is not to place my trust in women, becuase even if they have no intention to, they still always break my trust, and my heart eventually.


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Edited by Sinbad (05/29/06 08:17 AM)


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Trust In Women [Re: Sinbad]
    #5683803 - 05/28/06 04:35 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I think men are as likely to betray one's trust as women are. However, I think it is because of one's sexual and/or romantic feelings towards women that it hurts more when they betray one's trust. At least, that is my experience.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Trust In Women [Re: Sinbad]
    #5683858 - 05/28/06 04:55 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

So how do i now attempt to change the type of women i usually fall for?




A concept I particularly like is that of affinity.  Merriam Webster defines this as "an attractive force between substances or particles that causes them to enter into and remain in chemical combination." (Among other less-applicable definitions.)

To change your attractions, you must alter your attractive force.  At this point, you are attractive to and attracted by women who betray your trust.  They do not represent all women, but the sub-set of women with whom you experience affinity.

I believe that this attractive force is created by the ways in which we manage our life energy.  If your energy in certain aspects of living is blocked or constricted, you will drawn in those who bring your attention to these aspects.  Just as our physical immune system seeks to restore health to our body, our spiritual immune system seeks to restore health to our spirit.

It is no accident that all of the women to whom you feel attracted share common traits.  They are exactly what you need to experience, and will continue to show up until you no longer need them.

My experience with changing attraction patterns has shown me that prolonged celibacy and relational seclusion allows for necessary introspection and slow internal shifting.

I spent several years alone while I examined my mental programs and chemical reactions.  I reviewed the patterns which were shared by my prior relationships, and integrated the lessons contained therein.

This process allowed me to reach a point of emotional equilibrium. For the first time in decades, I truly enjoyed my life without a partner.  I did not need to reject the possibility of relationship, but I knew that being alone was vastly preferable to the relationships I had been having. 

I regained the intuitive sense that nothing could harm me, not the part which was really me, and that the so-called heartbreaks I had experienced were the temper tantrums of my personality structure.

I wish you the best in your healing, dear one.  :heart:


Edited by Veritas (05/28/06 05:17 PM)


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Invisiblemoog
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Re: Trust In Women [Re: Veritas]
    #5683900 - 05/28/06 05:09 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I've found that if you just act like yourself you'll always attract the kind of mate you're looking for, looks-wise and personality-wise. If either you aren't being true to yourself, or the girls you're going after aren't being true to themselves, then the attraction isn't a true attraction, because one of you is attracted to a fake personality. This will inevitably result in conflict and hurt.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Trust In Women [Re: Sinbad]
    #5683924 - 05/28/06 05:18 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Sinbad said:
...So how do i now attempt to change the type of women i usually fall for? (as falling in love with unstable women seems to be a reoccuring theme for me). If you think that i am choosing unstable women so i can learn something. What could that lesson possibly be?
...




sometimes for a guy, it's one's mother
is who one seeks closure with - esp.
when there is unfinished business.

after you untie some knots there
you can move on and see people for whomethey are on equal terms.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Trust In Women [Re: redgreenvines]
    #5683944 - 05/28/06 05:24 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

How Freudian of you, red. :wink:

Freud was into energy work, too.  He called it libido, but it could also be called prana, chi, life force, etc...  When your energy gets stuck, or "cathected," on some hurtful event in your past, you have less life energy in the present.

Maybe we love (and hate) those who remind us of these stuck places because we want our energy to be freed, yet also want everything to remain familiar and safe.  The trick is to stop shooting the messenger, and finally get the message.  :heart:


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Trust In Women *DELETED* [Re: Veritas]
    #5683967 - 05/28/06 05:32 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Post deleted by redgreenvines

Reason for deletion: inappropriate for reasons of privacy sorry.



--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Trust In Women [Re: Sinbad]
    #5683986 - 05/28/06 05:37 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

unstable women so i can learn something. What could that lesson possibly be?

I like what Veritas has said on this. I would add only that the lesson is also one of attachment and self love.

You are a fast learner Sinbad but relationships are one of the big ones and maybe one of the last ones we work through. Could be because they are similar to our first ones. (Mater and Pater) Any unresolved issues with them will find there way into our most intimate relationships to others.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Trust In Women [Re: redgreenvines]
    #5684002 - 05/28/06 05:40 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Excellent memory, red.  That post was before my time.

Yes, familial trauma hooks our life energy like nothing else. :sad:

Additionally, we learn what love feels like from our first love, for better or worse, and may seek that variety of love for the rest of our life.  When that first love is shared with someone unstable & incapable of returning love, we are being taught that love is about uncertainty and rejection.  I know I learned those lessons, and spent many years unlearning them.


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Re: Trust In Women [Re: Sinbad]
    #5684034 - 05/28/06 05:48 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

It seems to me that as soon as you start expecting something from someone, they will let you down. If I start expecting certain behaviors from my husband, or he of me, we start to experience friction and unhappiness.

So instead, we let one another be as free as possible within the experience of our cooperative effort. We don't just "expect" things from one another...we try and act from a state of love, service and joy.

Maybe you should stop expecting things from the women you are involved with. Like, from your posts it seems like you expect them to behave a certain way just because you "gave them your trust." I don't think it works like that (evidently). You can trust and love people without expecting anything in return.

Personally, I've noticed that when I expect nothing from people, I am a lot happier.


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Re: Trust In Women [Re: Sinbad]
    #5684063 - 05/28/06 05:53 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Sinbad said:
Almost every woman i have had relations with, throughout my life, has tried/has has managed to shatter my trust through lies, secrets and betrayl. Why shoudl i ever trust another woman again?

I dont think i can after yet another confirmation of how untrustworthy women i come into contact with are in general.




There is a lot of truth in those statements. I ahve nothing more to say about it except don't give up just don't let your guard down.


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Re: Trust In Women [Re: gregorio]
    #5684077 - 05/28/06 05:56 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I think the fact that one is "guarding" in the first place and striving to acheive is going to prevent any real relationship from being shared.

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
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Loving every breath of you

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Re: Trust In Women [Re: Veritas]
    #5684109 - 05/28/06 06:05 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Its not even as if i go out and look for women. I have never even been out on an official "date" in my life,as i always just kind of slip into relationships. Its like these women just discover me and there is a connection, and gradually something develops, but only later do i find out how much baggage they are carrying and by that time its too late. With my last girlfreind (we broke up last week), i made sure before hand that she had no personal "history" and even probed her family tree for instances of mental illness.

