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Sporetacus
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Which of the following was the worst role model?
#5646625 - 05/18/06 02:56 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Which of the following figures did the most damage as a role model by his lifestyle?
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Alan Watts
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Tim Leary
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John C. Lilly
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Votes accepted from (05/18/06 12:00 PM) to (05/25/06 02:55 PM)
-------------------- I'm Sporetacus!
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DoctorJ


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Re: Which of the following was the worst role model? [Re: Sporetacus]
#5646641 - 05/18/06 03:01 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I talk to Leary all the time.
He has helped me solve many genetic problems.
The problem with Leary is that he figured out how to change his own genetics. He fell in love with mutation, but he was unable to do it correctly. Thats why he got cancer.
also, he was a fuckin lizard. big time.
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Kid_Kaoz
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Re: Which of the following was the worst role model? [Re: DoctorJ]
#5646782 - 05/18/06 03:35 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I can't see how Leary's efforts did any negative 'damage'.
If we're speaking in terms of who affected societal norms the most, I'd say Leary without a doubt.
-------------------- Life is how you live it.
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Icelander
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Re: Which of the following was the worst role model? [Re: Sporetacus]
#5646941 - 05/18/06 04:20 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sporetacus said: Which of the following figures did the most damage as a role model by his lifestyle?
None of them, I think it is Redgreenvines.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Sporetacus
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Re: Which of the following was the worst role model? [Re: Icelander]
#5646946 - 05/18/06 04:22 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Are you on any medication for your Dickinson's, er Parkinson's disease?
-------------------- I'm Sporetacus!
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Icelander
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Re: Which of the following was the worst role model? [Re: Sporetacus]
#5646950 - 05/18/06 04:24 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Seriously, Imagine how Red must live. That would destroy so many hopeful wannabes.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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dblaney
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Re: Which of the following was the worst role model? [Re: Sporetacus]
#5646971 - 05/18/06 04:36 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I said Leary. Though he helped to spread LSD, his efforts to change society were largely responsible for the massive prohibition on psychedelics. I think his intentions were good, but he tried to effect change on an enormous level by getting people to join a counter culture. IMO, I would want a role model who encouraged individualism and helped people get in touch with their true natures, not simply disillusion them from the government and the societal herd.
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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Sporetacus
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Re: Which of the following was the worst role model? [Re: dblaney]
#5646976 - 05/18/06 04:39 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Will you be our new role model?
-------------------- I'm Sporetacus!
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dblaney
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Re: Which of the following was the worst role model? [Re: Sporetacus]
#5646996 - 05/18/06 04:45 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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As a child I never really had a role model. I'm very glad for this, because it allowed me to tred my own path, figure things out for myself. The whole idea of modelling someone's behavior/attitude/life is absurd (with the few exceptional cases such as Zen master/disciple), as it completely distracts you from your self and detracts from your own potential.
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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Sporetacus
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Re: Which of the following was the worst role model? [Re: dblaney]
#5646999 - 05/18/06 04:47 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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The guy who taught me how to make a joint was my "roll" model.
-------------------- I'm Sporetacus!
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DoctorJ


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Re: Which of the following was the worst role model? [Re: Sporetacus]
#5647003 - 05/18/06 04:48 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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dblaney
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Re: Which of the following was the worst role model? [Re: Sporetacus]
#5647007 - 05/18/06 04:51 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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OH THE HUMANITY!

-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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Sporetacus
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Re: Which of the following was the worst role model? [Re: dblaney]
#5647012 - 05/18/06 04:53 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Are you saying that the Hindenburg was a giant blunt?
-------------------- I'm Sporetacus!
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dblaney
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Re: Which of the following was the worst role model? [Re: Sporetacus]
#5647020 - 05/18/06 04:56 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Why, yes! That is exactly what I'm saying, how'd you know??
Man, if it really was a giant blunt, I would find a way to move backwards in the space-time continuum just so I could stand on that field and be in range of the smoke.

Mmm, puff puff puff puff puff puff puff puff, pass.
