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OfflineDoctorJ
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Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: Beauty [Re: Veritas]
    #5661062 - 05/22/06 05:37 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

how do you know the intentions of those that post?  :wink:


don't let me catch you using your psychic powers again, young lady.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
Re: Beauty [Re: Veritas]
    #5661068 - 05/22/06 05:40 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
The meaning of that image is not how we personally react to it, as each of our reactions is different.




The meaning of the image is the meaning which we give it. Meaning is not inherent.

Quote:


The meaning of someone with their head blown to bits is fairly self-evident, however.




Meaning is never self-evident.

Quote:


  You can call it an opportunity to grow if you wish, and even use it that way if you can, but the image is not changed by your actions.  Nor is the intention of the one who posted it.




It is our perception of the image that gives the image any meaning, any substance, and relevance. Without our meaning for it, it is simply an arrangement of sensory data. Beauty certainly is not inherent as meaning is not.

Are you proposing a sense of objective beauty?

Also, are you asserting that you are capable of knowing intention of other posters, simply through perceiving their actions? This sort of reminds me of the Swami thing, and I'm surprised to see you on an altogether different side of the issue... :shocked:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
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Re: Beauty [Re: Veritas]
    #5661077 - 05/22/06 05:46 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
We do not need gory sensationalistic images to remind us of our mortality...we can watch the seasons pass, knowing that our winter will come.  We can see vast deserts, where once was an ocean brimming with life.  We can observe the innocent delight of a dolphin contemplating his meal.




This seems to be an appeal to what we should and should not engage in, in terms of reflecting on our nature.

Obviously, we do not need any specific image to remind us of anything, but we are capable of utilizing anything that life offers us in order to contemplate life and the meaning we prescribe to it.

We can observe all of these things, and we can observe a picture of the aftermath of someone shooting oneself in the head.

You seem to be pronouncing your personal preference as to what we should and not observe in order for ourselves to reflect on life. We need what we need, which is whatever happens to unfold, and I'm surprised to see it suggested differently.

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
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Re: Beauty [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5661079 - 05/22/06 05:46 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I remember a while back, Veritas posted about the movie "I Heart Huckabees." I just saw it recently. It seems strange that the person who recommended the movie seems to have missed the point of it.


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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: Beauty [Re: Silversoul]
    #5661092 - 05/22/06 05:52 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

the problem is, people misinterpret things that are universal and take the wrong points away from them.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Beauty [Re: Silversoul]
    #5661096 - 05/22/06 05:53 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

What was the point of it? Never saw it. :grin:

On another note, what role does interpretation and perspective play in art? What is art's connection with beauty? Communication is an interplay between both reality/environment/another and oneself. What is being communicated inevitably depends on reality itself and the observer of reality.

Beauty springs forth as the result of this communication (communion :grin:). At the very least, it certainly doesn't rely solely on the object or state itself for its beauty. Perception is necessary for beauty to exist.

The fact that an image, regardless of what that image represents, can provoke feelings and thoughts within us is beautiful. Beauty isn't limited to a delight in aesthetic appeal.

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinefaslimy
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Re: Beauty [Re: DoctorJ]
    #5661116 - 05/22/06 05:58 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)











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InvisibleSilversoul
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Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Beauty [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5661124 - 05/22/06 06:00 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
What was the point of it? Never saw it. :grin:



Essentially the same point I'm making now:  Everything is interconnected.  While we want to just live for the good times, we can't just gloss over the human drama that consumes us.  It's all part of the same seamless tapestry.


--------------------


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Beauty [Re: faslimy]
    #5661126 - 05/22/06 06:00 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

faslimy said:





I won't... even ask.... :wtf:



:eek:

:frown:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Registered: 03/12/02
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Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
Re: Beauty [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5661130 - 05/22/06 06:01 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I object much more strongly to that image there than anyone has to the suicide picture. :nonono:


:lol: :wink:

:shocked:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
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Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Beauty [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5661136 - 05/22/06 06:03 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

That guy looks familiar.



