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ilus
Bred in Captivity


Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 3,152
Loc: Around the bend.
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Chronic Fatigue
#5647328 - 05/18/06 06:41 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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So, I have horrible fatigue problems. I can sleep 14+ hours and still wake up and be tired. 8 hours leaves me way tired or anytime I wake up. I've gone to the doctor in the past who checked my thyroid and basically came to the conclusion of "just be healthy" or "I can put you on low-dose SSRI's". I really don't want to try any anti-depressants. I get plenty of exercize (rock climbing), and try to eat relatively healthy. I thought my diet was the problem at first, but I definetly don't eat nearly as bad as most people I know. I've tried supplements and things like melatonin to try to help me get to sleep at night - but I can't fall to sleep at a reasonable hour, so I have sort of reverted to going to bed around 4am-ish and waking up around 4pm-ish. This works since I don't have to be to work around 4:30 anyway. The other thing would be drug use... I've tried pretty much everything there is to try, but I try to space things out pretty well when I do them and I don't do anything on a regular basis (except sometimes smoke - but even that isn't daily).
Anyway, just wanted to kind of organize my thoughts on this and see if anyone here had any suggestions as to help with this or suggestions to ask a doctor or anything really?
-------------------- Message me for Mushroom Tinctures Lion's Mane, Reishi, Turkey Tail, Chaga, Shiitake / Extracts / CBD Isolate, Oil ---- My Art, Design, Sculpture & Music: http://www.conceptflow.org
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DoctorJ


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Re: Chronic Fatigue [Re: ilus]
#5647411 - 05/18/06 07:08 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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stop getting your ass kicked in dreams
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eligal
Noobie


Registered: 05/25/05
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Re: Chronic Fatigue [Re: ilus]
#5648338 - 05/18/06 11:03 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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sometimes our body gets used to sleeping longer than it should. force yourselve to only sleep 8 hours. and dont take naps inbetween! just force yourself to stay away. with good nutrition, some excercise, and keeping the pattern, your body should get used to only 8 hours sleep.
if not take some E.
-------------------- \m/ Spanksta \m/ "do you have the freedom to do with your nervous system what you want?" "MolokoMilkPlus said: I'll respect you if you let me give you a blow job" "tactik said: respect the can."
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moog
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Re: Chronic Fatigue [Re: ilus]
#5648526 - 05/18/06 11:59 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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You're probably sleeping too long. If your life situation permits it, try sleeping 2-3 times a day for 2-3 hours at a time. Just sleep like this whenever you're tired. If you're not tired, don't force yourself to sleep. After a few days of this you'll notice a big increase in energy.
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zorbman
blarrr


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Re: Chronic Fatigue [Re: ilus]
#5649709 - 05/19/06 10:54 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Dr. David Brownstein specializes in treating thyroids and has found that 80% of people (95% in his region of Michigan) were deficient in iodine measured by a urine test even though they tested fine with the standard test. Iodine is needed by the thyroid to produce thyroid hormone which regulates metabolism.
Seems the RDA of iodine is just barely enough to prevent goiter (a swelling of the thyroid common before iodine was added to salt) but not enough to have a fully functioning thyroid. And due to modern food processing methods iodine is deficient in the typical American diet. Brownstein typically supplements his patients with iodine and their energy picks up.
You can find more info here:
http://www.jcrows.com/iodine.html
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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ilus
Bred in Captivity


Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 3,152
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Re: Chronic Fatigue [Re: zorbman]
#5650047 - 05/19/06 12:35 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Suprisingly enough, that is what my dad recommended too... The thing about the iodine is that it seems more like a scam to me - every place that says that is selling their overpriced product. I don't really know what to think about that.
Thanks for the advice so far!
-------------------- Message me for Mushroom Tinctures Lion's Mane, Reishi, Turkey Tail, Chaga, Shiitake / Extracts / CBD Isolate, Oil ---- My Art, Design, Sculpture & Music: http://www.conceptflow.org
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zorbman
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Re: Chronic Fatigue [Re: ilus]
#5650849 - 05/19/06 04:28 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I've been researching iodine for several weeks now and most sites I've visited were not selling iodine. Iodine is a legit health concern when you consider that iodine levels have fallen 50% in the last thirty years.
I know what you mean about scams though. A family member has cancer and in researching treatment options I found more than a few and can smell them a mile away.
Anyway, I have similar symptoms as you described and ordered some which arrived a couple days ago. It was for under 10$. Seems like a reasonable price for solving a major health issue. I'll let you know if it works for me. Good luck.
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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ilus
Bred in Captivity