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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Icelander
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Re: Which of the following was the worst role model? [Re: dblaney]
#5647021 - 05/18/06 04:56 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
dblaney said: I said Leary. Though he helped to spread LSD, his efforts to change society were largely responsible for the massive prohibition on psychedelics. I think his intentions were good, but he tried to effect change on an enormous level by getting people to join a counter culture. IMO, I would want a role model who encouraged individualism and helped people get in touch with their true natures, not simply disillusion them from the government and the societal herd.
It was worth the shot. Nobody else was doing much to wake the average guy from total slumber.
Leary was one of my favorites. (I didn't vote for any of them because I'm not a registered voter) I think we are here at this site because of folk like Leary. He did try and get people in touch with their "true" natures. It's not his fault if people are a bunch of slackers. Much more so than any religious leaders which includes things like Buddhism, and the New agers.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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dblaney
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Re: Which of the following was the worst role model? [Re: Icelander]
#5647028 - 05/18/06 04:59 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Indeed. If I was in his situation though, I think I would have gone about it differently. What's done is done though. Things may have turned out much worse if Leary never came around.
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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Silversoul
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Re: Which of the following was the worst role model? [Re: Sporetacus]
#5647053 - 05/18/06 05:08 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I would say Swami. What kind of life is it to go around criticizing others, trying to be the center of attention, and then whining continuously when he himself came under scrutiny? Whatever happened to that guy, anyway?
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MushmanTheManic
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Re: Which of the following was the worst role model? [Re: Silversoul]
#5647078 - 05/18/06 05:17 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Sporetacus
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Re: Which of the following was the worst role model? [Re: Silversoul]
#5647081 - 05/18/06 05:18 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Kriyananda?
Satchidananda?
Muktananda?
-------------------- I'm Sporetacus!
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Icelander
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Re: Which of the following was the worst role model? [Re: dblaney]
#5647113 - 05/18/06 05:29 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
dblaney said: Indeed. If I was in his situation though, I think I would have gone about it differently. What's done is done though. Things may have turned out much worse if Leary never came around.
That's just it. You don't have what it takes (guess) to be in his situation. He created that situation with his personal power. And for you and me it's much different.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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fireworks_god
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Re: Which of the following was the worst role model? [Re: Icelander]
#5647274 - 05/18/06 06:24 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
dblaney said: Though he helped to spread LSD, his efforts to change society were largely responsible for the massive prohibition on psychedelics. I think his intentions were good, but he tried to effect change on an enormous level by getting people to join a counter culture.
He did effect change on an enormous level. Sure, there is a prohibition on psychadelics now. The change that he effected was such a deviation from the "normal" state of things that it provoked harsh reactions. It certainly sparked a distinct interchange amongst two dualities that were almost opposite of each other.
What results from that? Growth. Near perpetual change. A balance is eventually achieved, and we've gained as a result.
Don't you think there will be a day when we will find ourselves being mature, responsible individuals who more fully realize the nature of reality, and will be capable of utilizing psychadelics for growth on a multitude of levels? Obviously, all actions have subsequent consequences, and when exploring new territory as a society, we are going to stumble around and lose our footing. We learn from it, and thus become better equipped to venture further.
Quote:
IMO, I would want a role model who encouraged individualism and helped people get in touch with their true natures, not simply disillusion them from the government and the societal herd.
How would it be possible for someone to truly develop as an individual when they are concerned with illusions cast by a government and a society? Most certainly, such a widescale disillusionment, in the long run, has provided for more individual growth and empowerment than if he were to have simply lived as an aware individual and had employed a subtle influence.
After all, I think it is a reasonably safe conclusion that, if it were not for Timothy Leary, there would be no Shroomery.org. 
Honestly, who can say that they have had the pleasure of bitch slapping a government and rigid societal structure in the face and took a crowbar to one of its knees?
 Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Icelander
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Re: Which of the following was the worst role model? [Re: fireworks_god]
#5647290 - 05/18/06 06:30 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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How would it be possible for someone to truly develop as an individual when they are concerned with illusions cast by a government and a society? Most certainly, such a widescale disillusionment, in the long run, has provided for more individual growth and empowerment than if he were to have simply lived as an aware individual and had employed a subtle influence.
