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MFKDGAF
Stranger


Registered: 09/01/05
Posts: 194
Loc: Midwest
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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Which casing method is best?
#5673598 - 05/25/06 03:59 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Ok, I've done BRF with 50 verm/50 peat with some oyster shell. So I am very use to/dealing with 50 verm/50 peat. How ever this time I'm going to be using WBS. As I'm reading in these posts it seems like the ideal casing for WBS is hpoo or hpoo with straw. My question is, is there a major difference if I use 50 verm/50 peat with WBS than not using hpoo or hpoo with straw. In your opinions and experiences which would be the best for WBS? Or should I consider using a different casing? If so would you still add oyster shells for the Ph level? Keep in mind that it is very easy for me to get my hands a hold of peat & verm. vs. hpoo or hpoo with straw. Also by using hpoo is it very smelly? Because I would think it would stink up the place. If hpoo is the best to use where online could I get some hpoo or hpoo with straw from? One other thing, could you please link me to a good tek on how to properly case hpoo or hpoo with straw. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanx
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monstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work


Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay
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Re: Which casing method is best? [Re: MFKDGAF]
#5673609 - 05/25/06 04:05 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I think that you are confused. h/poo is not a casing. straw is not a casing.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/postlist.php/Board/155280
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Roadkill
Retired Shroomery Mod


Registered: 12/11/01
Posts: 22,674
Loc: Montana
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Re: Which casing method is best? [Re: monstermitch]
#5673631 - 05/25/06 04:13 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
monstermitch said:
I think that you are confused.
h/poo is not a casing.
straw is not a casing.
he is confused...
they are bulk substrates!~
You spawn your colonized (jars) substrate into a bulk substrate...
then let that colonize...
then you add a casing layer to the bulk substrate.
or you can fruit dirrectly off the horse poo...without a casing layer. but you will get better pinsets and flushes with a casing layer. unless you use RR's wax paper method.
tc
-------------------- Laterz, Road Who the hell you callin crazy? You wouldn't know what crazy was if Charles Manson was eating froot loops on your front porch! Brainiac said: PM the names with on there names, that means they have mushrooms for sale.
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MFKDGAF
Stranger


Registered: 09/01/05
Posts: 194
Loc: Midwest
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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Re: Which casing method is best? [Re: Roadkill]
#5673674 - 05/25/06 04:25 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Ok, I think I am confused now. I'm used to BRF terminology so coming in to WBS all the terminology changed and is confusing me with like the word spawn or spawning. But this is what I am getting from it. Tell me if this procedure sounds correct. 1. Soak the WBS. 2. Pressure cook the WBS jars. 3. Inoculate the WBS jars. 4. Let the WBS jars colonize in TIT. 5.I put the WBS in my casing pans which is a bottom layer of wet verm then the colonized WBS on top with tin foil over it with air holes in the tin foil and put back in to my TIT. Wait like 3 days. 6. Put casing layer on top of colonized WBS. 7. Put Tray in to fruiting chamber. 8. Water and watch the shrooms grow. This is exactly how i did it with BRF. So I'm assuming it would be the same way for WBS except i have to soak the WBS. Does this Sound correct? Or How/what is the proper way of doing it?
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monstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work


Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay
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Re: Which casing method is best? [Re: MFKDGAF]
#5673701 - 05/25/06 04:33 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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no good.
5. mix colonized wbs with pasteurized h/poo or coco coir 6. put bulk mix into trays, cover with wrap, poke holes, cover with loose foil. 7. incubate at 74-76 degrees till 100% 8. put casing layer (50/50 peat verm style) over colonized bulk. 9. re-incubate till myc. starts to poke through. 10. put tray into fruiting conditions. 11. maintain optimal pinning and fruiting parameters and watch them grow. 12. harvest and continue on with dunking and the such.
bulk (no pics): http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/5668568/an/0/page/0
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MFKDGAF
Stranger


Registered: 09/01/05
Posts: 194
Loc: Midwest
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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Re: Which casing method is best? [Re: monstermitch]
#5673719 - 05/25/06 04:39 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
monstermitch said: no good.
5. mix colonized wbs with pasteurized h/poo or coco coir 6. put bulk mix into trays, cover with wrap, poke holes, cover with loose foil. 7. incubate at 74-76 degrees till 100% 8. put casing layer (50/50 peat verm style) over colonized bulk. 9. re-incubate till myc. starts to poke through. 10. put tray into fruiting conditions. 11. maintain optimal pinning and fruiting parameters and watch them grow. 12. harvest and continue on with dunking and the such.
bulk (no pics): http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/5668568/an/0/page/0
Ok i'm understanding a little bit better now just my only questions are why do you have to pasteurize it with hpoo or coco coir? Exactly what does it mean to pasteurize? cuz i figured you could do it the same way as BRF. Cuz I seen this "how to make shroom" video and they didn't even soak their grain and they just put the colonized grain in a tray with 50 verm/ 50 peat on top. Thanx
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monstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work


Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay
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Re: Which casing method is best? [Re: MFKDGAF]
#5673745 - 05/25/06 04:46 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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you can fruit from rye. WBS will not do nearly as well. that is why you should mix your wbs with h/poo or coco coir.
pasteurization is like sterilization, just lower temperatures. you are killing most bacteria and bad stuff, bet leaving some beneficial ones. Those left behind by pasteurization are your friends.
You always have to either sterilize or pasteurize substrate, whether it be BRF, WBS, h/poo, coir, rye, or anything else. I sterilize my spawn (BRF or WBS) I pasteurize my bulk (coir, h/poo, straw, critter country) I pasteurize my casing (peat/verm 50/50 plus some additives)
That videos grain was probably rye. Grain doesn't hold moisture all that well. Mushrooms are 92% or so water. You want your substrate to hold as much water as possible so your shrooms can get huge. The difference between a small shroom and a big one is water. That is it, besides some cell strengthening stuff. A huge shroom and a small shroom have the same number of cells.
Water retention is critical, hence why people dunk and mist, and .....
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dudefromaz
That One Dude


Registered: 05/08/06
Posts: 383
Loc: In the Midst of Time........
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
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Re: Which casing method is best? [Re: monstermitch]
#5673819 - 05/25/06 05:09 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
monstermitch said: you can fruit from rye. WBS will not do nearly as well. that is why you should mix your wbs with h/poo or coco coir.
pasteurization is like sterilization, just lower temperatures. you are killing most bacteria and bad stuff, bet leaving some beneficial ones. Those left behind by pasteurization are your friends.
You always have to either sterilize or pasteurize substrate, whether it be BRF, WBS, h/poo, coir, rye, or anything else. I sterilize my spawn (BRF or WBS) I pasteurize my bulk (coir, h/poo, straw, critter country) I pasteurize my casing (peat/verm 50/50 plus some additives)
That videos grain was probably rye. Grain doesn't hold moisture all that well. Mushrooms are 92% or so water. You want your substrate to hold as much water as possible so your shrooms can get huge. The difference between a small shroom and a big one is water. That is it, besides some cell strengthening stuff. A huge shroom and a small shroom have the same number of cells.
Water retention is critical, hence why people dunk and mist, and .....
But if they have the same amount of cells... Wouldn't the larger one have the same dry weight as the small one? just a question...
-------------------- Remember, the best drug, is a natural drug..... Peace, Fratirnityishly, Smoke Da Stuff, Special Chocolate
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hyphae
born to grow


Registered: 12/13/02
Posts: 6,228
Loc: the rain forests
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Re: Which casing method is best? [Re: monstermitch]
#5673846 - 05/25/06 05:16 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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There is no way the same number of cells that doesn't even make any mycosense! It's not all water but water plays the biggest roll in yield without a doubt!
-------------------- Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy. Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is Gas Exchange vs. FAE "We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"
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monstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work


Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay
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Re: Which casing method is best? [Re: dudefromaz]
#5673874 - 05/25/06 05:22 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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No.
and it might not be exactly the same, but only a very small % more.
When the mushroom is growing and the cells are expanding chitin is added to the cell walls to strengthen them, so they can support their own weight as they get bigger.
This increases the weight as well as the increased size of the expanded cells. They shrink back down quite a bit during drying if you noticed...
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monstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work


Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay
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Re: Which casing method is best? [Re: monstermitch]
#5673896 - 05/25/06 05:25 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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This could be hyphae. Sometimes I take what I read from agar to be gospel.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/favlinke...r=1&postmarker=
and most other times I'm wrong I just don't take from what I read what I should have.
So maybe agar is correct and I am wrong, or maybe we are both wrong.
either way, I'd like to hear your take hyphae, I respect your wisdom.
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MasFina
Snow Shredder


Registered: 05/08/06
Posts: 788
Loc: Mountains
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Re: Which casing method is best? [Re: monstermitch]
#5673974 - 05/25/06 05:44 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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hmm, so does that mean there isn't a big difference in the psilocybin content between a large shroom and a smaller one? Do the chemicals in the shroom increase with it's water content?
-------------------- A Good Substrate: Poo With Extras Good Liquid Culture, Step by Step Timer Modification PM me if you are interested in buying 140ml syringes. $6 each + $7 shipping
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monstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work


Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay
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Re: Which casing method is best? [Re: MasFina]
#5673988 - 05/25/06 05:47 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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small mushies are more potent than large ones in my opinion.
as the ones better than I say:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5195239#Post5195239
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MasFina
Snow Shredder


