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Offlinetassieboy
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Golden Tops??? Whats the Scientific name???
    #5670944 - 05/24/06 11:58 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Hi Fellas... In tassie when i talk to people about shrooms... they always say Golden Tops are the most common... Whats specie are they??? i would greatly appreciate if someone could put up a pic... because im going to the southern rainforests this weekend, so i would love to find some... and if i do, i'll pop some pics up of my findings, cheers


Edited by tassieboy (05/25/06 12:34 AM)


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Offlinetriple_
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Re: Golden Tops??? Whats the scientific name??? [Re: tassieboy]
    #5671108 - 05/25/06 12:37 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Scientific name is Psilocybe Subaeruginosa and if you look through the last couple of pages in the Melbourne thread, there are pictures of subs all over the place aswell as other random threads throughout the forum.

Also don't forget to test them before thinking about eating them. They should bruise blue when handled and have a dark purple-brown/black-brown spore print.

If you're not sure about any, take pictures and post them here so others can help. See here for the guidelines on posting ID requests.


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Offlinetassieboy
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Re: Golden Tops??? Whats the Scientific name??? [Re: tassieboy]
    #5671138 - 05/25/06 12:44 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

very much appreciated... thanks mate, if i happen to find some i'll let you know, cheers


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Golden Tops??? Whats the scientific name??? [Re: triple_]
    #5671623 - 05/25/06 05:25 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Sorry Triple,

but Gold Tops was a name used to describe Psilocybe cubensis along the Gold Coast Region of Queensland in the late 1960s and early 1970s, specifically by a local group of biker/surfers along the famed Gold Coast. Read:

Excerpted from Magic mushrooms of Australia and new Zealand by J. W. Allen.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

In addition, many early users of "magic mushrooms" in Australia may have first become aware of their mind﷓altering effects by reading the published literature or the many news items appearing in the popular Australian press during the late l960's and early l970's. These news items often described both accidental and deliberate intoxication’s which resulted from the ingestion of several varieties of "magic mushrooms". For example, in 1972, one local newspaper report provided an account regarding the use of these mushrooms by young teenagers at a local high school in Brisbane: "...children at a suburban school are getting high on mushrooms called ‘Gold Tops.’ The mushrooms are common along the Brisbane River near Toowing High School, and children in search of `kicks' have been experimenting with them." “They can be found in manure growin in the paddocks.” It would be very obvious to anyone who read this above mentioned news item, when it appeared in print, that those searching for hallucinogenic mushrooms would be able to find them if they so desired.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX


Stocks, A. E. l963. Mushroom Poisoning in Brisbane. Journal of the Princess Alexandra Hospital 1:21﷓24.

Trotter, J. E. l944. A Report of Nine Cases of Mushroom Poisoning. Medical Journal of Australia 1(18):393.

Unsigned. l941. A Poisonous Fungi. Agricultural Gazette of New South Wales
52(4):213. April 1.


McCarthy, J. P. l971. Some Less Familiar Drugs of Abuse. Medical Journal of Australia 12(21):1078﷓1081.

Southcott, R. V. l974. Notes on Some Poisonings and other Clinical. Effects Following Ingestion of Australian Fungi. South Australian Clinics 6(5):442﷓478.

Pegler, D.N. l965. Studies on Australasian Agaricales. Australian Journal of Botany 13(2):323﷓356.

Picker, J., and R. W. Rickards. l970. The Occurrence of the Psychomimetic Agent Psilocybin in an Australian Agaric, Psilocybe subaeruginosa. Australian Journal of Chemistry 23(4):853﷓855.

Shepherd, C. J., and Malcolm C. Hall. l973. Australian Hallucinogenic Fungi﷓Taxonomic, Pharmacological, and Legal Aspects. Paper read to the Australian and New Zealand Association for the Advancement of Science.
Section 11.5.



There are more than 1 dozen species of "magic mushrooms" in Australia and New Zealand. Four of these species are dung (manure) inhabiting mushrooms. They include Psilocybe cubensis and/or Psilocybe subcubensis (known locally as "gold caps" and/or "gold tops")and also Psilocybe subaeruginosa (wavy caps) , and Copelandia cyanescens (the latter is known locally as "blue meanies"). These four species contain the mind altering alkaloids psilocybine and psilocine and are the most common hallucinogenic mushrooms in Australia. In New Zealand, the most commonly used species are Copelandia cyanescens and Psilocybe semilanceata, the latter species is recognized throughout the world as the "liberty cap"). This species only occurs in manured soil and does not grow directly from the dung of cattle, sheep or other four legged farm animals. Although, Psilocybe cubensis , the most popular of these species, is well known throughout much of the world; however, this species is not known to occur in New Zealand.

