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InvisibleUnifloo
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when are you an alcoholic?
    #5676210 - 05/26/06 08:04 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Does going out on average five nights a week and drinking on average
five+ pints each time make you an alco?


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Offlineloopin20
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Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: Unifloo]
    #5676212 - 05/26/06 08:06 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

It doesn't make me an alcoholic cause I don't do it. Besides, I'm an alcoholic anyway. It could make you one, but it doesn't mean you are one now.


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InvisibleCherryBomM
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Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: loopin20]
    #5676214 - 05/26/06 08:06 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

You you can't get up in the morning to go to work, you're an alcoholic.


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InvisibleUnifloo
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Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: loopin20]
    #5676221 - 05/26/06 08:10 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I missed work today, actually I havent been in on a friday in weeks


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Offlineloopin20
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Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: Unifloo]
    #5676231 - 05/26/06 08:12 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

You're probably alcoholic then. When alcohol starts messing with your daily routine and your life, alcohol has control. You've lost the power.


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OfflinePurpleKush
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Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: Unifloo]
    #5676234 - 05/26/06 08:13 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

is that a pit bull hangin out your window? the pic is small i cant really tell


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InvisibleUnifloo
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Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: loopin20]
    #5676248 - 05/26/06 08:18 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Hmmmmm, maybe I should start saying no to nights out. Its not the alcohol that gets me out the door but the socialising, alcohol just kinda goes hand in hand with that. My liver hates me


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InvisibleUnifloo
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Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: PurpleKush]
    #5676256 - 05/26/06 08:20 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

It seems like a pit bull - ??? cross. The point is the dog is cool.
He knows what he's doin


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OfflinePurpleKush
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Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: Unifloo]
    #5676267 - 05/26/06 08:25 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

he looks like a happy dog.  :thumbup:


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InvisibleUnifloo
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Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: Unifloo]
    #5676273 - 05/26/06 08:30 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Theres something about seeing dogs with their heads out car windows
that always puts a smile on my face. Kinda like that song "bike"
by pink floyd


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InvisibleKrishna
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Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: Unifloo]
    #5676341 - 05/26/06 08:57 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

+1 for functional alcoholism!


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: CherryBom]
    #5676347 - 05/26/06 08:59 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

CherryBom said:
You you can't get up in the morning to go to work, you're an alcoholic.




not true, my step father drank 1.5 cases of beer per day, he never missed a day
and was often early for work, he and his co-workers even drank at work.


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InvisibleCherryBomM
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Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5676354 - 05/26/06 09:03 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Well then, he never missed a day. That's totally different then sleeping in cuz you're hung like a champ, you know?


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Invisiblevinsue
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Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5676355 - 05/26/06 09:03 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I'd have to drink at work to drink 1.5 cases of beer per day... :cheers:


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"All mushrooms are edible; but some only once." Croatian proverb. BTW ...
  Have You Rated Ythans Mom Yet ?? ... :taser:  ... HERE'S HOW ... (be nice) .  :mod: ... :peace:


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InvisibleKrishna
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Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5676358 - 05/26/06 09:04 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

i know a lot of old danish men who for the past 30 some years have gotten hammered every night as soon as the workday is finished. they say something like 70% of that country technically has functional alcoholism


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Offlineloopin20
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Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: Krishna]
    #5676359 - 05/26/06 09:05 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I use to keep a fifth of vodka in my desk drawer and work and I'd hit on it throughout the day. Think I'm an alcoholic?


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: CherryBom]
    #5676361 - 05/26/06 09:08 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

CherryBom said:
Well then, he never missed a day. That's totally different then sleeping in cuz you're hung like a champ, you know?




waking up hung over and missing work is what drunks do, alcoholics are professionals... few real alcoholics wake up with a hang over, they already
have a very high BAC so it doesnt affect them the same way

I worked with my stepdad for a few months, seems that everyone at the plant was missing a few parts, mostly fingers...


