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OfflinejustAkid
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Registered: 11/05/05
Posts: 323
Loc: The Present
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
How is God related?
    #5678844 - 05/26/06 11:04 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

When I think about this world and my place here and I try to see how a God might be tied in things, I get confused.

Why do we think our consciousness could relate to God?

Surely we are wonderful, creative, loving creatures, but why should we think ourselves as deserving of eternity?

Why should God even take part in this?

I think my questions make me a skeptic, possibly a diest or a maybe an agnostic.


--------------------
Trust thyself.


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Invisibledblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
Re: How is God related? [Re: justAkid]
    #5678860 - 05/26/06 11:08 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

When I think about this world and my place here and I try to see how a God might be tied in things, I get confused.

Confusion is often a side effect of excessive thinking :wink:

Surely we are wonderful, creative, loving creatures, but why should we think ourselves as deserving of eternity?

There's really nothing else aside from eternity. How could there be?

Why should God even take part in this?

Not even God knows.

I think my questions make me a skeptic, possibly a diest or a maybe an agnostic.

Labels are bad, mmmkay?

Really you can call yourself whatever you want, but you are what you are, and what you are is far greater than a mere 'diest' or 'agnostic'.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: How is God related? [Re: justAkid]
    #5679552 - 05/27/06 03:34 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Drop the idea of God and things just start to fall into place. :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: How is God related? [Re: Icelander]
    #5679645 - 05/27/06 05:38 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Exactly, open your senses and your mind, directly perceive reality for what it is, and all will be well and all will be understood. :wink:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineBasilides
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Posts: 7,059
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Re: How is God related? [Re: justAkid]
    #5679821 - 05/27/06 08:34 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Consciousness is essentially a spark of "god stuff", bits of eternity concealed within temporal form. You ask how can consciousness can relate to God. How does a tide puddle relate to the Ocean?


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Posts: 37,532
Re: How is God related? [Re: Basilides]
    #5679862 - 05/27/06 08:57 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

that a pattern matches suggests significance, even if there is no other connection than simmilarity.
fractal geometry shows a kind of natural resonance between small pattern and larger composite pattern.
this kind of sympathetic formation may help
more than that I can't see much to say about a larger unit of consciousness.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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Invisiblesleepy
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Re: How is God related? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #5680494 - 05/27/06 01:43 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

God is the creator. like, hes not taking part, hes taking ALL. Vedanta says "God alone is real" all else is unreal.

"When I think about this world and my place here and I try to see how a God might be tied in things, I get confused."

thats cuz you are in the world and thinking of God. the "things" are unreal. God is. things are not. (things don't exist) the things you see are really God (no-thing)! and seeing is God, and the seer and seen is God and the seeing seer and seen is all One (GOD)!


Edited by sleepy (05/27/06 01:44 PM)


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: How is God related? [Re: sleepy]
    #5680880 - 05/27/06 04:04 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

sleepy said:
God is the creator. like, hes not taking part, hes taking ALL.  Vedanta says "God alone is real" all else is unreal. 




Then the term "god" and the concept thereof is completely unnecessary. Sure, define god as reality. Doing so is redundant, as reality is reality. Thus, employing an empty concept to represent something that is already well defined is only going to further seperate oneself from their direct knowing of reality.

Thus, thinking about God seperates oneself from God. :lol:

Honestly, we have no manner in which we can possibly know anything concerning the creation of the universe. We can theorize, but there will always be unknown. A statement such as "god is the creator" is useless.

Quote:


the "things" are unreal.  God is.  things are not. (things don't exist)




Incorrect. Existance exists. The nature of existance is such that it exists. If you accept the notion of existance (it is self evident if you are aware), then you thereby agree that form exists, that form is form, regardless if it only exists in relationship to the formless.

Quote:


  the things you see are really God (no-thing)! and seeing is God, and the seer and seen is God and the seeing seer and seen is all One (GOD)!