--------------------


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InvisibleVeritas
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Posts: 11,089
Re: Beauty [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5661141 - 05/22/06 06:05 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

1. The meaning of a suicide photo is fairly self-evident in that it depicts someone who has killed themself. This is by contrast with a photo of a burning cross, which has meaning because of the context in which we place it.

2. I did not say I KNEW what his intention was, but that someone else's attempt to use a gory photo for growth would not CHANGE that intention. Read it again, please. I make no claims to understand exactly why psilocyberin posted that photo, though I have my opinions about it.

3. By definition, beauty is not that which disgusts, repels & shocks. Do you want to change the meaning of the word to suit your point?


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Beauty [Re: faslimy]
    #5661145 - 05/22/06 06:06 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with you? That is disturbing as fucking hell! :nonono:

:lol:

You are lucky I have to work overnights tonight, otherwise I would not be able to fall asleep. Then you'd be in worse trouble. :mad:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinefaslimy
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Posts: 3,436
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Re: Beauty [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5661157 - 05/22/06 06:09 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)




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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Beauty [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5661158 - 05/22/06 06:09 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)



This is the type of stuff I object to. It rises no emotion in me. It is nothing, like an infants random finger "painting".

When comparing the nice landscape pictures to the suicide pictures, which one affected you more emotionally, which one did you look at longer?


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InvisibleVeritas
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Posts: 11,089
Re: Beauty [Re: Silversoul]
    #5661160 - 05/22/06 06:10 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
Quote:

fireworks_god said:
What was the point of it? Never saw it. :grin:



Essentially the same point I'm making now:  Everything is interconnected.  While we want to just live for the good times, we can't just gloss over the human drama that consumes us.  It's all part of the same seamless tapestry.




We don't have the CHOICE to gloss over the human drama...that is what the movie was about.  No matter how high on the hill of enlightenment we climb, eventually we will be in the muck.  No need for a special detour into the swamp to ensure that we are "balanced."  :tongue:

My POV on the darker side of life is that it IS.  I see more than enough of it without seeking it out, just as I refrain from seeking out spoiled food or dog shit.  I know that I will run across it without any effort on my part.

What I object to is the idea that we should glorify dog shit, just because it exists.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Beauty [Re: Veritas]
    #5661172 - 05/22/06 06:12 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

You didn't have to seek out the shotgun pic. Someone else posted it, so now you have to deal with it. And the way you've dealt with it is to deny that you should have to deal with it.


--------------------


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Beauty [Re: Silversoul]
    #5661205 - 05/22/06 06:21 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

No, what I've denied is that it is appropriate, that it is beautiful, and that it is inspiring. I did not ask for it to be posted in this thread, and I suspect that it was posted to stir up controversy.


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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: Beauty [Re: Veritas]
    #5661221 - 05/22/06 06:25 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

dispense with your knowledge, and gain wisdom, dear teacher.


Here's a poem some friends of mine wrote just for you:

I HATE LOVE SONGS by GWAR

I hate love songs and I hate lovers
I hate everything that I can't have so I hate you
I hate love songs and I hate lovers
I hate everything that I can't have so I hate you
I hate movies with happy endings
Like that one I saw where all the girls were beautiful like you
Like you
I hate wet dreams and masturbation
I hate everything that feels good like sex with you
I hate flowers and little birdies
Makes me wanna puke when I see something cuddily like you
I'm bored with your insanity
I'm too tired to smile at your stupidity
You've got the very best of me
fell in love push came to shove but you broke so easily
I love hate songs 'bout mass destruction
other people's pain takes my mind off you
I love puppies when they're road-kill
They're too cute too live, too cute to live
like you
I'm bored with immortality
I'm too tired to stick it out for eternity
You've got the very best of me
fell in love push came to shove and you broke so easily
I hate love songs
I hate love so I hate you


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InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
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Registered: 01/01/05
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Re: Beauty [Re: Veritas]
    #5661223 - 05/22/06 06:25 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Kind of like how Catherine Vauban stirs up controversy by sleeping with Albert Markovski to teach both him and Tony Corn about the inevitability of human drama? Sometimes stirring things up is good. We can't just hit ourselves with a rubber ball all day.


--------------------


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