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Invisibleblink
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Safepeer Plugin for Azureus (Blocklists?)
    #5669830 - 05/24/06 07:01 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I got another love letter from my ISP telling me that NBC alleges I'm stealing their content (I don't have a PVR and I'm lazy... I *could* record it but I often forget and downloading it is convenient.... let's not get bogged into a legal/moral debate; it's not a legal issue, it's just annoying to get emails from them)

point of this post: what the fuck happened to safepeer?

where's the blocklist?


I'm using the newest version of azureus and installed safepeer but the blocklist it defaults to ( http://bluetack.info/bluetack/spconfig.txt ) is only one line?

blocklist.org 404's on the P2P blocklist

WHAT DO I DO TO KEEP MY ISP HAPPY?! :confused:


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InvisibleVvellum
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Re: Safepeer Plugin for Azureus (Blocklists?) [Re: blink]
    #5670023 - 05/24/06 07:44 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

blocklists are just a sense of security and nothing more. false security. but if you chose to use them, you should use http://www.bluetack.co.uk/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=14 in order to use all the lists out there. BLM really helps.


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OfflineYthanA
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Re: Safepeer Plugin for Azureus (Blocklists?) [Re: blink]
    #5670100 - 05/24/06 08:07 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

http://www.bluetack.co.uk/config/spconfig.txt is the correct URL. It's showing 119,151 blocked IPs for me. Make sure you have "enable blocklist manager" selected in the SafePeer options. And they aren't just about a sense of security, they're quite effective the majority of the time. So be sure you get it working before you start seeding new movies and stuff. :wink:

Note that the default SafePeer blocklist blocks 64.3% of the internet. If you start piling on additional blocklists you may have difficulty connecting to legitimate peers.


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Offlinesupra
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Re: Safepeer Plugin for Azureus (Blocklists?) [Re: Ythan]
    #5670235 - 05/24/06 08:53 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

does this block regular websites too, or just help to not get scanned by the peeps that dont like downloading, and get busted? It would be great if you would let me know, thanks

peace

also, how would i go about downloading the list to a file on my comp so i can set it up like this?

http://www.baddass.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/torrent.htm

just scroll down to the area it says azureus.

thanks

peace


Edited by supra (05/24/06 09:24 PM)


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OfflineYthanA
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Re: Safepeer Plugin for Azureus (Blocklists?) [Re: supra]
    #5670687 - 05/24/06 10:48 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

The plugin runs in Azureus and when a peer tries to connect to you, their IP is compared against the blacklist. If there's a match, the connection is immediately dropped. This prevents most of the industry's automated attempts to track file sharers. Their IP ranges are quickly blacklisted, they can't connect to you and verify you're sharing the file, no complaint goes out to your ISP.

You don't need to follow those weird instructions to get Safepeer or the blocklist working with Azureus. Click 'Plugins | Installation Wizard | By list from Sourceforce'. Select SafePeer, click next, and restart when prompted. Everything should be working properly, you can select 'Plugins | SafePeer' to tweak settings. You'll know it's working if you see a number of blacklisted IPs at the bottom of the window (right now it's 119,197 for me). You can also check the 'IP Filters' option under Azureus preferences, when SafePeer is working this will contain the blacklisted IPs.

Remember nothing's foolproof but this is an effective way, for the time being, to be passed over for easier targets.

-Y


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InvisibleVvellum
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Re: Safepeer Plugin for Azureus (Blocklists?) [Re: Ythan]
    #5670696 - 05/24/06 10:49 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

And they aren't just about a sense of security, they're quite effective the majority of the time.




do you really think the agents of the riaa and mpaa do not know about these blocklists? they could easily check to see if they're listed and then utiltize a non-blocked IP range.

false sense of security.


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Re: Safepeer Plugin for Azureus (Blocklists?) [Re: Vvellum]
    #5670959 - 05/25/06 12:02 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Yes but the IP space is finite and the ranges belonging to these organizations can be logged and tracked. There's work and expense entailed in aquiring a new range of IPs. In contrast blacklisting an IP is fast and free. It's the same reason we win all our wars against trolls and puppets. It's a lot easier to click 'ban' than create a throw-away e-mail and register a new account. I'm not saying it's impossible to evade blacklists, I'm just saying there are so many easier targets that for now I think they really do offer a good measure of security.