After that i thought i might have somehow broken the chain, and was elated at the possibility of a relationship with someone who was not going to flip the tables on me, and for a long time, it was very good, and everything went amazingly well.

I fell in love with her, and trusted that she felt the same (as she said she did). We made a commitment to work through our personal issues together (as i have my fair share of neurosis too :wink:).

Needless to say it ended disasterously, and now im picking up the pecies of my broken heart, yet again. This time it was so sudden and unexpected that the shock had me in a state of denial for days afterwards.  :sad:

Its certainly something karmic. Perhaps i screwed around alot of girls in my past life, and this is just the karmic payback  :crazy:

Thanks for that post Veritas i certainly think that some of what you said is defineltely true.


Edited by Sinbad (05/29/06 08:16 AM)


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Re: Trust In Women [Re: MOTH]
    #5684123 - 05/28/06 06:07 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

EllemyshShade said:
It seems to me that as soon as you start expecting something from someone, they will let you down.  If I start expecting certain behaviors from my husband, or he of me, we start to experience friction and unhappiness. 

So instead, we let one another be as free as possible within the experience of our cooperative effort.  We don't just "expect" things from one another...we try and act from a state of love, service and joy. 

Maybe you should stop expecting things from the women you are involved with.  Like, from your posts it seems like you expect them to behave a certain way just because you "gave them your trust."  I don't think it works like that (evidently).  You can trust and love people without expecting anything in return. 

Personally, I've noticed that when I expect nothing from people, I am a lot happier.




This is very true! Thank you  :thumbup:


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Re: Trust In Women [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5684131 - 05/28/06 06:08 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Many people have a hard time coming to realize, we are nothing more than animals with more going on for us psychologically. No matter how we try to play it off, we will still have the hardwired instincts as any other mammal. You can't trust anyone given specific circumstances anyone can stab you in the back. Don't trust them. Or anyone for that matter.

Psychology preaches that every human/animal acts on whatever meets their next basic need. There is no such thing as love, caring or any of those feel good/comfort teachings. You might have to look deep inside yourself to see the truth but for those with an open mind, it is there, no matter how hard it is to accept. We all wish life had more to it than this, but as humans we are no better than a virus in this world, consuming natural resources until this world is nothing more than dead matter.

Sorry for the rant but just speaking what comes to mind. Truth is all you have is your family while you live here.

Use em an lose em... or just let it happen to you


--------------------
- grimR


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
http://egolost.com 
"I am already given to the power that rules my fate. And I cling to nothing, so I will have nothing to defend. I have no thoughts, so I will see. I fear nothing, so I will remember myself."

- Don Juan teachings


Edited by grimR (05/28/06 06:12 PM)


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Re: Trust In Women [Re: Sinbad]
    #5684174 - 05/28/06 06:17 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Maybe you need to try guys for awhile. I'll send you my address. :wink:

Please send naked photo.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (05/28/06 06:17 PM)


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Trust In Women [Re: Icelander]
    #5684190 - 05/28/06 06:23 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Id rather become a monk than join the dark side of the force!  :shocked: :starwars: :lol: :thumbdown:


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Re: Trust In Women [Re: Sinbad]
    #5684223 - 05/28/06 06:30 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I have to admit though. I probably am rather more unstable than my ex right now. But only now, do i realize just how much this has all affected me. i really gave everything to this relationship and shared everything with her. Now i am paying the price for that.  :sad:

I have alot of healing to do before i can move on from this. I forgive her though, and i still love her deeply. :heart:


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Re: Trust In Women [Re: Sinbad]
    #5684254 - 05/28/06 06:37 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

i really gave everything to this relationship and shared everything with her. Now i am paying the price for that.




This is a sign that you gave too much.  When we give what we can afford, and only as much as we can afford, we do not pay a price later.  But when we give on credit, we always get billed with interest. :tongue:

Sometimes relating to others from within healthy boundaries can feel selfish or miserly, when we compare it to our old "giving" ways.  The guilt rises, demanding outrageous sums as "proof" of our love.  My method for dealing with this is to gently ask myself what I can give without expectation of return.  This is what I can afford.


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Re: Trust In Women [Re: Sinbad]
    #5684258 - 05/28/06 06:38 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Sinbad said:
Id rather become a monk than join the dark side of the force!  :shocked: :starwars: :lol: :thumbdown:




Damn!

Humor is good for your condition.  :rofl2: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rofl2: :rofl2: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rofl2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
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Re: Trust In Women [Re: grimR]
    #5684273 - 05/28/06 06:45 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Psychology preaches that every human/animal acts on whatever meets their next basic need. There is no such thing as love, caring or any of those feel good/comfort teachings.




My studies in psychology have revealed no such doctrine. Perhaps you meant biology?


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Re: Trust In Women [Re: grimR]
    #5684274 - 05/28/06 06:45 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

grimR said:
Many people have a hard time coming to realize, we are nothing more than animals with more going on for us psychologically. No matter how we try to play it off, we will still have the hardwired instincts as any other mammal.




Hard-wired instincts, eh? I've never found any evidence of this, in my experience. I have tendencies based upon previous programming, but they certainly aren't "hard-wired". A conscious individual can completely navigate the living of one's life as that individual wishes.

Quote:


You can't trust anyone given specific circumstances anyone can stab you in the back. Don't trust them. Or anyone for that matter.




So what? Hold no expectations of reality, and do not necessitate that one's state of being is to be derived from external aspects of reality. Trust will not be an issue, and there will be no need to "guard" (seperate from reality) anything.

Quote:


Psychology preaches that every human/animal acts on whatever meets their next basic need.




An individual acts based upon how an individual feels to act, in relation to reality.

Quote:


There is no such thing as love, caring or any of those feel good/comfort teachings.




:lol:

How do you know?

Quote:


We all wish life had more to it than this




Life has the meaning and purpose that we instill within it. I cannot speak for your experience, but I regret that it apparently is from a state of lack and incompleteness, unfufillment and wishing for more. It sounds as though your awareness is not within the present moment.

Quote:


, but as humans we are no better than a virus in this world, consuming natural resources until this world is nothing more than dead matter.




Pretty bleak outlook, one would have to question what is responsible for the formation of your expressed perspective. Do you not reap much from life (what you sow)?

Quote:


Sorry for the rant but just speaking what comes to mind. Truth is all you have is your family while you live here.