Exactly, all aspects of reality are reality. Its an interesting realization (its simple, but hard to truly come by :wink:), but it is simply reality, not "god".


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineTelepylus
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Re: How is God related? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5681014 - 05/27/06 04:51 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

First of all it must be understood that there is only one thing in the universe: Consciousness.

What is consciousness?
Consciousness is built of a primordial trinity of force: The Point, The Sphere, and the Spiral Force.

This trinity of force begins as a sub-atomic level(spirit), unites to lose itself into a new thing, atoms, the periodic table of elements(matter), next atoms unite to lose themselves in a third thing, molecules. Next these unite to lose themselves into a third thing, a new level, DNA (life), and next outward we have the cosmos, stellar bodies.

so, in short, consciousness is built of a trinity of force.
it extends through the 5 levels i just mentioned (from human perspective at least)
and it's as simple as that

now it should be understood that this progression isn't linear
the 5 levels come into play simultaneously, and they all uphold each other.
basically your consciousness is a cell of God Consciousness, and you uphold the creation of the universe with your thoughts.
all there really is is thoughts.

what is God?
God is just Love, union, the force that combines this and that.
like light and dark.

Time=Male
Space=Female
Consciousness=Child (genderlessness)

when your own consciousness becomes honest with what it really is, that is when Union with God happens.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: How is God related? [Re: Telepylus]
    #5681044 - 05/27/06 05:06 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Interesting, but I'm not sure how much of that theory is validated by simple, direct perception of reality. :grin:

A mind that is conscious is likely to be prone to identifying consciousness as reality, or "as all there is", simply due to the fact that the mind would not be provided with an experience of reality without consciousness.

No consciousness, no experience of reality, thus, no consciousness, no reality? :shrug:

Not much that can be observed that will provide for an understanding into the nature of the matter, but consensus amongst individuals who maintain a level of consciousness is that reality exists independantly of consciousness, and that consciousness has been produced as a result of reality.

Perhaps it is physical reality that is the formless, and consciousness that is the form. Makes sense to me. :grin: :mushroom2:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineGomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
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Re: How is God related? [Re: justAkid]
    #5681716 - 05/27/06 09:33 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

God = The sum of all sums? :p


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Invisiblesleepy
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Re: How is God related? [Re: Gomp]
    #5681942 - 05/27/06 10:42 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Incorrect. Existance exists. The nature of existance is such that it exists"""

yeah but existence is not a thing
existance is SAT
CHIT is AWARENESS
ANANDA IS BLISS

the state of realization is SAT CHIT ANANDA
Existance Knowledge(not knowledge of any "thing") Bliss

form is able to be comprehended
thus it is not GOD purely  "then you thereby agree that form exists"

it exists as long as the mind

you are right thoughts are separate
this is all unreal, everything
what i just said is unreal
this is real
this is real
no
THAT is real

if you know, then u dont
the reason is YOU
you know------- minus the "you" equals GOD

we all know this anyway  :rockon:


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Invisiblesleepy
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Re: How is God related? [Re: sleepy]
    #5681947 - 05/27/06 10:44 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

in case u dont know this is the BEST BOOK EVER almost, it rocks my world anyway

http://www.crystalclarity.com/yogananda/chap1.html

at least check the chapter titles, they will make you read furthier radness


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OfflineDeviate
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Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: How is God related? [Re: Icelander]
    #5685095 - 05/28/06 11:21 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Drop the idea of God and things just start to fall into place. :mushroom2:




untrue, whether i think with or without such a concept things didn't fall into place any easier.


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OfflineDeviate
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Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: How is God related? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5685126 - 05/28/06 11:30 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:


Then the term "god" and the concept thereof is completely unnecessary. Sure, define god as reality. Doing so is redundant, as reality is reality. Thus, employing an empty concept to represent something that is already well defined is only going to further seperate oneself from their direct knowing of reality.
Thus, thinking about God seperates oneself from God.




