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OfflineOatman2000
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Re: Who says PF tek? (rant) [Re: mikeownow]
    #5661438 - 05/22/06 07:22 PM (18 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

mikeownow said:
Oatman2000

HOW the hell did you contam so much lol!




some on accident... some on purpose. And Strick lazieness
it happens when you make alot of jars, and wait a long time before taking them out to the ol' shed to clean.... :wink:


--------------------
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Offlinehyphae
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Re: Who says PF tek? (rant) [Re: Oatman2000]
    #5661512 - 05/22/06 07:42 PM (18 years, 11 days ago)

BTW Road's the one who uses PFTek to test strains as well as I. PFTek is simple and painless and gives me tissue cultures quickly. PFTek is forgiving for those who are not myco inclined bro plain and simple.


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Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
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OfflineHippieChick
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Re: Who says PF tek? (rant) [Re: hyphae]
    #5661556 - 05/22/06 07:55 PM (18 years, 11 days ago)

:thumbup:

Throw me in that boat . I test everything on BRF cakes before using it .

Also , I started on BRF cakes to get my feet wet and see everything and try everything out and hone my skills first :grin:

Broke up cakes and cased to get the bugs out . It's far different to see things up close and first hand then it is to look at pics on the board .

Besides , I still enjoy watching a cake pin and fruit :thumbup:

Peace,Love,Happiness and Harmony
:heart: Hippie Chick  :mushroom2:


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Edited by HippieChick (05/22/06 10:52 PM)

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OfflineOatman2000
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Re: Who says PF tek? (rant) [Re: HippieChick]
    #5662230 - 05/22/06 10:24 PM (18 years, 11 days ago)

i agree with hc. You can pop off a batch of Pf cakes quickly, without soaking for 24 hrs.

the last batch that i made got super wet... that's why they contam'd.

The grains i made with the same LC look fabulous! 


(i love my new magnetic stirer) :wink:


--------------------
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Invisiblemonstermitch
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Re: Who says PF tek? (rant) [Re: Oatman2000]
    #5662304 - 05/22/06 10:49 PM (18 years, 11 days ago)

.

Edited by monstermitch (05/22/06 11:09 PM)

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Offlineaqualung23
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Re: Who says PF tek? (rant) [Re: Rahz]
    #10176412 - 04/16/09 07:50 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Thanks for the post. It's some good food for thought. I am just about ready to harvest my first grow using pf, and I have ended up putting in much more effort and $ than I thought, and now I think I am going to modify my TIT and try some small casings before I take on grain. Your points are all relavant, but don't forget that the reason newbs are directed to pf is probably mainly to do a grow with a high chance of success. Some people might give up if the spent several weeks on a grow that went wrong. I'm going to start doing research.

    Cheers!

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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Who says PF tek? (rant) [Re: aqualung23]
    #10180664 - 04/16/09 08:39 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

PF is fairly straight forward. Reading up on grains, there are a slew of teks, and most of them only cover part of the grow (which is good). There's more reading involved, more decisions on what procedures to use, probably more legwork involved finding some of the supplies, but to me, that's all part of the fun. If done right, the chance of an early contam should be close to zero.

This is a pictorial I did that may give you some ideas: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5073125#5073125 Though I could have been clearer. If you read the thread, you should be able to figure out what I'm doing. The sealant can be used either on the top or bottom side of the tyvek, it matters not either way.

Other tips for sterility, soak the grain for 36-48 hours, don't bother simmering. With no heat, there will be no burst grains. The grain will begin to grow stuff on the second day, but it's all going in the PC anyway. A long soak insures that all contams have germinated and are vulnerable to the heat. PCed at 15 PSI for 1.5 hours, those grains will be contam free. This, along with the injection ports from LC to grain jars, and your chance of a contamination is now super low. I take care to use sterile syringes, flame them, and wipe them down with alcohol just prior to entry in a port. I also wipe the ports down with alcohol, but I make no attempt to clean my work environment.

Good growing Mr. Tull.:thumbup:

Edit: The tubing in the LC jar lid is 3/8" automotive vacuum tubing. Also not shown, I sealed the tubing to the lid on both sides. Both that and the RTV sealant can be found at any auto parts store. I have read that other silicones will also hold up to PC temps.