I think this is very true. I myself am very grateful to Tim Leary. I think I woke up because of the chance he took. He did go to jail. Had they kept LSD for the elite who were "advanced enough and responsible enough". I would never have gotten my messed up little hands on the stuff. Things would have been alot worse for me IMO.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Huehuecoyotl
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Re: Which of the following was the worst role model? [Re: Icelander]
#5647762 - 05/18/06 09:01 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I tend to agree there. I used to feel differently, but after seeing the documentary "Hoffman's Potion" I realized that acedemia was angry at him for popularizing LSD because he took it out of the hands of researchers and put it out on the street. Many of these LSD researchers from the 50s and 60s were very closed minded/class minded people who thought common people should never be exposed to it. I suspect these people had a vested interest in maintaining the status quo in society as they were the rich and privileged. The film did not address this directly, but the implication was obvious. Aldous Huxley once even stated that hallucinogens should only be for the enlightened.....that meanss "rich" in common terms. Leary had his failings such as egomania and messiah complex, but he brought LSD to the masses.
This poll was a loaded question and I did not vote. Each of these men made a contribution, and each of them was human and imperfect. Look Sporetacus, what axe do you have to grind. What gives you the idea that people do not have weaknesses and failings. Many great people of note had worse failings than these guys. Patrick Henry kept his disturbed wife tied to a bed in his attic, Martin Luther King was a womanizer, Thomas Jefferson kept slaves yet called himself an abolitionist and he also abused his slaves sexually by taking advantage of their status, George Washington was a British officer who betrayed his country and waged a rebellion, and near every U.S. President has fucked around behind their wives backs. So, the sins of Leary, Watts, and Lilly compare to these? I think not.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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DoctorJ


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Re: Which of the following was the worst role model? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#5647874 - 05/18/06 09:29 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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very wise words, teacher
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Sporetacus
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Re: Which of the following was the worst role model? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#5648060 - 05/18/06 10:10 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Thanks for pointing those sinners out. I have added them to my list.
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Deviate
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Re: Which of the following was the worst role model? [Re: Sporetacus]
#5648699 - 05/19/06 12:45 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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i voted for timothy leary. although ive always been and still am a fan of his, my opinions of his work have changed over the years and i now think he was quite a nut. there was definitely a drug crazed maniac side to him. for instance, he believed we'd have an LSD using and marijuana smoking supreme court and all be using electrode brain stimulation by 1980 while "the lsd orthodox" took the place of the current establishment. he tried to use lsd as a "quick fix" for all the problems of society and of course this approach was doomed to failure.
some of the advice he gave was dangerous and irresponsible such as recommending that people smoke marijuana everyday. his books made great promises but never delivered. they read like mere outlines of the ideas they were supposed to convey. if timothy leary hadn't been so ridiculously anti establishment and instead spent more time working within the system, we might be sitting on top of 40 years of extremely compelling psychedelic research right now. to me his work is empty of any real spiritual message and his theories lack any kind of supporting evidence.
" It was worth the shot. Nobody else was doing much to wake the average guy from total slumber.
Leary was one of my favorites. (I didn't vote for any of them because I'm not a registered voter) I think we are here at this site because of folk like Leary. He did try and get people in touch with their "true" natures. It's not his fault if people are a bunch of slackers. Much more so than any religious leaders which includes things like Buddhism, and the New agers. "
timothy leary was not interested in the average joe, he said
LSD is not for every brain - only the healthy, happy, wholesome, handsome, hopeful, humorous, high-velocity should seek these experiences. This elitism is totally self-determined.
Unless you are self-confident, self-directed, self-selected, please abstain.
with all that said, i still have a lot of positive things to say about him as well. his sense of humor and wit and overall enthusiam were unparalleled and he did quite a lot for the expansion of consciousness. there are many tidbits of deep wisdom throughout his books.
Edited by Deviate (05/19/06 12:50 AM)
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ninjapixie
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Re: Which of the following was the worst role model? [Re: Deviate]
#5649218 - 05/19/06 06:28 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Didn't Albert Hofmann recently say that what leary did with lsd was criminal?