God is used in a similar sense as the word Tao. both can take one either closer to or further away from the state of direct knowledge of reality. to say they only take one away is ignorant. it seems you dont understand the way it is being used because it is not redundunt.
Quote:


Incorrect. Existance exists. The nature of existance is such that it exists. If you accept the notion of existance (it is self evident if you are aware), then you thereby agree that form exists, that form is form, regardless if it only exists in relationship to the formless.




how does that refute the statement it was in reply to? you're ignoring context. picture a television set, of course the pictures on the screen are real. such is self-evident. however, there are some people who may not recognize that what they are looking at is a combination of pixels, hence the statement that its unreal.


Edited by Deviate (05/29/06 01:00 AM)


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: How is God related? [Re: Deviate]
    #5685791 - 05/29/06 08:24 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
God is used in a similar sense as the word Tao.  both can take one either closer to or further away from the state of direct knowledge of reality. to say they only take one away is ignorant. it seems  you dont understand the way it is being used because it is not redundunt.




"God" is utilized in a great multitude of senses, which further underscores its ineffectiveness in representing any actual concept.

I propose to you that the term "reality" is the summation of this entire, strange phenomenon... existance, the universe, everything. Reality represents everything. Using a term such as "god" is not going to go any further, and it will not represent anything that reality is incapable of doing.

Operating with a conception of God will further seperate oneself from a state of directly perceiving and thus realizing reality for what it is, the manner in which it presents itself to you as the result of your interaction with it, the result of your interaction as it.

"That tree, that is God! You are God! I am God! We are all God! God is reality!" :rolleyes:

Um, no. That tree is that tree, and you are you. I am I. We are all we, and reality is reality. Reality simply is. To say that reality is reality, but that God is reality is redundant. No aspect of "god" is distinct from that of reality, thus, using the term is redundant.

Quote:


how does that refute the statement it was in reply to? you're ignoring context. picture a television set, of course the pictures on the screen are real. such is self-evident. however, there are some people who may not recognize that what they are looking at is a combination of pixels, hence the statement that its unreal. 




Existance exists in the form in which it exists. Reality and that which has form isn't "unreal" simply because you formed misperceptions of its nature.

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineBasilides
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Posts: 7,059
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Re: How is God related? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5685803 - 05/29/06 08:31 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Existence is "real" but it's not the only "real". It is only sensory reality - there are realities beyond sense data.


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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Offlineloopin20
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Re: How is God related? [Re: justAkid]
    #5685812 - 05/29/06 08:35 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

When you understand that you are a child of God and have the potential to become like God, then you know your relation to God and why God has an interest in us.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: How is God related? [Re: Deviate]
    #5685882 - 05/29/06 09:00 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Drop the idea of God and things just start to fall into place. :mushroom2:




untrue, whether i think with or without such a concept things didn't fall into place any easier.




That's because you're trying to understand the infinite with finite understanding. Things fall into place when you begin to realize that the questions you are asking may not be the most important ones.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibledblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
Re: How is God related? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5685943 - 05/29/06 09:42 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Not from self, not from other,
Not from both, nor without cause:
Things do not arise
At any place, at any time.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa

Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 17,235
Re: How is God related? [Re: justAkid]
    #5685971 - 05/29/06 10:03 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Eyeless in the morning sun you were
Pale and mild
A modern girl
Taken with thought still prone to care
Making tea
In your underwear
You went out in the yard to find
Something to eat
And clear your mind
And something bad inside me went away

Quaking leaves and broken light
Shifting skin
The coming night
The bearers of all good things arrive
Climb inside us
Twist and cry
A kiss on your molten eyes
Myriad lives
Like blades of grass
Yet to be realized
Bow as they pass

They are cold
Still
Waiting in the
Ether to
Form
Feel
Kill
Propogate
Only to die

They are cold
Still
Waiting in the
Ether to
Form
Feel
Kill
Propogate
Only to die
Dissolve magically
Absurdly
They'll end
Leave
Dissipate
Coldly and
Strangely
Return


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: How is God related? [Re: Basilides]
    #5686312 - 05/29/06 12:42 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Perhaps we can see it/him/her all the time, but our mind is not evolved enough (through the 'shock of lasting linear left brain male dominance history) to directly perceive, like our ancestors did and do.
Sometimes, less 'linear' knowledge can be 'more' understanding of the parallel/associated processes in reality.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: How is God related? [Re: Basilides]
    #5686421 - 05/29/06 01:09 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Basilides said:
Existence is "real" but it's not the only "real". It is only sensory reality - there are realities beyond sense data.




