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porcupine
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do you give to the poor and if so how much?
#5655333 - 05/21/06 02:55 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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today a poor man asked me for money. i gave him 2 dollars. when i drove away i felt guilty for not giving him more. its so rare i get asked for money and i could certainly spare more than $2. but then i thought, what if he's a drug user? i mean its not right if everyone he asks gives him a lot of money and then he buys drugs with it. so im wondering what do you guys do in such a situation? how much do you give?
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lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl
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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: porcupine]
#5655339 - 05/21/06 03:03 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Yeah, I give money once in a while.
Last time I gave money I gave twenty bucks to a really old tired looking bum who was passed out on the street.
Usually I give 2 to 5 dollars. I don't care if they use it for drugs (almost all of them do). Once I give the money I leave it up to them to decide.
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porcupine
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well just to clarify, its not that i would be pissed off at him if i found out he used it for drugs, its just that i wouldnt feel guilty for giving less if i knew he was just using it to buy drugs.
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lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl
Stranger

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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: porcupine]
#5655358 - 05/21/06 03:24 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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This is a complicated question... maybe someone wiser could give you a good answer, I can't think of anything.
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soulcircus
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Post deleted by soulcircusReason for deletion: .
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fireworks_god
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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: soulcircus]
#5655501 - 05/21/06 06:35 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I give $2 out of every bi-weekly paycheck to the United Way. 
Usually, it is recommended that you tithe 10%, and apparently I tithe .2%. 
I guess I'm going to hell. 
 Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Basilides
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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: porcupine]
#5655528 - 05/21/06 07:04 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I donate a bit of money to charity when I have some spare cash. I tend not to give out handouts on the street, instead I offer to buy homeless people a meal. It's always kind of ironic when they refuse the free meal. Other people have been very grateful, and would talk of matters of spirituality and religion and what not. Very interesting events, I say
--------------------
    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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fireworks_god
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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: Basilides]
#5655543 - 05/21/06 07:10 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Exactly. If you are genuinely poor, a free meal and some clothes would be what you would need the most in the immediate moment, and that is what should be offered. If they need money for transportation, give them a bus pass. I remember someone saying once that they'll never give out money, but will more than gladly hook 'em up with stuff like what I mentioned.
If only people walked the streets handing poor people free alcohol and crack...
 Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Icelander
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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: fireworks_god]
#5655613 - 05/21/06 08:31 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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It's not the 2% that will put you in Hell. It's giving it to the United Way.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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DoctorJ


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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: porcupine]
#5655687 - 05/21/06 09:31 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I've given to both the rich and the poor.
zillions and zillions of dollars. More money than you ever knew existed
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niteowl
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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: DoctorJ]
#5655742 - 05/21/06 10:01 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I do NOT give any money to strangers on the street or some big organized "charity"
If a poor person asks me for money I always ask if they would mow my grass or rake my yard for $10. No one has taken me up on my $10 offer.....they were just looking for a hand out.......I don't do hand outs.

Organized charities........lining the pocket of some corporation in the hopes that they might do something worth while 
"God helps those who help themselves"
Since I'm the "God" of my reality. I only help those who are willing to help themselves.... Mainly my friends and family.
Sounds harsh. But I'm an "Old Testament" kinda guy sometimes. "Spare the rod spoil the child"
-------------------- Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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moog
Stranger

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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: niteowl]
#5655786 - 05/21/06 10:21 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I give a dollar or two to people on the street who ask. They don't need to give me a reason for why they need it. I figure if they are asking for money to begin with, they obviously need the money more than i do to even go to such lengths.
However i don't give to charities. I don't trust them. I can't possibly know where that money even goes.
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fireworks_god
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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: Icelander]
#5655824 - 05/21/06 10:40 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: It's not the 2% that will put you in Hell. It's giving it to the United Way.
I only started doing so, because there was some promotion within the company, and the store was striving to get 100% participation. 
I'm actually going to find some very obsure, irrelevant charity and start donating to that straight from my paycheck. Something concerning the plight of the whaling industry, or something... 
 Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: fireworks_god]
#5655905 - 05/21/06 11:10 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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very obsure, irrelevant charity
Save Icelander foundation.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Lakefingers

Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 6,440
Loc: mumuland
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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: Basilides]
#5655988 - 05/21/06 11:46 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Basilides said: I donate a bit of money to charity when I have some spare cash. I tend not to give out handouts on the street, instead I offer to buy homeless people a meal. It's always kind of ironic when they refuse the free meal. Other people have been very grateful, and would talk of matters of spirituality and religion and what not. Very interesting events, I say
Do you ask them if they're hungry first?
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fireworks_god
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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: Lakefingers]
#5655995 - 05/21/06 11:48 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Lakefingers said: Do you ask them if they're hungry first?
Do poor people have no concept of a doggie bag? 
If they don't feel like eating at the moment, a gift card can always be given instead. What is your point?
 Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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moog
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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: fireworks_god]
#5656009 - 05/21/06 11:54 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I think the point is, they're not necessarily always asking for money to buy food. The money may be used for something else that's needed.
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fireworks_god
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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: moog]
#5656076 - 05/21/06 12:18 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
moog said: I think the point is, they're not necessarily always asking for money to buy food. The money may be used for something else that's needed.
Alcohol or crack? 
Like I said, food, clothing, immediate transportation... basic, essential needs that need to be covered. If one isn't taking handouts for that, then what? I don't really see what else handouts are going to be able to support. Certainly not rent, doctor bills, etc.
 Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Silversoul
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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: porcupine]
#5656092 - 05/21/06 12:23 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I give my spare change to homeless people when they ask, but that's about it. As far as I'm concerned, I am poor.
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hot48yearolds
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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: fireworks_god]
#5656095 - 05/21/06 12:23 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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If alcahol and crack give them pleasure than they may be just as important as food is to us.
-------------------- "Truth is more in the process than in the result." - J. Krishnamurti "We ourselves are not an illusory part of Reality; rather are we Reality itself illusorily conceived." Wei Wu Wei
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: fireworks_god]
#5656108 - 05/21/06 12:26 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
I don't really see what else handouts are going to be able to support. Certainly not rent, doctor bills, etc.
You might be surprised. A local "homeless" (they live in a nice hotel) couple recently admitted to earning $300 per day panhandling. They have three kids & support their family by telling people that they lost their home, have no money, and were forced to move into a fleabag motel while they try to save enough to rent a house. They have been doing this for years.
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fireworks_god
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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: hot48yearolds]
#5656109 - 05/21/06 12:27 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
hot48yearolds said: If alcahol and crack give them pleasure than they may be just as important as food is to us.
Indeed, and yet importance is simply a self-inflated notion. The question of what is beneficial and sustaining is an entirely different one.
 Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: fireworks_god]
#5656113 - 05/21/06 12:28 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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We are not responsible for their pleasure or meeting their basic needs.
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fireworks_god
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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: Veritas]
#5656135 - 05/21/06 12:35 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Certainly. Life requires providing for one's existance, and it lessens our ability to life our own life if we must carry another on our back. Nature's solution to the problem should be our own, within reason. Obviously, we all need some help every once and awhile, but there is a marked difference between that and sustaining another's existance, which is why we shouldn't simply hand out money.
 Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: fireworks_god]
#5656146 - 05/21/06 12:38 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I'm saying that we are no more responsible to keep another human fed than we are to provide him with a portable DVD player and a bong.
If we choose to sustain his life, or increase his pleasure in being alive, we can do so with no strings attached, or with the idea that he should be grateful & only ask for what he needs to survive. The latter reason is just an ego trip.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: Veritas]
#5656157 - 05/21/06 12:41 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Well certainly. I am simply promoting a practical approach to giving others the energy that you have engaged yourself in earning, if one chooses to do so at all. 
 Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
Edited by fireworks_god (05/21/06 12:41 PM)
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: fireworks_god]
#5656178 - 05/21/06 12:45 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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No, you went beyond the practical when you attempted to qualify the difference between basic necessities and pleasure-promoting commodities.
If you are freely donating your energy, in the form of food or currency, it would not matter whether the donee flushed the food down the toilet or purchased drugs with the cash.
If you are giving money grudgingly, or out of a sense of moral superiority, it will matter what happens to your donation. You will desire control or authority over what has been given. That is the ego trip.
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moog
Stranger

