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OfflineCherk
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poem for me
    #5677875 - 05/26/06 05:57 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

The only thing worth touching
is that which you cannot touch
The only thing worth hearing
is that which you cannot hear
The only thing worth smelling
is that which you cannot smell
The only thing worth tasting
is that which you cannot taste
The only thing worth seeing
is that which cannot be seen


The only thing worth satisfying
is that which you cannot satisfy


Try to satisfy what cannot be satisfied
by trying to touch, hear, smell, taste, and see what cannot be touched, heard, smelled, tasted, or seen
suffer endlessly

Let that which cannot be satisfied satisfy you
Let that which cannot be touched, heard, smelled, tasted, or seen touch hear, smell, taste, and see you


--------------------
I have considered such matters.

SIKE


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OfflinethirdEYEviewe
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Registered: 01/22/06
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Re: poem for me [Re: Cherk]
    #5677923 - 05/26/06 06:11 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

You have a very grim perspective on life.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: poem for me [Re: thirdEYEviewe]
    #5677932 - 05/26/06 06:13 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I was sort of thinking the same thing.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineCherk
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Re: poem for me [Re: thirdEYEviewe]
    #5677979 - 05/26/06 06:37 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

What is my perspective on life?


--------------------
I have considered such matters.

SIKE


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: poem for me [Re: Cherk]
    #5677986 - 05/26/06 06:39 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

That all desire causes suffering?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineCherk
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Re: poem for me [Re: Icelander]
    #5678015 - 05/26/06 06:53 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

That is a true statement. Can you refute it?


We as humans perceive suffering to be of varying degrees, when in fact all suffering is suffering. The perceived difference arises from attachment to what or who is suffering. Losing your leg to a tractor or waking up the next morning with a sore stomach from laughing to hard the night before are both examples of suffering.

I imagine most people are far more attached to being able to walk with two legs vs being able to laugh for extended periods of time without getting a sore stomach.


--------------------
I have considered such matters.

SIKE


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: poem for me [Re: Cherk]
    #5678024 - 05/26/06 06:56 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Yes I can refute it. It is not desire that causes suffering. It is our attachment to that desire. Either obtaining it or keeping it.

I may desire a beautiful woman but if I cannot have her and can accept that then there is no suffering. But if I obcess over her and cannot accept that she will never be mine then I will suffer.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinesoulcircus
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Re: poem for me *DELETED* [Re: Icelander]
    #5680109 - 05/27/06 10:57 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Post deleted by soulcircus

Reason for deletion: .



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InvisibleLakefingers

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Re: poem for me [Re: soulcircus]
    #5680141 - 05/27/06 11:07 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

What's grim is the deficiency that is inherent in your perspective, Smoker for Peace. The lack makes life a sickness.

...thinking of the Matrix:
The only choice worth making, is the one that won't make any difference;
the only choice to be made, is no choice at all.


Whether the message about Suffering is true or not is not interesting. What is interesting is that this insight incites a great neurosis in many people that discover it -- such a neurosis that they find a moral incentive to hang themselves up on it (suffering); they try to solve, reduce, deny, or even, teach it.


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OfflineCherk
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Re: poem for me [Re: Lakefingers]
    #5683227 - 05/28/06 12:02 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

If not to get rid of, what is the purpose of suffering?


--------------------
I have considered such matters.

SIKE


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Invisiblepsyka
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Re: poem for me [Re: Cherk]
    #5683280 - 05/28/06 12:22 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Its an oppurtunity to learn to better yourself. A driving force for improvement.



--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.



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OfflineCherk
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Re: poem for me [Re: psyka]
    #5683352 - 05/28/06 12:54 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Suffering is a driving force but when offered to a tornado it will be picked back up and redistributed in the atmosophere. Some of the suffering will be lighy enough to escape the gravity of earth but some will still fall back to earth.

But when suffering is offered to fire all is consumed and energy is distributed back to the surroundings where it came from. When the flames are hot enough suffering is a clean burning fuel that leaves no ash or soot.


--------------------
I have considered such matters.

SIKE


Edited by Smoker For Peace (05/28/06 01:05 PM)


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OfflineCherk
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Re: poem for me [Re: Icelander]
    #5683377 - 05/28/06 01:03 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Yes I can refute it. It is not desire that causes suffering. It is our attachment to that desire. Either obtaining it or keeping it.

I may desire a beautiful woman but if I cannot have her and can accept that then there is no suffering. But if I obcess over her and cannot accept that she will never be mine then I will suffer.