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Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: loopin20]
    #5676363 - 05/26/06 09:09 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

my new brother in law got me a flask with my name engraved on it for being a groomsman.  i also got a personalized keychain and money clip, it kicks ass. 

i should start bringing crown to work with me.  shit...i should start bringing crown everywhere :guinness:


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OfflineAKSE
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Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: PurpleKush]
    #5676374 - 05/26/06 09:12 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

If you feel the need to drink every day, or do, then you are an alcoholic I'de say.


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OfflinePurpleKush
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Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: AKSE]
    #5676376 - 05/26/06 09:13 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

alchohol is a social lubricant.


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InvisibleOneMoreRobot3021
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Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: AKSE]
    #5676378 - 05/26/06 09:14 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

AKSE said:
If you feel the need to drink every day




Yes, feel the *need

Quote:

or do




No - it's not unhealthy at all to consume alcohol every single day.


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Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.

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Offlinehobbitxkillyou
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Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5676382 - 05/26/06 09:15 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I don't want to sound like a professor on the subject, but it doesn't seem like any of you guys have seen true alcoholism. My best friend's mother had it. She was a stay at home mom and the nicest lady in the world. Alcoholism completely destroyed her life. She went to some of the best clinics in the US (their family was pretty rich) and always came back o.k., but then started drinking again after some time.

It started out where it wasn't too noticable (functional alcoholism as you guys have been calling it). Then the last few years she was a mess, I won't go into details. Just know that he was my best friend and we were always together, so I saw alot. The story ends with her getting into a car accident and passing away.

Point being, real alcoholism is nothing to be proud of or joke about. It's a horrible disease that ruins lives.


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When the going gets wierd, the wierd turn pro.

-H. S. Thompson


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Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: hobbitxkillyou]
    #5676387 - 05/26/06 09:18 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

just because she was an extreme case, that doesn't mean other people haven't seen real alchoholism.

and if someone can't help themselves from drinking theirself into an early grave, that's their own fault. they won't get any reverance from me.


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Edited by PurpleKush (05/26/06 09:19 AM)


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Invisiblerod
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Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: Unifloo]
    #5676391 - 05/26/06 09:19 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

So, your going out partying, with your mates, and having a little
suds, thats not being a alcoholic, thats being a social person.

Keep up the good work. :chugbeer:


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Offlineloopin20
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Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: PurpleKush]
    #5676393 - 05/26/06 09:21 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I am a "real alcoholic". I can joke about it.


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OfflinePurpleKush
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Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: loopin20]
    #5676404 - 05/26/06 09:24 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

congratulations


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OfflineAninator
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Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: PurpleKush]
    #5676412 - 05/26/06 09:29 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

sign's of alchoholism usually for me involve well a)when people lie about how much they drink and how often them drink b) when they get blackout drunk everytime they drink.


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Offlinehobbitxkillyou
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Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: PurpleKush]
    #5676414 - 05/26/06 09:31 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I'm sure some people here are familiar with it. However, to say "I go to a bar and drink beer every night, I'm an alcoholic" is rediculous.

It's when you get to the point where you drink all day long, disregard most everything else (or jumble priorities up). It's unfortunate, but her brain just wouldn't let her go without alcohol. It really is a disease of the mind. And before anyone says "the mind can be overcome" or something like that...don't bother. All of us here know the mind works in very odd ways and can be diseased like that.

Granted, it can be overcome with willpower in the beginning, but once it gets ahold (and I think alcoholism was a problem in her family) it's extremely hard to break it.

Just my opinion from what I've experianced.


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When the going gets wierd, the wierd turn pro.

-H. S. Thompson


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OfflineAKSE
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Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #5676415 - 05/26/06 09:31 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

OneMoreRobot3021 said:
Quote:

AKSE said:
If you feel the need to drink every day




Yes, feel the *need

Quote:

or do




No - it's not unhealthy at all to consume alcohol every single day.




