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OfflineFeelers
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Unusual Looking "Subs" ID request NZ
    #5679508 - 05/27/06 05:00 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Well went hunting today to my favourite patch and found these in an area that I have previously picked subs before - within 30cms or less.

They are quite strange - they bruise a very odd slight silvery grey blue. I'm waiting on spore prints. They are very different to the other subs I picked today. These have quite translucent pointed caps. They also seem very tall and slender - and the caps fall off relativly easily. The caps have gone a faint grey blue colour.

Anyone seen anything like this?
This is the best pic I have - there are other photos but they are at my mates place so I could post them later on.

These were found in the usual sub habitat - pine bark gardens.
Here are the definate subs I found today - for a comparison.




Edited by Feelers (05/27/06 05:42 AM)


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: Unusual Looking "Subs" ID request NZ [Re: Feelers]
    #5681781 - 05/27/06 11:53 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

get a gill fragment to inski and we'll have a look at what it is


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OfflineFeelers
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Re: Unusual Looking "Subs" ID request NZ [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #5681877 - 05/28/06 12:25 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

What are your initial thoughts BM? Does anyone know what these are? Are they definately psilocybes?

Based on only that picture can you make any guesses?


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: Unusual Looking "Subs" ID request NZ [Re: Feelers]
    #5681885 - 05/28/06 12:27 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Probably not - what is the colour of the spore print?


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OfflineFeelers
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Re: Unusual Looking "Subs" ID request NZ [Re: Feelers]
    #5681890 - 05/28/06 12:28 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

I do have access to a 1000x microscope - do these need to remain fresh? Is it something I can do myself or is some expertise needed?

I have a friend with a video camera attatched to a microscope too - so I could get pics.


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: Unusual Looking "Subs" ID request NZ [Re: Feelers]
    #5681916 - 05/28/06 12:35 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

nah you can do it - just wait until it dries if you want - you can use water to bring it up to scratch.
You need to look at the gill edge and side.


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OfflineLegalize247
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Re: Unusual Looking "Subs" ID request NZ [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #5682220 - 05/28/06 02:40 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

nice find. Hows the potency on those.


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Legalize the FUNGI-USA...I have no more to say.


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Re: Unusual Looking "Subs" ID request NZ [Re: Feelers]
    #5685568 - 05/29/06 04:53 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

They almost look like Ps.semilanceata but you say they were growing in the subs habitat, were they fruiting on wood?
I would be interested in seeing micro pics of those!
Nice colour!!!
inski :smile:


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Re: Unusual Looking "Subs" ID request NZ [Re: inski]
    #5685610 - 05/29/06 05:46 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

There was also a difference in where the stem met the cap. Here's a shitty drawing of what I mean.....


Imagine cutting the mushroom in half....
The weird one on the left, a normal sub on the right. The stem goes right the way to the tip of the cap before attachment, which probably explains why the caps come off so easily - compared to the normal subs which need (relativly) a lot of effort to remove (for spore printing etc)


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Offlinedeadhorse
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Re: Unusual Looking "Subs" ID request NZ [Re: Feelers]
    #5687493 - 05/29/06 07:26 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Kia Ora

On the subject of unusual subs, I found a patch today that look more like aucklandii than normal subs. This is weird because I've been hunting for about 17 years in auckland and the 2 species always seemed completely different both in appearance and habitat/ substrate: ie never found aucklandii anywhere other than pine forest, never found subs anywhere other than dead wood, mulch gardens.
These ones were about 10 metres away from a patch of normal subs which were growing in the open. They had been partially buried in pine mulch, and were growing in a fairly dark spot overgrown with hebes. May have something to do with it. I remember reading elsewhere on the forums a post about these 2 species being regarded as variants of the same species ( I think it was oTTo?) microscopically similar if very different in macro. Didn't really believe it to be honest- they seem so different, and consistently so- til I found this lot. I'm starting to wonder if fungi might just break a few rules taxonomically when they feel like it...

Anyway I found it interesting.

It would be cool to find aucklandii (if that's what they are)somewhere other than the only place I've ever seen them in all this time...

Known aucklandii from a previous hunt


typical subaeruginosa

Half and half's...

one of each for comparison- more typical sub on right


Edited by deadhorse (05/29/06 08:02 PM)


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Invisibleshroomydan
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Re: Unusual Looking "Subs" ID request NZ [Re: Feelers]
    #5687599 - 05/29/06 07:52 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Could those be Mycena. I seem to recall a post from New Zealand of bluing Mycenas that looked similar to this collection. Spore print will tell.


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Re: Unusual Looking "Subs" ID request NZ [Re: deadhorse]
    #5687620 - 05/29/06 07:57 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

I would have to say that due to the "Nature of things" we have a new species popping up that is a cross "polinized" species kinda like an X-men of mushrooms lol... maybe a mix or a more versatile species that is adapting to new forms of medium to grow on.. some of the nutrients could have different effects on the visual appearance of the mushroom, but it seems that those are bruising blue which doesn't mean much... I would do a science project using lab rats or something ... might be an interesting find.