Registered: 05/08/06
Posts: 788
Loc: Mountains
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Re: Which casing method is best? [Re: monstermitch]
#5674005 - 05/25/06 05:52 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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aha. I guess the only way to tell is by eating them and taking notes then. I mean, to determine if the total psilocybin content is close rather than just more by weight
-------------------- A Good Substrate: Poo With Extras Good Liquid Culture, Step by Step Timer Modification PM me if you are interested in buying 140ml syringes. $6 each + $7 shipping
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hyphae
born to grow


Registered: 12/13/02
Posts: 6,228
Loc: the rain forests
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Re: Which casing method is best? [Re: MasFina]
#5674536 - 05/25/06 08:27 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Psilocybin content varies considerably with cubies (fact) Psilocybin content goes by weight an eighth is an eighth. Cells divide as well as expand, cell division increases mass this is basic physiology agar knows this maybe his point was not taken correctly maybe there's something else were not understanding here I'm not sure. Gram for gram cubies are widely variable in potency this is a for sure.
-------------------- Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy. Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is Gas Exchange vs. FAE "We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"
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monstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work


Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay
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Re: Which casing method is best? [Re: hyphae]
#5674624 - 05/25/06 08:55 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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the way I got it was mycelium grows by cell division. primordia grow by cell division. from this point on, the fruit body grows by cell expansion.
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hyphae
born to grow


Registered: 12/13/02
Posts: 6,228
Loc: the rain forests
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Re: Which casing method is best? [Re: monstermitch]
#5674658 - 05/25/06 09:04 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
monstermitch said: the way I got it was mycelium grows by cell division. primordia grow by cell division. from this point on, the fruit body grows by cell expansion.
That would not be correct otherwise all fruits would dry to nearly the same size/weight, does that make any sense to you? Thats the simplest way I can explain it.
-------------------- Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy. Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is Gas Exchange vs. FAE "We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"
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monstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work


Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay
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Re: Which casing method is best? [Re: hyphae]
#5674711 - 05/25/06 09:18 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Both sides make sense to me.
I re-read his thread that I put a link to and it all seems to make perfect sense.
I see your point too, and you always make sense.
There is something that makes both agar and you totally correct, I know it. Well, I don't know it, that's the problem.
I guess I will have to ask agar to clear this up for me. For now I am going to trust that you are correct. And I'll have him explain to me where I misunderstood him.
Thanks hyphea.
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MFKDGAF
Stranger


Registered: 09/01/05
Posts: 194
Loc: Midwest
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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Re: Which casing method is best? [Re: monstermitch]
#5674948 - 05/25/06 10:21 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
monstermitch said: no good.
5. mix colonized wbs with pasteurized h/poo or coco coir 6. put bulk mix into trays, cover with wrap, poke holes, cover with loose foil. 7. incubate at 74-76 degrees till 100% 8. put casing layer (50/50 peat verm style) over colonized bulk. 9. re-incubate till myc. starts to poke through. 10. put tray into fruiting conditions. 11. maintain optimal pinning and fruiting parameters and watch them grow. 12. harvest and continue on with dunking and the such.
bulk (no pics): http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/5668568/an/0/page/0
About how long does it take for the WBS to colonize with the pasteurized hpoo? Will it look like the same as if you were just letting it colonize with the casing layer where its poking through or do you want the whole entire thing(WBS + hpoo)to be colonize from inside out? Also How do you pasteurize? Is hpoo really smelly. cuz i'm just assuming it would be and do you know of any online site where i can purchase some hpoo from?
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Psychoslut
The Mother Fucking Bear-o-dactyl

Registered: 12/10/02
Posts: 20,917
Loc: all up in ya
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Re: Which casing method is best? [Re: MFKDGAF]
#5674999 - 05/25/06 10:31 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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About how long does it take for the WBS to colonize with the pasteurized hpoo?
-----Depends on spawn ratio, count on ten days though at least.
Will it look like the same as if you were just letting it colonize with the casing layer where its poking through or do you want the whole entire thing(WBS + hpoo)to be colonize from inside out?
The mycelium will first emerge from the grains and then begin to grow over the hpoo.
Also How do you pasteurize? Is hpoo really smelly. cuz i'm just assuming it would be and do you know of any online site where i can purchase some hpoo from?
Pasteurize poo at 165-175 degrees for 2 hours. There are teks in the substrates archives. Check for agars doing duh h/poo tek.
Hpoo does not smell, if it does it needs to be leeched. Only carnivore poo stinks.
Check the sponsors for hpoo but its a rip off IMO, dont be lazy collect it and pasteurize it on your own.
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[quote]KristiMidocean said: Good now thats clear.WHO FUCKING CARES. If I am fat u all keep pointing it out like its suppose to be a secret.LIke u really have nothing better to do then make fat jokes. If o know its like I do I know yall can come up with NEW AND BETTER SHIT . This shit is old and boring . I left in the first place cause this shit got boring not because of the fat jokes . Fat jokes dont bother me but seriously its old[/quote]
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