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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: Veritas]
#5656219 - 05/21/06 12:53 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Yeah exactly. That's why i give without asking the person what it's needed for. It's really none of my business. I give out of principle. If you need something, and i can give it to you, then i'll give. I don't need to know the reason why. It could be for food, shelter, clothes, alcohol, crack cocaine, a new TV, a visit to a massage parlor, whatever.
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: moog]
#5656225 - 05/21/06 12:55 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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In your case, you are giving in exchange for the intrinsic reward of living according to your principles.
When someone gives with strings attached, they are exchanging their gift for the extrinsic reward of control and authority over another.
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fireworks_god
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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: Veritas]
#5656228 - 05/21/06 12:56 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said: No, you went beyond the practical when you attempted to qualify the difference between basic necessities and pleasure-promoting commodities.
Incorrect. It is one's conscious decision how one wishes to distribute one's energy. Thus, one maintains a sense of practicality in doing so. I do not understand how discerning the difference between a necessity for life and an endeavor which is an arbitrary want means that I went beyond the practical. 
Quote:
If you are freely donating your energy, in the form of food or currency, it would not matter whether the donee flushed the food down the toilet or purchased drugs with the cash.
Exactly. To me, and my life situation, freely donating my energy is not practical. If I were to assist another person with my energy, I would assess the situation and make a decision as to whether or not it would be worth my doing so.
Quote:
If you are giving money grudgingly, or out of a sense of moral superiority, it will matter what happens to your donation. You will desire control or authority over what has been given. That is the ego trip.
Nowhere has it been hinted that this is what I am referring to. Again, I fail to see how I have went beyond practicality with this. 
 Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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moog
Stranger

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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: Veritas]
#5656245 - 05/21/06 12:59 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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No, you misunderstand. i'm giving because they asked.
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: moog]
#5656249 - 05/21/06 01:00 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Yes, and you gave because you choose to live by that principle. You are rewarded within yourself, by yourself, when you make this choice.
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moog
Stranger

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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: Veritas]
#5656258 - 05/21/06 01:01 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Well it appears you know my motivations and mind better than myself, so what more can i say?
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: fireworks_god]
#5656271 - 05/21/06 01:05 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
If you are genuinely poor, a free meal and some clothes would be what you would need the most in the immediate moment, and that is what should be offered. If they need money for transportation, give them a bus pass. I remember someone saying once that they'll never give out money, but will more than gladly hook 'em up with stuff like what I mentioned.
If only people walked the streets handing poor people free alcohol and crack...
(emphasis added)
This is where you detoured from the practical into the imperative/moral advice. Saying that we should only offer basic necessities to those in need implies that we should not offer non-necessities, and those in need perhaps should not ask for help to attain these non-necessities.
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: moog]
#5656280 - 05/21/06 01:08 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I am not saying that I can read your mind, I am describing human psychology. We perform actions based upon perceived rewards. Actions which are never rewarded cease to be performed.
As you stated that your actions were based on principle, I said that your reward was the sense of living according to your principles.
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fireworks_god
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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: Veritas]
#5656305 - 05/21/06 01:14 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Perhaps you should have also emphasized the word if. 
If someone was genuinely poor, then they would not be able to provide for the basic necessities which they need to continue living their life. Yes, or no?
If so, then would you first give them some food, or a new watch?
"Should" was not employed in a moral sense, but a practical one. For example, if one has a gaping wound from which blood is pouring out, should one take steps to bandage it up and prevent any more blood loss, or should one spark up a cigarette?
 Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: fireworks_god]
#5656337 - 05/21/06 01:20 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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If you offer someone food, and they decline, and ask you for cash instead, should you impose your standards upon them?
If they do not want food, does this mean they are NOT genuinely poor, but employed in a scheme to defraud hard-working department store employees of part of their weekly paycheck?