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Re: Unusual Looking "Subs" ID request NZ [Re: mushmellowman]
    #5689345 - 05/30/06 02:59 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Ok so I went and used the microscopes at uni.

Ummm I'm geussing that the eyepiece scale is 1um at 1000x? I wrote down the model of the eyepiece if that might not be the case.

Ok so, microscopically the spores are purple, ovoid and there seems to be a bit of a nipple at one end.
The spores measured 5um wide by 11um long.

I have never really looked at spores/gills before so when I was looking for cistida I was just going on what inski had shown in one of his threads. I found that they were only apparant on one side on any peice of gill, and they looked like this.... (borrowed from inski - hope you dont mind :laugh: )


They were a little bit more pinched than above- although I doubt that means anything - I might just be imagining it. haha
Here's another shit drawing of what I  mean..... unknowns on the left, inskis on the right....
(inski - feel free to use my amazing representation any time!)

So now what does all the above mean?


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Re: Unusual Looking "Subs" ID request NZ [Re: Feelers]
    #5693911 - 05/31/06 07:48 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

I had a look at the relative spore sizes of both mushrooms - liberties and Subaerugrinosa, they are both within the measurements I made.

Anywho.... for anyone who wanted to know what a Subareugrinosa spore looks like - I found these.....



I notice that in these picks there is a definate pinching at one end of the spore - the thing that I described as a "nipple" in my initial description.

Can anyone make light of my observation -a spore 5x11um long? Can someone confirm these as subs. Also how do you count basidiomycota (is that the thing I want?) - I did see a cells with multiple smaller cells within them - but there definately more than four.

As you can see I'm pretty new to this side of the business. :laugh:


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Re: Unusual Looking "Subs" ID request NZ [Re: Feelers]
    #5693992 - 05/31/06 09:05 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Hi feelers.
From what you have described I think you have a Psilocybe subaeruginosa varient.
Would you say that the cystidia are bowling pin shaped?
Also I think what you called a nipple on those spores is the apical pore, not positive though?
Btw no worries about the pic, I think that one is of the strange pouch like sub varient I found.
Are the gills white?
inski.


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Re: Unusual Looking "Subs" ID request NZ [Re: inski]
    #5695083 - 05/31/06 04:17 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah bowling pin shaped would be a good description. The microscope couldn't focus well enough to get a good look - (thus the nipple description) :laugh: but I imagine that is the apical pore.

Where you get your info on the spore sizes etc from? I found this a really interesting thing to do.
The gills were a kind of bluey white.

The weird thing is there is one part of my patch (its a very big patch) and there is one specific ground covering bush that these ones grow out of (about 30x30cm). I did actually find a much more albino one slight hint of greenish blue growing there also . It didnt bruise blue so I thought it wasnt a sub.
I'll be checking for more - they are really really different macroscopically to the other subs. There werent a lot of spores around in my slide either - less than 20 per area visible at 100x maybe.


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Re: Unusual Looking "Subs" ID request NZ [Re: Feelers]
    #5697988 - 06/01/06 03:38 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

You can do a search for the New Zealand Journal of Botany, go to the year 1995 and find Johnston and Buchanan's article The genus Psilocybe (Agaricales) in New Zealand.
I've found some very different looking sub variations before similar to what you have!! do you have any way of having a look with a scope that focuses better?
btw could you get a pic of this ground cover they grow from?
inski.


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Re: Unusual Looking "Subs" ID request NZ [Re: inski]
    #5698038 - 06/01/06 03:47 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Ill do my best - I dont have a camera so I'll have to borrow one for the ground cover shot. What should I be looking for under the scope, is 1000x not enough?(just to avoid confusion above when I said 100x I was just giving an indication of how few spores were present)
How accurate are the spore measurements when say mentioned on websites ect? Is it give or take a few um?

I might have that albino one floating around in a bag in my room lol. I'll have a dig for it.


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Re: Unusual Looking "Subs" ID request NZ [Re: Feelers]
    #5698208 - 06/01/06 04:50 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Just read your post again, you say you made measurements of the spores and they were within the sizes of subs and libs? if so I'd say they are probably a sub varient but I think there's a few more unknowns in NZ than previously suspected! Hope you can figure it out.
inski.


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Re: Unusual Looking "Subs" ID request NZ [Re: inski]
    #5705476 - 06/02/06 10:58 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Well went back today and found another 2 "albino" shrooms. These actually looked like the ones in the first post I made, but over time they change to this funny white/light cream colour.

As you can see - I included a normal sub I picked from nearby for comparison.







They have really long stalks - and not because they were growing out of anything, these were just on loose bark, not the ground shrub as last time - but very close to it.


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