In Hawaii, Gold caps often refer to P Copelandia species and to C. cambodigeniensis and sometimes normal Copelandia cyanescens are also referred to as Gold Caps, while in Australia and New Zealand they are known as Blue Meanies..


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InvisiblereshroomED
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Re: Golden Tops??? Whats the scientific name??? [Re: mjshroomer]
    #5671660 - 05/25/06 05:59 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

The term "gold-tops"/"copper-tops" have been in common usage in Southern Oz for at least twenty years and refer to P. subaeruginosa.

ed


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Golden Tops??? Whats the scientific name??? [Re: reshroomED]
    #5672009 - 05/25/06 09:13 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Ad I just pointed out above the epithet of 'goldtops' for P. cubensis originated with Psilocybe cubensis in the 1960s, probably before you were even born.

To begin with, P. subaeruginosa does not even have a golden top. The caps are chestnut fading to an ochraceous color and then fading to a straw-yellow color in age and in drying, and do not look and never have had a golden color as seen in Psilocybe cubensis.

mj.

Maybe one or two people you might known may have referred to subbs as golden tops but that is not a correct color of P. subaeruginosa.

And one more item of interest,

twenty years ago is a lot later than the mid to 1960s when mushrooms use became popular and P. cubensis were first collected and consumed in Australia. I have dozens of actual medical reports of overdoses form the early 1970s to verify what I am saying and the mushrooms were referred to as 'gold tops' and were botanically identified as Psilocybe cubensis. Thus trhe origin of the epithet. Reported in more than a dozen journal articles form Australia between the late 1960s and mid 1970s.

And that was after the publication of Timothy Leary's High Priest in 1968 and the original article by R. Gordon Wasson appearing in the May 13th, 1957 issue of Life Magazine which announced Dr. Wasson's rediscovery of magic mushrooms in Mexico used ceremoneously by native Americans. Australia did have this popular magazione on the shelves of their libraries and bookstores and the users were usualy college students who found out about them and spread the3 word to a group of people livng and traveling the Gold Coast region and surfing on shrooms thuse begin there also.

There is also the 1949 poisoning of nine people from the alledged "Hysteria fungus," later identified as Copelandia cyanescens.

The actual shroom the country referred to as the "Hysteria Fungus" was Panaeolus antillarum.

Also,
Quote:

13. Psilocybe subaeruginosa Cleland
Documented Locations: Cleland (1927) first reported this species from South Australia, New South Wales and Victoria. Other reported locations include: Adelaide, Adelaide Hills, Mt. Lofty, South Australia; Australian Capitol Territory; National Park, Belair, Mt. Field National Park, Tasmania. On pathway to Russell Falls. He even reported it once as "Fruiting on horse dung during the summer" suggesting a season of (April-August) months. Solitary to gregarious, on rich soil among grass or horse dung, or on decaying leaves and twigs, mainly in deeply shaded places. Johnston and In 1995, this species was reported from New Zealand at Auckland, Waikato, Bay of Plenty, Taranaki, Wanganui, Nelson, Buller, Southland as being common on small pieces of buried wood on rough coastal farmlands and pastures and especially on sandy soil, and in gardens, especially on mulches of Pinus radiata bark. The presence of psilocybine in this species in Australia was detected in 1970 and three years later (1973-1974), Dr. Malcomb Hall reported its use as a recreational drug.


Dr. Hall eventually became the Chief narcotics Office of Australia and he and I corresponded formany months on Australia fungi and the illicit use by students and surfers and teenagers.

Hall did not report any common name for this species in his two 1973 papers or in his article on abuse of mushrooms in Australia in the United Nations publication of his article, nor did

Picker, J., and R. W. Rickards. l970. The Occurrence of the Psychomimetic Agent Psilocybin in an Australian Agaric, Psilocybe subaeruginosa. Australian Journal of Chemistry 23(4):853﷓855.

