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InvisibledizZy_bOy
stranger thanyou

Registered: 11/16/01
Posts: 206
Re: Guess Swami's Sign [Re: Swami]
    #567414 - 03/01/02 11:38 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)

you sign is only a basis for your personality, you life may shape it in other ways if the experiences are drastic enough.

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InvisibleJared
Stranger
Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/22/01
Posts: 8,783
Re: Guess Swami's Sign [Re: Swami]
    #567547 - 03/02/02 05:32 AM (22 years, 3 months ago)

Roll a 6 sided die 10 times, don't expect to see the pyramid.

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OfflineTannis
ZoneTrooper
Registered: 12/13/01
Posts: 508
Loc: MD.USA
Last seen: 21 years, 2 months
Re: Guess Swami's Sign [Re: Swami]
    #567650 - 03/02/02 10:38 AM (22 years, 3 months ago)

I'll keep the gloves ready old buddy.....

Until next time.....

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OfflineTannis
ZoneTrooper
Registered: 12/13/01
Posts: 508
Loc: MD.USA
Last seen: 21 years, 2 months
Re: Guess Swami's Sign [Re: Swami]
    #567663 - 03/02/02 11:01 AM (22 years, 3 months ago)

So you don't like interpretation, ok, care to play a game (for clarification)?


Now put the gloves down for a minute and everybody go back to their corners....

Lets pretend that Swami is right and has all the answers. And lets say that Tannis and some other folks out here just don't get it and waste belief in something of no value like Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.

Remember, this is just a game to get some clarification.

If you are right and we are wrong why do you need to convince us that our belief has no validity to it. Wouldn't you be like an adult looking over children who can't and don't know any better.

If right is right, and truth is self evident, it doesn't need to be defended...it just is--- no matter what anyone says...

Ah-oh I think I heard the bell go off....

Seriously, though, help me understand. You obviously have strong convictions and beliefs but I feel that if I state an opinion that is slightly different than yours that's going to result in a fight. I'm I getting the wrong picture?

Let me explain my temperment...I state my opinion and it doesn't matter whether anyone agrees or disagrees with it. Its just the way I see things.

Well, its been fun but my mommy says I have to come in and take my bath......
I look forward to your response and hope it helps me understand better where you're coming from...

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Offlinealphatrion
journeyman
Registered: 08/01/01
Posts: 64
Last seen: 19 years, 10 months
Re: Guess Swami's Sign [Re: Swami]
    #567775 - 03/02/02 01:31 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)

i also rule out water signs... and place my bet on virgo (as a more skeptic and scientific oriented sign) but you cannot really judge because in astrology there are more factors, and possibly more important factors than only the place of the sun in the horoscope. As as skeptic i have looked into astrology and was surprised by the lack of SERIOUS investigation on the part of skeptics. I don't see factor analysis or complex combinations of factors factored in. So if someone is saying astrology is humbug based on research don't believe him. Keep in mind i'm not talking about folklore astrology. Swami is also aiming at folklore astrology with his question - so he has to refrase his question to get further along the real skeptics path to truth.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Guess Swami's Sign [Re: Tannis]
    #567986 - 03/02/02 06:59 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)

Lets pretend that Swami is right and has all the answers.
That has never been my claim at all.

If you are right and we are wrong why do you need to convince us that our belief has no validity to it.
Your question is valid, but actually has it backwards. I have been asking people that made claims of paranormal ability or phenomena to convince me of their stance.

This has been answered many times, probably before you joined in. There are 3 main reasons:

1. Curiosity - is there something out there that exists beyond ordinary reality that occasionally crosses over?

2. In 30 years of exploration e-v-e-r-y single claim has turned up empty. I want to know why people take outlandish stories at face-value with no deep investigation.

3. Rage against superstition, con-men and fraud.

I had an acquaintence die in the Heaven's Gate cult.

I have seen my family torn apart when my born-again brother started throwing his judgements about us sinners around.

I watched an elderly neighbor give away her life-savings to greedy, self-serving televangelists.

I watch more and more Americans being jailed for ingesting plants because of erroneous beliefs. There was a bill in the US Congress a few years back that was just about reviewing the efficacy of the WOD. The bill failed to pass! They were afraid to even look!

Now while most here are against the WOD, it is the very SAME lack of critical thinking and examination that causes people to believe that mushroom growers should serve long prison sentences or to believe in astrology. This is called blind acceptance of what is presented to you or you can call it "belief".

I would always rather know than believe, if possible.

In hundreds of posts, the debate always go to

A. Silence
B. Personal Attack
C. Change of subject
D. Some nonsense about how my being a disbeliever screws things up. (Wow! Now I am being attributed with great power. LOL!)

Most of my valid points are distinctly side-stepped.

If right is right, and truth is self evident,
Truth may be self-evident to some people that can look at all the data in an unbiased manner, but that is rare.

it doesn't need to be defended...it just is--- no matter what anyone says...
This is a naive position. Women are equal to men, blacks are equal to whites, gays to straights, Jews to Aryans, etc. These are self-evident to some, but are positions that need to be heavily defended. Many have died to bring these truths to light. Then there are still some on this board that will not agree that these basics are true.