Maybe like Red Wine, but I'm sure it cant be good on your liver to be exposed to moderate - high levels of hard alcohol or beer so frequently (5/7 days a week or everday)


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: hobbitxkillyou]
    #5676416 - 05/26/06 09:32 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

hobbitxkillyou said:
I don't want to sound like a professor on the subject, but it doesn't seem like any of you guys have seen true alcoholism.




I've seen it with my step father, on a similar note, a friend of mine was a drunk,
he drank as much as my step dad and did so every day, he'd polish off a 12 pack
on his own in about 3 hours, one day he decided to stop, and did, he had no ill
effects, no DTs or withdrawal of any sort. it almost killed my step father 2 of
the times he was sentanced to jail for the DUIs he recieved.

I grew up around alcoholics and drunks, at 14, I was driving the peckerwood to
and from the bars, I dont drink often because I have seen alcoholism


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: AKSE]
    #5676419 - 05/26/06 09:33 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

AKSE said:
Maybe like Red Wine, but I'm sure it cant be good on your liver to be exposed to moderate - high levels of hard alcohol or beer so frequently (5/7 days a week or everday)




beer and wine are healthy in moderation, hard liquor, not so good, abuse/over use of anything isnt good for you.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5676423 - 05/26/06 09:38 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

For me.. I need to start drinking more. I'm too tense all the time.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: Shroomism]
    #5676425 - 05/26/06 09:39 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

drinking wont fix that, choking the shit out of people will, why you think I'm so relaxed, theres a pile of bodies behind the outhouse  :smirk:


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Offlinehobbitxkillyou
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Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5676429 - 05/26/06 09:41 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

hobbitxkillyou said:
I don't want to sound like a professor on the subject, but it doesn't seem like any of you guys have seen true alcoholism.




I've seen it with my step father, on a similar note, a friend of mine was a drunk,
he drank as much as my step dad and did so every day, he'd polish off a 12 pack
on his own in about 3 hours, one day he decided to stop, and did, he had no ill
effects, no DTs or withdrawal of any sort. it almost killed my step father 2 of
the times he was sentanced to jail for the DUIs he recieved.

I grew up around alcoholics and drunks, at 14, I was driving the peckerwood to
and from the bars, I dont drink often because I have seen alcoholism




I corrected myself. I'm sure others like you have seen it. But I doubt many have seen it get that bad and had it effect them personally. If you have, then what I've said doesn't pertain to you, easy as that.


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When the going gets wierd, the wierd turn pro.

-H. S. Thompson


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: hobbitxkillyou]
    #5676434 - 05/26/06 09:44 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah I've seen what alcoholism can do to people I care about. It's not pretty. At all. From logical nice person to disgusting belligerent monster in no time flat. Then they either die from liver failure at the age of 20, or piss themselves at the age of 46.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: Shroomism]
    #5676439 - 05/26/06 09:48 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

my step dad has managed to land himself in prison for the remainder of his life
I visited him about 20 years ago, all he talked about was getting out and
drinking, when he was released, thats what he did, showed up drunk for another DUI
hearing and back in prison... he's fucked and dumb


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Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5676442 - 05/26/06 09:50 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah alcoholism makes you dumb too


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: Shroomism]
    #5676459 - 05/26/06 09:55 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I think he started that way, just got worse as the drinking increased


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Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: Shroomism]
    #5676471 - 05/26/06 10:01 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

As far as alcoholism being a "disease of the mind"... it's not. That's just some bullshit AA propaganda to make people believe they aren't in control of their actions. Diabetes, hypertension, and malignant tumors are "diseases". Alcoholism requires extended usage through an act of will. Since the word addiction is defined as a volitional act and the relationship between the mind and the body is unknown, it is inaccurate to state with certainty that alcoholism is a disease. The mind can't be sick.

The treatment industry also has a substantial economic investment in maintaining the disease concept. As long as alcoholism is considered a disease, medical insurance pays for treating it.

