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InvisibleoOghostriderOo
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Registered: 03/30/06
Posts: 25
Re: Need help with doing a whole room for fruiting [Re: hyphae]
    #5674209 - 05/25/06 06:52 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

nice pics hyphae, can i get a lil more info on that setup, tray size/depth?, substrate and strain? casing type and depth? if this info is already posted somewere else just point me there....thank  :thumbup: :mushroom2:

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Offlinehyphae
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Re: Need help with doing a whole room for fruiting [Re: oOghostriderOo]
    #5674488 - 05/25/06 08:14 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

You asked for it you got it!

Orissa pins on straw/horse poo/spawnmate nocced with milo/millet/cracked corn/corncob/brf.
The trays were cased with a 60% non-nutritional soiless potting mix(sphagnum peat moss, fine vermiculite, and perlite) and 40% coarse vermiculite with a handful of crushed oyster shell. Moistened, covered and baked in oven till a core temp. of 170F was maintained for 2 hours.

The trays are 11"w x 22''l x 2"d (what is it, 2.54 cm/inch?) seedling flats available at any greenhouse. They are also available at garden supply sections at WalMart and such, but more expensive. Getting them at a greenhouse used is much cheaper.


My friend started using them because he works at a greenhouse and they were readily available and free.
Some people like to pile the substrate thicker in which case these trays wouldn't work for them, but my friend maintains that a 1 1/2'' to 1 3/4'' substrate depth, properly supplimented, cased 1/4''-1/2" thick, is sufficient for 3-4 flushes of good sized fruits.


Plus, if contams were to take hold in one tray, it can be easily removed, saving the remainder of the harvest. They fit nicely three to a shelf on the plastic shelving one sees at Walmart and are easy to handle and care for. Sort of a modular system. He rotates them out when they are spent, replacing them with new trays. The old trays are thrown in his friend's compost pile where they put out sporadic flushes as long as they are kept moist and shaded.


The emptied trays are washed with dish soap, rinsed and placed into a chlorine bath where they remain until they are needed again. Just seems to work well for him.

LOL COCO. At times my backyard looks like a campground. Friends and family between shows don't you know.

Don't forget to get the clear plastic lids for them. They retain humidity without having to humidify the entire spawn/substrate run room. Open them once or twice a day for ventilation.

My friend was lucky enough to obtain a very knowledgeable mentor in the project back in the FF days which flattened the learning curve considerably.

Addendum to SpawnMate use.

Experimentation has shown that SM must be pasteurized at some point before use. All trays supplimented with "raw" SM contamed within two days. Cobweb AND Trich! Ewww.
Experimentation was prompted by SM manufacturer's advice to store at 35F. Question was: given this statement by manufacturer, would heat produced by pasteurization negate its effect?
Findings in addition to the aforementioned contam problems seem to indicate that the product delivers as promised when pasteurized as evidenced by accelerated mycellial growth and substantially increased production.

My friend puts it in with the screened dung, moistens it, covers it and pasteurizes it in the oven. Then mixes that with pasteurized straw and noccs it with the colonized grain.

Dunno how the bleach/lime dealio would affect the product.

FYI

Mycofile, my friend hardly knows where to begin with a response except to say thank you very much.
Lotta questions, but here goes.
1) Isolates blended in Eberbach for 2 quart bagged grain innoculations.
2)Basement, 8' x12' chamber constructed of 2"x4" covered with 6 mil plastic sheeting.
3)Environmental controls are as follows.
Humidification:
Two ultrasonics provide humidification. Alternate additions of iodine(couple drops/gal.) and hydrogen peroxide (1/4 cup/gallon) to keep it clean.
Air exchange:
The chamber is positively pressurized with the use of a squirrel cage fan hooked up to a HEPA filtered mixing box to mix cleaned outside air with humid inside air via an adjustable damper. This relieves some of the strain on the humidifiers while maintaining high humidity. Also, it makes it easier to maintain a good temperature range especially during the cold winter months without running up the electric bills for the oil filled electric heater.
4)Any water condensing within the chamber is drained through a slit cut in the plastic at the lowest point of the room. From there it simply runs into the floor drain located a couple of feet away.
Once again thanks for the compliments. Like I stated earlier I had a good teacher and an an extreme interest (some have said obsessive) in the subject matter.

Jojoba: Gotta love National Geographic's site for pics and articles.
We subscribe to the magazine, but the web site has all kinds of cool photo galleries to peruse and gather from. Check it out.