Yes, of course being genuinely poor will mean that you cannot afford basic necessities. However, you could find someone who is poor, yet receiving food stamps or gleaning food, who desperately needs cash for non-food necessities.
My point was that people may ask for money for a variety of wants, as well as basic needs. If it is important to you that your donation be used for a specific purpose, then your reward involves control.
(And just so you know, I don't give food or money to beggars. I think they should get off their lazy asses and get a job, or accept the consequences of their choices. )
Edited by Veritas (05/21/06 01:24 PM)
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fireworks_god
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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: Veritas]
#5656371 - 05/21/06 01:26 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said: If you offer someone food, and they decline, and ask you for cash instead, should you impose your standards upon them?
It has nothing to do with imposing standards, and everything to do with making a personal choice as to how one wishes to expend one's energies if one chooses to do so.
Quote:
If they do not want food, does this mean they are NOT genuinely poor, but employed in a scheme to defraud hard-working department store employees of part of their weekly paycheck?
I am contemplating possible situations in which someone would be begging on the streets for money, but would have basic necessities covered. Can't really think of any.
Quote:
Yes, of course being genuinely poor will mean that you cannot afford basic necessities. However, you could find someone who is poor, yet receiving food stamps or gleaning food, who desperately needs cash for non-food necessities.
Such as... clothing? Transportation? A job application? 
 Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: fireworks_god]
#5656388 - 05/21/06 01:29 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Such as... clothing? Transportation? A job application?
Yes, clothing and transportation, plus shelter, medical care, toiletries. There are basic necessities besides food, you know.
A job application would be a great gift.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: Veritas]
#5656405 - 05/21/06 01:35 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said: Yes, clothing and transportation, plus shelter, medical care, toiletries. There are basic necessities besides food, you know.
I am aware of this, which is why I state that it preferable to offer these necessities themselves instead of simply money. I fully acknowledge that my list was not all-inclusive.
One thing that is to be kept in mind is that, if the person is to the point that they are in the streets, begging for charity of those who pass by in order to fufill some need or wish, then they are, most possibly, unable to properly conduct their life and their resources in a manner that would help them and their situation.
If one is truly interested in providing help, then one isn't going to simply toss money at their feet.
 Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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DoctorJ


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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: Veritas]
#5656408 - 05/21/06 01:37 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said: We perform actions based upon perceived rewards. Actions which are never rewarded cease to be performed.
As you stated that your actions were based on principle, I said that your reward was the sense of living according to your principles.
ultimately, you are wrong on this one. Big time.
"In matters of Style, swim with the current. In matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson.
We all must flex if we are to remain whole when pressure is applied to us.
But there must also be a very solid foundation for us to stand on. Though the beauty of the flow is necessary, without the strength of the rock we would crumble and fall.
And know this: No good deed goes unrewarded, and no bad deed goes unpunished.
Its all on tape, honey. For God and Everyone else to see. Choose your actions wisely, and follow your moral compass well. Otherwise, you will be judged by God, his Son, and the whole of humanity. God and his Son are pretty forgiving guys, but the whole of humanity can be quite a harsh judge that can unflinchingly hand out some very harsh sentences. Be warned, woman.
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: fireworks_god]
#5656409 - 05/21/06 01:37 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I say it is none of my business.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: fireworks_god]
#5656414 - 05/21/06 01:38 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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True. I am able to take care of myself. Please toss the money this way.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: Veritas]
#5656417 - 05/21/06 01:40 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I can respect that. Essentially, then, it is like putting a coin into a chance machine. Like, "here's an oppurtunity for you", and then reality unfolds some more. 
I love that cosmic, humorous sense of things... 
 Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: DoctorJ]
#5656420 - 05/21/06 01:41 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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You are entitled to your opinions.
However, if you wish to make a case that humans initiate and repeatedly perform actions without any type of reward, you would do well to provide some support for your claims.
I do not believe in a god or higher being who punishes humans for their indiscretions, so your warnings fall on deaf ears. It seems weak and petty to choose one's actions based upon supernatural threats of punishment.
As to the rest of humanity, they can judge all they want. The waste of life energy will be borne solely by the judgmental.
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DoctorJ


