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Offlinecubensisfrenzy55
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preventing hollow stems
    #5647797 - 05/18/06 09:13 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I just harvested my first couple BRF cakes of B+ and to my dismay found that they had hollow stems. Is this just because I'm unlucky or is there something I can do to prevent this. I won't be doing cakes after these are done. I am doing casings with 50/50 peat and verm. Will this help? Is B+ known for hollow stems? thanks for any help.


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InvisibleDarkenshroom
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Re: preventing hollow stems [Re: cubensisfrenzy55]
    #5647809 - 05/18/06 09:16 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Some strains have meaty stems some have hollows, I would suggest PE, PE6, or Texans offhand as meaty stemmed strains.

Darken
*smiles*


--------------------
~The first and most important step in cultivation of the wonderful mushroom, is the cultivation of patience for without it you doom yourself to failure~


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Offlinecubensisfrenzy55
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Re: preventing hollow stems [Re: Darkenshroom]
    #5647843 - 05/18/06 09:22 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

cool, I have texas that is almost done colonizing.


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Offlinecubensisfrenzy55
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Re: preventing hollow stems [Re: cubensisfrenzy55]
    #5647847 - 05/18/06 09:22 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

what is pe?


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Anonymous

Post deleted by Anno [Re: cubensisfrenzy55]
    #5647854 - 05/18/06 09:25 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)



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Offlinecubensisfrenzy55
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Re: preventing hollow stems [Re: ]
    #5647876 - 05/18/06 09:30 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

gotcha, thanks


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Invisiblecreamcorn
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Re: preventing hollow stems [Re: cubensisfrenzy55]
    #5649771 - 05/19/06 11:17 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Well I'm not going to pass this off as "fact" so take with a grain of salt. First off everyone is correct that certain strains are more likely to produce meatier stems than others. That aside, I've got a hunch it also has to do with temperature.

TMC alludes to this, stating that higher temps leads to faster fruitbody development, but lesser overall yield. Unfortunately there's no more elaboration on that which kind of annoys me!

I've also noticed that comparing room temperature grows (68F) to slightly warmed grows (75F) does show a big difference in the speed they grow of course, but the cooler fruiting temp ones also seem to be meatier. It makes intuitive sense, that if they're going real fast and shooting up, there isn't as much time to build mass within the stem, whereas in lower temps its more of a slow-but-steady growth where the stems have more weight to them, and they weigh a lot more when dried and seem to shrink less than their warmer grown counterparts.

This is just anecdotal and an observation like I said, so take it as you will. However if your setup allows for you to lower the temp a little bit, you might want to give it a shot and see for yourself.


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Offlinehyphae
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Re: preventing hollow stems [Re: creamcorn]
    #5649813 - 05/19/06 11:31 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I have seen most all BRF fruits have hollow stems. I too believe the speed of grow has something to do with it also IME. This would be a valuable experiment when done with two separate groups (68-72F and 76-80F) both grown on BRF. Any takers? creamcorn? :wink:


--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
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InvisibleCham
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Re: preventing hollow stems [Re: hyphae]
    #5649830 - 05/19/06 11:36 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I can add to the "BRF = Hollow Stems" theory, as about 2/3rds my harvest from BRF PF Cakes were hollow as hollow can get. Dried they look like UFO's with a string attached to them.


--------------------
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Offlinecubensisfrenzy55
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Re: preventing hollow stems [Re: Cham]
    #5649873 - 05/19/06 11:51 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

yup thats what mine are. Good looking mushies when I picked them. Thought I would have a decent yeild and then they shriveled to nothing. Does anyone have the same problem with rye grain? or WBS? I am contimplating using one of those mediums for my next grows. Also can you case grains in 50/50 peat and verm. mix? I haven't done alot of research on other mediums other than BRF cakes but I think it is about time. Thanks for all the help.


