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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Beauty
#5657720 - 05/21/06 07:35 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Post the most inspiring photo of natural beauty you can find.
Beauty reminds us that there is so much more to life than traffic jams, deadlines, balancing checkbooks, and buying new toys.
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Syle
Kenai Sigh


Registered: 10/16/05
Posts: 6,678
Loc: WA
Last seen: 10 months, 26 days
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Re: Beauty [Re: Veritas]
#5657731 - 05/21/06 07:38 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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wow, this are gorgeous.
-------------------- https://kenaisigh.bandcamp.com/ <- Just completed the 2021 RPM challenge for February - An EP in one month (5 songs or 20 minutes). Check it out!
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Gomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!


Registered: 09/11/04
Posts: 10,888
Loc: I re·side [primarily] in...
Last seen: 10 months, 23 days
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Re: Beauty [Re: Veritas]
#5657773 - 05/21/06 07:47 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Is nudity allowed?
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: Beauty [Re: Gomp]
#5657782 - 05/21/06 07:50 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Sure, but no porn. There are already several threads in other forums for those photos.
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Gomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!


Registered: 09/11/04
Posts: 10,888
Loc: I re·side [primarily] in...
Last seen: 10 months, 23 days
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Re: Beauty [Re: Veritas]
#5657806 - 05/21/06 07:54 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Your sign made "my" point! 

Quote:
--------------------
-------------------- Disclaimer!?
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Beauty [Re: Gomp]
#5657854 - 05/21/06 08:07 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Gomp said: Is nudity allowed?
Those flowers are the naked genitalia of those plants. Isn't that enough for you?
By the way Veritas, those are beautiful. Almost as beautiful as you. That's subjective of course.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Basilides
Servent ofWisdom


Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 7,059
Loc: Crown and Heart
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Re: Beauty [Re: Veritas]
#5657864 - 05/21/06 08:10 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I have no idea where in the world this is, but it's absolutely breath taking
--------------------
    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Ahhh, gorgeous Camps Bay Beach in South Africa.
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DoctorJ


Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Beauty [Re: Veritas]
#5658072 - 05/21/06 09:03 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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anarchy is beautiful to me. I see great beauty in ugliness.
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Gomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!


Registered: 09/11/04
Posts: 10,888
Loc: I re·side [primarily] in...
Last seen: 10 months, 23 days
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
Gomp said: Is nudity allowed?
Those flowers are the naked genitalia of those plants. Isn't that enough for you?
Indeed, they are! 'n' Indeed, it is!
 

When one see 'them' up close, they even resemble!?
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DoctorJ


Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Beauty [Re: Gomp]
#5658229 - 05/21/06 09:46 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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that chick is hot 
I'll be back in ten minutes
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Beauty [Re: DoctorJ]
#5658453 - 05/21/06 10:29 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Glad to see you really do have a sex life.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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DoctorJ


Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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a sex life minus one or two
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moog
Stranger

Registered: 02/15/05
Posts: 1,296
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Re: Beauty [Re: Veritas]
#5658684 - 05/21/06 11:35 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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The sky is like an ever-changing painting. Masterpieces are created in minutes, and vanish just as quickly... 

And here are some of the most beautiful creatures in the universe...
 
 

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David_vs_Goliath
Informer


Registered: 04/01/06
Posts: 208
Loc: Chicago
Last seen: 14 years, 18 days
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Re: Beauty [Re: moog]
#5658844 - 05/22/06 12:17 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Oregon Beauty. (I took this from an old thread)

 Great photography
Check out this link for more pictures from the same photographer who took the last picture. http://www.darlynemurawski.com/gallery.html
-------------------- "People living deeply have no fear of death." "Love the animals, love the plants, love everything. If you love everything, you will perceive the divine mystery in things. Once you perceive it, you will begin to comprehend it better every day. And you will come at last to love the whole world with an all-embracing love." "Our problems are man-made, therefore they may be solved by man. No problem of human destiny is beyond human beings."
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Now, before everyone gets in a huff, I have a point to make. While frogs and rainbows, tigers and beaches are all wonderful, I think there is Beauty in this picture. Just as the picture of a flower is beautiful beacuse of its vibrant colors, simplicity, and natural existence, the beauty of gore/violence/etc has its own cognition via experience. We can experience an enormous span of thousands and thousands of emotions which can overwhelm us in many ways, and to ignore those emotions, or censor your perception and tag an integral part of life as "Bad" is just self-delusion.
This picture portrays how fragile life is, as well as the power of consciously deciding to exist in the carnal/tangible universe or not. That is a picture of someone with such a strong conviction regarding the hopelessness of mortal living that they could exact such precise and (seemingly) final actions.
That is proof of ultimate freedom. That is just as beautiful as a rainbow shining on a frogs ass.
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faslimy
Dead Man

Registered: 04/04/04
Posts: 3,436
Last seen: 8 years, 1 month
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i looked at that picture more than all the others, while thinking.. 'amazing'
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Gomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!


Registered: 09/11/04
Posts: 10,888
Loc: I re·side [primarily] in...
Last seen: 10 months, 23 days
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Re: Beauty [Re: faslimy]
#5659186 - 05/22/06 04:33 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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That couch is shabby. He needs new furniture.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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BlueCoyote
Beyond


Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 6,697
Loc: Between
Last seen: 3 years, 16 days
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DoctorJ


Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Quote:
psilocyberin said:
wicked.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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I think psilocyberin makes a very good point. Even in scenes that appear ugly and disturbing, there is a kind of beauty. We cannot simply dismiss such scenes because we do not want to face it. We must take in the entirety of creation, even those we might rather forget.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,534
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why would I not be surprised to find blood corona appreciation as a theme in beauty 
personally I adore open form, and opening one's self up is the best way to offer good art, but some consideration for yourself being able to enjoy the reaction of others and also some consideration for the cleaners makes sense to me.
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_ 🧠 _
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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There are many, many opportunities each and every day to view scenes of violence, gore, warfare, brutality & despair. It's called news and entertainment.
Why promote and propogate what is already glorified on every newstand, movie theater and TV in America? How boring and banal. Why wallow in the garbage pile when you can run through a grassy meadow?
Choosing to post images of violence and gore on a thread about being inspired by beauty is more about going along with the sheep than striking out on your own path. Wow...how impressively rebellious and different.
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DoctorJ


Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Quote:
Silversoul said: I think psilocyberin makes a very good point. Even in scenes that appear ugly and disturbing, there is a kind of beauty. We cannot simply dismiss such scenes because we do not want to face it. We must take in the entirety of creation, even those we might rather forget.
God is EVERYWHERE.
from the lowliest maggot to the highest angel.
be careful who you step on,
because when you step on God, he steps back on you
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Beauty [Re: Veritas]
#5660351 - 05/22/06 02:12 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Wow, that's rather elitist of you. Apparently your standards of beauty must the objective standards, right? Anyone who sees beauty in things that most would rather not look at is simply being rebellious and immature, right? God forbid someone might see beauty in all of creation.
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DoctorJ


Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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dude, she's a woman.
what more can you expect from her?
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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BTW, here's my beautiful picture.

Behold, the beautiful food chain, which sustains the ecosystem and drives evolution
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Beauty [Re: DoctorJ]
#5660374 - 05/22/06 02:18 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
DoctorJ said: dude, she's a woman.
what more can you expect from her?
Unlike you, I don't have such mysoginistic expectations from women.
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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I believe that photo was posted not because he found inspiration and beauty within the gore, but for the shock value. Oh, snicker snicker, they are all wanting to look at rainbows coming out of frog's asses, let's post some gore. That's bullshit.
Get over yourself. It is arrogance to call it as I see it? Fine, so be it. In my arrogant, elitist opinion, that photo depicts the same sensationalistic crap that every blood-thirsty journalist seeks out and puts forward daily. Junk food for junk minds.
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DoctorJ


Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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I don't expect anything
I hope for things
and am often disappointed
"Don't just call me pessimist. Try and read between the lines."
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Beauty [Re: Veritas]
#5660390 - 05/22/06 02:20 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Shock value can be useful sometimes. Sometimes, people need to be shocked to be made aware. If psilocyberin had just posted the picture, I might agree with you, but he provided an explanation along with the picture. Perhaps you just have issues with being shocked?
Oh, and yes it is arrogant to call it like you see it, if you happen to see it in an arrogant way.
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DoctorJ


Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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"Yes, hello, front desk? I'd like a wakeup call at 9:11 in the AM, please. Thank you."
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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There was nothing shocking about it. It is the same old crap. The composition is terrible, the focus is off, the lighting is bad--it doesn't even have artistic merit.
I'm not being arrogant OR girly, I am saying that photo is inappropriate for this thread. If he wanted to start an alternate thread, perhaps entitled "The Beauty of Ugliness and Gore," then his photo (and yours) would be perfectly appropriate and on-topic. Where is the inspirational natural beauty in a bad polaroid of someone's bloody head pulp?
Edited by Veritas (05/22/06 02:27 PM)
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Beauty [Re: Veritas]
#5660429 - 05/22/06 02:28 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I think the real ugliness here is a refusal to acknowledge the beauty in all of creation. There is nothing spiritual about trying to just think of flowers and rainbows all day. That is spiritual laziness. To find beauty in ugliness, that is a sign of spiritual maturity.
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
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Why must all creation be beautiful? "On the day when crime dons the apparel of innocence..."
Edited by MushmanTheManic (05/22/06 02:35 PM)
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DoctorJ


Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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you never cease to amaze me, bro. Keep up the good work.
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Great, fine, then go watch "Faces of Death" or some other gore-mongering film. Your spiritual maturity will certainly benefit from it. After all, the millions who watch people get blown up, hacked apart, strangled, etc...on their TV's every night are incredibly spiritually mature, right??
There is certainly nothing ghoulish about wanting to see beauty in the death and pain of others...or enjoying it...or causing it. IT'S ALL BEAUTIFUL!! GOD MADE IT ALL! WE MUST ALL LOVE IT AND THINK IT IS BEAUTIFUL! 
Your premise is fatally flawed.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Quote:
MushmanTheManic said: Why must all creation be beautiful?
It is beautiful in a more profound sense. It doesn't mean there isn't ugliness, but even the ugliness is beautiful because it is part of the greater workings of creation. Creation comes out of destruction. The same force that wiped out Hiroshima is also the force that powers the sun and allows life to exist on earth. Existence is beautiful because it is a complete tapestry of dark and light.
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DoctorJ


Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Beauty [Re: Veritas]
#5660465 - 05/22/06 02:34 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Subzero wins! FATALITY!
hey, you should go sleep with Joe Lieberman
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Ugliness and beauty are not the same...that is the whole point. They are opposites. Pain and pleasure, dark and light, happiness and grief...will you now try to say that all opposites are the same? Is this doublespeak? Slavery is freedom...
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
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I refuse to think something is beautiful merely because it exists. If you believe everything is beautiful, "beauty" becomes a useless concept.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Beauty [Re: Veritas]
#5660487 - 05/22/06 02:40 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said: Great, fine, then go watch "Faces of Death" or some other gore-mongering film. Your spiritual maturity will certainly benefit from it. After all, the millions who watch people get blown up, hacked apart, strangled, etc...on their TV's every night are incredibly spiritually mature, right??
There is certainly nothing ghoulish about wanting to see beauty in the death and pain of others...or enjoying it...or causing it. IT'S ALL BEAUTIFUL!! GOD MADE IT ALL! WE MUST ALL LOVE IT AND THINK IT IS BEAUTIFUL! 
Your premise is fatally flawed.
There is an eerie kind of beauty to death. We all will die someday, and watching such gory deaths is a reminder of our own mortality. In the new Tool album, Maynard sings "Vicariously I live will the whole world dies." Life feeds on death. There is no creation without destruction. There is no beauty without ugliness. We consume food which gives us life, and it comes out as feces. Yet these feces help fertilize plants and continue the cycle of life. All is connected. All is one.
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
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There is an eerie kind of beauty to death.
Yeah, cus seeing the tearful faces of the family members of the deceased is a pleasureful sight to our eyes....
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Beauty [Re: Veritas]
#5660522 - 05/22/06 02:49 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said: Ugliness and beauty are not the same...that is the whole point. They are opposites. Pain and pleasure, dark and light, happiness and grief...will you now try to say that all opposites are the same? Is this doublespeak? Slavery is freedom...
I don't believe in opposites. They are a dualistic construct which ignores the oneness and interconnectedness of things. Darkness is dependent upon light. Happiness is not possible without grief. One man's slavery is another man's freedom.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Quote:
MushmanTheManic said: There is an eerie kind of beauty to death.
Yeah, cus seeing the tearful faces of the family members of the deceased is a pleasureful sight to our eyes....
Grief helps bring people together. Mourning for the dead helps us realize how important others in our life are to us. There is indeed beauty in it, even if it's not the type of beauty you smile at.
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Quote:
Beauty: the quality or aggregate of qualities in a person or thing that gives pleasure to the senses or pleasurably exalts the mind or spirit.
Quote:
Ugly: offensive to the sight b : offensive or unpleasant to any sense.
OK, by a show of hands, how many viewers were pleasurably exalted by the bad quality Polaroid of a shotgun suicide?
Of those with your hands up, how many of you are now or have previously been incarcerated or involuntarily committed?
Thank you.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Beauty [Re: Veritas]
#5660549 - 05/22/06 02:54 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Ah, but some words have more than one definition.
Quote:
beauty: a particularly graceful, ornamental, or excellent quality
There is certainly a graceful aspect to mortality, if only in the fact that reminds us to live our lives with purpose.
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moog
Stranger

Registered: 02/15/05
Posts: 1,296
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less talk, more pictures. 
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,534
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Re: Beauty [Re: Veritas]
#5660565 - 05/22/06 02:57 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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beauty and pleasure are about ballance ugliness and pain are about too much or too little when a mean is craved. this is not complex, but making it part of life is very complex, especially with raging egos which cannot let go of their own mortality and mortification.
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_ 🧠 _
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Beauty [Re: moog]
#5660566 - 05/22/06 02:57 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Are pretty pictures really more relevant to spirituality and philosophy than discussing what beauty is and where it is to be found? The suicide picture has helped spawn some useful debate, and helped us to get to the real heart of the issue. The is a perfect example of my contention about beauty in ugliness.
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
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Re: Beauty [Re: Veritas]
#5660567 - 05/22/06 02:57 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Finding beauty in cruelty, suffering, pain, death, etc is called "sadism".
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DoctorJ


Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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I want my funeral to be a big party with fine hos and clean caddillacs all line up and down the block!
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moog
Stranger

Registered: 02/15/05
Posts: 1,296
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No, but incessant debate won't help you be any more enlightened either.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Quote:
MushmanTheManic said: Finding beauty in cruelty, suffering, pain, death, etc is called "sadism".
I would say that sadism is more about a preference for those things, rather than simply finding beauty in them. I certainly don't prefer those things, but I recognize the role they play in the beautiful balance of existence.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Beauty [Re: DoctorJ]
#5660581 - 05/22/06 02:59 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
DoctorJ said: I want my funeral to be a big party with fine hos and clean caddillacs all line up and down the block!
I've actually heard that Mexican funerals are quite festive celebrations.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,534
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Quote:
Silversoul said:... is a perfect example of my contention about beauty in ugliness.
thanks, exactly the point. you are contentious. emphasizing some agony and mortifying yourself to persist in this picture thus perverting the theme of beauty into self self self self self.....
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_ 🧠 _
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
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If you think watching people suffer is beautiful... I don't know what else I can say. I thought you Gnostics valued empathy and altruism, but you seem to be peddling the philosophy of tyrannts and sociopaths.
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: Beauty [Re: moog]
#5660592 - 05/22/06 03:01 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Death Valley
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Quote:
MushmanTheManic said: If you think watching people suffer is beautiful... I don't know what else I can say. I thought you Gnostics valued empathy and altruism, but you seem to be peddling the philosophy of tyrannts and sociopaths.
You're missing the point. It's not that I take pleasure in suffering, or advocate the extension of it. I'm not a sadist. But I do recognize that even those aspects of reality that seem cruel and unpleasant to us are a necessary part of a more beautiful big picture. Taking everything in context is what's all about.
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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REDGREEN VINES
Edited by Veritas (05/22/06 03:09 PM)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Beauty [Re: DoctorJ]
#5660632 - 05/22/06 03:10 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
DoctorJ said: dude, she's a woman.
what more can you expect from her?
Much more than we can expect from you. Can you spell loser?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Beauty [Re: Veritas]
#5660642 - 05/22/06 03:12 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Alex Grey was certainly able to find beauty in death.
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Edited by Silversoul (05/22/06 03:18 PM)
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moog
Stranger

Registered: 02/15/05
Posts: 1,296
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Cherk
Fashionable


Registered: 10/25/02
Posts: 46,493
Loc: International
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Your immediate response to that picture, "before everyone gets in a huff", is a defensive statement. Defense is offense You conciously intended to offend people. To call people self deluded that would rather not see that picture when you yourself intended to offend people with that picture only causes argument.
The beauty in that picture and the beauty in Verita's pictures is the same beauty. There is no difference between "gore" beauty and nature beauty. The only difference you will find arises from your attachment to the material world. Your point that beauty and ugliness are one is true, yet your post shows that you lack a true understanding of this.
Life is not fragile, it is eternal. Our bodies that allow us to experience life are fragile.
--------------------
I have considered such matters. SIKE
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Beauty [Re: Cherk]
#5660652 - 05/22/06 03:15 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Smoker For Peace said: Your immediate response to that picture, "before everyone gets in a huff", is a defensive statement. Defense is offense You conciously intended to offend people. To call people self deluded that would rather not see that picture when you yourself intended to offend people with that picture only causes argument.
The beauty in that picture and the beauty in Verita's pictures is the same beauty. There is no difference between "gore" beauty and nature beauty. The only difference you will find arises from your attachment to the material world. Your point that beauty and ugliness are one is true, yet your post shows that you lack a true understanding of this.
Life is not fragile, it is eternal. Our bodies that allow us to experience life are fragile.
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
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I've always thought that infamous Subgenius Paul Reuben was a truly beautiful and bizzare creation of nature.
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: Beauty [Re: Cherk]
#5660667 - 05/22/06 03:19 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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A Smile before dining?
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger

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Re: Beauty [Re: Cherk]
#5660670 - 05/22/06 03:19 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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We might as well rename this thread: "Life turned against Life: The Carnage of Afterworldly Thoughts"
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Alex Grey was painting his emotional reaction to death...not a photorrealistic version of a gory suicide.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


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I wasn't bothered by the photo of that guy. Not my first pick for beautiful but who cares.
I do remember the movie American Beauty. That young man was able to see beauty in death.
If one doesn't like the pic then you can quickly skip over it. If you can't manage that it might be good to ask yourself why?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Silversoul
Rhizome


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Re: Beauty [Re: Veritas]
#5660679 - 05/22/06 03:21 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Those poor fish are about to meet their cruel end to sustain that dolphin's life. How ugly! How beautiful!
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger

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Silversoul
Rhizome


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How cruel the Nazi torture and killing of all Jews was! How beautifully effective it was at changing attitudes and effecting racial progress in the 20th century! How lost we might be now without it!
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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You are missing the point in the photos I posted. They all depict death (or impending death) of some kind, but with an eye for beauty and artistic composition.
We do not need gory sensationalistic images to remind us of our mortality...we can watch the seasons pass, knowing that our winter will come. We can see vast deserts, where once was an ocean brimming with life. We can observe the innocent delight of a dolphin contemplating his meal.
Death and ugliness do not have to be synonymous, but ugliness and ugliness do.
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger

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Actually, that picture was from the Armenian genocide.
Edited by MushmanTheManic (05/22/06 03:34 PM)
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Silversoul
Rhizome


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Re: Beauty [Re: Veritas]
#5660717 - 05/22/06 03:33 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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If all you were looking for is aethetics, then why not post this in MA&L? What relevance do aethetically pleasing pics have to spirituality?
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger

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The sun is pretty.
Edited by MushmanTheManic (05/22/06 03:37 PM)
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Ahhh...so only aesthetically repugnant, poorly composed photos chosen for their shock value are spiritual? 
I am a beauty-loving Hedonist...my philosophy states that pleasure is the greatest good, not pain and suffering.
I am spiritually inspired by artistic photos of nature's glory. I did not post in Mysticism because beauty has nothing to do with UFO's, Unicorns, past lives or telekinesis.
Edited by Veritas (05/22/06 03:40 PM)
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Silversoul
Rhizome


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Re: Beauty [Re: Veritas]
#5660749 - 05/22/06 03:42 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said: Ahhh...so only aesthetically repugnant, poorly composed photos chosen for their shock value are spiritual? 
Where did I imply that? I simply said that the reverse is not true either.
Quote:
I am a beauty-loving Hedonist...I am spiritually inspired by artistic photos of nature's glory. I did not post in Mysticism because beauty has nothing to do with UFO's, Unicorns, past lives or telekinesis.
So then you are spiritually inspired by focusing only on artistic beauty and keeping the darker aspects of life out of view? I've personally found that the greatest spiritual growth often comes from pain and struggle.
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger

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Re: Beauty [Re: Veritas]
#5660755 - 05/22/06 03:45 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Ahhh...so only aesthetically repugnant, poorly composed photos chosen for their shock value are spiritual?
A will to Nothingness at it's finest.
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Quote:
So then you are spiritually inspired by focusing only on artistic beauty and keeping the darker aspects of life out of view?
Hmmm...let's see, there is death and disease all around me, all the time, so I should seek it out. Perhaps I could even catch some deadly disease, just so that I am not out of balance with nature. Yes, that's an excellent idea!
And I should start eating food which has spoiled, because decay is part of life, too. I'll just leave all my food on the kitchen counters in the sun, because that is more natural. If I get sick from eating it, that will help my spiritual growth, because pain and suffering are the hallmarks of spiritual maturity.
I should not seek to promote my physical and emotional health, because that would deny the unhealthy aspects of existence, and make me a spiritual Pollyanna.
Quote:
I've personally found that the greatest spiritual growth often comes from pain and struggle.
This is glorifying the alarm system instead of pouring water on the fire.
What were you struggling for? More pain? Or relief?
Why were you hurting? Because everything was OK, because you were emotionally healthy and spiritually aligned? Or because you were unhealthy and misaligned?
Let's not get caught up in enjoying the throbbing pain in our foot whilst gangrene sets in...the pain is the call for healing, not the healing itself.
Edited by Veritas (05/22/06 03:55 PM)
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Silversoul
Rhizome


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Re: Beauty [Re: Veritas]
#5660788 - 05/22/06 03:54 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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You're not getting me at all. Of course you should put out the fire, but you shouldn't simply ignore the fire and focus on the pretty trees instead. Pain is, by definition, not something to be enjoyed. But it is beautiful in calling our attention to those things which must be fixed.
This is exactly what I hate about so many of the hippies. You bring up stuff like this and they're like "Whoa! Negativity, man! Not cool!" But pain is useful. There is a reason why so many cultures have rites of passage that involve pain. Life is not a bed of roses, or if it is, it comes with the thorns attached. We must first recognize it for what it is, learn to deal with it, and be thankful for the opportunities it presents to us. I will leave you here with a bumper sticker slogan:
"Oh no! Not another learning experience!"
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
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But should you light a fire just so that you can appreciate the darker, more destructive aspects of existence? Do you deliberately seek out pain in order to promote growth, or do you deal with it when it occurs?
Deliberately viewing gory, violent images is NOT the same as courageously facing the grim aspects of your own life.
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger

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Re: Beauty [Re: Veritas]
#5660813 - 05/22/06 03:59 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I've decided to help along those who haven't entirely detached themselves from the suffering of other human beings by posting some more beautiful pictures. Remember, it is beautiful. They may be suffering, but think of how much you can learn from distantly observing these wonderful spectacles.

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Silversoul
Rhizome


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Re: Beauty [Re: Veritas]
#5660843 - 05/22/06 04:08 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said: But should you light a fire just so that you can appreciate the darker, more destructive aspects of existence? Do you deliberately seek out pain in order to promote growth, or do you deal with it when it occurs?
Deliberately viewing gory, violent images is NOT the same as courageously facing the grim aspects of your own life.
Deliberately causing and deliberately viewing are two different things. We must be exposed to those things which are not so pretty in order to deal with them.
Remember the story of Siddhartha, who grew up in a palace with all the world's pleasures available to him. Should he not have gone out to see sickness, old age, and death? It was, afterall, a deliberate move on his part. Should he have continued his sheltered, hedonistic existance and not set out to find enlightenment?
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

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I hit reply to silversoul because there are about 20 posts I wish to reply to and don't have the time (im at work right now) to address them individually.
Here is a picture that I think needs no explanation, but encompasses this entire discussion and holds great relevance to my previous picture.
I think it will now adhere to Veritas "objective standards and guidelines of Beauty". It is a well focused picture, and has good quality, atleast for the time it was taken. For those of you who know it only from the cover of the RATM album, it is Quang Duc, who set himself on fire (not the only one) as a protest against the Vietnamese Presidents treatment of Buddhists. For something like 23 minutes he sat there in immolation never once moving a muscle. Just as you all may have wept at a certain time at the beauty of something such as a new born child, a serene lake sunset, I too have wept from the beauty of this picture and all the meaning/understanding held within it.
For the sake of this argument, there is no difference between this picture, and my first one. They are "gruesome" portrayals of suicide, yet I am willing to bet that many of you will not have as much of a problem with this picture, and will find your arguments and counterclaims of subjective beauty will fall short when trying to defend your shortsighted position.
Veritas: the quality of a picture does help show portray beauty better, but on the same token, sometimes the grainy, out of focus, or poor lighting can help emphasize this "gruesome beauty" I am talking about, just as much as perfectly balanced, lighted, and focused pictures of rainbows and frogs can help emphasize their "natural beauty". I think your entire argument stems from personal bias towards me, and how you think you have me pegged as a devil's advocate. Sorry, but you are dead wrong in this instance. We are delving into the realm of aesthetics, which is closely tied if not a synonym for art. Beauty can be better defined as an affinity or appreciation for the aesthetics of an event/picture/sculpture/song (any perceptual avenue). What you are arguing is that all art should be of a nice fluffy nature, and should only portray a very lopsided part of life/existence... Sorry Mr. Geiger, your art isn't beautiful, because you have no frogs or Rainbows in them.
I am not incapable of appreciating or finding the beauty in all of the other pictures posted on here, even the ones Mushthemanic has posted. Life just IS, be it orgasms, fluffy bunnies, KKK rallies, or calm midnight lagoon scenes, and your perception of it as good, bad, ugly, or wrong, doesn't make it universally so. I am no sadist, I am just a Realist, and I appreciate the infinite beauty of existence, and I am not willing to put emotional blinders on due to my socially conditioned judgement so as to block out reality.
Veritas, I don't always agree with you, and that is one of the things I enjoy about you, but your hubris on this subject is laughable.
To whomever claimed that I did not get the philosophy I had put forth: I think you need to go back and reread my post, it was worded in such a way as to not derail this thread on the semantics of the soul vs brain debate. I had written "tangible and corporeal" for a reason.
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
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How many of us are living in a palace? My town is very nice, green, low crime rate, etc...but disease and death are still as close as the next door neighbor who blew his head off in his parked RV in our driveway.
My point was never that a sheltered existence is preferable, but rather that (for most of us) is impossible. The balance which needs to be restored is that towards beauty, towards love, towards cherishing life and pleasure and excellence. We are all already tipped too far in the direction of ugliness and despair.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


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Speaking of KKK rallies:

Isn't the burning cross a beautiful sight? And look at their long, flowing, white sheets. Truly an awe-inspiring spectacle.
Moral of the story: Looks aren't everything.
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Make up your mind. Should we seek out and appreciate the ugly beauty in those hate-mongering, murderous bastards, or should we condemn them and curse their burning crosses for the ugly symbols of hatred they are??
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Silversoul
Rhizome