Registered: 06/30/03
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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: Veritas]
#5656432 - 05/21/06 01:48 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said: You are entitled to your opinions.
However, if you wish to make a case that humans perform actions without any type of reward, you would do well to provide some support for your claims.
Are you fucking kidding me? If I were an egotistical man, I would go off on all the things I have done for others without asking for or expecting a single fucking thing in return.
Instead I will point to the behavior of others like me as proof. Jesus died for your sins. Show a little respect. Thomas Jefferson built the foundation of this country with his own two hands, put his heart and soul into it, and died thinking himself a failure for not doing more. Mother Teresa spent her entire life ministering to the sick in absolute poverty and filth. People all around you are selfless without expectation. Truly, these are God's people. For God is selfless without expectation.
Quote:
I do not believe in a god or higher being who punishes humans for their indiscretions, so your warnings fall on deaf ears. It seems weak and petty to choose one's actions based upon supernatural threats of punishment.
you're a fool then. I'd suggest you catch up on your reading, honey. Science is very far from everything.
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: fireworks_god]
#5656434 - 05/21/06 01:49 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
fireworks_god said: I can respect that. Essentially, then, it is like putting a coin into a chance machine. Like, "here's an oppurtunity for you", and then reality unfolds some more. 
I love that cosmic, humorous sense of things... 
As it says on the lottery tickets: should be played for entertainment purposes only.
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: DoctorJ]
#5656447 - 05/21/06 01:53 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Many perform so-called selfless acts because they receive intrinsic rewards.
Quote:
Intrinsically enjoyable activities are things like eating, resting, laughing, playing games, winning, creating, seeing and hearing beautiful things and people, being held lovingly, having sex, and so on.
To do these things we don't need to be paid, applauded, cheered, thanked, respected, or anything--commonly we do them for the good feelings we automatically and naturally get from the activity.
Intrinsic rewards also involve pleasurable internal feelings or thoughts, like feeling proud or having a sense of mastery following studying hard and succeeding in a class.
Others desire non-direct, extrinsic rewards for their selflessness, such as the love and approval of others. Whatever the exchange may be, there is always a reward involved.
I am familiar with the texts and tenets of the major world religions. I'm not impressed. Science is one method of exploring our reality, and (when used with flexibility and absence of dogma) is far more useful than faith.
Edited by Veritas (05/21/06 01:58 PM)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: Veritas]
#5656457 - 05/21/06 01:56 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Hardheaded coldly rational science types. You're going to hell.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: Icelander]
#5656465 - 05/21/06 01:58 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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At least I'll have interesting company.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: DoctorJ]
#5656469 - 05/21/06 02:00 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
DoctorJ said: Are you fucking kidding me? If I were an egotistical man, I would go off and point to the behavior of others like me as proof.
 Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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DoctorJ


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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: Veritas]
#5656477 - 05/21/06 02:03 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said: At least I'll have interesting company.
that's really funny. I happen to know for a fact that God has several cameras on you right now. The Illuminati might have a few as well.
if I were you, I'd check your house for bugs
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fireworks_god
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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: DoctorJ]
#5656482 - 05/21/06 02:04 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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God needs cameras, huh? 
I certainly am glad that people like you died for my sins, how thoughtful of you, I mean, them. 
 Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: DoctorJ]
#5656483 - 05/21/06 02:05 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Actually, I believe that the Easter Bunny is responsible for the wiretap on my phone. God set up the nanny-cam, and Buddha planted the microscopic recording devices in my bedroom.
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Icelander
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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: Veritas]
#5656487 - 05/21/06 02:06 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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At least I'll have interesting company.
You mean Pamela Anderson?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
Edited by Icelander (05/21/06 02:08 PM)
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: Icelander]
#5656494 - 05/21/06 02:08 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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No, she'll be in Heaven serving angel food cake to the televangelists.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: Icelander]
#5656496 - 05/21/06 02:08 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: You mean Pamela Anderson?
The reincarnation of Mother Theresa!
The more selfless, good deeds you perform, the bigger your breasts are next time around. 
 Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: fireworks_god]
#5656502 - 05/21/06 02:09 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Also known as the Third Law of Mammary Karma. 
I must have been a saint in my last life...
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DoctorJ