Perkel, M., Blackman, G. L., Ottrey, A. L. and L. K. Turner. 1980. Determination of Hallucinogenic Components of Psilocybe Mushrooms using High-Performance Liquid Chromatography Journal of Chromatography vol. 196(1):180-184. [A new method is developed for the extraction and determination of the quantitation of psilocybin and psilocin in mushrooms. Extracts of the Australian species Psilocybe subaeruginosa revealed a wide range of psilocybin content.]

hall and Sherpard and hall, 1974, also reported Psilocybe cubensis as being referred to as gold tops and so did a large governmental study of the use by kids in school also referred to P. cubensis as 'gold tops."

One more fact, the first reports of P. subaeruginosa being collected on a popular basis did not occur until late 1990s and people begin to find some in the early 2000s because you can see when the Australian/New Zealand posts begin to appear on the Shroomery from their dates of posts made here. They are all recent and i cannot recall a single poster here calling P. subaeruginosa as a gold top. I have heard a few call them blue meanies though.

Very few if any knew of their existence in Australian until recently. Word of mouth spread the popularity of P. subaeruginosa throughout the country.

Up until recently, and as the majority of any noobie here and at other shroom sites, no one knew what they looked like.

I posted the first image here and it was a watercolor and that was when I wrote the book for erowid on Magic Mushrooms of Australia and New Zealand

Most individuals think that shrooms only grow in manure of cows or horses in pasturelands, paddocks, etc. Even still in America, the majority of newco0mers here at the Shrooemry look in cow fields where cubes and copes do not even grow. They have no idea that there are now more than 200 known species of psilocybian fungi, of which 6 Panaeolus and 13 Copelandias, and about 8 different Psilocybes grow in manure. The majority grow in woodchips and decayed matters such as twigs, branches, bark and leaves, some in sandy soils, some in grassy lawned areas and some in sphaghum moss along streams and river banks. Appearing more in Man made environments and only a few species common in abundance in natrural environments

mj

mj


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Golden Tops??? Whats the Scientific name??? [Re: tassieboy]
    #5672010 - 05/25/06 09:15 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

When you refer to Tassie, are you referring to Tasmania?

IF so I have a paper of Psilocybe cubensis being refered to as the 'gold tops' and that they were being exported from Australia to tasmania for the drug market from the 1970s.

mj

P.S.

Read the references here at the p bottom of the page about Gold Tops and see some remarks form Oz collectors of gold caps.


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InvisibleFeanor
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Re: Golden Tops??? Whats the Scientific name??? [Re: mjshroomer]
    #5673762 - 05/25/06 04:52 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

A lot of people I know refer to P. Cubensis as being Golden Tops. I got confused at first when I saw that post saying that they were P. Subbs but then...


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Invisibletryptonite
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Re: Golden Tops??? Whats the Scientific name??? [Re: Feanor]
    #5674332 - 05/25/06 07:28 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

yeah I have heard people here in South Australia often used the term "goldtops" when reffering to Psilocybe subaeruginosa. Im assuming it is because of the yellow colour some of our subs can get. btw MJ this info has to be false
Quote:

mjshroomer said:
He even reported it once as "Fruiting on horse dung during the summer" suggesting a season of (April-August) months.


I mean i have seen mycelium colonizing roo dung b4, but there is no way subs would ever fruit solely off dung especially horse.


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OfflineFeelers
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Re: Golden Tops??? Whats the Scientific name??? [Re: tryptonite]
    #5674546 - 05/25/06 08:29 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah pretty much everyone I've met here (NZ) calls subs Goldtops. Since we dont have any Cubensis there isnt really much cross over. Noone grows cubensis to sell them - all the dealers (if you could call them that) just pick subs.
I dont think theres really a common name for them other than goldtops. Subs is a term I've only heard used on the shroomery.

Some of the subs I've seen up north have been very golden in colour.
We almost certainly have blue meanies here too - New Plymoth is famous for them. :laugh:
Check this link out.... http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/magic_mushrooms_aunz/magic_mushrooms_aunz5.shtml

I'm thinking about going hunting down here in Chch for them, lots of dairy farms around :laugh:


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InvisiblereshroomED
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Re: Golden Tops??? Whats the scientific name??? [Re: mjshroomer]
    #5674584 - 05/25/06 08:41 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

G'day John.

Quote:

Ad I just pointed out above the epithet of 'goldtops' for P. cubensis originated with Psilocybe cubensis in the 1960s, probably before you were even born.