All we have is our experience and our awareness thereof. The nature of this is such that it is our responsibility for our meaning, purpose, perception, and experience of reality and of life. It is ultimately, extremely open-ended. As I already stated, you reap what you sow.

Quote:


Use em an lose em... or just let it happen to you




Honestly, that is a limited amount of unattractive options. I prefer to simply life my life and directly perceive it, and to openly interact with others in whatever manner such interaction will unfold. No attachment to any preconceived notions of what "should" be, but only what is, and also the realization of the blessing of the oppurtunity to inhabit the same space and time with other living individuals. Interaction is quite the thing, and it should not be taken for granted or obstructed as we tend to do.

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Trust In Women [Re: Veritas]
    #5684282 - 05/28/06 06:48 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
Quote:

i really gave everything to this relationship and shared everything with her. Now i am paying the price for that.




This is a sign that you gave too much.  When we give what we can afford, and only as much as we can afford, we do not pay a price later.  But when we give on credit, we always get billed with interest. :tongue:

Sometimes relating to others from within healthy boundaries can feel selfish or miserly, when we compare it to our old "giving" ways.  The guilt rises, demanding outrageous sums as "proof" of our love.  My method for dealing with this is to gently ask myself what I can give without expectation of return.  This is what I can afford.




Yes this is true. But she wanted to know everything, and would probe me constantly for me to open up and be honest etc, when i really wasnt ready to do that. i did it anyway becuase i thought i could trust her, and i stupidly imagined, (as everyone else did) that we were so compataible that our relationship was definitely going to be a very logn one.

All of our freinds would comment on how well we fitted together and everyone was just as shocked as i was when we broke up, as they all assumed we were long-term. I guess this is why i am hurting so badly and she can just move on easily like nothing has happened. I gave too much and trusted too much, so now i have to pay the piper.

Oh well, lots of teachings in this situation for me to work with. Thanks alot everyone.  :heart:


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OfflinegrimR
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Re: Trust In Women [Re: Veritas]
    #5684288 - 05/28/06 06:51 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
Quote:

Psychology preaches that every human/animal acts on whatever meets their next basic need. There is no such thing as love, caring or any of those feel good/comfort teachings.




My studies in psychology have revealed no such doctrine. Perhaps you meant biology?




Biology ow that hurts ;-)
here is a quote relating to it:

"Maslow's hierarchy of needs is a theory in psychology that Abraham Maslow proposed in his 1943 paper A Theory of Human Motivation, which he subsequently extended. His theory contends that as humans meet 'basic needs', they seek to satisfy successively 'higher needs' that occupy a set hierarchy. Maslow studied exemplary people such as Albert Einstein, Jane Addams, Eleanor Roosevelt, and Frederick Douglass rather than mentally ill or neurotic people, writing that "the study of crippled, stunted, immature, and unhealthy specimens can yield only a cripple psychology and a cripple philosophy."

"Maslow's hierarchy of needs is often depicted as a pyramid consisting of five levels: the four lower levels are grouped together as deficiency needs associated with physiological needs, while the top level is termed growth needs associated with psychological needs. While our deficiency needs must be met, our being needs are continually shaping our behaviour. The basic concept is that the higher needs in this hierarchy only come into focus once all the needs that are lower down in the pyramid are mainly or entirely satisfied. Growth forces create upward movement in the hierarchy, whereas regressive forces push prepotent needs further down the hierarchy."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_of_needs

BTW FYI these are just my beliefs, this is the Philosophy forum afterall, don't think I am trying to say I know "The Ultimate Truth," I don't think anyone does. Just speaking my mind as I think it. And saying I feel incomplete, far from it. I just hold different views than yourself, but I don't tell you what is right and what is wrong, I speak my mind, I never meant to offend anyone elses belief.


--------------------
- grimR


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http://egolost.com 
"I am already given to the power that rules my fate. And I cling to nothing, so I will have nothing to defend. I have no thoughts, so I will see. I fear nothing, so I will remember myself."

- Don Juan teachings


Edited by grimR (05/28/06 06:59 PM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Trust In Women [Re: Sinbad]
    #5684294 - 05/28/06 06:54 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I predict you will rebound with more depth and understanding and will one day be grateful for this difficult lesson.

Now don't forget to send me that photo. Buy the way. What are you wearing under your robes? :evil:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Trust In Women [Re: Sinbad]
    #5684295 - 05/28/06 06:54 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

she wanted to know everything, and would probe me constantly for me to open up and be honest etc, when i really wasnt ready to do that. i did it anyway becuase i thought i could trust her,




Did you really do it because you thought you could trust her, or because you thought the relationship might end if you said "no, I'm not ready to talk about that yet"?

I often gave too much because I was afraid of the consequences if I held back. My belief that my worth was measured by what I gave, not who I was, led me to give on credit again and again.

You might ask yourself what the "or else" was...what was the worst that could happen if you had declined to answer all of her probing questions, if you had allowed the intimacy to develop at a pace you were more comfortable with, if you had allowed the trust to build based upon her actions, rather than giving it immediately.


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Re: Trust In Women [Re: Icelander]
    #5684307 - 05/28/06 07:00 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I predict you will rebound with more depth and understanding and will one day be grateful for this difficult lesson.

Now don't forget to send me that photo. Buy the way. What are you wearing under your robes? :evil:




oh you tease! (gay lisp)





jk straight all the way up for me :-P


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"I am already given to the power that rules my fate. And I cling to nothing, so I will have nothing to defend. I have no thoughts, so I will see. I fear nothing, so I will remember myself."

- Don Juan teachings


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Re: Trust In Women [Re: grimR]
    #5684308 - 05/28/06 07:00 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Hierarchy of needs

1. Physiological
2. Safety
3. Love/Belonging
4. Esteem
5. Actualization




How do you come to the conclusion that higher needs do not exist, and that we are all seeking to satisfy our next basic need?

Once the physiological needs (breath, water, food, urination, defecation, sleep, body temperature regulation) are met, we move up the "pyramid" and seek to fulfill our psychological needs.

In fact, Maslow stated that our "being" (actualization) needs shape our behavior far more than our "deficiency" (physiological and psychological) needs.

Maslow in no way stated that love does not exist, but rather emphasized the importance of higher needs in our satisfaction with life.  :confused:


Edited by Veritas (05/28/06 07:16 PM)


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Re: Trust In Women [Re: Sinbad]
    #5684322 - 05/28/06 07:05 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Look at it this way:  "I shared everything with her."  :thumbup:

You opened and gave yourself to her, put forth your energy to fill her.  You shared.  In life and experience.  There are probably good times and not so enjoyable moments to recall, but that doesn't matter now.  They are memories of your shared journey with her.  You took part in one of the soul's adventures here on the planet.  I don't know, that seems cool to me.  If you shared everything with her, then you did well.  You committed an act of love. 