Registered: 06/30/03
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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: Veritas]
#5656506 - 05/21/06 02:11 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
I am familiar with the texts and tenets of the major world religions. I'm not impressed. Science is one method of exploring our reality, and (when used with flexibility and absence of dogma) is far more useful than faith.
Science is one method of exploring and conquering THIS reality. Which is why I love science. Believe me, I benefit from science everyday, I'm not a fuckin Luddite.
But faith, my friend, is the meaning of life. You must believe, even when the chips are down. If you believe in nothing, nothing will believe in you. Read any good Niezche lately? 
DON'T PANIC!
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DoctorJ


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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: Veritas]
#5656507 - 05/21/06 02:12 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said:

Actually, I believe that the Easter Bunny is responsible for the wiretap on my phone. God set up the nanny-cam, and Buddha planted the microscopic recording devices in my bedroom.
Yeah, but Jesus leaves you alone because he just doesn't give a fuck!
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fireworks_god
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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: DoctorJ]
#5656509 - 05/21/06 02:13 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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The fact that you are teeter-tottering on making absolutely no sense means that we shouldn't panic? I dunno about that...
 Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: DoctorJ]
#5656516 - 05/21/06 02:17 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Faith may be the meaning of life for you, but meaningless for me. Let us avoid imposing our beliefs upon one another, shall we?
You are free to practice your religion in peace, as I am free to abstain from such practices.
(Nietsche doesn't do it for me, either. )
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DoctorJ


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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: Veritas]
#5656527 - 05/21/06 02:19 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I'm not trying to impose anything on you, sweetheart.
I'm just worried about ya.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: DoctorJ]
#5656535 - 05/21/06 02:20 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: DoctorJ]
#5656536 - 05/21/06 02:20 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I'm doing just fine. Religion is not my path. I prefer to eliminate the dogma and the power-hungry middlemen (ministers, priests, etc...) and seek direct energetic communion with Life and Love.
Try it sometime...you might like it.
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DoctorJ


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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: Veritas]
#5656548 - 05/21/06 02:24 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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life and love are two very different things, my dear.
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: DoctorJ]
#5656556 - 05/21/06 02:27 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Not at their essence.
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DoctorJ


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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: Veritas]
#5656578 - 05/21/06 02:34 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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OK. If that is what you want to believe. Love does not HAVE to be life. It chooses to be life for the sake of life. When life is forsaken, love moves on to bigger and better things.
but when someone throws you a rope, don't use it to hang yourself. Use it to climb up. Thats really all I ask.
I get real tired of watching people hang themselves. It makes me want to be the monk in my avatar.
And believe me honey, hell is not a place you wanna get stuck in, for any length of time. I know because I've been there and back.
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: DoctorJ]
#5656583 - 05/21/06 02:37 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I've no intention of hanging myself, and I believe that Hell is something we create for ourselves (or not) right here on Earth.
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DoctorJ


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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: Veritas]
#5656593 - 05/21/06 02:39 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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in many ways hell is a state of mind
but you must realize that all states of mind come from somewhere.
there is a hell complete with demons, red sand, fire and brimstone. I've seen it. There are also Hells vastly more twisted and painful than the traditional hell defined in the bible.
"How can you make a telephone call if you have no mouth, Mr Anderson?"
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PhanTomCat
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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: DoctorJ]
#5657039 - 05/21/06 04:31 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
DoctorJ said: I get real tired of watching people hang themselves. It makes me want to be the monk in my avatar.
Sooooooooooo, let me get this right.... You are so tired of watching people hang themselves to death that you want to burn yourself to death....? 