I didn't dispute the origin of the name, only that in SOUTHERN Oz these two mnames have been in common usage for at least 26yrs. I am speaking from personal experience, and fwiw i was born in '66.

Quote:

To begin with, P. subaeruginosa does not even have a golden top. The caps are chestnut fading to an ochraceous color and then fading to a straw-yellow color in age and in drying, and do not look and never have had a golden color as seen in Psilocybe cubensis.





Best you have a look at some more pics of subaeruginosa. In the wetter climates like Tassie many (especially juveniles) do indeed have a golden or copper colour, hence the colloqiualism.


Regardless, these terms are in common usage.
If you live in Tassie and hear the term gold-tops it is referring to subs.

ed


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OfflineCymbaline
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Re: Golden Tops??? Whats the scientific name??? [Re: reshroomED]
    #5675683 - 05/26/06 01:31 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

My two cents worth - I don't doubt you MJShroomer. It is obviously a local thing down here. I've been hunting subs for over twenty years - it wasn't until I came across the Shroomery last year that I learnt the same "subs". Until then I, and every one I had come across in the field called them "Gold Tops".


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: Golden Tops??? Whats the scientific name??? *DELETED* [Re: mjshroomer]
    #5678946 - 05/26/06 11:32 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Post deleted by bluemeanie

Reason for deletion: bbh



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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Golden Tops??? Whats the scientific name??? [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #5681200 - 05/27/06 06:19 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

While people in Australia, or at least in some areas in Australia may refer to P. subaeruginosa as 'golden tops' or 'gold tops', the name still originated from the late 1960s with Psilocybe cubensis picked along the Gold Coast Region of Australia. This was also reported by Southcott, Shephard and Hall and others in scientific and medical journals.

I believe the use of the epithet for subbs probably originated by users who did not know that P. cubensis was first called 'gold tops' and 'golden tops' in the 1960s and just started referring to subbs 'as gold tops' because they heard that magic mushroors were called 'gold tops' and 'golden tops'.

I have copies of those papers from the 1960s and 1970s which definitely refer to P. cubensis as 'Gold Tops'.

So the question here was what mushroom was referred to as would be the P. cubensis since it was first published when only that mushroom was known as a psychoactive species. And P. subbaeruginosa was not know to the general public until the mid to late 1990s or so and carried onto the shroomry after the year 2001-2002.

Even in 1970 in the Pacific Northwest, all early pickers looked in pastures for the mushrooms they heard grow in manure. Even I was unaware, until 1976, in Seattle that there were shrooms other than li8berty caps in pastures.
I was looking for P. cubensis in shit and walked right byu athe liberty caps for three years.

I found liberty caps in Oregon in 1973, After looking in pastures for three years for P. cubensis because a book I bought in the stores said the magic shrooms grew in manure in pastures. That book is in the first page of the mushrom section of the erowid.org shroom sectuion of their site. It also listed amanita muscaria as the famed magic mushroo of mexico. This was a book on Cubensis for Florida, Georgia and Texas the deep south, so to speak. It was sold all over the USA. $1.75, with photos of young penis envy shaped cubes listed as panaeolus subbalteatrus mushrooms. Another error which lef a dr. jao cobs to write an aerticle in a Mississippi Medical Journal that Panaelus was the 2nd most popular and used shroom inthe United States. This is an error, whicle its distribution is world wide, it is not as common as that paper made it opuot to be. ANd the shroom pictures of panaeolus subbalteatus in t the Gholued book were actually pictures of P. cubensis.

When I first moved to Maui, some kids (Haole and local) in Hawaii, often referred to the Copelandias as Hawaiian liberty caps. another error picked up by those who assumed that all shrooms grow in manure which are magic.

Something which many people post here about. Can I find them in my pasture in Maine, or in Wisconsin, or in Navada.
People look for them in pastures because many books say that is where they grow.

The same was in Austrlia. First they learn of P. cubensis. Then the liberty caps, and then Copelandia cyanescens, the latter known as blue meanies. They learned they grew in Fields, in or near manure. Not in woodchips or bark mulch. SO they looked in those areas where there were pastures.

Now some users in Australia have also referred to P. subaeruginosa as 'blue meanies'. Or they asked if the subbs were 'blue meanies'. There were posts here in the Shroomery in the past asking if the subss were the 'blue meanie' mushrooms they had heard of because the subbs they found turned extremely blue.