--------------------
rahz

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Edited by Rahz (04/16/09 08:47 PM)

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Offlinewasting_space
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Re: Who says PF tek? (rant) [Re: MushroomJoe]
    #10180802 - 04/16/09 08:57 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

I like to use the half pint cake method when I am producing specifically for spore prints....  If you are an old-school cultivator you can still appreciate the nostalgic value of doing the PF method and remembering the small add that would be published in hightimes back in 1997 and the 10 buck syringes that were sold...  To this day I have never found a spore supplier that even compared to that of Professor Fanaticus... Oh the good old days of yore......Does anyone remember the strains he carried...  I am a little foggy but I believe they were only amazonian(pf clasic) B+ and Treasure Coast...  Granted the method of cultivation is extremely outdated but that specific method introduced millions of people to the world of mycology...


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OfflineBugzy
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Re: Who says PF tek? (rant) [Re: Rahz]
    #10180821 - 04/16/09 08:59 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

I see both sides, but its still like arguing whats the best beer.

Purely a subjective topic. If you want pf, go pf, if you want bulk, go bulk. All depends on what your goal is, preference, and ability

Its your own fault if you expect the opposite outcome of your method(s), just as it is your own fault for not reading in the first place.

And for the ones who still ride the short bus home..... "learn before you guess" and dont grow PF expecting Bulk results and vice versa.

I think noobes go through this site and see pf tek, then bulk tek and start thinking "PF Bulk!"- trying too get mass yields with the simplest tek and least work, mixing and matching teks/methods.



Yes I am a noob, but Im not retarded. I read the lines in between the lines before anything.


--------------------
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OfflineOutThisLife
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Re: Who says PF tek? (rant) [Re: Bugzy]
    #10181818 - 04/16/09 11:40 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

I'm just starting and it's pretty hard to find an in-depth guide for other teks. I know what to do w/ BRF on the back of my hand now I've read so much and there's so much information on it. But grains, casings, wtf it rapes my mind :P

Reading, reading and reading. I'm starting in a few days and I need to get this right >< I don't really want to do cakes.

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Offlinebudzeno
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Re: Who says PF tek? (rant) [Re: OutThisLife]
    #10182565 - 04/17/09 02:19 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

I would like to say, while on the subject of what not to do, that TiT's for incubating are more trouble then there worth. When i was first starting out in this hobby I made one. The water got contam,it was hard to control the heat, and on top of that they look suspicious as hell. Plus all I could think is fire hazard when I had one.

I just leave my stuff on the shelf now, no worries and it seems like they colonize quicker to me.:eek:

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InvisibleFractalXplora
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Re: Who says PF tek? (rant) [Re: budzeno] * 1
    #10182613 - 04/17/09 02:28 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

how is moisture content with grain hard? bullshit, boil em, let stream rise and stir,wait half hour if you cant't get that right you should seriously consider giving up. lol. Its not rocket science, if it feels wet, its TOO wet.
:eek:
I agree with the OP, why sweat over PF tek,. slow, pointless and harder than grain!!!!!

Ive done both before, and have to say, theres more to fuk up using pf tek.


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Invisibleexplosiveoxygen
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Re: Who says PF tek? (rant) [Re: Rahz]
    #10704302 - 07/19/09 02:30 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

After incubation in jars, can't you just break up a cake or two and have it grow into a bulk substrate after casing?


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Who says PF tek? (rant) [Re: explosiveoxygen]
    #10712061 - 07/20/09 09:42 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Yes you can. A healthy cake can be used to seed a bulk substrate. If you have a cheese grater, that might help break things up. I would use the side with the biggest holes.

It is something to play with.

But grain is easier IMO, with the small investment of a 12 quart, or larger, pressure cooker. A nod to FractalXplora, but if you're a grain newb, and your cooking, there are some lessons to be learned that can only be learned with experience. Since heated water has the potential to hydrate grains past what they would normally experience in nature, it is possible to fuck up until you get the cook times right. If at first you don't succeed, try again. Eventually you will get it.

Or, there is another way. There is a way to prepare grains, that even a newb can succeed at on the first attempt. Granted, your lid setup, culture, and inoculation technique, must be "good", but this method is guaranteed to produce well hydrated grain with no possibility of under, or over hydration.