You should feel good about that.  Take peace from the knowledge that you did share everything, believe me, it's beautiful that you have that potential.  But you must never forget about YOU.  It just seems to me that the only "permanant" thing in your life is you.  And even that's not entirely steady, what with the uncertainty of death and all.  People will always leave, one way or another. But you'll be the last one standing anyway, the only one standing at the threshold of your life and death.  Therefore, I truly believe YOU should come first in matters of the heart. 

It's truly special that you shared everything with her.  Just remember that in sharing you no way lose yourself.  :heart:


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Re: Trust In Women [Re: Veritas]
    #5684324 - 05/28/06 07:06 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Your correct. I did only answer her questions for that reason, not out of trust at all. I have often measured my worth to others by how much i give. So that is a very accurate assessment. i should have let the intimacy develop at its own pace, i see that now. Also 3 months into the relationship i had to have a talk with her, because i was feeling very vulnerable and claustrophobic. We were spending all of our time together and things were moving way to fast for me.

Apparently for her nothing was the same after that talk. She said that afterwards she was afraid to talk to me about her worries and would sometimes feel as if she had to give me my space, even when she felt she needed me for something. So the relationship shifted gears dramatically, and i didn't even notice that something was wrong. In fact i thought things had improved because finally i was being allowed some room to breath. But towards the end of our relationship i felt we were drifting apart. We would argue over trivial things alot. This is when things got a little messy so i wont get into it here.

Not long after she broke it off, and i was devastated. I wasn't even aware of my own attachments until that point. Anyway, you were correct, i opened up and gave too much too soon for the wrong reasons and everything got messed up from there. We did actually talk alot about this when we were together and i thought we had actually resolved the problem when i addressed her constant probing. But obviously i didn't handle that situation very well either and might have hurt her feelings by being to straight up and blunt about the problems. Relationships are complicated. I don't think ill be getting into another one for a long time after this.


Edited by Sinbad (05/28/06 07:13 PM)


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Re: Trust In Women [Re: Sinbad]
    #5684344 - 05/28/06 07:13 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

A "no" uttered from deepest conviction  is better and greater  than a "yes" merely uttered to please, or what is worse, to avoid trouble.
-Mahatma Gandhi




:heart:


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Re: Trust In Women [Re: Veritas]
    #5684351 - 05/28/06 07:15 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
Quote:

Hierarchy of needs

1. Physiological
2. Safety
3. Love/Belonging
4. Esteem
5. Actualization




How do you come to the conclusion that higher needs do not exist, and that we are all seeking to satisfy our next basic need?

Once the physiological needs (breath, water, food, urination, defecation, sleep, body temperature regulation) are met, we move up the "pyramid" and seek to fulfill our psychological needs.

In fact, Maslow stated that our "being" (psychological) needs shape our behavior far more than our "deficiency" (physiological) needs.

Maslow in no way stated that love does not exist, but rather emphasized the importance of higher needs in our satisfaction with life.  :confused:




"Love/Belonging needs

After physiological and safety needs are fulfilled, the third layer of human needs are social. This involves emotionally-based relationships in general, such as friendship, sexual intimacy, and/or having a family. Humans want to be accepted and to belong, whether it be to clubs, work groups, religious groups, family, gangs, etc. They need to feel loved (sexually and non-sexually) by others, and to be accepted by them. People also have a constant desire to feel needed. In the absence of these elements, people become increasingly susceptible to loneliness, social anxiety and depression."

- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_of_needs#Love.2FBelonging_needs

Now that you mention it, I guess everyone can have their own definition of love


--------------------
- grimR


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http://egolost.com 
"I am already given to the power that rules my fate. And I cling to nothing, so I will have nothing to defend. I have no thoughts, so I will see. I fear nothing, so I will remember myself."

- Don Juan teachings


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Re: Trust In Women [Re: grimR]
    #5684360 - 05/28/06 07:22 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Maslow said:
The love needs. -- If both the physiological and the safety needs are fairly well gratified, then there will emerge the love and affection and belongingness needs, and the whole cycle [p. 381] already described will repeat itself with this new center.

Now the person will feel keenly, as never before, the absence of friends, or a sweetheart, or a wife, or children. He will hunger for affectionate relations with people in general, namely, for a place in his group, and he will strive with great intensity to achieve this goal. He will want to attain such a place more than anything else in the world and may even forget that once, when he was hungry, he sneered at love.
...
One thing that must be stressed at this point is that love is not synonymous with sex. Sex may be studied as a purely physiological need. Ordinarily sexual behavior is multi-determined, that is to say, determined not only by sexual but also by other needs, chief among which are the love and affection needs. Also not to be overlooked is the fact that the love needs involve both giving and receiving love.




How is this an alternate definition of love?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Trust In Women [Re: Sinbad]
    #5684380 - 05/28/06 07:29 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Sidbad, The fact that she had to probe so constantly and against your wishes and then felt insecure when you wouldn't share "everything" says loads about her. I have had run ins with this type of woman. IMO they are deeply insecure and you could never provide enough to meet those kind of infinite needs. She needed to know everything because she was witholding so much of her truth from you.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflinegrimR
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Re: Trust In Women [Re: Veritas]
    #5684391 - 05/28/06 07:31 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Now the person will feel keenly, as never before, the absence of friends, or a sweetheart, or a wife, or children. He will hunger for affectionate relations with people in general, namely, for a place in his group, and he will strive with great intensity to achieve this goal. He will want to attain such a place more than anything else in the world and may even forget that once, when he was hungry, he sneered at love.



- Not Maslow

you added to the book of maslow!

Your welcome to your own beliefs, it shouldn't bother you that I have my own. I do believe in these needs but I try not to take them anymore serious than requirements for happiness. Never did I say I do not participate in acting on these needs, it is inevitable.


--------------------
- grimR


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
http://egolost.com 
"I am already given to the power that rules my fate. And I cling to nothing, so I will have nothing to defend. I have no thoughts, so I will see. I fear nothing, so I will remember myself."