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Offlinecubensisfrenzy55
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Re: preventing hollow stems [Re: cubensisfrenzy55]
    #5649883 - 05/19/06 11:53 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

one more question. I have ordered pf classic, golden teacher, lipa yai and Z strain and have texas and tasmanian colonizing right now. Can anyone relay their experiences on these strains regarding hollow stems. I know texas is pretty meaty but i'm just wondering about the rest.
thanks


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Re: preventing hollow stems [Re: cubensisfrenzy55]
    #5649901 - 05/19/06 11:59 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

ive read somewhere here that hollow stems can be strain related and that more fresh air exchange can also aid in having solid stems  :smirk:  ive had some hollow and solid from the same batch so maybe there is something to the air exchange...


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Offlinecubensisfrenzy55
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Re: preventing hollow stems [Re: CaptainKirk]
    #5649919 - 05/19/06 12:03 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I air it out probably three to five times a day. My temps are up a little. 82-86, good for colonizing. getting a heat wave in my parts right now.


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Invisiblecreamcorn
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Re: preventing hollow stems [Re: hyphae]
    #5649931 - 05/19/06 12:06 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

hyphae said:
I have seen most all BRF fruits have hollow stems. I too believe the speed of grow has something to do with it also IME. This would be a valuable experiment when done with two separate groups (68-72F and 76-80F) both grown on BRF. Any takers? creamcorn? :wink:




Sure why not.  :smile:  I'll fire off some quick cakes from clone LC so I can compare apples to apples and I'll let ya'll know how it turns out in a few weeks.


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OfflineNuclear_Shroom
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Re: preventing hollow stems [Re: creamcorn]
    #5650179 - 05/19/06 01:12 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Like the others say, its just the strain, some are hollow and some are meaty. I like using PESA and Aussie! they grow well and produce nice size meaty fruits! but hey, just experiment and see what u like best!!!


--------------------
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Re: preventing hollow stems [Re: Nuclear_Shroom]
    #5650412 - 05/19/06 02:01 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

ive never had hollow stems or nothing extream at least and i fruit in the upper 60's. this leads me to belive there is some truth to your theory. i have and experiment cake that will be harvested probably tomorrow and then well see it it too has solid stems. seem solid to the touch as i just gave em a poke.


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InvisibleRoadkillM
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Re: preventing hollow stems [Re: creamcorn]
    #5650499 - 05/19/06 02:27 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

my normal grow room temps all year round is 73 to 76 degrees F.


then I grow a few Double tubs and some small Terrarium's upstairs...
and the heat upstairs gets into the 80's and 90's.
And I have never noticed thin non meaty stems from the higher heat.


so there is probably something else causing this.


Or I have magic strains of Cubensis!~

:smirk:


tc


--------------------
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Who the hell you callin crazy?
You wouldn't know what crazy was if Charles Manson was eating froot loops on your front porch!


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PM the names with on there names, that means they have mushrooms for sale.



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Invisiblecreamcorn
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Re: preventing hollow stems [Re: Roadkill]
    #5650572 - 05/19/06 02:52 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

but i'm guessing you don't grow on BRF?

perhaps superior substrate = doesnt matter the fruiting temp because the nutes are really accessible

inferior substrate = benefits from lower temp because the nutes are harder to digest and it takes more time to do so?

i'll see what happens either way, i've already got two room temp FCs and one that's heated so its no real effort on my part to find out what happens with a clone and some brf :wink:


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InvisibleRoadkillM
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Re: preventing hollow stems [Re: creamcorn]
    #5650584 - 05/19/06 02:59 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

creamcorn said:
but i'm guessing you don't grow on BRF?

perhaps superior substrate = doesnt matter the fruiting temp because the nutes are really accessible

inferior substrate = benefits from lower temp because the nutes are harder to digest and it takes more time to do so?

i'll see what happens either way, i've already got two room temp FCs and one that's heated so its no real effort on my part to find out what happens with a clone and some brf :wink:




I actually do grow some pf tek cakes from time to time...
when I'm testing new strains.
I wanna make sure that the new strain will grow good on all types of substrate.

so yes some were brf/verm cakes that grew in 80 to 90 degree F. weather.
and they didn't have hollow stems.


tc


--------------------
Laterz, Road

Who the hell you callin crazy?
You wouldn't know what crazy was if Charles Manson was eating froot loops on your front porch!


Brainiac said:
PM the names with on there names, that means they have mushrooms for sale.