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Posts: 3,152
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Re: Chronic Fatigue [Re: zorbman]
#5650894 - 05/19/06 04:43 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Yup, I actually have some "Iosol" at home which my dad ordered. Marketed as "water soulable iodine". I tried it a few times (not daily except for a week), and seemed to find it a pain in the ass with mild effects possibly placebo. I was told it takes a while on a regular basis to start getting normal again. Since your the second person to say it maybe I'll try it again on a daily basis for a month or something and see how it turns out. Thanks for the advice so far!
BTW, woke up naturally after like 6-8 hours today and have been pretty rested. I like it when this happens - if only it was always like this!
-------------------- Message me for Mushroom Tinctures Lion's Mane, Reishi, Turkey Tail, Chaga, Shiitake / Extracts / CBD Isolate, Oil ---- My Art, Design, Sculpture & Music: http://www.conceptflow.org
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zorbman
blarrr


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Re: Chronic Fatigue [Re: ilus]
#5651239 - 05/19/06 06:38 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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That sounds like what I have- it is 10% Potassium Iodide and 5% iodine. If memory serves the thyroid prefers it in the form of iodide and the rest of the body prefers the other.
How have you been taking it? Internally or skin contact?
Have you been on antibiotics recently?
I also have similar problems with my sleeping patterns as you. Although my fatigue has improved notably since I improved my diet with more of an emphasis on green veggies and fruit.
But for the last couple of years I'd wake up and never really get going..Id lay around for hours before my energy would pick up. When it finally did it was like 10pm or so and Id never be tired for bed even though I exercise. I began to accept this as normal. I still have those days, but they are fewer and farther between. Hopefully the iodine will give my thyroid the raw material it needs to do its job.
I have more info on iodine and the thyroid but I don't want to overload you with details. Let's just say I am a big believer in using natural means to correct problems and restore balance.
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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Zen Peddler


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Re: Chronic Fatigue [Re: zorbman]
#5658035 - 05/21/06 08:52 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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If your worried about Iodine levels just get some bloody iodised salt for like $1. People often claim that becuase they suffer from fatigue they have a Thyroid condition. In actual fact the thyroid is very easily tested by simple thyroid hormone blood tests and basal temperature checks. Whereas proper chronic fatigue syndrome has many more symptoms other than just tiredness. GZood things for energy if your adrenal glands are deficient is that licorice tea will make a huge difference - maybe give that a try.
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zorbman
blarrr


Registered: 06/04/04
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Salt is not recommended as a regular supplement. There are far better methods available to supplement with iodine. Iodine was added to salt to correct a common condition earlier in the last century known as goiter (swollen thyroid gland).
Seaweed such as kelp would be a far better source than iodized salt which you are probably getting more than enough anyway if you have the normal American diet. Iodine in pill form is also available.
The RDA for iodine was only established in 1980 and is controversial. Many doctors who study the subject are coming to believe that the RDA is far too low for optimal thyroid function.
So basically the amount of iodine in salt is just the bare minimum to prevent goiter, but you can still have a subfunctioning thyroid. According to many doctors who specialize in treating the thyroid, such as Dr.David Brownstein, 80-95% of people in the U.S. are deficient in iodine.
Iodine intake has fallen over 50% in the U.S. over the last 30 years.*
Iodine is in a class of chemicals known as halogens. Other halogens include fluourine, chlorine, and bromine. The lower molecular weight halogens displace the higher ones in the body. All three I mentioned are lower molecular weights than iodine and thus displace it. You get chlorine and often fluorine in tap water.
In the early 1960s, iodine was added to bread as a dough conditioner. But in the 1980s, iodine was replaced with bromine, something the body does not need and something which displaces iodine in the body- a double whammy.
So we are not getting enough iodine in our foods and what little we do get is being displaced in the body by related chemicals which compete with iodine uptake.
*Hollowell, J.G., Staehling, N.W., Hannon, W.H., et al, Iodine Nutrition in the United States. Trends and Public Health Implications: Iodine Excretion Data from National Health and Nutrition Examination Surveys I and III (1971-1974 and 1988-1994). J. of Clin. Endocr. & Metab., 83:3401-3408,1998
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
Edited by zorbman (05/22/06 12:39 PM)
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Sheepish