Many disease model spokespersons are recovered alcoholics and have an emotional investment in viewing themselves as helpless to their own behaviors. A majority of these people are seriously lacking in scientific backgrounds. They say scientific validity ''interferes with the process'' of helping people who need help and claim special qualification to help others.They perceive any challenge to the disease concept as ''a challenge to the validity of their own emotional ordeal and conversion to sobriety.''


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Offlinegregorio
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Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: Aninator]
    #5677756 - 05/26/06 05:13 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

AniNator said:
sign's of alchoholism usually for me involve well a)when people lie about how much they drink and how often them drink b) when they get blackout drunk everytime they drink.




If that starts happening there is cause for concern.

Also if you have 3 beers or so and then you can't stop until you get totaly shitfaced.

Bad things happen more often than not when you drink.


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Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: gregorio]
    #5677834 - 05/26/06 05:39 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Accept Jesus Christ as your savior and you won't be an alcoholic anymore.  :lol:

social drinking is fine IMO.  if it gets to be where you come home and drink alone (alone being even if people are there and you're the only one drinking, or if youre actually alone) all night.  social drinking is fine to me at least, because you're out doing something, working towards something productive(in some sense, anyway), and doing so with other people.  :thumbup:


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TACOS LIKE A MOTHERFUCKER


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Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: HeadTripVertigo]
    #5677843 - 05/26/06 05:43 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

When you wake up in the morning and say that you won't drink today...and then you do. Over and Over again...
Try to quit, and can't.
When you can't stop from getting shitfaced/blackout everytime you set out to have " a few drinks".
Peace


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: Shroomism]
    #5677856 - 05/26/06 05:51 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomism said:
As far as alcoholism being a "disease of the mind"... it's not.




I've argued that for many years, the reply I hear the most is "are you saying all those doctors are lying", why, yes, yes I am.


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OfflineHeadTripVertigo
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Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5677871 - 05/26/06 05:57 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Shroomism said:
As far as alcoholism being a "disease of the mind"... it's not.




I've argued that for many years, the reply I hear the most is "are you saying all those doctors are lying", why, yes, yes I am.



yeah that's all bullshit. calling it a disease is just a way for people to esca[e blame and responsibility for their actions. just like how they're calling obesity a disease now. It doesn't matter if your parents are fat fucks or if they drink a case of beer a day.

You don't have to. There's no genetic/hereditary anything that can make you stuff your face with cheeseburgers. Nothing can make you not active and not healthy. Nothing will make you drink till you vomit or pass out.

Except you.

This happens with everything. Columbine, they blamed the music, the parents, the movies, the games, etc. People want something to blame because most of them are pussies who want someone else to take responsibility for fucking up their own lives.


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TACOS LIKE A MOTHERFUCKER


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Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: HeadTripVertigo]
    #5677886 - 05/26/06 06:00 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

if you ever attend an AA or NA meeting you'll notice that they want you to accept
responsibility for thigs unless it was your past drug use, they also want you to
substitute one addiction for others, god and meetings being the dominant,
aparently they dont view nicotine or caffene as drugs because they encourage the
use of those


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OfflineNashbar
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Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5677905 - 05/26/06 06:05 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

do cravings make a person an alcoholic?


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Invisiblephalloidin

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Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: HeadTripVertigo]
    #5677914 - 05/26/06 06:09 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

would you tell a guy with AIDS that its not a disease because it was his fault for having unprotected sex. Hell, most all diseases can be attributed to peoples lifestyle choices. That doesn't make it any less of a disease. Some diseases are just more preventable than others.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: phalloidin]
    #5677937 - 05/26/06 06:15 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

READ

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1545723&dopt=Abstract

http://www.peele.net/faq/disease.html

http://www.schaler.net/1988oct25.html


Quote:

