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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

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Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Fear and Respect
    #5664759 - 05/23/06 02:33 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Fear and respect are both useful methods for gaining compliance from others, but one is better.

Parent/Child
In the case of a parent and child, the child who obeys because he loves and doesn't want to disappoint his parents is happier, better behaved, and better adjusted than the child who obeys out of fear of punishment. This is because the urge to obey a parent who is respected comes from within instead of being forced by threat of punishment.

When an opportunity to skirt the rules with little chance of being caught presents itself, the respectful child will abide, while the fearful one will probe the limits of his confinement.

The good parents' goal should be to keep discipline to the absolute minimum required; none at all if possible. Only in this way will the child respect and willingly obey rather than fear and seek to usurp his parents' authority.

Boss/Employee
This theme repeats in the case of a boss and an employee. The employee oppressed and whose creativity is stifled by rigid rules and a boss more interested in catching rule violations than in fostering a healthy corporate culture will count it as a good thing every time he can sneak out of the office early or arrive late without anyone noticing. The employee working in a supportive non-punitive environment will seek to gain the praise of his superiors he respects rather than to fool his overbearing boss by breaking the rules and getting away with it.

Cop/Citizen
The theme occurs yet again in the case of law enforcement. When our leaders invent rules that are vague, subject to interpretation, contrary to common sense and well established facts and which are routinely broken without consequence by those in charge of enforcement, it undermines the respect police need to function well. Without respect for the police, citizens avoid rather than engage them.

Mod/Online Community
And finally, I see this theme repeat in online communities where mods are appointed by fiat and are not elected or otherwise held accountable to the population they oversee and who almost never even bother to post in the forums they're charged with monitoring. They gain compliance the easy way: by making banning and thread closures the rule rather than the exception.

It forces compliance, yes, but in the end, it breeds resentment and undermines the health of the community when absent moderators step in at their leisure more often to close threads and dole out bannings than to open original threads of discussion or participate in an existing one.

What do you think?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Fear and Respect [Re: Diploid]
    #5664775 - 05/23/06 02:37 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
Mod/Online Community
And finally, I see this theme repeat in online communities where mods are appointed by fiat and are not elected or otherwise held accountable to the population they oversee and who almost never even bother to post in the forums they're charged with monitoring. They gain compliance the easy way: by making banning and thread closures the rule rather than the exception.

It forces compliance, yes, but in the end, it breeds resentment and undermines the health of the community when absent moderators step in at their leisure more often to close threads and dole out bannings than to open original threads of discussion or participate in an existing one.

What do you think?




Makes sense, but I think that this forum in particular is probably the least moderated forum on the website, and that is the way it should be. We manage ourselves quite effectively.

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Offlinekotik
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Re: Fear and Respect [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5664806 - 05/23/06 02:43 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

diploid for mod?


--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.

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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Fear and Respect [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5664847 - 05/23/06 02:51 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

We manage ourselves quite effectively.

We do it the right way, by consensus through peer-pressure, not enforcement.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Fear and Respect [Re: Diploid]
    #5664858 - 05/23/06 02:53 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Did something happen in MR&P?


--------------------

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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Fear and Respect [Re: Diploid]
    #5664887 - 05/23/06 02:57 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I'd just like to point out what thing:

While a child is not suposed to obey the parents blindly, it must learn its limitations. If you let a child decide everything, pretty soon it will think it has more abilities that it actually has. People in general have to learn that they are generally stupid and have to consult and think deep before acting, and learn to listen. That goes both for children and parents


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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InvisibleVeritas
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Posts: 11,089
Re: Fear and Respect [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5664894 - 05/23/06 02:58 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

People in general have to learn that they are generally stupid




:lol: :lol: :rofl:

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Fear and Respect [Re: Diploid]
    #5664978 - 05/23/06 03:12 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Maybe it's that simple. Let me ask you this. I am involved with a young person who because of their early childhood relationships is resistant to any dicipline whatsoever. They believe that they are entitled to be taken care of and that others needs do not matter too much. Neither dicipline nor unconditional support seems to dent their pattern of behavior. Now Diploid, how do you deal with this?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Posts: 38,062
Re: Fear and Respect [Re: Icelander]
    #5665010 - 05/23/06 03:18 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

the tiger is a wild thing -(undisciplined)
it's wildness is beautiful
and
it is alone because of the rage, a beautiful raging and stomping and stalking.
the stripes also beautiful and scary
but
alone.
to be with people it must act more like a lamb but remember that each person is also a tiger.
respecting the spirit in each other we need to see the tiger in ourselves.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Fear and Respect [Re: redgreenvines]
    #5665028 - 05/23/06 03:21 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I think you have raised girls. :grin:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Fear and Respect [Re: Veritas]
    #5665059 - 05/23/06 03:26 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
Quote:

People in general have to learn that they are generally stupid




:lol: :lol: :rofl:




well aren't they? I mean an avarage man out there has 3 brain centers:
1. beer center
2. sports center
3. fuck center

sometimes they get a short circuit in the brain and develop some emotions and thoughts, but the drunk leukocytes in the blood quickly destroy those parts of the brain.

