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OfflineHeadTripVertigo
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Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: gregorio]
    #5677834 - 05/26/06 05:39 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Accept Jesus Christ as your savior and you won't be an alcoholic anymore.  :lol:

social drinking is fine IMO.  if it gets to be where you come home and drink alone (alone being even if people are there and you're the only one drinking, or if youre actually alone) all night.  social drinking is fine to me at least, because you're out doing something, working towards something productive(in some sense, anyway), and doing so with other people.  :thumbup:


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TACOS LIKE A MOTHERFUCKER


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Offlinedeadheadjpc2000
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Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: HeadTripVertigo]
    #5677843 - 05/26/06 05:43 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

When you wake up in the morning and say that you won't drink today...and then you do. Over and Over again...
Try to quit, and can't.
When you can't stop from getting shitfaced/blackout everytime you set out to have " a few drinks".
Peace


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: Shroomism]
    #5677856 - 05/26/06 05:51 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomism said:
As far as alcoholism being a "disease of the mind"... it's not.




I've argued that for many years, the reply I hear the most is "are you saying all those doctors are lying", why, yes, yes I am.


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OfflineHeadTripVertigo
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Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5677871 - 05/26/06 05:57 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Shroomism said:
As far as alcoholism being a "disease of the mind"... it's not.




I've argued that for many years, the reply I hear the most is "are you saying all those doctors are lying", why, yes, yes I am.



yeah that's all bullshit. calling it a disease is just a way for people to esca[e blame and responsibility for their actions. just like how they're calling obesity a disease now. It doesn't matter if your parents are fat fucks or if they drink a case of beer a day.

You don't have to. There's no genetic/hereditary anything that can make you stuff your face with cheeseburgers. Nothing can make you not active and not healthy. Nothing will make you drink till you vomit or pass out.

Except you.

This happens with everything. Columbine, they blamed the music, the parents, the movies, the games, etc. People want something to blame because most of them are pussies who want someone else to take responsibility for fucking up their own lives.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: HeadTripVertigo]
    #5677886 - 05/26/06 06:00 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

if you ever attend an AA or NA meeting you'll notice that they want you to accept
responsibility for thigs unless it was your past drug use, they also want you to
substitute one addiction for others, god and meetings being the dominant,
aparently they dont view nicotine or caffene as drugs because they encourage the
use of those


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OfflineNashbar
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Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5677905 - 05/26/06 06:05 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

do cravings make a person an alcoholic?


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Invisiblephalloidin

Registered: 07/03/04
Posts: 865
Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: HeadTripVertigo]
    #5677914 - 05/26/06 06:09 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

would you tell a guy with AIDS that its not a disease because it was his fault for having unprotected sex. Hell, most all diseases can be attributed to peoples lifestyle choices. That doesn't make it any less of a disease. Some diseases are just more preventable than others.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: phalloidin]
    #5677937 - 05/26/06 06:15 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

READ

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1545723&dopt=Abstract

http://www.peele.net/faq/disease.html

http://www.schaler.net/1988oct25.html


Quote:

OBJECTIVE: To expound the argument that alcoholism (or "problem drinking") is not best regarded as a disease. SUMMARY: Excessive drinking can cause physical disease and involve physical dependence without therefore being a disease itself. The "disease concept" of alcoholism is not needed to justify medical intervention or a caring approach to those who are dependent on alcohol. There is a specific and a general version of the disease concept of alcoholism. The specific disease concept, associated mainly with the Fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous, is contradicted by empirical evidence and unhelpful for preventive and treatment responses to problem drinking, especially for the effort to detect and modify problem drinking at an early stage. The more general disease concept shares these disadvantages and is also ineffective in engendering sympathetic attitudes towards problem drinkers among the general public. It is more useful to view problem drinking as the result of the interaction between the individual's personality and the social context in which he or she has learned how to drink. CONCLUSION: For an effective and compassionate societal response to problem drinking, the disease model of alcoholism should be replaced by a social learning perspective.




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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: phalloidin]
    #5677942 - 05/26/06 06:19 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

MrTryptastic said:
would you tell a guy with AIDS that its not a disease because it was his fault for having unprotected sex. Hell, most all diseases can be attributed to peoples lifestyle choices. That doesn't make it any less of a disease. Some diseases are just more preventable than others.




Scorosis of the liver=disease
Alcoholism=choice in lifestyle
aquired immune deficincy syndrome=disease
homosexuality=choice in lifestyle

understand it yet?


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Invisiblephalloidin

Registered: 07/03/04
Posts: 865
Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: Shroomism]
    #5677946 - 05/26/06 06:20 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I wasn't arguing that alcoholism is a disease. That much I'm not sure of. My point was that it's a flawed logic to say something isn't a disease just because a person brings it upon himself.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: phalloidin]
    #5677967 - 05/26/06 06:32 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

It's a total cop out to call alcoholism a disease. It's as much a disease as morbidly obese people gorging themselves on McDonalds everyday even though it's bad for them. It's not a disease.. it's an addiction. The fact that AA likes to promote this idea of it being a disease, as if these people are somehow completely helpless to control themselves and their actions.. is a fallacy and completely detracts from any source of personal responsibility.

I've known plenty of alcoholics. Hell.. I was one myself at the age of 15. It's not a disease. If anything, it's an obsessive 'escape' from reality and logic in the form of addictive behavior. The actual alcoholism doesn't appear from nowhere... it comes as a result of repeated, avoidable behavior.

Just to be clear let's see what the dictionary says a disease is:

disĀ·ease (d-zz)
n.

1. A pathological condition of a part, organ, or system of an organism resulting from various causes, such as infection, genetic defect, or environmental stress, and characterized by an identifiable group of signs or symptoms.

So if alcoholism is a disease... which it's not by the dictionary definition of disease... why don't they call crack heads as having a disease and treat them? Why isn't obsessive TV watching a disease? Because they are willful acts. Just as alcoholism is and always will be. The only difference is that alcohol is legal, and kills more people every year than all illegal drugs combined. There's a vested interest in keeping it legal. Think about it.


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Invisiblephalloidin

Registered: 07/03/04
Posts: 865
Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: Shroomism]
    #5677998 - 05/26/06 06:43 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

again, I'm not saying alcoholism is a disease. I didn't even mention alcoholism in my post. My point is that you can't say something ISN'T a disease just because it is preventable. They are plenty of diseases out there that are preventable. Once again though, I'm not saying alcoholism is a disease.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: phalloidin]
    #5678000 - 05/26/06 06:45 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

MrTryptastic said:
My point is that you can't say something ISN'T a disease just because it is preventable.




he's saying it's not a disease because it just isnt, it's a choice


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Invisiblephalloidin

Registered: 07/03/04
Posts: 865
Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5678018 - 05/26/06 06:53 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

look at my original post and you'll see it had nothing to do with alcoholism. I was simply pointing out that to say something isn't a disease because it is preventable, is flawed. that is all


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: phalloidin]
    #5678038 - 05/26/06 07:05 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Cancer is preventable. Alcoholism is far beyond preventable.


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OfflinePhoshaman
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Re: when are you an alcoholic? [Re: Shroomism]
    #5678049 - 05/26/06 07:09 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

re: the topic

when you're me.


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