I like your posts man, you are a funny doooood....! 
>^;;^<
-------------------- I'll be your midnight French Fry.... "The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...." >^;;^<
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: DoctorJ]
#5657098 - 05/21/06 04:43 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
there is a hell complete with demons, red sand, fire and brimstone. I've seen it.
So you have died, gone to Hell, and come back again? If you have seen it in this lifetime, then it was in your mind.
States of mind come from somewhere? Certainly they do...from our consciousness. We can direct our consciousness towards Hell (through negativity, bigotry, judgment, hatred, deliberate ignorance, cruelty) or Heaven (through positivity, compassion, love, cultivating wisdom, kindness, self-awareness, responsibility.)
We choose a direction each moment we are alive.
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DoctorJ


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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: Veritas]
#5657185 - 05/21/06 05:05 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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sometimes we choose, but other times our circumstances choose for us.
I'm afraid that even God is sometimes a victim of circumstance.
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: DoctorJ]
#5657195 - 05/21/06 05:08 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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If God exists, doesn't he create all the circumstances?
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DoctorJ


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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: Veritas]
#5657206 - 05/21/06 05:10 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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yes and no.
sometimes God tests his own faith by depriving himself of power and seeing if he can withstand the struggles of the common man.
like I said, SOMETIMES God is the victim of circumstance. Ultimately, he is no one's victim.
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: DoctorJ]
#5657210 - 05/21/06 05:11 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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"Just a stranger on a bus, tryin' to make his way home." 
Why would God need to have faith? Isn't that rather like me having faith that I exist?
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DoctorJ


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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: Veritas]
#5657214 - 05/21/06 05:12 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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remember, God worships you. He has faith in EVERYTHING.
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: DoctorJ]
#5657229 - 05/21/06 05:16 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Of course God worships me...I am FABULOUS!
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder


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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: fireworks_god]
#5657330 - 05/21/06 05:36 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Well, I've gone from $5 on my bi-weekly checks to $2, like you. I'm uncertain what the United Way actually does with the money and I've been giving for 20 years! For a while I gave $100 bucks a year, then $40. But I have also supported various animal rights groups and the Save Tibet program (although I believe that cause is futile. The Chinese have transformed Tibet with access by a modern elevated train. Modern maps and globes in schools no longer even say Tibet. Their culture has gone into a diaspora like the ancient Hebrews).
I don't think this will send me to Hell, however. Miami homeless are organized, wear t-shirts, live together in group homes, collect at intersections, and they all seem more able-bodied than I am (no blind or limbless beggars). When I was in Lagos, Nigeria, my Lady's cousin pointed out a beggar who had been on the same corner for 22 years. Apparently, he was building a large house in the back country. Begging seems to be an occupation. Unfortunately, children are mangled and deformed in India to the end of reaping greater pity and more rupees through the practice. Fookin' evil if you ask me.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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DoctorJ


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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: Veritas]
#5657390 - 05/21/06 05:59 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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also, don't confuse the work of God with the work of his brigtest students, capiche? 
God invented one thing: Spirit.
The rest was the creation of God's servants. Sometimes God's servants do a good job, and sometimes they don't. But God's best students always aim to please.
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: DoctorJ]
#5657396 - 05/21/06 06:01 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Hmmm...sounds a little too much like Santa and his elves.
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DoctorJ


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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: Veritas]
#5657408 - 05/21/06 06:04 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: DoctorJ]
#5657416 - 05/21/06 06:08 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Shouldn't that be "ho ho ho" instead of "lol"?
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DoctorJ


Registered: 06/30/03
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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: Veritas]
#5657433 - 05/21/06 06:14 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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how bout: 'loyal girlfriend ho ho' That would be nice.
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: DoctorJ]
#5657436 - 05/21/06 06:16 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Hey, you picked 'em.
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PhanTomCat
Teh Cat....