You obviously have strong convictions and beliefs
Not in the way that that is normally meant. People will say "Oh Swami, your disbelief in Astrology is just another form of belief." This is nonsense. My non-belief is based on research and experiment. Most belief in Astrology (or whatever the pet subject is) is based on heresay and false perception.

but I feel that if I state an opinion that is slightly different than yours that's going to result in a fight. I'm I getting the wrong picture?
Opinion is one thing. A false, invalid, contradictory or unsubstantiated statement is another.

If you say, "Hey, I prefer chocolate ice cream to vanilla.", what can I challenge? But if you say that chocolate is clearly superior in taste to vanilla then I might question your statement.

Battle for the sake of battle is rather pointless. What if I came on here boasting about a perpetual motion machine that I had invented? You would probably either ignore my post or ask to see blueprints and a working explanantion. That is what I do when some one says that they can clearly demonstrate telekinesis, ESP, Astrology, etc.

To date all have failed even rudimentary testing yet millions of people believe. I want people to either wake up or back up their claims.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

Edited by Swami (03/05/02 08:36 AM)

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InvisibleLallafa
p_g monocle
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/13/01
Posts: 2,598
Loc: underbelly
Re: Guess Swami's Sign [Re: Swami]
    #567994 - 03/02/02 07:13 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)

cancer


--------------------
my tax dollars going to more hits of acid for charles manson

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Guess Swami's Sign [Re: Lallafa]
    #568008 - 03/02/02 07:27 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)

And lallafa wins the prize!

You are too funny; perhaps even more sarcastic than me. LOL!


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleJared
Stranger
Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/22/01
Posts: 8,783
Re: Guess Swami's Sign [Re: Swami]
    #568236 - 03/03/02 01:39 AM (22 years, 3 months ago)

ignored me.. you bastard.

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OfflineArCh_TemPlaR
enthusiast
Registered: 07/15/01
Posts: 200
Last seen: 22 years, 1 month
Re: Guess Swami's Sign [Re: Swami]
    #568332 - 03/03/02 04:45 AM (22 years, 3 months ago)

what did he win? Is Cancer one of the cardinal signs?

My first thought was that.

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Guess Swami's Sign [Re: Jared]
    #568708 - 03/03/02 02:50 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)

ignored me.. you bastard.
Pobrecito.

Roll a 6 sided die 10 times, don't expect to see the pyramid.
OK, I don't.

Feel better now?



--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Guess Swami's Sign [Re: ArCh_TemPlaR]
    #568715 - 03/03/02 02:54 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)

Duh! Seeing as I posted my sign ten messages ago, I guess he won because he can read and remember - LOL!


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Guess Swami's Sign [Re: dizZy_bOy]
    #568868 - 03/03/02 05:27 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)

you sign is only a basis for your personality
My sign is the basis for nothing at all, but ancient superstition and fuzzy thinking.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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OfflineArCh_TemPlaR
enthusiast
Registered: 07/15/01
Posts: 200
Last seen: 22 years, 1 month
Re: Guess Swami's Sign [Re: Swami]
    #569022 - 03/03/02 09:02 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)

bwahah.. I thought differently.. Lallafa may have only bothered to read your first post and 'guessed' wiithout reading the rest of the posts.

you posted your sign already, then why would he/she bother guessing it? sarcarsm? haha alright then

either case.. nothing provocative came of this..

Edited by ArCh_TemPlaR (03/03/02 09:23 PM)

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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Guess Swami's Sign [Re: Swami]
    #569033 - 03/03/02 09:15 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)

>Guess my "blocking" powers are much stronger than your "viewing" powers..<

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>Like many believer responses, there is usually attack or excuse. But never, ever, any tiny piece of evidence for any claimed paranormal ability. <

They're just pissed because they were raised in a Christianity-based society (of course there will be some dipshite who will claim that they were unaffected... blah blah, here's a pre-emptive "shaddup!"). So, they grabbed onto astrology. I can't really blame them... wait, yes I can. WAKE UP!!! You're just replacing one BS belief system for another. It's not that hard to think for yourself, really. You don't NEED a system. Have a little faith in yourself and give critical thinking a shot.


>>you sign is only a basis for your personality, you life may shape it in other ways if the experiences are drastic enough. <<

A bullshit excuse statement if I ever heard one.



--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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OfflineTannis
ZoneTrooper
Registered: 12/13/01
Posts: 508
Loc: MD.USA
Last seen: 21 years, 2 months
Re: Guess Swami's Sign [Re: Swami]
    #570352 - 03/05/02 08:06 AM (22 years, 3 months ago)

Thanks for the insight into your motivation....I appreciate it.

Now would probably be a good time to say that I don't place any particular belief in astrology.....meaning that I don't get up in the morning and check my forcast to see what kind of day I'm going to have. The thing that attracted me to the post and initally set off my "match to gasoline kind of temper" was that the post isn't talking about astrology.....its talking about "guessing" your sign and astrology isn't about guessing. I began to get the impression that you were attacking a belief system that you didn't have a working knowledge of.....
I guess my question at this point is: Do you understand how it works? ( Even if you disbelieve in it....) I didn't see that in the post found it to be upsetting.
Please understand---This is not an attempt to discredit you or anything you are saying----but I still see an attack on a belief system but it is not discussing the actual system of belief. I see an intellectual arguement based on some past negative experiences.
Granted----you are right in cautioning everyone......and I'm very sorry at the loss of your friend......

