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fireworks_god
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Respiratory Meditation Vs. Circulatory Meditation
#5673799 - 05/25/06 05:05 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Most meditation techniques that I find are proposed here are centered around focusing upon the breath. I wish to discuss this, and also the possibility of meditation that is based upon the heartbeat - advantages and disadvantages of each, the nature of meditation that is focused on either one (what the experience is like, etc. etc.).
Personally, I do not do too much meditation, and much of what I might propose is conceptual, theory. I fully request that anyone with any thoughts or experience that they might share on this subject fully engage in doing so, for the benefit of all. 
I think meditation upon the circulatory system would be unique and beneficial. First and foremost, the conscious mind, without specific, advanced training, is not capable of controlling the heartbeat, whereas one can certainly, completely control one's breath. This is going to make a difference when it comes to meditation, the fact that one cannot, by any real, direct way (sure, one could cause oneself to panic and become afraid, but that isn't going to help meditation any ) influence one's heartbeat.
I propose that this is going to make a difference in meditation. I'm reminded of entering trance through drumming - the constant, rhythmic pulse has an effect on our mind.
Also, the more focus we bring into the beating of the heart, the more our awareness is brought into our body, which will provide for an experience that most of Western civilization is largely without. One can experience the blood flowing throughout one's entire body, the blood circulating every single vein.
What do you think? I think that it might be more difficult, at first, to meditate with focus being placed within one's circulatory system, as compared to one's respiratory system, because of the fact that one's mind has little to no influence on the beating of one's heart.
But perhaps meditating on one's heartbeat is a greater oppurtunity to bring awareness into one's state of being, transcending the mind.
Eh? 
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Icelander
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Re: Respiratory Meditation Vs. Circulatory Meditation [Re: fireworks_god]
#5673856 - 05/25/06 05:18 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I propose that this is going to make a difference in meditation. I'm reminded of entering trance through drumming - the constant, rhythmic pulse has an effect on our mind.
As far as I understand it's not just a steady beat but the amount of beats per second that effects the trance state. Four beats per second if I remember correctly.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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DoctorJ


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Re: Respiratory Meditation Vs. Circulatory Meditation [Re: fireworks_god]
#5673870 - 05/25/06 05:21 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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"to focus on the breath is to overstrain it."
-Lao Tzu
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fireworks_god
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Re: Respiratory Meditation Vs. Circulatory Meditation [Re: Icelander]
#5673929 - 05/25/06 05:33 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: As far as I understand it's not just a steady beat but the amount of beats per second that effects the trance state. Four beats per second if I remember correctly.
Kick ass, I'll have to remember that. I wasn't necessarily proposing that one's heart beat would put one into a trance, but that it relates in some manner. 
Have you ever meditated with focus upon your circulatory system, Icelander? I haven't much, but it is great when you can feel your heart itself, and then can feel the sensation of the blood flow spread forth throughout one's body... with more practice, I bet you can feel every capillary in an orgasm of experience. 
I've also noticed that my thoughts get out of control, as though they are trying to maintain the consciousness that allows them to be. Its gotten so difficult before that I couldn't feel the pulse of my heart and had to press my fingers agansit my jugular.
I think that this might be why focusing on one's breath might be easier, because the mind doesn't lose as much power... 
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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fireworks_god
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Re: Respiratory Meditation Vs. Circulatory Meditation [Re: DoctorJ]
#5673931 - 05/25/06 05:35 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
DoctorJ said: "to focus on the breath is to overstrain it."
-Lao Tzu
Exactly, I've noticed that as well, and neglected to mention it. 
Like, if I am to focus on my breathing and influence it, it is hard to stop influencing it. It has gotten uncomfortable before.
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Icelander
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Re: Respiratory Meditation Vs. Circulatory Meditation [Re: fireworks_god]
#5673951 - 05/25/06 05:40 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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No I havn't done it. I'm not much into meditation at all. I have done it for months at a time but then let it go. Before I became enlightened
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Respiratory Meditation Vs. Circulatory Meditation [Re: fireworks_god]
#5674099 - 05/25/06 06:19 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Nicephorus the Solitary in Writings From the Philokalia trans. Kadloubovsky & Palmer
It was the practices of the monks on Mt. Athos, Greece that enabled me to bridge a gap between Hindu and Buddhist Yoga to Eastern Orthodox Christianity. It is conceivable that they derived their practices from Indian sources. Another practice begins with the navel center and searches for 'the place of the Heart.' The posture is a squat with head between the knees - very involuted posture to reflect/elicit the inward attitude. The above practice is represented in Catholic mystical art by the Crown of Thorns whoch descends to encircle the Heart, or, the Head in the Heart - the seat of Transpersonal Consciousness established in the Heart, which further suggests that it isn't the mundane awareness of brain consciousness. If God is a circle whose Center is everywhere and whose circumference is nowhere, then this practice attempts to Realize the presence of The Center in one's Heart.
Here, red and white drops of blood and water drip from the Sacred Heart. Vajrayana Buddhism likewise holds a mystical anatomy which describes 'winds' and 'drops' [red and white!] which converge in the Heart at the moment of physical death. A union of solar and lunar, masculine and feminine, yielding the Mysterium Conjunctionis - disclosed in Buddhism, undisclosed except to the Initiated in Christianity.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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dblaney
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Re: Respiratory Meditation Vs. Circulatory Meditation [Re: fireworks_god]
#5674282 - 05/25/06 07:09 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I find breath awareness to be better for me personally. There are two types of breath meditations that I do, sometimes alternating. The first is to simply bring all of my awareness to my breathing, without influencing it in the least. It is slightly difficult, but it is good practice, and I find it helps my self-discipline, as I can apply the same type of experience to thoughts and emotions and other clouds.