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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: preventing hollow stems [Re: cubensisfrenzy55]
    #5650585 - 05/19/06 02:59 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

humidity...try keeping it around 89% while still allowing a good amount of FAE. Then see how it goes. When people do cakes, they're always told to keep the humidity as high as possible. Try a lower steady humidity level and see what happens.


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Offlinehyphae
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Re: preventing hollow stems [Re: Nuclear_Shroom]
    #5650640 - 05/19/06 03:27 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Hollow stems are not strain related IME thus far, not at all. Road are you sure your BRF's were nice and meaty, I'm not questioning your memory it's just this has been consistent IME. I pretty much summed it up to the BRF not being a whole grain with nutes much easier to access and a higher initial starch availability.


--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"


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Re: preventing hollow stems [Re: demiu5]
    #5650641 - 05/19/06 03:28 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

It hasnt been mentioned, but I read somwhere (forget the actual scientific definition) that any sporeprint could have any amount of defrientating off spring, perhaps asides the most probable explanation's thus far, it could just be a result of random spore tendancies...? Unless I've mis conscrewed somthing along the way about isolating preferable basio's for clones?


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Re: preventing hollow stems [Re: WIZOLZ]
    #5650716 - 05/19/06 03:47 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

yeah i think we might have different ideas of what we consider a "hollow" stem.  i mean even my worst brf ones aren't like a drinking straw or anything.  if you cut the caps off when printing you do see a bit of a hole down the middle though.  so there's different amounts of "hollowness" that can happen... they all feel meaty and thick when they're wet so if you go by that i can say the same that none of mine are really hollow, but it becomes more evident when you dry them i think, sometimes a stem shrivels up to the size of a toothpick, other times it only shrivels up a little bit.

so my plan is to do it both ways, then take specimens that appear to be the same physical size as close as absolutely possible and compare them side by side... so its more or less dealing with density, compare their initial wet weights, and again when dry, and hope to come up with a conclusion that way :thumbup:

and yeah starting from spores you always get a mixed bag of genetics in your fruits, who knows how many strains you got going on at once, also why ill use the same isolate across the board to take that out of the picture.  two identical fc's side by side, treat them equally throughout, one with a low wattage reptile heating pad to bring it up to mid-high 70's and the other at room temp.  maybe there will be a difference, maybe not, only one way to find out.  the worst thing that can possibly happen is i end up with a bunch of extra shrooms (the horror!!) :smile:


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Offlinecubensisfrenzy55
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Re: preventing hollow stems [Re: creamcorn]
    #5650751 - 05/19/06 03:57 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

alright, I'm going to try and eliminate a few of your theories and or facts that you have identified as problems. I just went out and got most of the supplies for WBS. I will try and lower the temps to mid 70s, though I don't know how, I have no AC and it is in the 80s and 90s. I am going to have seven different strains so I can choose the best and I will focus on keeping fresh air in my fruiting chamber. Just my luck though I will still have all hollow stems. Thanks for all the feedback, I didn't think this thread would get this big. Thanks


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Re: preventing hollow stems [Re: cubensisfrenzy55]
    #5839748 - 07/09/06 05:57 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

hey guys, has anyone had anymore luck figuring out these friggin hollow stems? man they are really starting to piss me off at the dried weight situation.


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OfflineCapless
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Re: preventing hollow stems [Re: rye]
    #5840339 - 07/09/06 09:03 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

edit*


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Embrace this moment. Remember, We are eternal.
all this pain is an illusion...."


Edited by Capless (07/09/06 10:06 PM)


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Offlineiamyour_messiah
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Re: preventing hollow stems [Re: Capless]
    #5841632 - 07/10/06 08:04 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I personally think it's not strain related... or neccesarily substrate related. The fruits I have been getting off a straw casing spawned with rye have been quite plentiful (even those of the third flush made me smile) but hollow stems on all of them. The strin is PESA, one which Nuclear_Shrooms said earlier on gave him nice meaty fruits.

My fruiting temps have also been higher than optimal all this time due to a heat wave over here (like 30 degrees C outside every day...making it about 26 degrees inside :S ). I also fan my shrooms manually in a terrarium and although I try to do this like 5 times a day it's probably still less than optimal since its not constantly being exchanged.