And why isn't Terence McKenna on this list?
-------------------- Put that monkey back in the oven.
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Icelander
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Re: Which of the following was the worst role model? [Re: Deviate]
#5649419 - 05/19/06 08:45 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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timothy leary was not interested in the average joe
In the sense he means this I am not either. But making LSD available to the masses provided access to those who could benefit from the experience.
Frankly I think scientific research comes in a distant second to the individual experience of using it.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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dblaney
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Re: Which of the following was the worst role model? [Re: Icelander]
#5649586 - 05/19/06 10:13 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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You all make some very compelling points. I'm rethinking my opinion of Leary as we speak. And by rethinking, I mean I'm erasing every judgment I've ever made of the fellow. Creating judgments and conceptions and opinions about anything is very dangerous and potentially detrimental. I respect him for all he did and accomplished, and I will not give a second thought to the negative consequences of his actions.
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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fireworks_god
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Re: Which of the following was the worst role model? [Re: Deviate]
#5649757 - 05/19/06 11:11 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Deviate said: some of the advice he gave was dangerous and irresponsible such as recommending that people smoke marijuana everyday.
Explain your reasoning for how this is to be considered dangerous and irresponsible advice.
 Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Icelander
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Re: Which of the following was the worst role model? [Re: fireworks_god]
#5649793 - 05/19/06 11:27 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Spoken like a true pothead. Leary recommended (for one on a path of self discovery) pot daily and acid once a week.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Silversoul
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Re: Which of the following was the worst role model? [Re: Icelander]
#5649796 - 05/19/06 11:28 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: Leary recommended (for one on a path of self discovery) pot daily and acid once a week.
Sounds about right to me.
--------------------
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Icelander
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Re: Which of the following was the worst role model? [Re: Silversoul]
#5649816 - 05/19/06 11:32 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Well mileage may vary. I don't think you can set a formula like that. I think he was sharing what worked for him and there wasn't a lot of info on using like there is now. He did his best at that time. He was a pioneer of sorts and we can't expect that he would have gotten it all correct. His book the Politics of Ecstacy blew my head open at one time.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Deviate
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Re: Which of the following was the worst role model? [Re: fireworks_god]
#5650598 - 05/19/06 03:06 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
fireworks_god said:
Quote:
Deviate said: some of the advice he gave was dangerous and irresponsible such as recommending that people smoke marijuana everyday.
Explain your reasoning for how this is to be considered dangerous and irresponsible advice.
 Peace.
because he assumed that what may have worked for him, would also work for other people. nowhere did he warn of any of the risks that come with habitual marijuana use or give any advice with how to deal with them. the infomation he gave out was dangerously incomplete.
i know from experience that smoking marijuana every day is an extremely bad idea for some people (perhaps even most people) and i also know from experience that the negatives affects of this behavior aren't immediately apparent. so if someone were to go along with leary's idea, its quite possible they could end up doing quite a bit of harm to themselves before realizing daily marijuana use is not for them. i consider it irresponsible to recommend something that is potentially harmful without even mentioning the possibility of negative outcomes.
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fireworks_god
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Re: Which of the following was the worst role model? [Re: Deviate]
#5650914 - 05/19/06 04:51 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Deviate said: nowhere did he warn of any of the risks that come with habitual marijuana use or give any advice with how to deal with them.
These risks being?
Quote:
the infomation he gave out was dangerously incomplete.
All information is incomplete. 
Quote:
i know from experience that smoking marijuana every day is an extremely bad idea for some people (perhaps even most people) and i also know from experience that the negatives affects of this behavior aren't immediately apparent.
What doesn't work for you, you assume doesn't work for all people? 
Seriously, though, I highly doubt that smoking marijuana every day, in itself, has negative effects, beyond legal/social risks and possible health risks, related to the fact that one is inhaling smoke into their lungs.
Quote:
so if someone were to go along with leary's idea, its quite possible they could end up doing quite a bit of harm to themselves before realizing daily marijuana use is not for them.