Mycofile:

Thanks for the info phillindogged. I'd like to stress to the other readers what you said about the mixing box. The ability to recirculate air, and mix it in controlled proportions with fresh air, is a great thing. It's the only way to fine tune air exchange rates, while keeping constant circulation or turbidity of the air in the growroom. This means that even though you may actually be introducing no fresh air at all or very little (for example during spawn run or casing colonization) the air in the room is constantly moving, not allowing contams to grow. Also, the constantly moving air facilitates evaporation (controlled by the humidity and fan speed) which supports better fruit maturation via a capilarry effect.

And you already mentioned the stress it removes from the H/AC/humidity systems, by mixing the air gradually rather than in quick bursts which must be heavily conditioned.

Just curious phillindogged, could you describe or post pics of your mixing box? I've never found a good source for a ready made one, short of buying a FP class III air distro system for a couple grand. Making them is various levels of complicated depending on ones innate handyman-ness.

Also, what about the air distro system/lack there of? Did you bother with the perforated ducting running the length of the chamber to encourage entrainment, or does the air just come in one end and find it's way out some vents/imperfect seals?

Oh yeah, and it allows you to PLAY with air exchange rates, and therefore co2 levels.

PD, you may want to try somethings along the following. We know that high co2 levels cause long stems and small caps. We also know that low co2 levels are needed to initiate pinning. But rather than do the standard, lower co2 levels at pinning, and keep them low, you can play with them due to the control you have over your system. Basically, lots of air exchange at pinning to encourage pins to form. Once pins are set, during fruit maturation, give periods of decreased fresh air so co2 levels can build. don't go overboard, or you'll get skinny stems and small caps, so make sure you give fresh air periodically. Specifics will varry according to your set-up, air to bed ratios etc, so you have to play. But basically, what you are doing is using periodicly elevated co2 levels during fruit maturation to stretch the stems, but giving enough fresh air often enough to keep the stems thick and the caps proportionate. The key is to keep the air moving at all times via recirculation, letting the co2 build over a period (couple hours-1/2 a day even), then resume a normal air exchange rate. How often and how long to do this is what needs to be determined. I'd try one of the following:

1. Set the fresh air rate to it's minimum fresh air setting (full recirculation if possible) for several hours once a day after the fruits are about an inch tall. The exact amount of time is what you need to determine, a close eye on your fruits will tell you how long it takes to affect them.

2. Several hours of recirculation, followed by an equal period of normal exchange, repeating the process. Example, 6 hours recirculating- 6 hours normal fresh air damper setting, repeat cycle.

Yields can be improved notably once you get the hang of your specific situation, producing much taller and heavier fruits.

You can only do this with a mixing box which allows for recirculation of air, and you really need to pay close attention to your fruits to master the technique. But, considering how well you seem to have a feel for what your fruits need, I think you could have great results with the method.

Also, with this type of system, lots of little tips can be applied.

1. If you water the casing while it still has fruits on it, setting the damper to full fresh air and turning off the hummers will dry the fruits, but not the casing, preventing or eliminating fruitbody parasites like bacterial blotch or strains of trich which can attack caps. Resume normal paramaters once the fruits have dried a little.

2. Before harvesting, water the casing. This prevents large divits of casing from coming up with the fruits. Again, increase fresh air setting and turn off hummers for a little while prior to picking. You will damage the casing less during harvesting, and the fruits will have dried a little making them much less delicate to handling/cleaning etc, and expedite the drying process somewhat.

Actually, thats all I can write right now, I'll try to get back on and talk about some more features unique to this type of system in a little while.

Regrettably the digicam was unavailable at time of harvest and they had to be harvested. So, no pics at harvest. sad.gif
I can tell you however, the fruits were thick as thieves. biggrin.gif Really dehydrated the substrate. So the trays were watered down real good with a garden pump type sprayer using peroxidated water and the casing layer was patched immediately following harvest.
Second flush began to pin yesterday morning. While not as thick, the pins are larger which is to be expected. Will get more pics of second break to post jojoba. wink.gif

Mixing box was purchased by mentor several years ago from Fungi Perfecti as part of a complete fruiting chamber setup nobody. $$$$. Having 25 years of experience as a fitter/welder though, I think I can build them if I get measurements and make templates for the sheet metal parts. Would have to have access to a sheet metal brake to bend the parts though. The assembly would be a cinch I think. I've been tossing about the idea of constructing them. Dunno though, I've got a lot on my plate right now.