The avarage women, well, they marry the avarage man.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

Edited by OldWoodSpecter (05/23/06 03:28 PM)

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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Fear and Respect [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5665086 - 05/23/06 03:31 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Methinks you over-generalize. :wink:

While those of average intelligence may not compare to the shining brightness of your brain-wattage, they are a far cry from 'stupid.'  Perhaps "unmotivated" or "dumbed-down" would be a more accurate description?

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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Fear and Respect [Re: Veritas]
    #5665147 - 05/23/06 03:39 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
Methinks you over-generalize. :wink:

While those of average intelligence may not compare to the shining brightness of your brain-wattage, they are a far cry from 'stupid.'  Perhaps "unmotivated" or "dumbed-down" would be a more accurate description?




Well maybe I'm living in a country with below avarage IQ, or something (apologies to Tesla) but that's the impression I've got.
I hope americans are smarter than that, because they run the world, but then again, what I see on TV in american shows really makes me realise people are same everywhere, even have the same habits, way of thinking etc.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Fear and Respect [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5665178 - 05/23/06 03:42 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Don't judge all Americans by what is on TV...I think.  :tongue:

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Offlineleery11
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Re: Fear and Respect [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5665200 - 05/23/06 03:46 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:

Veritas said:
Methinks you over-generalize. :wink:

While those of average intelligence may not compare to the shining brightness of your brain-wattage, they are a far cry from 'stupid.'  Perhaps "unmotivated" or "dumbed-down" would be a more accurate description?




Well maybe I'm living in a country with below avarage IQ, or something (apologies to Tesla) but that's the impression I've got.
I hope americans are smarter than that, because they run the world, but then again, what I see on TV in american shows really makes me realise people are same everywhere, even have the same habits, way of thinking etc.




the tv is people's unconscious mind.

people are indeed stupid. stupid means that you are smart but choose not to be. people are stupid for watching tv all the time, for getting extremely drunk when they know it's not right and this night they need to stay sober or just have a few beers.

for having unprotected sex because it's cool even though they know 1/4 of all college students has an STD (which must indicate some level of stupidity since college kids are edcuated on how to prevent sexual disease?)

people drive stupidly and tailgate even though they know it takes several car distances to stop in time. they KNOW but they don't act upon it.

people vote for John Bushy or George W Kerry even though they know both are a poor choice and that this nation's voting system is useless unless third parties (and fourth and fifth) are brought into power.

people are stupid. they are stupid precisely because they have smart intellects, basic and decent levels of education, but often times fail to act responsibly.

now this is a very intolerant thing to say. becasue this is just one side of the coin. this is the bad side of the coin. it's not always this way.

but..... you know what. the only function of the tv is to make us stupid........ at one point the Simpsons was satire..... you'd look at Homer and go "what an idiot" now you look at Homer and you imitate him.... you gorge into a bag of chips and go MMMMMMM and do the Homer voice and worship TV just like he does.

and yet HE'S STILL ON THE AIR...... it's remarkable that the Simpsons has lasted so long.....

it's remarkable that things like Deal or No Deal are entertainment. ooooh pick boxes with money in them! No skill involved! At least you could have trivia or some sort of talent ..... in play ?

-----------------------------------------------

I'm going to have to let go of all this intolerance eventually though but hey.... anyway...... it's everything wrong with America in the box of everyone's house.

The thing about personal responibility is we don't have any because we aren't treated like adults. We let authorities make every decision for us and there is little room for dissent or political activism in the mainstreamed culture. If you take a child and make all decisions for it the child will live in your home well into his 30s.

That's kind of how us Americans are.

If you let a child be an equal, for the most part, but set up reasonable boundaries which are never strict and solid, rather.... tolerant and caring..... and you say "I know you want candy but you cannot have any right now. We will let you pick some out later if you behave." or something like that.... then the child has some choice.

The child also has limitations, but they are not a cross to carry... unlike the limitations of living in this society.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!

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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Fear and Respect [Re: Veritas]
    #5665242 - 05/23/06 03:57 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
Don't judge all Americans by what is on TV...I think.  :tongue:




Hey, I also talk with you people every day, I probably more talk with americans than my own people during the day.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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InvisibleVeritas
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Posts: 11,089
Re: Fear and Respect [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5665247 - 05/23/06 03:57 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Don't judge all Americans by what is posted on the Shroomery, then. :lol:

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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Fear and Respect [Re: Veritas]
    #5665261 - 05/23/06 03:59 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
Don't judge all Americans by what is posted on the Shroomery, then. :lol:




Other forums, I ment.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: Fear and Respect [Re: Diploid]
    #5665278 - 05/23/06 04:02 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

fear and respect are often confused to be the same thing. They are not the same.

There are some people who have no fear and some people who have no respect.

One who has no fear cannot be controlled by it. One who has no respect is a fool who doesn't realize he is a prisoner.

Thus, repect others, but don't fear them.

Fear is the mind killer.

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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: Fear and Respect [Re: Icelander]
    #5665289 - 05/23/06 04:05 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Maybe it's that simple. Let me ask you this. I am involved with a young person who because of their early childhood relationships is resistant to any dicipline whatsoever. They believe that they are entitled to be taken care of and that others needs do not matter too much. Neither dicipline nor unconditional support seems to dent their pattern of behavior. Now Diploid, how do you deal with this?




perhaps the one you are involved with is actually teaching you a lesson :smirk:

you just don't want to hear it.

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