Registered: 04/02/02
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Re: Chronic Fatigue [Re: ilus]
#6096194 - 09/24/06 04:35 PM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
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I hate to bumb up such an old thread, but I don't want to start another thread.
For the last 2 years I have had chronic fatigue and it has not improved in the slightest. I have tried pretty much everything - plenty of rest, abstinence from all drugs, had my tonsils removed (my lymph nodes in my neck were swollen constantly), been on tricyclics, gone through a homeopathic regime and tried various vitamins/supplements that have been suggested to help with fatigue. None of these even slightly made a difference. I also have problems staying asleep - I can get to bed easy enough, but I will wake up a few times in the night. Sometimes it might just be once, but sometimes it'll be 3 or 4 times. Even after 8-9 hours sleep, I find it extremely difficult to get out of bed. I do mild exercise once a week (Wing Chun kung fu class) and catch the bus to town (an average day I do about 30 mins walking).
This all started after getting VERY sick (glandular fever, or mono for you Americans). At the time I was doing a trial period at a new workplace, so I wasn't able to take as much time off as I would have liked (2 weeks, and since it was trial period, I didn't have any sick leave). Basically, getting back into work too soon didn't do me any good and that year was an EXTREMELY busy and stressful year. That and trying to get back into my old social life of late nights and some partying. It's been 2 years since I initially had glandular fever, and even though I no longer have it, it seems like nothing much has changed. I no longer have swollen glands in my throat or any signs of sickness, but I feel constantly tired and even the slightest amount of exercise can leave me feeling absolutely exhausted. My thinking feels sluggish and it can be hard to focus. I get more headaches than I used to and they feel different than normal.
Does Iodine REALLY work? I have tried a whole list of natural supplements that were MEANT to work, and have helped others. But none of these helped me. I didn't even notice a slight increase in energy. Not even melatonin/5-htp helps me with my sleep patterns.
This is really getting to me. Most mornings at work are extremely painful and there is lots of dark thinking and despair. I have no desire to kill myself, but if I have to live this way for the next 40 years, things don't look too bright.
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The_Hobbit
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Re: Chronic Fatigue [Re: Sheepish]
#6097644 - 09/25/06 03:53 AM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
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30 minutes of walking a day and 1 day a week of moderately intense exercise doesn't work that well. You need to be more active.
There is nothing wrong with walking for hours a day, doing some pushups, meditation, squatting positions, running, stretching. That is just a normal day's work if you are healthy enough for it. Push your limits a little bit. You need to be tired when hitting your bed. Real tired. =)
-------------------- Smoking my hobbit leaf... Please keep in mind that I am just a human being. Please read my posts carefully and interpret their meaning for yourself.
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Sheepish


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Re: Chronic Fatigue [Re: The_Hobbit]
#6099135 - 09/25/06 04:19 PM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
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That's all very well, but EXCESSIVE exercise leaves me feeling exhausted for days. And at the end of a normal day, I'm exhausted anyway. I have pushed myself hard before, and just ended up feeling far worse, and sick again for a long time.
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The_Hobbit
Bilbo Baggins