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InvisibleVvellum
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Re: Safepeer Plugin for Azureus (Blocklists?) [Re: Ythan]
    #5671386 - 05/25/06 02:31 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Perhaps you're right if the agents who seek out IP addresses from people who upload copyrighted material use their own IP ranges. That is a huge assumption. Nothing is stopping them from using "personal" internet connections. Anyone can see the IP address of someone working on a torrent. All they would have to do is monitor a torrent from a home or office, log the IP addresses, and then trace back the IP to the ISP. Someone working for Sony Entertainment is not necessarily conducting their monitoring from Sony headquarters itself - it would be stupid to do that.

I think they offer zero security. The only way to be relatively safe while using bittorrent is to a) avoid copyrighted material b) share with friends c) use small, private trackers or d) avoid big name media that the industry is cashing in on. Uploading the latest Tom Cruise movie to torrentspy or isohunt or some other huge public tracker is dangerous even with blocklists.

The reason people who use blocklists have not been busted yet (and keep in mind many have - I spent alot of time as a moderator at bluetack and it was not uncommon) is due to the sheer number of people using bittorrent and the limited resources of the agents of mpaa/riaa.

Also keep in mind the IP ranges listed in blocklists are not always accurrate. Alot of compiling lists is just guess-work, really.


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Re: Safepeer Plugin for Azureus (Blocklists?) [Re: Vvellum]
    #5671636 - 05/25/06 05:37 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I read a bunch of whitepapers a while back that one of the "bad" companies released. In the white papers, they claim it only makes sense to go after the "first seeder". They monitor the downloading of the torrent to try and prove how many people downloaded the file. They can then tie finacial losses for each download back to the original seeder. They also download parts of the torrent to show that it was indeed copyrighted material being shared. All of this is done with the court system in mind. Because the courts are involved, and because they are using previous court cases to support their technology in court, they must be very careful in how they operate. Using a personal IP address/computer from home to track the information could have dire consequences in court. The defense lawyer, "How do you know a hacker didn't get into your computer at home while you were at work and change the information around to implicate my client?"

If you are downloading copyrighted material, then you are at risk. However, I would never claim that the blacklists are useless. They may only filter out 1% of the bad guys, but I would much rather have a 1 in 100 chance than no chance at all. (In other words, even a little help is better than no help.)

> Anyone can see the IP address of someone working on a torrent.

Not mine, but then I use a proxy network along with the blacklists. Much, much slower, but I feel pretty confident that a person would have a very difficult time isolating who I am.


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InvisibleOJK
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Re: Safepeer Plugin for Azureus (Blocklists?) [Re: Seuss]
    #5671899 - 05/25/06 08:40 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Seuss, how do you find proxies with the correct ports open to allow you route p2p traffic through them?


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Safepeer Plugin for Azureus (Blocklists?) [Re: OJK]
    #5671935 - 05/25/06 08:49 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Google search: "anonymous bittorent proxy" (minus the quotes)


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InvisibleOJK
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Re: Safepeer Plugin for Azureus (Blocklists?) [Re: Seuss]
    #5672032 - 05/25/06 09:25 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

thanks

and just to add to this thread, uTorrent supports blacklists through the use of ipfilter.dat

it's a little more labour intensive than the safepeer plugin for Azureus, but it's massively more efficient in terms of resource usage.


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Invisibleblink
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Re: Safepeer Plugin for Azureus (Blocklists?) [Re: Ythan]
    #5673806 - 05/25/06 05:07 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Ythan said:
http://www.bluetack.co.uk/config/spconfig.txt is the correct URL. It's showing 119,151 blocked IPs for me.




This is all I see

Code:
PG,http://www.bluetack.co.uk/config/splist.zip,splist *,1,splist-zip




weird.


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Re: Safepeer Plugin for Azureus (Blocklists?) [Re: blink]
    #5674041 - 05/25/06 06:04 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Thats all you should see.


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Invisibleblink
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Re: Safepeer Plugin for Azureus (Blocklists?) [Re: d33p]
    #5674504 - 05/25/06 08:17 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

then where's the blacklist?


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Re: Safepeer Plugin for Azureus (Blocklists?) [Re: blink]
    #5674736 - 05/25/06 09:25 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

did you try to put the url in your browser, it comes up with a fake error 404, or maybe a real one, but it isn't the same as all the others i get.

peace


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Re: Safepeer Plugin for Azureus (Blocklists?) [Re: blink]
    #5675181 - 05/25/06 11:23 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

blinkidiot said:
then where's the blacklist?




all i know is that i only see what you are talking about but on the bottom of my az client to the left of the down and upload speeds it says 119k IPs blocked so i know its working.