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Re: Beauty [Re: Veritas]
#5660997 - 05/22/06 05:11 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said: Make up your mind. Should we seek out and appreciate the ugly beauty in those hate-mongering, murderous bastards, or should we condemn them and curse their burning crosses for the ugly symbols of hatred they are??
Both. We should appreciate the lessons that we learn from them, and try to teach those lessons to others. They provide a great example of how not to live your life, and we should be thankful for such an opportunity to learn.
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
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I agree. So what does that have to do with their pretty burning crosses and freshly-bleached hoods? Will I learn more about the KKK by looking at pictures of the people they have tortured and hanged? Can I truly grasp the depths of their bigotry, fear & hatred of those who are different without gazing upon the mutilated bodies of their victims?
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Silversoul
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Re: Beauty [Re: Veritas]
#5661007 - 05/22/06 05:17 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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My point is that beauty is not about looks. We are repulsed by the picture of a burning cross, even though it is aesthetically quite pleasing to the eye? Why? Because of what it represents. Meaning is what truly counts, and when you see how things are interconnected, you will understand how they are beautiful.
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Cherk
Fashionable


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it is not the lessons we learn from gore, but rather the gore itself that is beautiful
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I have considered such matters. SIKE
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


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I had to skim through the majority of the posts because I feel compelled to make my reply, and do not want to lose my line of thought. 
I personally appreciated the picture of the man with the shotgun. It was certainly the one that caught my attention the most. I couldn't help but analyze it and look it over.
First off, I don't buy the attitude that "this stuff is everywhere and that it is not appropriate here, that the media propagates this kind of stuff and etc. etc. etc.". That picture was raw, it was a straight-forward glimpse of an aspect of life, and I highly doubt that you are going to see something that graphic in the media.
It was provoking. It made me think. It expressed a lot. It is truly sickening, but one has to ask oneself why. One begins to ponder the specific situation that was responsible for that outcome. Why is it that life, filled with so much beauty, resulted in that?
The same can be asked about the picture of the black man hanging from a tree. It is all about perspective. Someone who has to consciously process an image such as that and its ramifications is going to come to different conclusionss and decide to behave differently than a young man brought up in a society of rednecks who simply do not identify with the result of their actions agansit others.
What is beauty? Beauty isn't the same thing as "pretty", most certainly. It isn't simply just something that is aesthetically appealing. Beauty is representation, conveyance of some aspect of nature and reality... beauty is contrast. Beauty implies awareness.
Beauty equates with reality, I'd dare say. 
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
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Ahhh...I see, so it is the meaning behind the lame polaroid of a shotgun suicide which makes it inspiring and beautiful. 
You're all over the place on this one, buddy. Either it is all beautiful because it is all part of the oneness of existence, and what the fuck is MY problem if I can't appreciate the beauty of exploded brain tissue on a wall, OR it is the meaning behind what we see which makes it beautiful or ugly.
If the meaning behind the shotgun pic is that he was so overcome with despair and self-loathing that he decided to chomp on a gun barrel, then the photo is ugly, regardless of how much we could appreciate the image. If it is ALL beautiful, then the flaming cross would be just as inspiring and magical as the gore.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


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Re: Beauty [Re: Veritas]
#5661032 - 05/22/06 05:26 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
You're all over the place on this one, buddy.
No I'm not. My point is the same as it ever was. The meaning behind the shotgun pic is not just that he ended his life out of despair, but that it disturbs us because of how it reminds us of our own mortality. It is an opportunity to grow, and that is a beautiful thing.
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DoctorJ


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Re: Beauty [Re: Veritas]
#5661041 - 05/22/06 05:30 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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here is what I think is truly beautiful:













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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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You're confusing the meaning with the potentially-provoked reaction. The meaning of that image is not how we personally react to it, as each of our reactions is different. One person might be sickened, another saddened, another excited, another annoyed (me.)
The meaning of a burning cross would not exist without the context of the KKK using it as their "calling card." If we were ignorant of the KKK's existence, the image you posted would not necessarily be perceived as evil or ugly.
The meaning of someone with their head blown to bits is fairly self-evident, however. You can call it an opportunity to grow if you wish, and even use it that way if you can, but the image is not changed by your actions. Nor is the intention of the one who posted it.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


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Re: Beauty [Re: Veritas]
#5661052 - 05/22/06 05:34 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Since when is beauty not in the eye of the beholder?
Beauty is nothing without meaning, which is nothing without awareness.
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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DoctorJ


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Re: Beauty [Re: Veritas]
#5661062 - 05/22/06 05:37 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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how do you know the intentions of those that post? 
don't let me catch you using your psychic powers again, young lady.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


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Re: Beauty [Re: Veritas]
#5661068 - 05/22/06 05:40 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said: The meaning of that image is not how we personally react to it, as each of our reactions is different.
The meaning of the image is the meaning which we give it. Meaning is not inherent.
Quote:
The meaning of someone with their head blown to bits is fairly self-evident, however.
Meaning is never self-evident.
Quote:
You can call it an opportunity to grow if you wish, and even use it that way if you can, but the image is not changed by your actions. Nor is the intention of the one who posted it.
It is our perception of the image that gives the image any meaning, any substance, and relevance. Without our meaning for it, it is simply an arrangement of sensory data. Beauty certainly is not inherent as meaning is not.
Are you proposing a sense of objective beauty?
Also, are you asserting that you are capable of knowing intention of other posters, simply through perceiving their actions? This sort of reminds me of the Swami thing, and I'm surprised to see you on an altogether different side of the issue... 
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


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Re: Beauty [Re: Veritas]
#5661077 - 05/22/06 05:46 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said: We do not need gory sensationalistic images to remind us of our mortality...we can watch the seasons pass, knowing that our winter will come. We can see vast deserts, where once was an ocean brimming with life. We can observe the innocent delight of a dolphin contemplating his meal.
This seems to be an appeal to what we should and should not engage in, in terms of reflecting on our nature.
Obviously, we do not need any specific image to remind us of anything, but we are capable of utilizing anything that life offers us in order to contemplate life and the meaning we prescribe to it.
We can observe all of these things, and we can observe a picture of the aftermath of someone shooting oneself in the head.
You seem to be pronouncing your personal preference as to what we should and not observe in order for ourselves to reflect on life. We need what we need, which is whatever happens to unfold, and I'm surprised to see it suggested differently.
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Silversoul
Rhizome


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I remember a while back, Veritas posted about the movie "I Heart Huckabees." I just saw it recently. It seems strange that the person who recommended the movie seems to have missed the point of it.
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DoctorJ


Registered: 06/30/03
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the problem is, people misinterpret things that are universal and take the wrong points away from them.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
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What was the point of it? Never saw it. 
On another note, what role does interpretation and perspective play in art? What is art's connection with beauty? Communication is an interplay between both reality/environment/another and oneself. What is being communicated inevitably depends on reality itself and the observer of reality.
Beauty springs forth as the result of this communication (communion ). At the very least, it certainly doesn't rely solely on the object or state itself for its beauty. Perception is necessary for beauty to exist.
The fact that an image, regardless of what that image represents, can provoke feelings and thoughts within us is beautiful. Beauty isn't limited to a delight in aesthetic appeal.
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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faslimy
Dead Man

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Re: Beauty [Re: DoctorJ]
#5661116 - 05/22/06 05:58 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
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Quote:
fireworks_god said: What was the point of it? Never saw it. 
Essentially the same point I'm making now: Everything is interconnected. While we want to just live for the good times, we can't just gloss over the human drama that consumes us. It's all part of the same seamless tapestry.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


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Re: Beauty [Re: faslimy]
#5661126 - 05/22/06 06:00 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
faslimy said:
I won't... even ask.... 


 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
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I object much more strongly to that image there than anyone has to the suicide picture. 

 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
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That guy looks familiar.
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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1. The meaning of a suicide photo is fairly self-evident in that it depicts someone who has killed themself. This is by contrast with a photo of a burning cross, which has meaning because of the context in which we place it.
2. I did not say I KNEW what his intention was, but that someone else's attempt to use a gory photo for growth would not CHANGE that intention. Read it again, please. I make no claims to understand exactly why psilocyberin posted that photo, though I have my opinions about it.
3. By definition, beauty is not that which disgusts, repels & shocks. Do you want to change the meaning of the word to suit your point?
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


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Re: Beauty [Re: faslimy]
#5661145 - 05/22/06 06:06 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with you? That is disturbing as fucking hell! 

You are lucky I have to work overnights tonight, otherwise I would not be able to fall asleep. Then you'd be in worse trouble. 
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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faslimy
Dead Man

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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
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This is the type of stuff I object to. It rises no emotion in me. It is nothing, like an infants random finger "painting".
When comparing the nice landscape pictures to the suicide pictures, which one affected you more emotionally, which one did you look at longer?
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Quote:
Silversoul said:
Quote:
fireworks_god said: What was the point of it? Never saw it. 
Essentially the same point I'm making now: Everything is interconnected. While we want to just live for the good times, we can't just gloss over the human drama that consumes us. It's all part of the same seamless tapestry.
We don't have the CHOICE to gloss over the human drama...that is what the movie was about. No matter how high on the hill of enlightenment we climb, eventually we will be in the muck. No need for a special detour into the swamp to ensure that we are "balanced." 
My POV on the darker side of life is that it IS. I see more than enough of it without seeking it out, just as I refrain from seeking out spoiled food or dog shit. I know that I will run across it without any effort on my part.
What I object to is the idea that we should glorify dog shit, just because it exists.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Beauty [Re: Veritas]
#5661172 - 05/22/06 06:12 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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You didn't have to seek out the shotgun pic. Someone else posted it, so now you have to deal with it. And the way you've dealt with it is to deny that you should have to deal with it.
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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No, what I've denied is that it is appropriate, that it is beautiful, and that it is inspiring. I did not ask for it to be posted in this thread, and I suspect that it was posted to stir up controversy.
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DoctorJ


Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Beauty [Re: Veritas]
#5661221 - 05/22/06 06:25 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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dispense with your knowledge, and gain wisdom, dear teacher.
Here's a poem some friends of mine wrote just for you:
I HATE LOVE SONGS by GWAR
I hate love songs and I hate lovers I hate everything that I can't have so I hate you I hate love songs and I hate lovers I hate everything that I can't have so I hate you I hate movies with happy endings Like that one I saw where all the girls were beautiful like you Like you I hate wet dreams and masturbation I hate everything that feels good like sex with you I hate flowers and little birdies Makes me wanna puke when I see something cuddily like you I'm bored with your insanity I'm too tired to smile at your stupidity You've got the very best of me fell in love push came to shove but you broke so easily I love hate songs 'bout mass destruction other people's pain takes my mind off you I love puppies when they're road-kill They're too cute too live, too cute to live like you I'm bored with immortality I'm too tired to stick it out for eternity You've got the very best of me fell in love push came to shove and you broke so easily I hate love songs I hate love so I hate you
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Beauty [Re: Veritas]
#5661223 - 05/22/06 06:25 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Kind of like how Catherine Vauban stirs up controversy by sleeping with Albert Markovski to teach both him and Tony Corn about the inevitability of human drama? Sometimes stirring things up is good. We can't just hit ourselves with a rubber ball all day.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 13 days
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Re: Beauty [Re: Veritas]
#5661237 - 05/22/06 06:29 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said: ...and I suspect that it was posted to stir up controversy.
I think it is the manner in which certain individuals reacted to it that stirred up controversy.
Mushman himself posted the picture and offered an explanation, his viewpoint on the matter, why the picture meant what it did to him in the context of this thread. The "controversy" exists almost entirely as your objections to its being posted in this thread and your assertions regarding the intent of the poster.
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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KidgardFromSRQ
Strange

Registered: 05/30/05
Posts: 1,501
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
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Re: Beauty [Re: Veritas]
#5661246 - 05/22/06 06:31 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Scotland I went there once when I was 7, it was beautiful. Went around glascow and the coastal country areas.
-------------------- Be nice to people in general. Even if you don't like them.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 13 days
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Re: Beauty [Re: Veritas]
#5661250 - 05/22/06 06:32 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said: No, what I've denied is that it is appropriate, that it is beautiful, and that it is inspiring in my eyes
This is a forum, after all.
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Sinbad
Living TheMoment


Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 2,571
Loc: Under The Bodhi Tree
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Re: Beauty [Re: DoctorJ]
#5661257 - 05/22/06 06:34 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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This is amazing syncronisity, I was listening to Nirvana10 minutes before i clicked on this thread, and was wondering half way through the track "Somethings in the Way", and thinking what a beautiful track it was. Shortky afterwards i was thinking to myself about his suicide and how i wanted to to see the picture of the crime). I click on this thread and there it is, amazing! Karma is so infitely complex sometimes! 
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 13 days
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Re: Beauty [Re: Sinbad]
#5661267 - 05/22/06 06:37 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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That was Kurt Cobain? 
Wow, now that picture represents so much more.
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
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Quote:
beauty: The quality that gives pleasure to the mind or senses and is associated with such properties as harmony of form or color, excellence of artistry, truthfulness, and originality.
With this definition in mind, please explain why psilocyberin's picture is beautiful.
Edited by MushmanTheManic (05/22/06 06:49 PM)
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
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Quote:
Silversoul said: They provide a great example of how not to live your life
Hey man, by lynching a black man, they're just creating beautiful art!
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moog
Stranger

Registered: 02/15/05
Posts: 1,296
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I think the argument in this thread stems from the difference between beauty that is felt, and beauty that is intellectualised. Beauty that is intellectualised does not feel good to look at. Such things are rationalised as beautiful rather than simply felt. Of course that is just my opinion of what i have observed in this thread.
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
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Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Quote:
MushmanTheManic said:
Quote:
Silversoul said: They provide a great example of how not to live your life
Hey man, by lynching a black man, they're just creating beautiful art!
so, do you really think it is helping your argument to say that taking the picture, or appreciating the picture is the equivalent to lynching any person (what does black have to do with it also?)?
Do you condem the wartime photographers that usually win awards with their depiction of death, gore and agony? It is a picture, and I find beauty in it, I don't see why that bothers so many of you?
Because I like sites like Ogrish.com, suicide pics, or anything of that nature, it doesn't mean I condone those things, or those acts. I dont find the acts beautiful, but the depiction as a picture, but I probably would stick around to watch the beauty of someone blowing their brains out with a shotgun as well, but I wouldn't participate in a lynching, but I might watch it if I found it to be interesting and beautiful.
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Quote:
fireworks_god said:
Quote:
Veritas said: ...and I suspect that it was posted to stir up controversy.
I think it is the manner in which certain individuals reacted to it that stirred up controversy.
Mushman himself posted the picture and offered an explanation, his viewpoint on the matter, why the picture meant what it did to him in the context of this thread. The "controversy" exists almost entirely as your objections to its being posted in this thread and your assertions regarding the intent of the poster.
Mushman didn't post the shotgun suicide, it was psilocyberin.
IMO, his explanation was insincere and defensive. He posted a photo which was deliberately opposite to the topic of the thread. Whether I fully understand his intentions or not, his actions were out of line. He also mocked the thread in the commentary to his photo (rainbows coming out of a frog's ass anyone?)
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Springs
Mine(d)


Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 330
Loc: sky hi
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
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When I see pictures of negative feeling I dont think thats beauty. Someone who ate the end of the barrel was not wanting to display beauty, I feel the pain and darkness. Oh wow I feel when I see things like that, its powerfully, hurray, I dont gloss over it, I feel it, and I dont exactly want to when Im feeling the positive, inspiring pictures. What is beautiful in the shot gun suicide picture? The realness? The impact it has? Bah thats lame what "isn't" real, its like saying everything is fucked, and girls are bad. Sure you could argue that that represents the one and the all, anyone can argue anything and not "lose"
beauty is when I feel moved positively.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Beauty [Re: Springs]
#5661573 - 05/22/06 07:59 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Those remind me of the time I spent in the Fiji islands. Very beautiful.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: Beauty [Re: Veritas]
#5661763 - 05/22/06 08:45 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said:
Quote:
fireworks_god said:
Quote:
Veritas said: ...and I suspect that it was posted to stir up controversy.
I think it is the manner in which certain individuals reacted to it that stirred up controversy.
Mushman himself posted the picture and offered an explanation, his viewpoint on the matter, why the picture meant what it did to him in the context of this thread. The "controversy" exists almost entirely as your objections to its being posted in this thread and your assertions regarding the intent of the poster.
Mushman didn't post the shotgun suicide, it was psilocyberin.
IMO, his explanation was insincere and defensive. He posted a photo which was deliberately opposite to the topic of the thread. Whether I fully understand his intentions or not, his actions were out of line. He also mocked the thread in the commentary to his photo (rainbows coming out of a frog's ass anyone?)
Doesn't this just prove the point that your entire opposition to my picture is one of a personal and biased nature and not a genuine rational bitching?
If this was say... Gomp who had posted, would you harp so much about my insincerity? the reason i posted a disclaimer with the original post was because I didn't want someone asking for a ban over something which I truly feel is important.
I think you are trying to be some aesthetic nazi, all you had to do was say "I disagree, I find no beauty in that", but you had to bend over backwards to try and invalidate my opinion... which is just ridiculous. You asked people to post pictures of things they found to be beautiful, and I did, and for some reason you can't handle that.
Frankly, i dont think it mattered what picture I posted, we would still be having this conversation. But thanks for all the funny ad hominem type attacks without ever truly debating the actual points of beauty!
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: Beauty [Re: Springs]
#5662018 - 05/22/06 09:41 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Springs said:
beauty is when I feel moved positively.
if a picture of a lynched person, or a suicide doesn't move you in a positive way then you aren't getting the point.
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
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Do you condem the wartime photographers that usually win awards with their depiction of death, gore and agony?
No, but I certianly don't think it can be considered beautiful.
It is a picture, and I find beauty in it, I don't see why that bothers so many of you?
When a person looks at a picture of some poor bastard's brains splattered all over the wall, then remarks that this bastard's tattered remains is a pleasing sight, I start to get worried about the future of humanity.
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
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well, I am honestly sorry that the future of humanity cannot incorporate your morale judgement into its being. /cynicism
get over yourself. Jesus. seriously.... I just laughed outloud at how pretentious and ignorant your statement was.
Who the fuck am I to wish that all of humanity doesn't sing together like a Dr. Seuss sing-a-long, clasp hands and dance in the long green grass as we tell each other how great their individuality is?
Your entire outlook on life physically disgusts me.
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
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I'm glad you've found something that digusts you. It is a step in the right direction.
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Disco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR

Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 2,601
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Re: Beauty [Re: Veritas]
#5662502 - 05/23/06 12:00 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said: 3. By definition, beauty is not that which disgusts, repels & shocks. Do you want to change the meaning of the word to suit your point?
I agree.
It's astounding how many people (I say this without thought of anyone in particular or thought of this thread) will figure that by displaying what they consider to be the antithesis of a subject that they've somehow actually touched upon a deeper reality. If I could put it in a rhyme then it would be "Pop philosophy is intellectual mockery." If you aren't using the proper definitions of words then you really aren't referring to the intended topic when those words are used. Further, beauty cannot be sustained without life, because its essence is found within it.
Quote:
It is a picture, and I find beauty in it, I don't see why that bothers so many of you?
Not to fuel an argument, but if you've seen beauty in that picture (which I have not looked at. By what I've read of it is sounds like the kind of thing which is undesireable for me) then can you not explain the beauty you see, point to what concept it's coming from and it's overall message? I can do this with where I find beauty, I can pinpoint what it stirs up in me no matter how grand that beauty is. Of course, if you couldn't identify what it did within you then you'd really have no reason to claim that it was beauty at all. So instead of having an argument over whether there is beauty there or not why not have the suggested element of beauty exposed, so that it can be analyzed to see whether it is in actually beauty?
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
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You really wonder why people have a problem with the picture you posted? In a thread that was supposed to be about beautiful pictures of nature, no less. And you dare call me pretentious and ignorant?
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evolprim
human


Registered: 05/07/06
Posts: 1,226
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
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Re: Beauty [Re: Veritas]
#5662569 - 05/23/06 12:18 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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i apoligize if its been done before in this thread but this is the pinnacle of "natural beauty to me" a form so simple yet so extraordinarily complex.. makes up the simplest organism and the complex humans here: http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/express/newsroom/pressreleases/images/20030501b.jpg
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Disco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR

Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 2,601
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Quote:
Disco Cat said:
Quote:
It is a picture, and I find beauty in it, I don't see why that bothers so many of you?
Not to fuel an argument, but if you've seen beauty in that picture (which I have not looked at. By what I've read of it is sounds like the kind of thing which is undesireable for me) then can you not explain the beauty you see, point to what concept it's coming from and it's overall message? I can do this with where I find beauty, I can pinpoint what it stirs up in me no matter how grand that beauty is. Of course, if you couldn't identify what it did within you then you'd really have no reason to claim that it was beauty at all. So instead of having an argument over whether there is beauty there or not why not have the suggested element of beauty exposed, so that it can be analyzed to see whether it is in actually beauty?
I would also add that suicide does not fit the description of "natural beauty" (which the thread asks for) as it is an intervention which diverts the natural process of life.
evolprim, more pls! 
Quote:
It is beautiful in a more profound sense. It doesn't mean there isn't ugliness, but even the ugliness is beautiful because it is part of the greater workings of creation. Creation comes out of destruction. The same force that wiped out Hiroshima is also the force that powers the sun and allows life to exist on earth. Existence is beautiful because it is a complete tapestry of dark and light.
Not even slightly. Ugliness does not reflect the progress of the greater working of creation - it is a dent, and the progress away from the ugliness is what represent the greater working of creation. Creation actually comes out of previous creation, destruction holds back further beauty and causes one more chore for creation to take care of. The 5th element is only a movie, and if you'll recall, the man who spoke that philosophy was also the deceitful bad guy of the flic, who's philosophy was ended along with him.
The same force that wiped out hiroshima is not the same force that powers the sun and allows flowers to grow. Flowers don't grow by having nuclear explosions happen all over the lawn - they are of a similar energy, however whether it is a beautiful or ugly force is differentiated by its method, application & result.
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
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Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Quote:
Disco Cat said: Not to fuel an argument, but if you've seen beauty in that picture (which I have not looked at. By what I've read of it is sounds like the kind of thing which is undesireable for me)
so how can you claim that I have no point regarding the picture I have posted if you have yet to read my post, as well as have yet to see the picture? YOU ARE OUT OF YOUR ELEMENT DONNIE!.
Quote:
I would also add that suicide does not fit the description of "natural beauty" (which the thread asks for) as it is an intervention which diverts the natural process of life.
what exactly makes suicide unnatural? If I were to show a video of Lemmings commiting suicide en masse, would it not have been a picture of Beauty? If I were to show the part of Alice in Wonderland where the clams were being led to slaughter, would that be grotesque?
I think you need to first become aware of your social conditioning which forces you to be revolted by certain scenes or pictures, and then overcome those feelings so that you can be appreciative of all things.
Commiting suicide is a part of life, a part of existence. For you to claim that it is "unnatural" or whatever, like some bible thumping christian making all their claims based on a book of morals, that is just laughable.... honestly.
People have committed suicide for thousands upon thousands of years, it isn't some new "fad", it is a part of existence.
I have given a very detailed reason as to why I believe that picture to be beautiful, yet you have yet to give any reason why it isn't beautiful besides the fact that it is "socially unacceptable".... which is complete bullshit, and if that is all the foundation of your argument, then please do yourself a favor and walk away from your keyboard.
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Springs
Mine(d)


Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 330
Loc: sky hi
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
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Who's point? The photographers? The victem? Yours? Mine? Tao?
Tell me what the happy ascpects are of a gory suicide? Hurray!? His spirit is free?!?!
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Sinbad
Living TheMoment


Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 2,571
Loc: Under The Bodhi Tree
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Re: Beauty [Re: Springs]
#5663362 - 05/23/06 09:00 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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The action of the suicide is not the issue of this argument. The picture of the end result however, is striking, and filled with meaning. But beauty is always in the eye of the beholder.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 13 days
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Quote:
MushmanTheManic said:
Quote:
beauty: The quality that gives pleasure to the mind or senses and is associated with such properties as harmony of form or color, excellence of artistry, truthfulness, and originality.
With this definition in mind, please explain why psilocyberin's picture is beautiful.
That isn't the exact definition I had in mind. "Exciting intellectual admiration" is much closer, although aspects of your definition, such as"truthfulness", pertain as well.
I did not find the picture beautiful in the sense that the scene was visually, aesthetically pleasing, and this is not the only conception of beauty that is around.
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 13 days
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Re: Beauty [Re: Sinbad]
#5663427 - 05/23/06 09:26 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sinbad said: The action of the suicide is not the issue of this argument. The picture of the end result however, is striking, and filled with meaning. But beauty is always in the eye of the beholder.
Its great to see a reasonable, sensible perspective on the matter. 
The color arrangement of the picture is not appealing. The scenery isn't remarkable. The object of interest isn't pleasing.
A picture is said to be a thousand words, and words represent meaning. Meaning is what we are dealing with, and it is from meaning that beauty is derived.
The fact that meaning itself is beautiful doesn't make it any easier. 
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Disco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR

Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 2,601
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Quote:
psilocyberin said:
Quote:
Disco Cat said:
so how can you claim that I have no point regarding the picture I have posted if you have yet to read my post, as well as have yet to see the picture? YOU ARE OUT OF YOUR ELEMENT DONNIE!.
...... what exactly makes suicide unnatural? If I were to show a video of Lemmings commiting suicide en masse, would it not have been a picture of Beauty? If I were to show the part of Alice in Wonderland where the clams were being led to slaughter, would that be grotesque?
I think you need to first become aware of your social conditioning which forces you to be revolted by certain scenes or pictures, and then overcome those feelings so that you can be appreciative of all things.
Commiting suicide is a part of life, a part of existence. For you to claim that it is "unnatural" or whatever, like some bible thumping christian making all their claims based on a book of morals, that is just laughable.... honestly.
People have committed suicide for thousands upon thousands of years, it isn't some new "fad", it is a part of existence.
I have given a very detailed reason as to why I believe that picture to be beautiful, yet you have yet to give any reason why it isn't beautiful besides the fact that it is "socially unacceptable".... which is complete bullshit, and if that is all the foundation of your argument, then please do yourself a favor and walk away from your keyboard.
You're wacked out. I never said you have no point, I suggested you end the argument by discussion the point of beauty which you find in the photo. And I have seen it now, actually I saw it 30 seconds after I made that post yesterday. "Social conditioning" is one of the cheapest excuses you could have made on the topic. You clearly do not know the meanin of "natural" and so nobodys going to listen to you when you try to claim that this picture represents anything that fits the description "natural." You need to spend less time smoking and more time thinking. Here are some definitions of "natural" from dictionary.com: Not produced or changed artificially; not conditioned Not altered, treated, or disguised: natural coloring; natural produce. Faithfully representing nature or life.
So before you pretend to know what you're talking about try spending some time first with your nose in a book, educating yourself, mmm k?
Commiting suicide is not a part of life, because it is in definition death. That one didn't even start of with a bit of logic.
This shit you post about "People have committed suicide for thousands upon thousands of years, it isn't some new "fad", it is a part of existence" a failed attempt to prove something. People have been having wars just as long - but that doesn't prove that murdering someone is now a life-bringing act, meant to be done harmoniously with the universe all at one.
Wait... I'm not going to bother continuing with your post, it is just too lacking in common intelligence. If you retort so will I, but if you don't have the capacity to do a good job of it then leave it alone, please.
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Yes, my beef with your picture was based on my personal preferences and biases.
I wanted a thread based on pleasurable images and inspiration, and I did not get it.
I apologize for my temper tantrum. Not as an excuse, but as an explanation--I was not feeling well yesterday.
Certainly you are just as entitled to your definition of beauty as I am to mine. I will look elsewhere for the images and discussion I desired, rather than attempting to create something here which does not naturally exist.
Carry on.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 13 days
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Re: Beauty [Re: Veritas]
#5663736 - 05/23/06 11:04 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said: wanted a thread based on pleasurable images and inspiration, and I did not get it.
I was inspired, on a variety of levels.
 Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: Beauty [Re: Veritas]
#5664314 - 05/23/06 12:57 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said: Yes, my beef with your picture was based on my personal preferences and biases.
I wanted a thread based on pleasurable images and inspiration, and I did not get it.
I apologize for my temper tantrum. Not as an excuse, but as an explanation--I was not feeling well yesterday.
Certainly you are just as entitled to your definition of beauty as I am to mine. I will look elsewhere for the images and discussion I desired, rather than attempting to create something here which does not naturally exist.
Carry on.
I wouldn't have posted it if you only wanted nice landscape/frogs/rainbows type pictures.
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Now who's reading minds? 
Quote:
Post the most inspiring photo of natural beauty you can find.
Does this equal only frogs and rainbows? No. Has anyone posted photos of frogs OR rainbows? No.
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Quote:
Disco Cat said:
You're wacked out. I never said you have no point,
let me stop you right there and give you a quote from your last post since you forget so easily.....
Quote:
Not to fuel an argument, but if you've seen beauty in that picture (which I have not looked at. By what I've read of it is sounds like the kind of thing which is undesireable for me) then can you not explain the beauty you see, point to what concept it's coming from and it's overall message?
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"Social conditioning" is one of the cheapest excuses you could have made on the topic. You clearly do not know the meanin of "natural" and so nobodys going to listen to you when you try to claim that this picture represents anything that fits the description "natural." You need to spend less time smoking and more time thinking.
I don't think you even understand the term "social conditioning" nor did you even come close to grasping the context in which it was used.
Also, you have still yet to give any reason as to why suicide is unnatural as well as why it isn't beautiful. What is unnatural about suicide? it is like trying to say that masturbation is unnatural, and then you just start sounding like a cross-waving, christian fundamentalist. Do you really think that humans are above nature? that we are not a part of nature? everything we do, therefor, is natural, from suicide to riding ponies.
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Here are some definitions of "natural" from dictionary.com: Not produced or changed artificially; not conditioned Not altered, treated, or disguised: natural coloring; natural produce. Faithfully representing nature or life.
AND? so how does that prove my picture is unnatural?
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So before you pretend to know what you're talking about try spending some time first with your nose in a book, educating yourself, mmm k?
amazing how after three posts, no actual points to an argument, basically everything being an ad hominem or an attempt to divert the discussion towards semantics, you finally decide to end it with the 4th grade equivalent of "get a brain".
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Commiting suicide is not a part of life, because it is in definition death. That one didn't even start of with a bit of logic.
depends on how your spirituality is, most people who "have a brain" (lol) would say that the opposite of death would be birth, not life. Death is a part of life, because as we all look at that picture, it is not us who is dead.... get it? maybe you should abandon your logic, because it isn't helping you in any way.
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This shit you post about "People have committed suicide for thousands upon thousands of years, it isn't some new "fad", it is a part of existence" a failed attempt to prove something. People have been having wars just as long - but that doesn't prove that murdering someone is now a life-bringing act, meant to be done harmoniously with the universe all at one.
why did you even post this? what is this in rebuttal to? this is starting to become very funny, the way that you have yet to make any points, debate or counterclaim anything but with personal statements. What is all this side tracking BS about wars and harmonious, universal living?
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Wait... I'm not going to bother continuing with your post, it is just too lacking in common intelligence. If you retort so will I, but if you don't have the capacity to do a good job of it then leave it alone, please.
isn't this exactly what I told you in my last post? yet you continued to spout an entire page of blather with only one or two sentences with actual substance regarding this discussion.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 13 days
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Quote:
psilocyberin said: isn't this exactly what I told you in my last post? yet you continued to spout an entire page of blather with only one or two sentences with actual substance regarding this discussion.
That's Disco Cat for you. 
What's even better is when he makes comments about you like the one I just made about him.
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: Beauty [Re: Veritas]
#5664598 - 05/23/06 01:48 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said:
Post the most inspiring photo of natural beauty you can find.
the only word that is even somewhat objective is "natural". inspiring and beauty are completely subjective.
Quote:
Has anyone posted photos of frogs OR rainbows? No.
actually, yes, both frogs and rainbows have been posted. I suggest you go back and look.
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Typo, that should have read "had anyone posted photos of frogs or rainbows." I was referring to the fact that you included that mocking description of this thread in your explanation of your photo choice, at a time when no such images had been posted.
(I believe that David vs. Goliath added the rainbow and frogs later.)
Regardless, you were snide about the photos which others had posted, and implied that it was superior to view your photo as beautiful.
I didn't appreciate the post or the explanation, and I expressed that in my posts.
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: Beauty [Re: Veritas]
#5664656 - 05/23/06 01:58 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/5657720/page/0/fpart/2/vc/1
seriously, I don't want to derail this thread any more than it has been, or argue about this stupid semantic bullshit, but when you are wrong, you are just really wrong.
Pictures of frogs and rainbows were both posted before I even posted on this thread.
edit to veritas edit: no he didn't add that later, that is the exact same post I was looking at when i made my first post, why do you think I used the term rainbows coming out of frogs asses?
Edited by psilocyberin (05/23/06 02:00 PM)
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BlueCoyote
Beyond


Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 6,697
Loc: Between
Last seen: 3 years, 16 days
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Thank you Disco Cat 
Death, destruction etc is not really enclosed in natural beauty. It is only a mirror which perhaps ends and founds live. I can show enough pictures of the destruction of nature, as it is too common these days (so one can see the opposite what is meant by this thread imho): http://www.greenpeace.org/international/photosvideos/photos?related_item_id=89363
The real beauty of death is a very abstract one, so not really natural and not really understandable. Click on my sig.
Edited by BlueCoyote (05/23/06 02:05 PM)
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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As I said, regardless of who posted what when, your comments about it were snide and condescending. I did not and do not like your photo, based both on content AND technical AND artistic qualities, and I would have preferred it not be posted in a thread about beauty.
That's it, that's all. I'm done.
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: Beauty [Re: Veritas]
#5664705 - 05/23/06 02:11 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said:
Regardless, you were snide about the photos which others had posted, and implied that it was superior to view your photo as beautiful.
I didn't appreciate the post or the explanation, and I expressed that in my posts.
once again, it is just personal bias which propels you to so vehemently disagree with me. I was sincere, and all you are really left with now to keep reciting is how "snide" I was about it?
I never invalidated anyones pictures, I found all of their pictures beautiful as well. I didn't think my picture was "better", I just thought it showed a very different aspect of beauty.
Like I have said before, it is the social conditioning which has forced many of the objectors to my photo to claim that a picture of a brain splattered wall isn't beautiful.
let me ask you this.... what if it was a very well done anime film, and the realism of a shotgun suicide was so detailed and well drawn, would it still not be beautiful? of course it wouldn't be natural, but that is why I didn't post that.
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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*sigh* Fine, you did not intend to be snide. I completely misinterpreted the "rainbows shining out of frog's asses" comment, and it was meant only to factually describe the preceding photos.
I've already said that it was personal bias, personal preference, etc...and apologized for my temper tantrum over it. I was being very neurotic, expecting reality to conform to my preferences. I was feeling bad, wanted to give and receive a little inspiration and enjoyment, and instead got involved in a shitstorm of debate over a stupid photo.
on the whole episode.
(P.S. Nah, I don't like anime, either. )
Here's a morgue photo of Marilyn Monroe, just to say "no hard feelings." 
Edited by Veritas (05/23/06 02:22 PM)
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: Beauty [Re: Veritas]
#5664734 - 05/23/06 02:22 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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CGI.
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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That's spooky...she looks like me! 
Same chick, yes?

Edited by Veritas (05/23/06 02:43 PM)
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Springs
Mine(d)


Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 330
Loc: sky hi
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
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Re: Beauty [Re: Veritas]
#5664754 - 05/23/06 02:29 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Some pictures taken in my backyard today.




Edited by Springs (05/23/06 02:33 PM)
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TacticalBongRip
Curious Observer


Registered: 08/20/05
Posts: 527
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While I agree that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and that everyone is entitled to their opinions, I personally can see the beauty in all the non-death/suicide pictures. My favorites were the pictures the landscapes. The last landscape picture with the rolling green hills with houses on them, that place looks amazing, straight out of a fantasy book. I feel like I could write a story about all of them.
I think above all the suicide picture represents pain,suffering, and extremely high levels of mental anguish - among other things some of which have been mentioned in this thread already. Now what im wondering is how the fuck you find beauty in that? While it is easy to rationalize why/how you find beauty in that picture I wonder what your intention was in posting it.
When someone asks for a picture of natural beauty is pain , suffering, death and suicide among the first things that come to your mind? If so i'd say you're a bit fucked up.
If these things were not among your first reactions to this thread then one must wonder the intentions of posting that which you did. What made you want to post it? My guess is in this case you were stroking your ego.
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
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I posted it for two reasons.
1) because I really find beauty in it. I could ask you the same question as to why you find beauty in the rolling meadows, but since it seems to be the most "normal" site of aesthetic appreciation, you don't have to explain yourself.... but lets say that if you did have to explain why that landscape picture is beautiful to you, how would you do it?
2) I was making a point, that beauty is not only contained in vibrant colors, rolling meadows and landscapes. How long of a google search did it take everyone to find a "beautiful" picture? Beauty is everywhere, and in everything. What this entire conversation boils down to is appreciation and affinity through aesthetics, and often, beauty is later defined through a deeper understanding that surpercedes mere aesthetics... much like the beauty of a woman, while they may have great breasts, soft skin and amazing curves, their ultimate beauty comes from who they are and what you understand about their being.
Often times, I revel in stories I create to explain certain situations, like when I am driving at 5am in the morning in the middle of nowhere and I see someone walking along the interstate in the rain... I like to think of how that is one of their worst days, and the struggles that they have had, and the relief they will have once they get to a warm, dry place. I think too much moral judgement has been emphasized in this thread, and moral judgement often comes quite harshly based solely on the NOW with a complete disregard for all the cause and effect later to come.
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Disco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR

Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 2,601
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Quote:
psilocyberin said:
Quote:
Disco Cat said:
You're wacked out. I never said you have no point,
let me stop you right there and give you a quote from your last post since you forget so easily.....
Quote:
Not to fuel an argument, but if you've seen beauty in that picture (which I have not looked at. By what I've read of it is sounds like the kind of thing which is undesireable for me) then can you not explain the beauty you see, point to what concept it's coming from and it's overall message?
I'm not bothering quoting your entire post, but let me point out this one detail which has flown over your head a couple times now. I never said you have no point, certainly not in that quote, I said if you do have a point then you can you not point the beauty you see. It's a question, not a judgement.
Yes I did explain why suicide is not natural, go back and find it. In the future don't skim other people's posts if you're going to respond.
You don't know the definition of "nature" and if you did you wouldn't think suicide is in align with nature. Allowing the body to expire through it's natural configurment would be an instance of nature. Suicide is an intervention.
Suicide is a conditioned death Suicide is an altered death Suicide is representing death, not life
just think.
Dismissing everything as unrelated to the topic is a great way to live in denial.
Death is the extinguishment of life, therefore it cannot be life itself. The beauty considered in a death would be thought of the renewal, the recycling, and the life that is coming out of it. It is not the death itself. Your picture did not show the renewal but showed the destruction. Therefore the beauty you see in it, if it were really beauty, would be projected from your own mind - but is not actually present in the photo.
Quote:
That's Disco Cat for you. 
 ^^ how to post like FWG 101. No value, all empty jabs.
Edited by Disco Cat (05/23/06 05:34 PM)
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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no, you didnt explain why suicide was unnatural, you gave a strawman argument, and a weak one at that, by giving the definition of natural, which in no way applied to proving that suicide was unnatural.
suicide is an altered death? where are you getting this? according to what? the bible? the great law of universal constants? is it an altered death when lemmings do it?
it represents death? what doesn't? isn't death and life an integral yin-yang type system? a vibrant flower, full of life, will one day decompose and die to become food for another flower.
here is a great explanation of why your debating skills are worthless...
Quote:
Death is the extinguishment of life, therefore it cannot be life itself.
here, you don't even equate, you state it as a fact that what we are talking about, "unnatural" is synonymous with "death", and that life is natural, and since suicide isn't life, it is not natural.
This is what you have been doing the entire time, without ever making any valid point or claim.
then you go one with your illogical conclusion to say that my picture did not show renewal, as if renewal as well is a defining factor of nature.
You saying my picture is not beautiful, because it is gross is the exact same as me saying the picture of the frogs is not beautiful, because it is gross. It is all opinion, and apparently you can't handle my opinion, even though I have given pages of explanations about the beauty of that picture, yet you all refuse to let it go and continue to try and invalidate my opinion of the picture through poor debate tactics, which has ultimately shown you to have no leg to stand on in this argument.
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Disco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR

Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 2,601
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No, I don't think "unnatural is synonymous with "death" and I don't think renewal is the defining factor of nature. Please waste more time making fictional accounts of what I think and claim.
I suggested that the beauty that people normally claim to find in death and decay actually turns out to be the recycling of life and its renewal - and I said that if that is what you are claiming to see then no, it is not actually contained within the picture but is instead suggested.
If you see a different beauty then it is up to you speak up and say what it is.
The beauty of the picture of someone sacrificing themselves has nothing to do with the death itself, and the death is not what is beautiful about it. The beauty is the sacrifice - the stong desire for a benefit of life that person wanted others to have, and nothing to do with the fire. The fire was an unfortunate means to send the message of the sacrifice. Hence the sacrifice is beautiful, the death is not. Therefore while the picture sends a message of a beauty it is not the picture itself that is beautiful.
What doesn't represent death? Life. Where is beauty found? It isn't in death, however death may be present at a scene of beauty.
And suicide is an altered death. Allowing the body to expire on its own would be a natural death, any other is, like I've said, intervention.
Edited by Disco Cat (05/23/06 07:26 PM)
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
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ok...
1) my thesis regardin why I found beauty in the picture is contained in the post with the original picture, if you dont find that satisfactory, then please break it down and explain why it isn't satisfactory.
2) would you please address how a human committing suicide is different than a lemming commiting suicide instead of ignoring that completely.
3) there is beauty in death. this statement carries as much weight as your statement of the contrary. You sit here and say I have yet to fully explain myself regarding this, as well as accusing me of not reading your posts fully, and don't require the same for yourself. im willing to bet you have still yet to fully read and understand my very first post.
4) a list of things that a large percentage of the populous finds beautiful: birth, sex, physical mutilation (tattoo's, peircings, body augmentation).
those are only a few things I could think off the top of my head which could as well be perceived by others as "grotesque" and especially the latter, "unnatural".
I would also like to add as a final thought: circumcision.
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freddurgan
Techgnostic


Registered: 01/11/04
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Re: Beauty [Re: Veritas]
#5666473 - 05/23/06 08:57 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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So beautiful.
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
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i agree..... also, thanks for making a great point regardin this topic.
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BlueCoyote
Beyond


Registered: 05/07/04
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Loc: Between
Last seen: 3 years, 16 days
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Hmmm..showing the beautifulness of a fragile organism, by its destruction is worth questioning the intention. Maybe freddurgan was ironic ?
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
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can you honestly say that the sight of a nuclear explosion and its mushroom cloud isn't beautiful?
can any of you explain why a mushroom cloud isn't beautiful? because, I can understand how some people struggle to grasp how a shotgun suicide isn't beautiful (no matter how much I disagree) but something like a mushroom cloud is aesthetically pleasing, even though it shows such great destruction and anguish.
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Disco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR

Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 2,601
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A mushroom cloud does not show destruction and anguish, it shows a mushroom cloud. I think that mushroom cloud shows aesthetics in its form and color contrast, how it holds so much light in the center while blocks all of it from escaping to the exterior, how it builds across the sky, and how symmetrical it is as an unsentient creation... and I think there are other things which I have not put to words but could if I continued to think about it.
That picture isn't showing the death an explosion brings, it is showing the explosion - a mass of energy & a creation - itself.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,534
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named objects are not beautiful in themselves, the resonance could be, i.e. the personal meaning to you, psilocyberin, of a mushroom cloud might be beautiful, and that would be YOUR associations, and maybe only beautiful for the sake of a beautiful argument. Some do swoon on a lovely thread of challenged intelligence.
but to the point, perhaps YOU have seen a beautiful Mushroom cloud perhaps YOU have positive associations with nuclear holocaust perhaps YOU blend the mushroom cloud into the mushroom idea or the common phallus image in YOUR mind.
then again, there might be a very inspirational photograph or movie sequence that all would be moved by (I think most would cringe - is that beautiful?).
however, you might allow that I and many who have concerns about Nuclear arms proliferation, consider any ideas, themes, or words to do with mushrooom clouds would be noxious and ugly.
That does not mean we cannot be caught on some fateful day by the beauty of an unnexpected appearance of some utterly magestic apparition in the guise of a mushroom cloud (either for real or on the screen).
I would give it a 1 in 20 chance of being inspirational uplifting or beautiful ever, in the very best and very luckiest instance, which makes it a poor suggestion, as a word or idea indicative of beauty amongst a group of intelligent people.
note the photo fred posted above, has the aspect of vista and light but it is a horrible thing - destructive and overwhelming, more like the tantrum of an undisciplined child than the song of a diva.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,534
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Re: Beauty [Re: Veritas]
#5669292 - 05/24/06 04:07 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said: That's spooky...she looks like me! 
Same chick, yes?

I see a less plucked variant above.
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freddurgan
Techgnostic


Registered: 01/11/04
Posts: 3,648
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: named objects are not beautiful in themselves, the resonance could be, i.e. the personal meaning to you, psilocyberin, of a mushroom cloud might be beautiful, and that would be YOUR associations, and maybe only beautiful for the sake of a beautiful argument. Some do swoon on a lovely thread of challenged intelligence.
but to the point, perhaps YOU have seen a beautiful Mushroom cloud perhaps YOU have positive associations with nuclear holocaust perhaps YOU blend the mushroom cloud into the mushroom idea or the common phallus image in YOUR mind.
then again, there might be a very inspirational photograph or movie sequence that all would be moved by (I think most would cringe - is that beautiful?).
however, you might allow that I and many who have concerns about Nuclear arms proliferation, consider any ideas, themes, or words to do with mushrooom clouds would be noxious and ugly.
That does not mean we cannot be caught on some fateful day by the beauty of an unnexpected appearance of some utterly magestic apparition in the guise of a mushroom cloud (either for real or on the screen).
I would give it a 1 in 20 chance of being inspirational uplifting or beautiful ever, in the very best and very luckiest instance, which makes it a poor suggestion, as a word or idea indicative of beauty amongst a group of intelligent people.
note the photo fred posted above, has the aspect of vista and light but it is a horrible thing - destructive and overwhelming, more like the tantrum of an undisciplined child than the song of a diva.
If there is anything to take from this thread it's that people see things differently. I don't understand how a nuclear explosion isn't the most jaw dropping beautiful thing on earth. And I'm sure there are so many other people who disagree with me. Thats the best part of beauty.
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Quote:
redgreenvines said:
but to the point, perhaps YOU have seen a beautiful Mushroom cloud perhaps YOU have positive associations with nuclear holocaust perhaps YOU blend the mushroom cloud into the mushroom idea or the common phallus image in YOUR mind.
I have pretty much said this the whole time in other words.
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