There is but one reality. A statement that "existence is real, but its not the only real" doesn't make sense from my perspective, as I see existence as being all that exists, in whatever form or to whatever degree it exists.

I'm intrigued as to what definiton of the word "existence" you are using. I was to understand that its a question of existence or nonexistence.... so, then, how could there exist more than what exists? :wtf:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa

Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 17,235
Re: How is God related? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5686446 - 05/29/06 01:14 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

i would answer that with this Mu or Wu


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: How is God related? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5686617 - 05/29/06 02:00 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

We may perceive parallel/associated processes as them, but we may not see the cause of their connections. Even science uses 'models' for explanation, not the real stuff !
With our linear view of cause and effect and our preconditioned expectations, we are about to lose much of the 'total' view of reality, which recognizes some connections to events, before we know the cause of it.
This ability is essential for our spirit to evolve and to research into the material (and spiritual) realm.

We have to find the questions to the answers first.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


Edited by BlueCoyote (05/29/06 02:07 PM)


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OfflineDeviate
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Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: How is God related? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5687022 - 05/29/06 03:41 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Quote:

Deviate said:
God is used in a similar sense as the word Tao.  both can take one either closer to or further away from the state of direct knowledge of reality. to say they only take one away is ignorant. it seems  you dont understand the way it is being used because it is not redundunt.




"God" is utilized in a great multitude of senses, which further underscores its ineffectiveness in representing any actual concept.

I propose to you that the term "reality" is the summation of this entire, strange phenomenon... existance, the universe, everything. Reality represents everything. Using a term such as "god" is not going to go any further, and it will not represent anything that reality is incapable of doing.

Operating with a conception of God will further seperate oneself from a state of directly perceiving and thus realizing reality for what it is, the manner in which it presents itself to you as the result of your interaction with it, the result of your interaction as it.

"That tree, that is God! You are God! I am God! We are all God! God is reality!" :rolleyes:

Um, no. That tree is that tree, and you are you. I am I. We are all we, and reality is reality. Reality simply is. To say that reality is reality, but that God is reality is redundant. No aspect of "god" is distinct from that of reality, thus, using the term is redundant.

Quote:


how does that refute the statement it was in reply to? you're ignoring context. picture a television set, of course the pictures on the screen are real. such is self-evident. however, there are some people who may not recognize that what they are looking at is a combination of pixels, hence the statement that its unreal. 




Existance exists in the form in which it exists. Reality and that which has form isn't "unreal" simply because you formed misperceptions of its nature.

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:





you're still missing the point. context. to someone who sees a rope in the twilight and believes it to be a snake, the snake is unreal and yet there is still a real peice of rope. you haven't even defined what you mean by real. is sherlock holmes real? he is a real famous fictional character but an unreal person. your statements about god are also wrong, while there is certainly overlap between the terms god and reality, they are not interchangeable and can refer to different aspects/angles of understanding when used in the right context.


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: How is God related? [Re: Deviate]
    #5687031 - 05/29/06 03:43 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:


That's because you're trying to understand the infinite with finite understanding. Things fall into place when you begin to realize that the questions you are asking may not be the most important ones.






what questions am i asking?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: How is God related? [Re: Deviate]
    #5687455 - 05/29/06 05:18 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Sorry thought you were the origional poster.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: How is God related? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5687721 - 05/29/06 06:17 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

The thing about sense data-based conclusions of "reality" is that it's short-sighted and myopic. What's beyond the borders of "existence"?


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"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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