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OfflineYthanA
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Re: Safepeer Plugin for Azureus (Blocklists?) [Re: blink]
    #5675939 - 05/26/06 04:05 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Erm, look at the contents of the file.

PG,http://www.bluetack.co.uk/config/splist.zip,splist *,1,splist-zip

That zip contains the blocklist. It's 4.5MB of text which is why compression is used.


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InvisibleVvellum
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Re: Safepeer Plugin for Azureus (Blocklists?) [Re: Seuss]
    #5676623 - 05/26/06 10:51 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

I read a bunch of whitepapers a while back that one of the "bad" companies released. In the white papers, they claim it only makes sense to go after the "first seeder". They monitor the downloading of the torrent to try and prove how many people downloaded the file. They can then tie finacial losses for each download back to the original seeder.




Perhaps they track the original seeder, but they also bust people for joining the swarm (i.e. uploading) quite regularly.

Quote:

All of this is done with the court system in mind. Because the courts are involved, and because they are using previous court cases to support their technology in court, they must be very careful in how they operate. Using a personal IP address/computer from home to track the information could have dire consequences in court. The defense lawyer, "How do you know a hacker didn't get into your computer at home while you were at work and change the information around to implicate my client?"




Yeah, that sounds like an attorney's defense, but I dont see the difference between using a personal IP/computer from home and the corporate office. I'd bet they'd have the same setup (i.e. monitoring and tracking methods) and the same security methods that are just as prone to hackers. Most systems are vulnerable, no?

Quote:

If you are downloading copyrighted material, then you are at risk. However, I would never claim that the blacklists are useless. They may only filter out 1% of the bad guys, but I would much rather have a 1 in 100 chance than no chance at all. (In other words, even a little help is better than no help.)




Perhaps 1% is better than 0%, but that's hardly a security. If a condom was only 1% effective against preventing pregnancy or STDs, that would not be a decent security measure at all.

Quote:

Not mine, but then I use a proxy network along with the blacklists. Much, much slower, but I feel pretty confident that a person would have a very difficult time isolating who I am.




Yeah, that's definitely the way to go, but hardly anyone uses such measures and private networks. For all practical purposes, anyone can get your IP address from using bittorrent.

I still think that blocklists are just a "feel-good" security measure that isnt very effective and is easly circumvented by those who want to bust you.


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Re: Safepeer Plugin for Azureus (Blocklists?) [Re: Vvellum]
    #5693666 - 05/31/06 02:12 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

bi0 said:
Quote:

And they aren't just about a sense of security, they're quite effective the majority of the time.




do you really think the agents of the riaa and mpaa do not know about these blocklists? they could easily check to see if they're listed and then utiltize a non-blocked IP range.

false sense of security.




To acutally prove a suit in court they will need to have actually uploaded stuff to you. They do not bust people for just joining the swarm. They could try but they would loose. Its too easy to argue that the tracker put out faulty data(easily done and not really detrimental to long term swarm speeds) or that you joined by accident and proptly left. Fair use dictates that there is an imaginary line that you can use X ammount of a copywritten product for something and not have to pay. For them to successfully sue they have to show that you got more then that ammount.

Hence they need to download, and be able to prove you downloaded at leas enough to violate fair use. So they need you to download from them. To be very effective these enforcment actions need a serious ammount of bandwidth. Busting 1000 people requires a lot of bandwidth and some serious computering space to record ip traffic captures of everything sent.

A little napkin math:

tcp overhead runs between 92 and 93% so lets take the upper

93%

Now people are going to be downloading at 10k

10kilobytes * 1000 people * (1/ .93) = 10752k
Thats a little over a 10megabyte pipe also know as 100mbit
Thats not something you are likely to get outside of a datacenter.


Some of those IP's will be out of the country or in isp's that are non-responsive so there goes a large chunk of their time. explaining why there are not a thousand people with a notice every day. In fact Europe and the US have a relitively low percentage of piracy so we can assume the same with downloading.

Because of these higher then normal requirements the *IAA are looking at comercial internet hosting/access. They can't use dsl or cable without a shit ton of hassle. So if you block ip's that are not avaliable to home users you are pretty well protected. Not saying that they can't use dsl/cable just that its not worth it to them. They get their pound of flesh and scare the jebus out of lots of people so downloading is slowed. Thats really all the industry is after. They know they can't stop it. They just want to make MORE money then they are now.

Wow that was a long post. Haha.

I am not a laywer and I do not pretend to know all about fair use. The above comes from reading and listening to people more educated in this then me. However I could be wrong and do no take this a legal advice.

(did you know its illegal to give legal advice without a law degree ?)


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