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Re: Chronic Fatigue [Re: Sheepish]
#6101457 - 09/26/06 01:24 AM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yeah. I should have mentioned that you should listen to your body and understand it's signals. I also didn't take into account that you are working, which is quite a strenuous thing to do.
My point still stands. I beleive it's totally necessary to do intense exercise that will produce real results. Walking and wing chung just don't do it, bro. I practically expect to feel like poo if I do not do real exercise a few times a week.
What is real exercise? Say there is a hill that is 80 yards tall. Sprinting up that and crawling back down backwards. Do that over and over until you are super tired. Going swimming for a few hours. Running a few miles. Doing some crunches, pushups, chinups, and handstands. Going hiking for a couple hours at a good pace.
Now that is real exercise. Without that, your body will not grow. The other key factor is food. You have to eat right do support your efforts.
I really feel that you would notice good results if you could do atleast 1 intense exercise session a week. I mean something where you really and truly push your limits. It will hurt so bad that you have no choice, but to laugh.
-------------------- Smoking my hobbit leaf... Please keep in mind that I am just a human being. Please read my posts carefully and interpret their meaning for yourself.
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zorbman
blarrr


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Re: Chronic Fatigue [Re: Sheepish]
#6104974 - 09/26/06 08:16 PM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
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Do you have any issues with weight? The reason I ask is you mentioned difficulty sleeping. It sounds like you are not going into deep restful sleep and sleep apnea is a condition related to weight. Several of the complaints you described are symptoms of sleep apnea, a condition that continually wakes the sufferer throughout the night which prevents deep restfull sleep thus the tiredness throughout the day.
"Symptoms of sleep apnea include restless sleep, and loud snoring (with periods of silence followed by gasps). Other symptoms are non-specific: morning headaches, trouble concentrating, irritability, forgetfulness, mood or behavior changes, increased heart rate, anxiety, depression, increased frequency of urination, bedwetting, esophageal reflux and heavy sweating at night."
The article also mentions that sleep apnea can begin after getting mono and you mentioned having that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_apnea#Adults
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
Edited by zorbman (09/27/06 01:16 PM)
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Sheepish


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Re: Chronic Fatigue [Re: zorbman]
#6107925 - 09/27/06 04:05 PM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
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I assume by "issues with weight", you mean overweight? If so, definitely not the problem here. I'm 132 pounds and 5'11", so I'm quite under weight. My weight used to be a lot lighter, but I have succeeded in gaining about 15 pounds a few years ago. My diet is a lot better than it was - more consistant meal times, 3 square meals a day (with morning and afternoon tea), more fruit/vegs and healthier foods and 1-2 litres of water a day (I used to drink none, so it's a dramatic improvement). I haven't managed to gain any more weight than I did a few years ago, but it stays pretty steady. If I get ill I generally lose weight, which goes back on when I can resume a normal diet again.
I forgot to note that a vitamin supplement I'm taking lately contains Iodine (50mg) among other minerals and a whole list of vitamins (B12, C, D etc). It hasn't had a huge impact on sleep or fatigue.
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zorbman
blarrr


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Re: Chronic Fatigue [Re: Sheepish]
#6107962 - 09/27/06 04:19 PM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
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You don't have to be overweight to have sleep apnea, but it is more common among overweight people which is why I asked. Obstructive Sleep Apnea in a mild form affects about 1 in 5 Americans according to the article. It would prevent your from going into deep REM sleep which would make you tired all the time no matter how long you were in bed.
Take a look at the article and see if it sounds like your situation.
Everything I have heard you describe leads me to believe that is your most likely problem.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_apnea#Adults
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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The_Hobbit
Bilbo Baggins


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Re: Chronic Fatigue [Re: zorbman]
#6114256 - 09/29/06 04:15 AM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
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sasa
-------------------- Smoking my hobbit leaf... Please keep in mind that I am just a human being. Please read my posts carefully and interpret their meaning for yourself.
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The_Hobbit
Bilbo Baggins


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Re: Chronic Fatigue [Re: zorbman]
#6114257 - 09/29/06 04:17 AM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
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wind & current
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