This is 'word of mouth' confusion by users who do not know the species they pick. But know what their friends told them or the names their friends used to describe what they found, or friends of their friends had found and that some called the shrooms 'blue meanies' or 'gold tops', etc..

Up until about five to ten years ago. Most Australian users of mushrooms were only aware of mushrooms in pasturelands, paddocks at ranch stations, etc., and that they grew in manure.

They were not aware of woodchiped or woodland species of psilocybian mushrooms on your continent.

That in turn leads to many users referring to the mushrooms with different epithets from different regions of your country.

mj


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Golden Tops??? Whats the scientific name??? [Re: mjshroomer]
    #5681230 - 05/27/06 06:37 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

One other point of observation blue meanie,

even in your first hunts of P. subaeruginosa, you thought they were wavy capps of the P. cyanescens variety.

From your first post on finding some and identifuying them from Paul Stamets book (Even he has major mistakes in his book). Here is your quote from a while back about your confusion on the id of the species. b This is from April 5, 2002. Your discovery period or close to it.
:

Quote:

I have given up completely on identifying Australian woodloving Psilocybes! After watching the documentary on magic mushrooms in Western Australia 'Fungamentary' where an elderly Mycogolist earnestly identifys a large brown-capped WAVY-CAPPED mushroom as Psilocybe Subaeruginosa - I am lost! Is this ID correct? Or is it that when someone finds a psilocybe of any description in Australia, it is labelled as Subaeruginosa??

According to Stamet's 'Psilocybe Mushrooms of the World' Ps.Subaeruginosa is a small brown mushroom that only expands to obtusely convex at full maturity. In this case, i havent found this mushroom!! Ive found three dark brown mushrooms and one orange capped psilocybe and all four uplifted and three out of four were wavy-capped on maturity - unlike Stamet's description! The orange capped mushroom was unique in that it had a small nipple, stained blue on the cap and had veil remnants on the margin that uplifts but does not go wavy on full maturity. The sceond mushroom was a small dark mushroom that has been tentatively ided as Ps.Cyanescens.

The third mushroom is a dark wavy capped meaty mushroom shown below similar to the mushroom from 'Bunniyup'(incorrect spelling) western Australia - and the last is the closest ive found to Stamet's Subaeruginosa - in that it is umbonated and rarely uplifts and displays the dark cap colour.
any ideas?? Mj???




I am sorry that I personally never replied to the post as I may have been out of the country or somehow missed your posting the thread so there was no response to your quiry about this matter at that time. Maybe I did in another post.

mj


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Re: Golden Tops??? Whats the scientific name??? [Re: mjshroomer]
    #5681837 - 05/27/06 10:09 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

LOL - mate that post was from YEARS ago so im not sure why that is relevant to our discussion. My mistake back then was believing that people who had spent small amounts of time in Australia had actually made accurate observations about our native species. Since nearly all the references available to me back then provided unreliable information, I eventually had to do all the research myself - which resulted in the creation of my website on www.shaman-australis.com which you can review by following the link in my signature.
I was able to confirm that Ps.subaeruginosa was distinct from Ps.cyanescens. But having said that, suaberuginosa is closer in its gene profile to Ps.cyanescens than Ps.azurescens is.

I never doubted that people called Ps.cubensis 'gold-top', im just telling you that people in Australia often call Ps.subareuginosa gold top as well. Since we are merely talking about a nickname, i dont think scientific references make it any less prevelant.

'And P. subbaeruginosa was not know to the general public until the mid to late 1990s or so and carried onto the shroomry after the year 2001-2002.'
Is this your opinion or fact? If you think this is fact then again i have to disagree. I know people who were eating subaeruginosa in the early 80s...


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Re: Golden Tops??? Whats the Scientific name??? [Re: tassieboy]
    #5682087 - 05/27/06 11:38 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Like MJ said, I've always heard Psilocybe cubensis called "Gold Tops." Perhaps the common name applies to P. subs now-a-days. Times change  :shrug:

It'd be easier for us to tell you the scientific name of the species you are refering to if you posted a pic of what YOU call "Golden Tops."

That's the disadvantage of common names, they change all the time, from region to region. When I talk to my friend about shrooms, I always use scientific name, no matter how confused they are or how bad I butcher the pronunciation.


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