The second meditation is breath control, prajnayama, which can bring about profound changes in consciousness and can allow one to enter into trance states or other states of consciousness fairly easily.
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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fireworks_god
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Re: Respiratory Meditation Vs. Circulatory Meditation [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
#5676432 - 05/26/06 09:42 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Tusen takk for the reply! 
I am going to make a practice of meditation, like that excerpt described. When thinking about this, I had considered that perhaps one should focus on one's breath, and then lead in from that to the heart, and that seems to make sense. 
I'm not sure I will repeat the prayer "Lord, Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy upon me!", but something somewhat similar that will effectively bring me to reside in the present moment. I'm reminded of the "Pilgrim's Prayer", or something like that, which I recall mentioning before and you personally had a lot of information on.
Interesting stuff. 
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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redgreenvines
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Re: Respiratory Meditation Vs. Circulatory Meditation [Re: fireworks_god]
#5676517 - 05/26/06 10:21 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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the pace and alternation of breathing in and out is fairly convenient, such that, with nothing added, enough natural complexity exists to constitute a full meditation. one can also be aware of the heart etc., but the focus on breathing is suitably paced to establish tranquility and expand into insight.
focussing of faster rhythms creates extra content that can interfere with establishing tranquility; once that is established, another focus is not required.
some might like to think of it as a toy or tool and may wonder, now "what if I add this and what if I add that?"
the answer is basically: "then you have additional stuff".
you don't need extra stuff.
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Respiratory Meditation Vs. Circulatory Meditation [Re: fireworks_god]
#5677907 - 05/26/06 06:06 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Yes, the pilgrim in The Way of a Pilgrim andA Pilgrim Continues His Way carries a Bible and a copy of The Philokalia (at least part of it). The Jesus prayer is said to block out intrusive thoughts. The first part said during inhalation, the second during exhalation. Light is imagined in the Heart. The prayer is first said aloud, then silently with lips moving, then mentally and finally it is said while following the breath to the Heart. It is said up to 12,000 times a day until the prayer becomes associated with the heartbeat and respiration. At that point, the prayer goes on autonomously 'in the Heart,' even during sleep as it becomes rooted in the unconscious and autonomic bodily processes. Meanwhile, the prayer needs to be demythologized so that the Name of Jesus Christ comes to mean the Logos-Light, not the Man (no images of a 1st century hippy)!
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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redgreenvines
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Re: Respiratory Meditation Vs. Circulatory Meditation [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
#5678176 - 05/26/06 07:50 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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it can be as simple or as complex as you may need
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fireworks_god
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Re: Respiratory Meditation Vs. Circulatory Meditation [Re: redgreenvines]
#5678959 - 05/26/06 11:35 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: some might like to think of it as a toy or tool and may wonder, now "what if I add this and what if I add that?"
I wasn't considering it along those lines, but rather that perhaps circulatory system based meditation would more effectively bring one's awareness into one's body, since one would be able to fully experience the flow of one's blood throughout every vessle. That would have to be an incredible experience. 
Also, perhaps it is through meditation upon one's breath that is the pathway to the type of meditation that I am referring to. 
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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fireworks_god
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Re: Respiratory Meditation Vs. Circulatory Meditation [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
#5678966 - 05/26/06 11:37 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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That certainly demonstrates the power of affirmation. 
Right now I am thinking over and over "I am not tired, I am not tired"... 
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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redgreenvines
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Re: Respiratory Meditation Vs. Circulatory Meditation [Re: fireworks_god]
#5679577 - 05/27/06 03:59 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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self hypnosis? well adding layers is always fun fun fun...
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Icelander
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Re: Respiratory Meditation Vs. Circulatory Meditation [Re: redgreenvines]
#5679585 - 05/27/06 04:19 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Red what are you doing up at this ungodly hour. Milk and cookies kept you awake?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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redgreenvines
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Re: Respiratory Meditation Vs. Circulatory Meditation [Re: Icelander]
#5679712 - 05/27/06 06:57 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I usually sleep right through the ineternet. but sometimes there is a disturbance in the force.
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Icelander
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Re: Respiratory Meditation Vs. Circulatory Meditation [Re: redgreenvines]
#5679983 - 05/27/06 10:15 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I felt it too.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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fresh313
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Re: Respiratory Meditation Vs. Circulatory Meditation [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
#5680128 - 05/27/06 11:02 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:

Nicephorus the Solitary in Writings From the Philokalia trans. Kadloubovsky & Palmer
do you have anymore from philokalia? thanks
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niteowl
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Re: Respiratory Meditation Vs. Circulatory Meditation [Re: fireworks_god]
#5680454 - 05/27/06 01:25 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I have found that by focusing on the breath to start the meditation, then focusing on you blood flow to be a very profound experience.
When I say "focus on breathing" I'm not talking about controlling your breathing......just allowing your lungs to "do their thing". This can be somewhat tricky, because I have a tendency to try and control my breathing. This doesn't work as well as just letting the breath happen. Let it be as big or as small as you lungs want.
Listen you your breath, don't control your breath.
As I begin to relax I notice how the blood is flowing/pulsing thru my body. This flow can be "out of balance" at times. Flowing more to one part of you body and less to another. I remember one time I could feel the blood flowing to my head. It was pulsing hard thru my left side, weak thru my right. I tried to force the right side to flow at the same force as the left.....it didn't work. After a few minutes more I decided to limit the flow to both sides, then slowly open the flow back up. This actually worked. When the blood began pulsing back up, both sides had the same amount of flow.
You can use this to get the highly oxygenated blood to really pulse thru your body evenly.
It is a body high like I have never felt before.
-------------------- Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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