OBJECTIVE: To expound the argument that alcoholism (or "problem drinking") is not best regarded as a disease. SUMMARY: Excessive drinking can cause physical disease and involve physical dependence without therefore being a disease itself. The "disease concept" of alcoholism is not needed to justify medical intervention or a caring approach to those who are dependent on alcohol. There is a specific and a general version of the disease concept of alcoholism. The specific disease concept, associated mainly with the Fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous, is contradicted by empirical evidence and unhelpful for preventive and treatment responses to problem drinking, especially for the effort to detect and modify problem drinking at an early stage. The more general disease concept shares these disadvantages and is also ineffective in engendering sympathetic attitudes towards problem drinkers among the general public. It is more useful to view problem drinking as the result of the interaction between the individual's personality and the social context in which he or she has learned how to drink. CONCLUSION: For an effective and compassionate societal response to problem drinking, the disease model of alcoholism should be replaced by a social learning perspective.




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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: phalloidin]
    #5677942 - 05/26/06 06:19 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

MrTryptastic said:
would you tell a guy with AIDS that its not a disease because it was his fault for having unprotected sex. Hell, most all diseases can be attributed to peoples lifestyle choices. That doesn't make it any less of a disease. Some diseases are just more preventable than others.




Scorosis of the liver=disease
Alcoholism=choice in lifestyle
aquired immune deficincy syndrome=disease
homosexuality=choice in lifestyle

understand it yet?


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Invisiblephalloidin

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Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: Shroomism]
    #5677946 - 05/26/06 06:20 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I wasn't arguing that alcoholism is a disease. That much I'm not sure of. My point was that it's a flawed logic to say something isn't a disease just because a person brings it upon himself.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: phalloidin]
    #5677967 - 05/26/06 06:32 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

It's a total cop out to call alcoholism a disease. It's as much a disease as morbidly obese people gorging themselves on McDonalds everyday even though it's bad for them. It's not a disease.. it's an addiction. The fact that AA likes to promote this idea of it being a disease, as if these people are somehow completely helpless to control themselves and their actions.. is a fallacy and completely detracts from any source of personal responsibility.

I've known plenty of alcoholics. Hell.. I was one myself at the age of 15. It's not a disease. If anything, it's an obsessive 'escape' from reality and logic in the form of addictive behavior. The actual alcoholism doesn't appear from nowhere... it comes as a result of repeated, avoidable behavior.

Just to be clear let's see what the dictionary says a disease is:

disĀ·ease (d-zz)
n.

1. A pathological condition of a part, organ, or system of an organism resulting from various causes, such as infection, genetic defect, or environmental stress, and characterized by an identifiable group of signs or symptoms.

So if alcoholism is a disease... which it's not by the dictionary definition of disease... why don't they call crack heads as having a disease and treat them? Why isn't obsessive TV watching a disease? Because they are willful acts. Just as alcoholism is and always will be. The only difference is that alcohol is legal, and kills more people every year than all illegal drugs combined. There's a vested interest in keeping it legal. Think about it.


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Invisiblephalloidin

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Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: Shroomism]
    #5677998 - 05/26/06 06:43 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

again, I'm not saying alcoholism is a disease. I didn't even mention alcoholism in my post. My point is that you can't say something ISN'T a disease just because it is preventable. They are plenty of diseases out there that are preventable. Once again though, I'm not saying alcoholism is a disease.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: phalloidin]
    #5678000 - 05/26/06 06:45 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

MrTryptastic said:
My point is that you can't say something ISN'T a disease just because it is preventable.




he's saying it's not a disease because it just isnt, it's a choice


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Invisiblephalloidin

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Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5678018 - 05/26/06 06:53 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

look at my original post and you'll see it had nothing to do with alcoholism. I was simply pointing out that to say something isn't a disease because it is preventable, is flawed. that is all


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: phalloidin]
    #5678038 - 05/26/06 07:05 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Cancer is preventable. Alcoholism is far beyond preventable.


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OfflinePhoshaman
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Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: Shroomism]
    #5678049 - 05/26/06 07:09 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

re: the topic

when you're me.


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