Step 1: deposit grain into container. (1/2 jars worth for each jar)
Step 2: Fill container with water until grain is submerged by 2 inches.
Step 3: Wait 36-48 hours.
Step 4: Drain grain for at least 5 minutes.
Step 5: Put grain in quart jars, on the easy side of 2/3s full (if you have a small ammount left over that's ok) and cook for 1.5 hours at 15 PSI.

Agar whispered that into my ear.

The grain may be clean and not show much sign of activity. The grain may be dirty, and will either froth a bit, or begin to grow stuff on top of the water since we're working with 36+ hour soak times. This is not a problem. The PC kills all, especially when the grain is fully hydrated with "long" soak times. If for some reason biological activity during the soak stage is a problem, either place the container somewhere it won't bother you, deal with it like a man, or add a cup of peroxide to the container to keep activity at bay. Personally, I let the grain soak in a bucket, in my kitchen, and strain it in the sink.:thumbup:

None of this has anything to do with the success rate of the 5 step grain tek listed above. Follow the 5 steps and the grain will be properly hydrated. And as has been mentioned elsewhere, if there is biological activity in your bucket, that's just more well cooked buffet items for your mycelium.

Beyond that, my two questions would be: Got inoculation ports? Flame and wipe the needle with alcohol?

If so, your chances of success on the first try are sky high.


--------------------
rahz

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I am      I feel      I do     I love I speak    I see    I know


“Science advances one funeral at a time”
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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Who says PF tek? (rant) [Re: Rahz] * 1
    #10712163 - 07/20/09 10:03 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:

Other tips for sterility, soak the grain for 36-48 hours, don't bother simmering. With no heat, there will be no burst grains. The grain will begin to grow stuff on the second day, but it's all going in the PC anyway. A long soak insures that all contams have germinated and are vulnerable to the heat.





I'd suggest 24 hours MAX for soaking.  I've even shortened that lately.  Many endospores germinate during the soak and form new endospores within hours, so a long soak time is actually counter-productive.  You could easily end up with more endospores than you started with.  A four to five hour soak in HOT tap water will ensure the grains have softened up enough that they won't burst when you bring them to a boil, and that should be enough to get some of the endospores at least hydrated, if not germinated and they'll get killed easier in the PC.
RR


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OfflineEnjoywho
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Re: Who says PF tek? (rant) [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #10712214 - 07/20/09 10:15 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

There any way you can pm me a good thorough grain tek? Thanks


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Who says PF tek? (rant) [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #10712221 - 07/20/09 10:16 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I wouldn't suggest my way is the only method, but it works well, and is what I personally would recommend. Results speak for themselves.

I shoot for results and less effort. Dump grain in bucket. Soak grain for 36-48 hours. Strain grain for at least 5 minutes. Cook grain at 15 PSI for 1.5 hours. It doesn't get much easier than that. After learning to do this, the last thing I'm going to do is soak, and then bother with cooking, and straining a boiling pot. Just soak and PC.

I would guess that a clinical trial would prove that endospores would not be a concern if my advice is followed as stated.


--------------------
rahz

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I am      I feel      I do     I love I speak    I see    I know


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InvisibleTacoHerder
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Re: Who says PF tek? (rant) [Re: Rahz]
    #10712287 - 07/20/09 10:29 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I dont even soak for hours. just use this method and its worked everytime.  http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8508523#Post8508523]


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Who says PF tek? (rant) [Re: TacoHerder]
    #10712318 - 07/20/09 10:35 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

That's a good tek if followed properly. More than one way to go about it.

Sounds like more effort though, but to each their own. The point is, follow the 5 steps above and the grain will be properly hydrated, period. If you're in a hurry, and 36-48 hours is too long to wait, other methods are available.


--------------------
rahz

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I am      I feel      I do     I love I speak    I see    I know


“Science advances one funeral at a time”
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InvisibleKrayton
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Re: Who says PF tek? (rant) [Re: Rahz]
    #10712487 - 07/20/09 11:17 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Why suggest PF tek to newbs? Simple: there's so much information on it, and since so many people do in fact start that way, you can get a lot of good advice when you need it. It's a classic, too, which for some people (myself included) is good enough to warrant at least one attempt. From someone who pulled 850 grams fresh off his first twelve cakes, you can't say that PF doesn't have the potential to give the well-read newb a decent first harvest.

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