Sorry----Have to continue this later----public access computer and my time is up....sorry......

A day later and I'm back....

Let me continue with a humorous story....
While in college, my friend Frank and I decided that we would lampoon ourselves and religion in general by devising our own "cult". Frank had a pet mouse named "Omar" who unfortunately fell from a top bunk and died when he hit the tile floor. Frank and I decided that since most religions are based on less than this we would form our belief on this event.

"Omarism" was born....

Frank wasn't much on burials and so "flushed" Omar.... We declared that bathrooms would be known as "The Temples Of Omar" and suggested that all people everywhere visit these temples several times daily and leave "offerings" in order to maintain good health and receive "the blessings of Omar"....
We went on to say that our religion was the one true religion because even people who didn't profess "Omarism" still maintained temples of Omar in their houses and worshiped in them daily...and in some under developed countries (such as West Virginia) they even build temples in their back yards and had been worshipping for decades thus setting apart the scared beliefs!
If anyone disagreed with us they were labeled "an unbeliever" and we were still the one true religion because all of our critics at some point, had to admit that they had worshiped in a temple of Omar....

It was one of those crazy college things....but it proves a valueable point....if you are going to pick the fight, chose the arena, make up the rules, and then provide an intellectual arguement based on your rules....you can prove anything as long as you tear apart (according to the rules you've formulated) or disreguard what the competion says.

In the original topic, I saw beliefs shared and intellectual arguements presented based on what I stated as my opinion---but what I didn't see was a discussion about the Sun sign, the Moon sign, the "transits", or the birth profile or natal chart. All the intellectual arguements against were based on discrediting the opinons presented---not on disproving the elements of actual system....

Edited by Tannis (03/06/02 07:48 AM)

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InvisibleJared
Stranger
Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/22/01
Posts: 8,783
Re: Guess Swami's Sign [Re: Swami]
    #571040 - 03/05/02 11:06 PM (22 years, 3 months ago)

As a matter of fact it does, receiving no response is quite annoying.

In probability, when you roll two dice over and over, into the hundreds and into the thousands it forms a pyramid when the results are tabulated left to right, 1 through 12, 7 being the apex of the pyramid tapering off towards 1 and 2 because of the different combinations possible with the faces of the dice.

I was just saying that you slam your fist down with certainty when you only have a dozen or so results.. in the experiment of the dice (12 outcomes) you cannot possibly begin to see the pyramid without a hundred or more results. So, why would you be able to draw such a precise conclusion from under a dozen results with an experiment which also has twelve outcomes, outcomes which are totally "random", unlike the dice experiment......

Sorry I assumed you heard of the dice pyramid.
Sorry I called you a bastard.

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Guess Swami's Sign [Re: Jared]
    #571083 - 03/06/02 12:07 AM (22 years, 3 months ago)

So, why would you be able to draw such a precise conclusion from under a dozen results with an experiment which also has twelve outcomes, outcomes which are totally "random",
I know they are totally random and you do as well, but here on the shroomery, we are dealing with the keenest minds, the creme de la creme, the leading edge of the metaphysical front; a communal mass shattering paradigms of reality at will. I hold these aspiring sorcerers to a higher standard.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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OfflineTypingwords
Veteran Seasonal PNW Hunter
I'm a teapot

Registered: 08/04/01
Posts: 171
Loc: seattle-ish area, WA
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
Re: Guess Swami's Sign [Re: Swami]
    #571229 - 03/06/02 03:44 AM (22 years, 3 months ago)

Attention everyone!!!!!!
yes, now you all need to read tannis' and alphatrono-whatever's post. And let's all be aware of the fact that nothing has been or can be gained as far as saying anything regarding the truth or falsity of astrology in this thread. none of this is going to even come close to meaning anything. You can go on with your other arguments, but no more about astrology. If you do then you might as well be posting "I AM STUPID" in place of your words. My guess is that most of the people who guessed are not properly informed about astrology. This is serious shit, and there are way too many factors involved. If anyone wants to have a valid argument on this, just study all of astrology for a year or so every day, and then figure out swami's exact birthday and time and a bunch of other crap. Or something like that. I'll admit that I don't really know what I'm talking about either. BUt if anyone is really interested in this stuff, I suggest that you also study Edgar Cayce's "views" on astrology in order to further your proper understanding of the subject. BUt then again what do I know? i am no more than a bunch of words on a screen.


--------------------
everything everyone everywhere.
forever and ever

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OfflineTannis
ZoneTrooper
Registered: 12/13/01
Posts: 508
Loc: MD.USA
Last seen: 21 years, 2 months
Re: Guess Swami's Sign [Re: Typingwords]
    #571345 - 03/06/02 07:51 AM (22 years, 3 months ago)

What do you know? A lot apparently.....and your right this has past the point of being productive....I'll stop before I have to write "I'm stupi..........

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