- Don Juan teachings


Edited by grimR (05/28/06 07:35 PM)


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Trust In Women [Re: Icelander]
    #5684409 - 05/28/06 07:39 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Sidbad, The fact that she had to probe so constantly and against your wishes and then felt insecure when you wouldn't share "everything" says loads about her. I have had run ins with this type of woman. IMO they are deeply insecure and you could never provide enough to meet those kind of infinite needs. She needed to know everything because she was witholding so much of her truth from you.




This is very true. Today she told me that she had feelings for someone else whilst we were still together. But i wont get into all the rubbish on this forum. Its way to complicated and messy for me to go into details again and i wont drag myself through it again. But yes you are right, she was withholding alot from me i think. You are correct about the insecurity issues as well. But i think she would rather me not discuss them openly on this board.


--------------------


Edited by Sinbad (05/28/06 07:53 PM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Trust In Women [Re: Sinbad]
    #5684416 - 05/28/06 07:41 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

All that matters is that you know it. We don't need to. :heart:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Trust In Women [Re: grimR]
    #5684426 - 05/28/06 07:47 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

That quote is directly from Maslow's paper "A theory of human motivation."  Here's the link:

http://psychclassics.yorku.ca/Maslow/motivation.htm

I've read several of his books...he was an amazing teacher.  :heart:  I am very familiar with his ideas, and I'm struggling to understand how you have based your POV upon his writings.

It does not bother me that you have your own ideas, I was just asking you to elaborate.  In what way is Maslow's description of love different from yours?  Why do you believe that humans are slaves to their lower needs, to the exclusion of love?

Actualization goes beyond happiness--it could be described as the pinnacle of successful human life.  While it is possible to become self-actualized without fulfilling all of your "lower" needs, it is not very probable.


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Re: Trust In Women [Re: Veritas]
    #5684487 - 05/28/06 08:17 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

when I said love I was referring to true love, as in unconditional love. I just don't believe in the concept of it. My only point is I believe that every action we take, every word we say is related to a chemical balance in our brain, keeping us happy/content. Maybe you misunderstood my not believing in love.

My opinion is that sometimes we bring ourselves to believe in something over time to comfort ourselves that there is more meaning to life than what it really is.

Quote:

Love is patient and kind; love is not jealous or boastful; it is not arrogant or rude. Love does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrong, but rejoices in the right. Love bears all things; believes all things; hopes all things; endures all things.




If love can end I don't believe it was love to begin with. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.


--------------------
- grimR


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
http://egolost.com 
"I am already given to the power that rules my fate. And I cling to nothing, so I will have nothing to defend. I have no thoughts, so I will see. I fear nothing, so I will remember myself."

- Don Juan teachings


Edited by grimR (05/28/06 08:22 PM)


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Trust In Women [Re: grimR]
    #5684501 - 05/28/06 08:21 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Love doesn't end, but we may decide to stop sharing love with a particular person. The key to unconditional love is recognizing that we're surrounded by love all the time. It is our erroneous sense of lack which results in placing conditions upon our willingness to share love.



Quote:

My only point is I believe that every action we take, every word we say is related to a chemical balance in our brain, keeping us happy/content.




Ahhh...but which comes first, the chemical or the signal to release that chemical? Why do we release certain chemicals & not others? Why is it possible to "retrain" the brain & change our neurochemical response?

This is far more complex than knee-jerk survival instincts and basic chemistry.

Quote:

My opinion is that sometimes we bring ourselves to believe in something over time to comfort ourselves that there is more meaning to life than what it really is.




How do you know what it really is? It's all just best guesses & creative explanations.


Edited by Veritas (05/28/06 08:35 PM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Trust In Women [Re: grimR]
    #5684504 - 05/28/06 08:21 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

How about unconditional love/unconditional acceptance of the self? Do you think that does not exist as a reality?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Trust In Women [Re: Sinbad]
    #5684514 - 05/28/06 08:25 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

"Almost every woman i have had relations with, throughout my life, has tried/has has managed to shatter my trust through lies, secrets and betrayl. Why shoudl i ever trust another woman again?"

Don't give up. That is just a perception. One can change one's reality by changing one's perception. Take it for what it is worth.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Re: Trust In Women [Re: Icelander]
    #5684550 - 05/28/06 08:36 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I don't really believe in rules. Your reality is whatever you make of it. Personally, I don't believe in psychological disorders, to me they are nothing more than an explanation for difference from society. Society school of thought is nothing more than a generalization made by the majority. Doesn't mean everyone has to go along with that. Disorders were invented to describe those who do not fall into the majority. Everyone is different and with more and more "psychological disorders" like ADD coming out, who knows what they will come up with to describe each of us. ADD to me is nothing more than a conflict of interests, those with ADD have shown just as high sometimes higher attention levels with subjects they enjoy. To me it is another explanation for people who aren't easily amused. That is where my opinions differ on psychology. Of course there is an explanation for everything in psychology, that is why they started the science, if you would call it that. Everyone has their own opinions on life. I get my opinions from animal studies and how they have reacted without societys inspiration... how this all influences our lifecycle.


--------------------
- grimR


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http://egolost.com 
"I am already given to the power that rules my fate. And I cling to nothing, so I will have nothing to defend. I have no thoughts, so I will see. I fear nothing, so I will remember myself."

- Don Juan teachings


Edited by grimR (05/28/06 10:12 PM)


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Trust In Women [Re: Veritas]
    #5684587 - 05/28/06 08:52 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Wonderful response.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Re: Trust In Women [Re: grimR]
    #5684597 - 05/28/06 08:55 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

I just relate to animals and what we know on them and how this can relate to us.




Yes, and those concepts are based in biology, rather than psychology:shrug:  Humans are strange critters.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Trust In Women [Re: grimR]
    #5684605 - 05/28/06 08:58 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I get my opinions from animal studies

I get my opinions from psychedelics. :wink: :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (05/28/06 09:00 PM)


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Trust In Women [Re: Icelander]
    #5684607 - 05/28/06 09:00 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

dead horses


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Re: Trust In Women [Re: Veritas]
    #5684805 - 05/28/06 10:08 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
Quote:

I just relate to animals and what we know on them and how this can relate to us.




Yes, and those concepts are based in biology, rather than psychology:shrug:  Humans are strange critters.




I guess you could say my beliefs are based on a touch of each. Psychology consists of a lot of data considered by myself as opinions. I more or less take some of both to form my belief system. Anyone is free to stay in the lines of establishment, I rather think for myself.