My guess therefore would be that it has to do with fruiting temps and FAE...


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OfflineGreen Goddess
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Re: preventing hollow stems [Re: creamcorn]
    #15274571 - 10/25/11 01:49 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

This is an old thread , but I was just curious about the outcome of the experiment . Is there any difference in fruits fruited with lower temp then higher temp?
It seems like there is no defined conclusion reached.


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Re: preventing hollow stems [Re: Green Goddess]
    #15274770 - 10/25/11 04:29 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Based on the last seen date of all the people in this thread from ~5 years ago my guess is you wont get an answer. However! I feel that hollow stems are more prominent in sub-straight that has less nuts/older. Hpoo seems to produce solid stems for me for the first few flushes then as the sub gets old the stems have less meat to them. Also and probably more important then any other factors would be genetics.


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OfflineGreen Goddess
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Re: preventing hollow stems [Re: PinsWellWithOthers]
    #15278991 - 10/25/11 10:51 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Hmmmm. Very interesting... I agree with you on that, the older the substrate the more hollow the stems. But in my experience I have also noticed this (same condition, same strain): Completely colonized bag of rye and  bulked substrate (composted cow and coco coir + gypsum) and cased 50/50. Rye had more solid stems, then did the cased sub. (Although the cased sub had greater yield) . Now I want to find out what factors can effect the hollowness of the mush so that i can increase the yield. From what I understand from reading this post, one of them is temperature. The other one from my personal experience is perhaps also nutrient density.


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Re: preventing hollow stems [Re: Green Goddess]
    #15279655 - 10/26/11 03:09 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

It would be nice to be able to pin down exactly what nutrients cause meaty fruits. Maybe its is N as it seems Hpoo and CowPoo are more prone to meaty fruits then straight coir. I'm not saying it is but it would be something worth testing. And if a test would be done it should be done w/ a N supplement that is about to be broken down by the myco like chicken manure instead of dried blood meal. You know what i mean?


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Invisibleslapphappypill
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Re: preventing hollow stems [Re: creamcorn]
    #15279879 - 10/26/11 06:35 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

creamcorn said:
Well I'm not going to pass this off as "fact" so take with a grain of salt.  First off everyone is correct that certain strains are more likely to produce meatier stems than others.  That aside, I've got a hunch it also has to do with temperature.

TMC alludes to this, stating that higher temps leads to faster fruitbody development, but lesser overall yield.  Unfortunately there's no more elaboration on that which kind of annoys me!

I've also noticed that comparing room temperature grows (68F) to slightly warmed grows (75F) does show a big difference in the speed they grow of course, but the cooler fruiting temp ones also seem to be meatier.  It makes intuitive sense, that if they're going real fast and shooting up, there isn't as much time to build mass within the stem, whereas in lower temps its more of a slow-but-steady growth where the stems have more weight to them, and they weigh a lot more when dried and seem to shrink less than their warmer grown counterparts.

This is just anecdotal and an observation like I said, so take it as you will.  However if your setup allows for you to lower the temp a little bit, you might want to give it a shot and see for yourself.





From exp, fruiting even in 60 degree weather can give you hallow steps. Hollow stems are genetics. and when dealing with cubes, that shit is random anyway.

You can strain isolate down to just meaty fruit if you want, otherwise just enjoy the fruits that grow. I've had perfectly dense 9 gram dry fruits about 1.5 ft tall, and I've had the same size in the same tub be insanely hollow and weigh in at under 3 grams. Mind you this is in the same monotub, and harvested on same flush from same cluster even.

Just my 2 cents

-SHP


--------------------
We think we have freedom, but we're all just mice in a maze....

                   

FYI: I stole all my pix off google! F+ PORN! Here is a shit-ton of porn by yours truly!

I have FINALLY written up a couple teks as to how SHP has done things in the past. DISCLAIMER: This is not for the newbie to mycology, and not going to work for everyone! This is simply what works for one person when other teks and methods have failed miserably!
~~~~~How SHP does their unconventional WBS Prep!! (NO DRY METHOD)~~~~
~~~~~SHP's highly disputed method of doing ALL their work outside of a flow hood or a Still air box!~~~~~
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