Yes, but that is a hard path to walk with no end in this life time. Having a desire yet not satisfying it creates a long chain of 1010101 binary code where one must have exact precesion to escape suffering. Our energy levels decide how precisely we can manage this code, but at the end of this path suffering is inevitable, as fire cannot over power fire, it can only join until there is no distinction betwee the two fires. This is the essence of bhakti yoga.


--------------------
I have considered such matters.

SIKE


Edited by Smoker For Peace (05/28/06 01:05 PM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: poem for me [Re: Cherk]
    #5683384 - 05/28/06 01:06 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

It may be hard but I have been teaching myself to walk it with some success. If I can do it then you can. Check out Rational Emotive Therapy by Albert Ellis or The Handbook to Higher Consciousness by Ken Keyes.

Nothing is better than freeing yourself from addictive behaviors.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineCherk
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Re: poem for me [Re: Icelander]
    #5683396 - 05/28/06 01:11 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

People often times follow this binary code out so far that eventually it dissolves into a sea of comfort.  This becomes easier and easier as you make progress in perceiving that all is one, but is still an addictive behavior :wink:


--------------------
I have considered such matters.

SIKE


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: poem for me [Re: Cherk]
    #5683405 - 05/28/06 01:16 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I think you misunderstand the concept.

The idea is not to repeatedly desire, suppress, desire, suppress, in an endless "binary code" of attachment. Instead, you stop on the "zero," or sense of lack, and rationally consider this desire.

If it is both possible and beneficial to fulfill this desire, then no suffering is experienced. If it is either impossible or detrimental to fulfill this desire, you may decide to let it go for your own benefit.


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OfflineCherk
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Re: poem for me [Re: Veritas]
    #5683429 - 05/28/06 01:32 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Yes, that is the next logical step to ending cyclic existence. This process leads to the realization that all desire is the same. Then rationality becomes a tool for making spiritual progress rather than comforting the boundries of your sense of self.

It is true that your suffering will dissolve if stopping on "the zero" produces no negative effects. But like offering your suffering to a tornado, some will dissolve completely and some will fall back to earth. You will experience the resurfacing of this suffering as a force keeping you from total self-realization

Surrender/belief in god is all there is if you wish to end suffering.


--------------------
I have considered such matters.

SIKE


Edited by Smoker For Peace (05/28/06 01:33 PM)


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OfflineCherk
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Re: poem for me [Re: Cherk]
    #5683440 - 05/28/06 01:39 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

We must face our fears with absolute courage and ferociousness. The lions guarding our inner kingdom only attack those on the outside.


--------------------
I have considered such matters.

SIKE


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: poem for me [Re: Cherk]
    #5683444 - 05/28/06 01:41 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

It is true that your suffering will dissolve if stopping on "the zero" produces no negative effects.




What I am saying is that suffering is not the direct result of desire.  Another step must occur before the cyclic dance begins: formation of a belief that you must fulfill your desire.  This is what produces negative effects, not the desire itself. 

When our living is unconscious, this in-between step may pass unnoticed, but even a small sharpening of awareness can create a "pause" between

I WANT THAT and

I MUST HAVE IT OR I WILL SUFFER.  :heart:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: poem for me [Re: Cherk]
    #5683469 - 05/28/06 01:57 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Surrender/belief in god is all there is if you wish to end suffering.

I don't think this has anything at all to do with this subject.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineCherk
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Re: poem for me [Re: Veritas]
    #5683511 - 05/28/06 02:25 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
Quote:

It is true that your suffering will dissolve if stopping on "the zero" produces no negative effects.




What I am saying is that suffering is not the direct result of desire.  Another step must occur before the cyclic dance begins: formation of a belief that you must fulfill your desire.  This is what produces negative effects, not the desire itself. 

When our living is unconscious, this in-between step may pass unnoticed, but even a small sharpening of awareness can create a "pause" between

I WANT THAT and

I MUST HAVE IT OR I WILL SUFFER.  :heart:




Desire is all we are.  We go through cyclic existence until we no longer desire anything outside of self. 

You cannot have a body before you desire to have a body.  You cannot suffer before there is the desire to suffer.  You cannot have the belief that suffering comes from unfulfilled desires until you desire to have the belief that suffering comes from unfulfilled desires.  You cannot desire until you have the desire to desire. 

We are volition.

I AM THAT WANT.


--------------------
I have considered such matters.

SIKE


Edited by Smoker For Peace (05/28/06 02:32 PM)


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