"Insane people are always sure that they are fine. It is only the sane people who are willing to admit that they are crazy." Nora Ephron

"When people are driving themselves crazy, they have neuroses or psychosis. When they drive other people crazy, they have personality disorders. but Though there is plenty of narcissim without greatness, there is no greatness without narcissism."
Albert Bernstein

That is where we are alike Icelander, the great psychedelic teachers help :-)


--------------------
- grimR


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
http://egolost.com 
"I am already given to the power that rules my fate. And I cling to nothing, so I will have nothing to defend. I have no thoughts, so I will see. I fear nothing, so I will remember myself."

- Don Juan teachings


Edited by grimR (05/28/06 10:14 PM)


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Re: Trust In Women [Re: grimR]
    #5684821 - 05/28/06 10:12 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

The way one relates to woman is the way one relates to the world.

Think about that one!


--------------------
putting the "hype" back in hyperspace


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Re: Trust In Women [Re: opioq]
    #5684838 - 05/28/06 10:16 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

or the other way around :-)


--------------------
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http://egolost.com 
"I am already given to the power that rules my fate. And I cling to nothing, so I will have nothing to defend. I have no thoughts, so I will see. I fear nothing, so I will remember myself."

- Don Juan teachings


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Re: Trust In Women [Re: Sinbad]
    #5684900 - 05/28/06 10:34 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I trust that a women will do what she needs to do for her own good, just as a man should do the same.

I trust that in time and as i get older all that jazz about finding that partner will come into play.

I feel it is more neccesary to not waste all my energy and time concerning myself with what the ladies are doing. When our paths cross, sweet. if they run parallel to each other, sweet.

I can't own a womens life or make her live mine. I just do what i do the best that i can.


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Re: Trust In Women [Re: Corporal Kielbasa]
    #5685632 - 05/29/06 04:35 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Even though we are snagged into this analysis,
this thread is really about a broken heart -
that poetic thing that happens simmilarly in any culture.

everyone should be lucky enough to fall in love in the first place.
we have to do it without fear of having our hearts broken.

to experience a broken heart is a huge honor and to recover skillfully is the very best asset,
may your heart break wonderfully in wonderful ways
is the best blessing I can offer.

I will not delete this one which encourages the future, the past is the past, heal.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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Re: Trust In Women [Re: redgreenvines]
    #5685725 - 05/29/06 07:09 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

when your heart is truly broken

you never really recover

you just get used to having a broken heart


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Re: Trust In Women [Re: DoctorJ]
    #5685752 - 05/29/06 07:47 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

that's just too melodramatic


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Trust In Women [Re: DoctorJ]
    #5685768 - 05/29/06 08:05 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

DoctorJ said:
when your heart is truly broken

you never really recover

you just get used to having a broken heart




That is certainly how it feels right now.


--------------------


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Re: Trust In Women [Re: redgreenvines]
    #5685770 - 05/29/06 08:07 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

:lol:

:smirk:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Re: Trust In Women [Re: Sinbad]
    #5685801 - 05/29/06 08:31 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Sinbad said:
Quote:

DoctorJ said:
when your heart is truly broken

you never really recover

you just get used to having a broken heart






That is certainly how it feels right now.




Go to Burning Man Sinbad and you will be healed. :thumbup: :mushroom2: :heart: :thumbup: :mushroom2: :heart: I'm not joking.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Trust In Women [Re: DoctorJ]
    #5685809 - 05/29/06 08:34 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

DoctorJ said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
You will solve this problem within yourself because that's where the problem resides. She is your teacher for this work or in my world your "petty tyrant". Fact is that we need them soooo much. :grin: :heart:




the problem resides in both the self AND the selves of others.  That is why its so hard to solve. 

and nobody NEEDS a woman.  Tibetan monks often go entire lifetimes without female companionship. 

Icelander = :whip:

To the original poster:  Have faith and respect women.  It might be awhile till you find the one for you, but the best advice I can give you is to just throw yourself out there and be prepared to deal with any outcome.  Eventually you will find someone so perfect that you will be inseparable and worthy of eachother's trust. 

many people have accused me of disrespecting women.  but the truth is I respect women enough to let them do whatever they want.  And I have faith that I will find one that is right for me eventually. 

remember that freedom is a very new thing to women.  Its not totally their fault that they often don't use their freedom to make wise choices.  As men, we must be gentle stewards who show women the way of responsibility and freedom.  Sometimes this means letting them walk on your heart a little.  But hey, you're a man, you can take it.  And don't think she won't pay (karmicly speaking) for the evil things she has done.




I never said anyone needs a woman. :tongue: You seem to miss just about any point I try and make. :grin: Teachers and petty tyrants are what we need in whatever form they take.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Trust In Women [Re: Icelander]
    #5685816 - 05/29/06 08:38 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Cant do that man. Wish i could but I dont live in the U.S and im a poor broke student. Im going to Italy soon tho, but im not sure how im going to deal with that, as my ex and i planned to go together. So that will probably end up being even more torture not doubt. :sad:


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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa

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Re: Trust In Women [Re: redgreenvines]
    #5685818 - 05/29/06 08:38 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

aaaah the good ole broken heart!

I get a broken heart almost every day...


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Trust In Women [Re: Sinbad]
    #5685872 - 05/29/06 08:56 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

So sad. I have found BM to be one of the most joyous, healing places on earth. At the end of this world I will remember the Man. In some slight way it is my version of the kingdom come to earth. I only wish I had experienced some of the early years of it.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Trust In Women [Re: Sinbad]
    #5685937 - 05/29/06 09:37 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Sinbad said:
Quote:

DoctorJ said:
when your heart is truly broken

you never really recover

you just get used to having a broken heart





That is certainly how it feels right now.




Hearts, like bones, heal stronger at the broken places.  :heart:

Only the mind may be weakened by our perception of being broken.


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Re: Trust In Women [Re: Veritas]
    #5685956 - 05/29/06 09:51 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

whaat?


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Re: Trust In Women [Re: redgreenvines]
    #5685958 - 05/29/06 09:54 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

We undermine our emotional strength and resilience through the cultivation of fear.

I think Bonnie Raitt said it best:

"He's like a boxer who had to retire
after winning but killing a man.
All of the moves
but none of the courage.
Afraid to throw a punch that might land."

Rumi saw through the illusion of brokenness:

"Dance when you are broken open, Dance when you have torn the bandages off, Dance in the middle of the fighting, Dance in your blood, Dance when you are perfectly free."