It would have been much better if he exclaimed "Everyone! Maybe smoke marijuana every day!". 
Leary was only responsible for himself and his advice. It is an individual's responsibility and decision on how they wish to act.
Quote:
i consider it irresponsible to recommend something that is potentially harmful without even mentioning the possibility of negative outcomes.
I consider it irresponsible to engage in behavior without considering the possibility of potenial negative attributes of that behavior on one's own. Naturally, its only one's decision. I fail to understand how it is irresponsible to make suggestions to others.
I mean, when giving directions on how to get to Mc Donald's to another, is it irresponsible to neglect to inform them of all the potential traffic accidents that they might become involved with, or that they might become lost and wander around and run out of gas and get gangbanged by a bunch of Mexicans, or that something might fall out of the sky, or that the Sun might explode, etc. etc. etc. etc.?
The last I was aware, there isn't exactly much consensus on negative effects of marijuana, beyond the first-hand experience of individuals who engaged in habitual use and quite possibly attribute negative traits that they experienced to the marijuana usage, and not the multitude of other actual causes that they themselves are responsible for.
Anxiety? Mental programming error. Most individuals who use marijuana without let up probably have serious problems that indirectly cause them to use marijuana in such a manner.
Personally, I can smoke three times a day for a month, and then go two months without smoking at all, and/or any possible combination within that. In my late teenager years, I was probably smoking nonstop for months. I've never experienced any problems that resulted from the marijuana usage. 
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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fireworks_god
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Re: Which of the following was the worst role model? [Re: Icelander]
#5650927 - 05/19/06 04:59 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Icelander said: Spoken like a true pothead. Leary recommended (for one on a path of self discovery) pot daily and acid once a week.
Makes sense. Smoking in the evening, once work is done and all household activities are complete, would be an excellent oppurtunity for reflection on the day, what was experienced and what was learned, entering a great state of relaxation and higher awareness without any obligations or activities to dampen that state. Perhaps some ambient musikk to set the mood.... One could set goals for tomorrow, what one wishes to work on improving, etc., and then get ready for some much deserved rest.
I wouldn't recommend smoking in the morning, though. 
And then acid or mushrooms on the weekend. I think we need these moments of accessing higher states than what we are normally capable of, in order to acheive perspectives on our life that would otherwise be difficult to attain. Obviously, such should not be relied upon, and much focus and dedication is to be placed on integration, growth, and change.
Great oppurtunties for those who actively, consciously engage in transforming themselves and living one hell of a great life. 
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Deviate
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Re: Which of the following was the worst role model? [Re: fireworks_god]
#5651089 - 05/19/06 05:53 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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These risks being?
here is a report on the pschological and physiological affects of cannabis:
http://www.health.gov.au/internet/wcms/publishing.nsf/content/health-pubs-drug-cannab2-home.htm
sorry its a little dated, i use to have a much better one done by the canadian government which was very in depth and objective but i cannot find the link to it now. if anyone reading this knows where i can access it please let me know.
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What doesn't work for you, you assume doesn't work for all people?
i didn't say that.
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Seriously, though, I highly doubt that smoking marijuana every day, in itself, has negative effects, beyond legal/social risks and possible health risks, related to the fact that one is inhaling smoke into their lungs.
well you're free to doubt it all you want but my experience, the experience of several people ive spoken to and the opinions of most experts suggest otherwise.
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It would have been much better if he exclaimed "Everyone! Maybe smoke marijuana every day!".
Leary was only responsible for himself and his advice. It is an individual's responsibility and decision on how they wish to act.
of course it is, that doesn't change how i feel about some of the things he said.
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I consider it irresponsible to engage in behavior without considering the possibility of potenial negative attributes of that behavior on one's own. Naturally, its only one's decision. I fail to understand how it is irresponsible to make suggestions to others.
I mean, when giving directions on how to get to Mc Donald's to another, is it irresponsible to neglect to inform them of all the potential traffic accidents that they might become involved with, or that they might become lost and wander around and run out of gas and get gangbanged by a bunch of Mexicans, or that something might fall out of the sky, or that the Sun might explode, etc. etc. etc. etc.?
if they were unfamaliar with the area and the directions given instructed that they pass through a very dangerous part of town, then yes i would consider it irresponsible to neglect to mention that this route was dangerous.