Psst, klankey! *PD hands klankey some TP*

From a student of the HFA (highroller Fungal Arts ):

He isolates a pure strain on agar that is then blended in an Eberbach [see 9er Tek for a home-made version w/ a house-hold blender]. This solution is shot into 2 quart spawn bags containing: red milo, white millet, cracked corn, corncob bedding, and brown rice flour. The approximate recipe he gave for 18 qts of spawn was: a few qts. corncob bedding [maybe 4?], a couple of qts cracked corn [2], and a 3:1 ratio of milo:millet [9 & 3 respectively if we assume 4 qts bedding]. To this mix, "a couple of handfuls" of BRF was added . So, the mix is something like 9:3:2:4:[0.25?] milo:millet:cracked corn:corncob bedding:BRF. He states that the BRF is added after the grains are cooked, but before they're pc'ed. I would assume the bedding is added at this time also, it would absorb too much water cooking with the grains, but I don't see anywhere that he states this specifically. Fully colonized bags of this material are used to inoculate a wheat straw & dung mix that is prepared as follows: "well-rotted" [old] horse dung is collected and thoroughly fan-dried on a tarp. It is then crumbled and screened [see this page in the archives for good pics of this]. The dung is then moistened and loaded into foil baking pans that are covered tightly with aluminum foil. These are placed in a 350*F oven. The dung's core temp should be monitored with a meat themometer so that it doesn't ever go above 180*F. highroller recommends 170*F for 2 hours; I find that large (9 x 12 x 3") roasting pans full of moist dung will consistently reach 170*F at exactly 30 minutes on the middile rack of my oven... but many ovens are different! Always use a thermometer to make sure. Once they reach 170*F, the oven should be turned to the lowest setting, or even completely off. As long as you keep it closed the oven will stay warm enough to keep that core temp of 170*F for quite a while, though you may need to turn the oven back on for just a moment if the temp starts to drop. I should note here that these helpful hints I'm giving are not actually sanctioned by the HFA, just what I've learned through experience After 2 hours @ 170*F, remove the pans of dung and allow them to cool in a clean place. Once cool, this dung is mixed with drained water-pasteurized straw. Here is the true secret of the HFA method: the oven pasteurized dung must be made up with just the right moisture content, so that when mixed with the wet straw it sucks up the excess moisture and they balance out perfectly! Easier said than done Realize also, that the dung will probably dry out somewhat in the oven. How much depends on the dung itself, how well you process it, how much water you add, how long you let that soak in, how tightly you wrap the top of the pan with foil, millions of things Much like casing moisture, you just gotta feel it out. This applies also to draining the straw. I personally just strain the water off with the lid until it no longer drips, then transfer it to a fresh black trash bag tied off & hung up in the clean room. It's still pretty damp once cooled, but I have my dung formula worked out so that they blend perfectly into the right moisture level. The dryish dung clings to the damp straw rather than falling through it, a problem I had at first. Once you get the moisture in the dung/straw correct, you're all set. Spawn with one colonized bag of grain spawn and 2 cups of Spawnmate per 5 22 x 11 x 2" seedling flats filled with 2 baking tins & a 22-qt stockpot's worth of straw.

And then, you are growing shrooms the highroller way. Which is technically nothing new, but very admirable nonetheless.


--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"

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InvisibleoOghostriderOo
Stranger
Registered: 03/30/06
Posts: 25
Re: Need help with doing a whole room for fruiting [Re: hyphae]
    #5674583 - 05/25/06 08:41 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

exxxelent...just what i was looking for, very nice writeup thanx :thumbup: :mushroom2:

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Invisibletoole
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Re: Need help with doing a whole room for fruiting [Re: oOghostriderOo]
    #5674587 - 05/25/06 08:43 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Very nice write up.

:mushroom2: :mushroom2: :mushroom2: :mushroom2: :mushroom2:


--------------------
-the adventures of suse and prescott.9-

..and the neverending triscut of doom !

Edited by toole (05/25/06 08:43 PM)

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Offlinedudefromaz
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Registered: 05/08/06
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Re: Need help with doing a whole room for fruiting [Re: toole]
    #5674771 - 05/25/06 09:38 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

pretty sweet hyphae....


--------------------
Remember, the best drug, is a natural drug.....

Peace, Fratirnityishly, Smoke Da Stuff, Special Chocolate



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