Edited by Veritas (05/29/06 10:13 AM)


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Trust In Women [Re: Sinbad]
    #5686083 - 05/29/06 11:02 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Sinbad said:

So how do i now attempt to change the type of women i usually fall for?. If you think that i am choosing the kinds of women who will hurt me so i can learn something. What could that lesson possibly be?

I feel right now that the only thing ive really learned from all this, is not to place my trust in women, becuase even if they have no intention to, they still always break my trust, and my heart eventually.




The answer (which I was not as good providing as a description and outcome of my own experience) is: Work on yourself. This is not my own advice - I took this advice from Ram Dass a long time ago. Everything becomes one's 'sadhana' [discipline]. You are, as Jungians are wont to say, 'in a complex.' When an individual uncritically makes huge blanket statements, or when someone says "You always...," or "You never...," then one can be sure that the person is in a complex (an autonomous constellation of feelings and thoughts that chime in over critical thinking - a 'ready made' answer). Your problem is not with women as 50% of the human race. You are not talking about Nigerian Muslim women or Nigerian Christian women, or Indian Hindu women vs. Indian Muslim women. "Women" is such a vague term with regard to your complaint that it is irrelevant.

The difficulty lies within your own psychodynamics and is more complicted than passive vs. active. It more than likely involves your self-identity (not just as an "active" individual) but your physical, social, psychological and spiritual selves taken as a whole. Each of these categories can be further subdivided. Each of the subdivisions can then be compared to the desires of a specific woman. If you are a physically large man, you would need to know if a lady is looking for your body type. Social selves are multiform: ethnicity, socio-economic, status, etc. Are you, for example, college educated, and she is not? I have met with intimidation because nobody wants to feel ignorant in a relationship and those with weak self-esteem will avoid anyone who would elicit such feelings even if you're not a condescending person. Are you from middle class and is she from 'blue-collar' or 'upper-crust?' Is she of Italian extraction (and expected to marry an Italian by her family) and you're not? and by extension (working a stereotype), is she a Catholic (practicing or not) with embedded Catholic morals/guilt in her unconscious, and you're neither of these identities?

These are examples without going into psychology or spirituality (or the absence of). Few people are able or willing to transcend these categories of difference. Most (myself included) thought that I was transcending differences when I married my ex-wife, but in fact I was merely in a state of denial! You need to know which of your onion-layered identities MOST characterizes who you are in a practical way BEFORE you can reach out to another. She can only know who you are when YOU know who you are. And if her identity is fuzzy, then she may morph and change into someone else right in the middle of your relationship. Then like me, you'll wake up to the realization that you never really knew her and you don't have any chemistry between you. This can be due to her immaturity, lack of interest in self-knowledge (she doesn't work on herself) or to a personality disorder which disallows a consistent selfhood to develop (which was my ex-wife's predicament).

Work on yourself.

Peace.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa

Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 17,235
Re: Trust In Women [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5686098 - 05/29/06 11:09 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

good ole Ram Das!


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Trust In Women [Re: grimR]
    #5686110 - 05/29/06 11:17 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I have to agree with fireworks_god. Without any unsolicited analysis on my part, it is clear that you are not a happy camper. You suffer, and your suffering is rooted in materialism, nihilism, and more than a smidgen of paranoid ideation. You could not possibly have a healthy relationship with unhealthy dynamics in play. With a companion of like sentiments, you'd seem likely to 'take the gaspipe' together  :eek:! Hopefully you're only going through a phase of protracted adolescent angst (that all there is, is what you can presently see through your confusion, and that life will never get any happier). If it's a phase, I recommend that you become proactive in acquiring a higher, wider perspective right NOW.

Peace.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 13 days
Re: Trust In Women [Re: Sinbad]
    #5686111 - 05/29/06 11:19 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Sinbad said:
Im going to Italy soon tho, but im not sure how im going to deal with that, as my ex and i planned to go together. So that will probably end up being even more torture not doubt. :sad:




If going to Italy is going to be torture because of the fact that someone that you used to go out with was planning on going with you, then I think the problem should be self-evident. In the purest, most practical sense, you are addicted to a certain sense of being that will not be provided for by reality, and the fact that you are denying your experience of the present moment and expecting to do so in the future should indicate fairly well that you are not centered within the here and now.

You are struggling agansit a riptide that shall not relent, a riptide that only exists because you struggle. Why are you suffering, my friend?

I thought you were a Buddhist, man, what's the deal? :shocked: You better not be implying that all of your posts have been rooted in a mere intellectual, conceptual understanding and that you haven't actually actively been applying that understanding and realizing it in practice. :mad:

I'd recommend getting over yourself. If you ruin a blessed experience such as Italy, then you will more than certainly be lost. It should be seen and looked forward to as a blessed oppurtunity to remove any mental obstructions that are rooted in an illusory past and an imagined future, to simply be without one's personal history and to journey around new territory, completely immersed within the moment - just as all moments should be seen.

Why do we fall? So that we can pick ourselves up. You've placed conditions and demands on reality, and reality has demonstrated that it will conduct itself as it wishes, despite your baseless, petty expectations.  You've held your emotional state of being hostage in order to manipulate yourself to attempt to attain something that simply cannot be grasped, and now you are inflicting suffering upon yourself as a result.

Ask yourself why, my friend. Ask yourself what you need to be fully present and aware, and ask yourself what gain is achieved from letting your state of being lie dependant on external situations.

I have a great feeling you already know all of this, and that you know exactly what you need to do in order to transcend this - and yet, your mind feels it deserves what it is experiencing. Kick it in the fucking ass and transform it into something that can effectively, properly, beneficially conduct and navigate yourself and your experience of life. :wink:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleSinbad
Living TheMoment
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Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 2,571
Loc: Under The Bodhi Tree
Re: Trust In Women [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5686530 - 05/29/06 01:37 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Thanks man, i needed a cold water splash in the face to wake me up. Your a very wise man, and im glad you are around these parts to kick ass where asses need to be kicked!  :cheerup:

Italy will not be torture as i am going there to do retreat with my teacher. What better medicine is there? :grin:

Getting caught up in disturbing emotions is no picnic and have yet to master them totally, hence the broken heart. Lucky i have people like you around to remind me not to lose sight of how things are. Thank you!  :thumbup:


--------------------


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Trust In Women [Re: Sinbad]
    #5686755 - 05/29/06 02:31 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Sinbad said:
Getting caught up in disturbing emotions is no picnic and have yet to master them totally, hence the broken heart. Lucky i have people like you around to remind me not to lose sight of how things are. Thank you!  :thumbup:




We've all been there, myself included. Its necessary to fully experience the result of our mental programming in all situations without resistance, and then bring oneself back into a center and ask oneself questions, so that one can build an understanding of what was responsible for the disturbance and what will need to be done to develop and change the aspects of one's programming that were responsible for its occurence.