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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: DoctorJ]
#5658094 - 05/21/06 09:12 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
DoctorJ said: also, don't confuse the work of God with the work of his brigtest students, capiche?
So, who exactly was God's brigtest students....? 
>^;;^<
-------------------- I'll be your midnight French Fry.... "The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...." >^;;^<
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DoctorJ


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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: PhanTomCat]
#5658106 - 05/21/06 09:15 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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the Bright and Shining One
duh
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: DoctorJ]
#5658116 - 05/21/06 09:17 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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pssst...Lucifer.
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DoctorJ


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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: Veritas]
#5658129 - 05/21/06 09:21 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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the scam of eternity is that God And Lucifer are two sides of the same coin. Lucifer is a goat alright. A scapegoat. He exists to do the things that God can't get caught doing.
Jesus turned this into a big joke. Its called The Cosmic Joke.
Wanna hear the punchline?
Everything you hate is just as much a part of you as everything you love.

that one always cracks me up
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PhanTomCat
Teh Cat....


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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: DoctorJ]
#5658137 - 05/21/06 09:24 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
DoctorJ said: the Bright and Shining One
duh
......?

>^;;^<
-------------------- I'll be your midnight French Fry.... "The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...." >^;;^<
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: DoctorJ]
#5658142 - 05/21/06 09:25 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Before it was called the Cosmic Joke, some wise fools called it Tao.
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PhanTomCat
Teh Cat....


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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: Veritas]
#5658156 - 05/21/06 09:29 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said: wise fools
Cleverly poetic, in the context....! 
>^;;^<
-------------------- I'll be your midnight French Fry.... "The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...." >^;;^<
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DoctorJ


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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: Veritas]
#5658178 - 05/21/06 09:36 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said: Before it was called the Cosmic Joke, some wise fools called it Tao.
yes they did 
my one true religion
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: DoctorJ]
#5658201 - 05/21/06 09:39 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Do you practice the religion or the philosophy? Lao-tzu did not call it a religion. (The adaptation came later, when some needed a spoonful of dogma and ritual to make the Tao go down. )
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DoctorJ


Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: Veritas]
#5658220 - 05/21/06 09:44 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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no, I practice the philosophy. But it is a religion if you make it one, and I do so occaisionally. I mean, I believe things I can't prove to others that are based on the philosophical ramifications of the Tao.
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David_vs_Goliath
Informer


Registered: 04/01/06
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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: DoctorJ]
#5658901 - 05/22/06 12:35 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Getting back to the topic of poverty.
Just some food for thought. Being one of the richest industrialized nations in the world (if not the richest, I'm not sure) we give the least amount per capita of any of the wealty countries of the world. 0.15% of our income. This means out of every thousand dolars we give 1.50$ Imagine if every human in the United States gave 1 penny of every dollar they made. This would make an unbelievable difference.
As for my answer to the question. I usualy give a dollar or two and whatever change I have on me. But, I think the real way I try to make a difference is to think before I purchase things. If I really want to buy a pack of cigerets or some fast food I will stop and just dog-ear the money I would have spent. When I get home I put that money away and figure I would have spent it anyways. I a saving up so one day I can start my own organization.
-------------------- "People living deeply have no fear of death." "Love the animals, love the plants, love everything. If you love everything, you will perceive the divine mystery in things. Once you perceive it, you will begin to comprehend it better every day. And you will come at last to love the whole world with an all-embracing love." "Our problems are man-made, therefore they may be solved by man. No problem of human destiny is beyond human beings."
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
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Loc: Pandurn
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Re: do you give to the poor and if so how much? [Re: David_vs_Goliath]
#5659329 - 05/22/06 07:11 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
David_vs_Goliath said: Being one of the richest industrialized nations in the world (if not the richest, I'm not sure) we give the least amount per capita of any of the wealty countries of the world. 0.15% of our income. This means out of every thousand dolars we give 1.50$
Yes! I am above the statistical average! I am more giving than those losers who give less. 
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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