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Anxiety? Mental programming error. Most individuals who use marijuana without let up probably have serious problems that indirectly cause them to use marijuana in such a manner.
Personally, I can smoke three times a day for a month, and then go two months without smoking at all, and/or any possible combination within that. In my late teenager years, I was probably smoking nonstop for months. I've never experienced any problems that resulted from the marijuana usage.
surely you wouldn't try to use the fact that you didn't experience any problems to suggest potential problems dont exist so im just going to ignore this part of your post.
Edited by Deviate (05/19/06 05:59 PM)
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fireworks_god
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Re: Which of the following was the worst role model? [Re: Deviate]
#5652340 - 05/20/06 05:04 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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A major concern about the psychological consequences of cannabis use has been the possible effects of its chronic use on psychological adjustment in general, and its impact upon motivation and performance in occupational and social roles in particular. There have been two variations on this concern depending upon the age of the cannabis user. Among adults, an "amotivational syndrome" has been described, in which chronic cannabis users become apathetic, socially withdrawn, and perform at a level of everyday functioning well below their capacity prior to their cannabis use. Among adolescents, the concern has been about the effects of heavy cannabis use on motivation to undertake the educational and other psychological tasks that are an essential part of the transition from childhood to adulthood.
Sorry, but marijuana doesn't have anything to do with the decisions that one decides to make. If one decides they no longer feel like participating in life and have difficulty motivating themselves, then that is their responsibility, and marijuana isn't the cause of that.
Its interesting, though, that people love to blame marijuana for being lazy. Of course, it isn't their fault! It is marijuana.
Of course, the rest of the listed psychological effects of chronic cannabis use pertain to whether or not it is a gateway drug, and its relationship with delinquency and crime. 
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There are a number of clear outcomes of research on adolescent cannabis and other illicit drug use. First, there is strong continuity of development from adolescence into early adult life in which many of the indicators of adverse development which have been attributed to cannabis use precede its first use (Kandel, 1978). These include minor delinquency, poor educational performance, nonconformity, and poor adjustment.
Nonconformity, eh?
So where are these profound, actual, adverse psychological effects of smoking marijuana? Because there wasn't any listed in that source...
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly


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Re: Which of the following was the worst role model? [Re: Icelander]
#5652619 - 05/20/06 08:43 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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"Leary recommended (for one on a path of self discovery) pot daily and acid once a week."
From the age of 19 until I was 22 I dropped acid an average of once a week (some weeks I did twice with 2000mcg the second time). My average dose was 1000mcg. Look where it got me...
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Icelander
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Re: Which of the following was the worst role model? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#5652751 - 05/20/06 09:43 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Leary is smiling right now.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly


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Re: Which of the following was the worst role model? [Re: Icelander]
#5652764 - 05/20/06 09:49 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I guess my astral body is shot through with all kinds of holes...like moths got into it...lol
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Icelander
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Re: Which of the following was the worst role model? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#5652770 - 05/20/06 09:52 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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You need a bigger set of moth balls.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly


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Re: Which of the following was the worst role model? [Re: Icelander]
#5652784 - 05/20/06 09:59 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Astral moths?
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Deviate
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Re: Which of the following was the worst role model? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#5685147 - 05/28/06 11:39 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Nonconformity, eh?
So where are these profound, actual, adverse psychological effects of smoking marijuana? Because there wasn't any listed in that source...
i cant find the canadian report but the scientific data isn't important anyway because ive studied a lot of the data on cannabis and there are so many contradicting reports we could spend weeks debating it. based on my personal experience and the experiences of people i know, i feel that smoking marijuana everyday for extended periods can lead to a change in the way it affects you that is undesirable. my point reguarding timothy leary was that he tended to ignore or downplay the dangers and the risks of psychedelics and encourage frequent use when at a time when little was known about the long term affects.
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