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Trust In Women [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5686913 - 05/29/06 03:15 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

:thumbup: You said it.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineKidgardFromSRQ
Strange

Registered: 05/30/05
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Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
Re: Trust In Women [Re: Sinbad]
    #5688513 - 05/29/06 09:14 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Sinbad said:
Almost every woman i have had relations with, throughout my life, has tried/has has managed to shatter my trust through lies, secrets and betrayl. Why shoudl i ever trust another woman again?

I dont think i can after yet another confirmation of how untrustworthy women i come into contact with are in general.




you've got two options if you are to come to that conclusion. well, 2 likley ones.

1. masturbate alot.
2. become gay

and the other ones are either suicide or celebacy. and i highley doubt you'll do either. infact, i think you'll move on.


--------------------
Be nice to people in general. Even if you don't like them.


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OfflineMaverick
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Re: Trust In Women [Re: KidgardFromSRQ]
    #5688670 - 05/29/06 09:54 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quit viewing every woman you get near as someone you want to date. I bet you that the girls you aren't at all interested in sexually that you talk to, haven't shattered your life.


Boo-ya.


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Invisibleit stars saddam
Satan

Registered: 05/19/05
Posts: 15,571
Loc: Spahn Ranch
Re: Trust In Women [Re: redgreenvines]
    #5688743 - 05/29/06 10:16 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

DoctorJ said:
when your heart is truly broken

you never really recover

you just get used to having a broken heart




Quote:

redgreenvines said:
that's just too melodramatic




:lol:


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OfflineSDP
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Re: Trust In Women [Re: Icelander]
    #5688781 - 05/29/06 10:24 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Girls = attachment.

Nonsense!




Girls dont nesc. = attachment, but being involved in a romantic relationship one does... you cant help its, its biological, so why not avoid it if your ok doing that?

-SDP  :rasta:


--------------------
Teonanacatl, open up my eyes
This sacrament, this prayer, beyond the world of lies
Guide me clearly through that which I dont understand
Give me strength to find the path
Help me fight any demons as you flow through me wholely
This is my prayer, that you protect me from evil, and bring me closer to peace
And open up my eyes, so i can see things as you do
Amen


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
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Registered: 04/05/00
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Re: Trust In Women [Re: Sinbad]
    #5689557 - 05/30/06 02:17 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Perhaps you're becoming fixated on the first woman you're interested in that shows you some kind of affection because of your desire for intimacy? I think a reasonable level of understanding about a woman's integrity can be discerned before a deep emotional investment has been made for that woman. This understanding will be more readily available to you if you are putting yourself out there and taking interest and getting to know and enjoy as many women as time permits. By taking this time, truths about the women you're getting to know will begin to surface up because you'll have a multitude of experiences to refer to.

Why should you ever trust another woman again?

You'd be a fool to trust another woman...... before you're ready, that is.


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Re: Trust In Women [Re: SDP]
    #5689997 - 05/30/06 08:37 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

SDP said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Girls = attachment.

Nonsense!




Girls dont nesc. = attachment, but being involved in a romantic relationship one does... you cant help its, its biological, so why not avoid it if your ok doing that?

-SDP  :rasta:




Really? I disagee. I think certain persons are able. Check out Ken Keyes book on relationships. You can relate without negative attachment. One would need to be fluid in their life though. Once you realize that you can love many rather then one you can let go of that compulsive attachment.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Trust In Women [Re: Sinbad]
    #5690064 - 05/30/06 09:34 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Sinbad said:
Almost every woman i have had relations with, throughout my life, has tried/has has managed to shatter my trust through lies, secrets and betrayl. Why shoudl i ever trust another woman again?

I dont think i can after yet another confirmation of how untrustworthy women i come into contact with are in general.




Practicing family law, I have found that women, in general (meaning that no, not all women are like this), are manipulative liars. I once advertised "Attorney for Men" in the yellow pages because after I saw the pattern of what women do, I didn't want any women contacting me.

I once said to this guy that I felt sorry for men for what they had to put up with just to "get some."

I once heard a judge say, "Why is it that women think that the way to initiate a divorce is to file a request for a restraining order?"

By filing a request for a restraining order, based on lies, women come into control of the house, money and kids. By the time it's all sorted out, she usually keeps control of at least the kids and tries to prevent the dad from seeing them.

Again, not all women are like this, and there is a small minority of men who do something similar, and so I am representing women again in divorce actions.

But beware of women. If they seem manipulative, if they seem motivated by money or property, then stay away from them. Look for one who is down to earth.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisibleVeritas
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Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: Trust In Women [Re: Frog]
    #5690086 - 05/30/06 09:48 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Saying "women, in general" implies that you are meeting more than a narrow band of the entire spectrum of women.  I was a Family Law paralegal for many years, and have realized what a skewed perspective on people this type of profession affords.

1. You are only seeing women when they are pursuing a divorce.  Generally, those who seek legal assistance are not divorcing amicably, so you are meeting those who cannot or will not communicate with their spouse about the dissolution of their relationship.

2.  You are seeing women at their emotional worst: stressed out, angry, sad, resentful, scared, etc...

3.  You are only involved because there are property and custody issues to be resolved.  Couples without stuff & kids can pick up the forms for free at the courthouse.

4.  Women are often advised by their friends to go on the offensive in a divorce.  I've heard the advice given by well-meaning friends: get a restraining order, or else he'll sell all your stuff, hide the money & you will end up on the streets.  Don't let him have custody of the kids, or you'll never see them again--his new girlfriend will have them calling her "Mommy" within six months.  Even women who might disbelieve this advice under better circumstances can become scared enough to take inappropriate action.

I left Family Law because I got so tired of always seeing people at their worst.  :sad:


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OfflinePhoshaman
Litteringannnnddddd?
I'm a teapot

Registered: 06/01/99
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Re: Trust In Women [Re: Veritas]
    #5690349 - 05/30/06 11:32 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I just want to thank everybody that contributed to this thread.

I read every post.

Going through kinda the same thing right now , except I'm still with her ... I think we just dove in too deep, too fast. There still seems to be a glimmer of hope tho. The main problem is we have 52 miles between us (and in Los Angeles, this means a 3 hour drive).


--------------------


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