Home | Community | Message Board

Everything Mushrooms
Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract, Kratom Powder For Sale   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds, Bulk Cannabis Seeds, Feminized Cannabis Seeds, High THC Strains, USA West Coast Strains   Bridgetown Botanicals Bridgetown Botanicals, CBD Capsules, CBD Edibles, CBD Oils, CBD Topicals   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder, Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder

Jump to first unread post Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | Next >  [ show all ]
Offlinekotik
fuckingsuperhero
 User Gallery
Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 06/29/04
Posts: 3,531
Last seen: 2 years, 21 days
Re: Fiction or non-fiction - it doesn't matter [Re: Lakefingers]
    #5640947 - 05/17/06 08:21 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

I disagree with your statement. Being philosophical opens one to the foundations of science, facts, truth, concepts, activities, etc.




heh, you can disagree, but I'm not trying to state opinion. I can't argue about philosophy, because I agree. Philosophy is one of the most important things to us as humans, even those ignorant to the process.

Quote:

Science is methodologically incapable of understanding what motivates and enables its ability to produce facts and is therefore blind to its own foundationalist worldview.




now this i can debate. Philosophy is a precursor to science in many ways. The "problem" (for lack of a better word at 8am) with philosophy is that the entire process takes place within the minds, ears and mouths of people, coming upon "findings" and even "solutions" all through mental process. Philosophy is always in theory, it does not always apply in the same way science does, regardless of culture, environment or etc. Science is simply the ability to take a philisophical idea, and put it into physical terms; being able to test the theory and turn it into something that can be observed by anyone.

Quote:

Science presupposes an entire rationalism (a presupposition of the justification of *fact*, or the cult of fact) which leads one exponentially farther away from the truth the more one readily one believes that the methods of science reveal some essential truth (i.e. something beyond the factual).




this is an personal problem, not a problem with science. When you say it "leads one away," you are really saying "those who don't understand get confused." It's somewhat obvious, and should not be associated with science, while at the same time you must recognize that you cannot really dismiss anyone from being a philosopher.. because again, its physical theory vs metaphysical theory in many situations. To those who do understand real science, it is not something that provides "facts." If anything, it simply reveals what is most unlikely in a given situation, provided you also know what factors are in play.

Quote:

any narcissist can say something nice about himself/herself, but no narcissist can speak about himself/herself free from their narcissism




maybe its just early, but i have no idea what you are talking about.

this all really reflects the topic of this thread. To me, fiction vs non-fiction DOES matter. If you spend your entire life reading and fantasizing about unicorns and making wishes and etc. I would argue that after 30-40 years of that mentality, you will in fact, be less reasonable when interacting with an "average" person. Again, lack of a better word.. think average in the context of a bell curve).

I'll also add here that those who have no imagination at all, are also at fault in some ways, because they may also fall into a mindset where certain things just aren't possible, when scientific theories can be incomplete most of the time. I actually see many connections between philosophy and scientific theory, in fact they use the same mental processes, regardless of the intended result. It's only the application and intention of ideas that set the two apart.


--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


Edited by kotik (05/17/06 08:24 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Female User Gallery

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: Fiction or non-fiction - it doesn't matter [Re: Sporetacus]
    #5641336 - 05/17/06 11:57 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

It doesn't matter when you pan out the view.

Everything that will happen in the world today was fiction yesterday.

Today, it is non fiction and much will be recorded as facts of what came to be true on the day may 14, 2006.

Yesterday, on May 13 2006 it was all just a pipe dream, a possibility, a probability, in the imagination of the mind-fiction.

There is no truth in believing that what is fiction today won't become non fiction, factual and true someday up the road.


Consider how fictional our world today would look to someone tens, hundreds and thousands of years back in time. What they would see is the truth of today.

Who is to say that what imagination beholds is not the probabilities of what may be in the future, showing itself to us on the screens of our minds?






The expression "The truth shall set you Free" has a different , non material meaning to me.

It's all just pure energy that has become manipulated and distorted to create all of this into shapes and forms and concepts of matter literally and figuratively which we call reality (subjective and objective).

Getting caught up into the distorted shapes and forms of reality is what binds us. The truth can set us free and that is that it is all just pure energy when you unravel the binds and it all becomes fiction once again.

There is a place in the distant future where planet earth will no longer be really truly here. To believe it was if you were elsewhere in the cosmos would be fiction. Same will happen to everything you believe to be so today. *poof* like magic, gone................

What in hell and the heavens is it anyone thinks they can pin down permanently? Nothing. There's your truth that will set you free.

:peace: :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Offlinekotik
fuckingsuperhero
 User Gallery
Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 06/29/04
Posts: 3,531
Last seen: 2 years, 21 days
Re: Fiction or non-fiction - it doesn't matter [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5641368 - 05/17/06 12:10 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

this is still P&S right?  :rolleyes:


--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Female User Gallery

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: Fiction or non-fiction - it doesn't matter [Re: kotik]
    #5641388 - 05/17/06 12:24 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

kotik said:
this is still P&S right?  :rolleyes:




If one is posting the eye rolling emoticon (symbolic of ego resistance expressed) in this case, to  a passage inspired (in spirit) of a philosophical outlook, then I would say YES! We are in the shroomeries Philosophy and Spirituality forum discussing a thoughtfull post someone put up on fiction and non fiction and the truth setting you free.

If it were to be posted in the science forum, I wonder what sort of replies it would get.

Feel free to debate against the philosophical, spiritual AND scientific truth of what I wrote Kotik.  Go ahead. Or is eye rolling the best you got to negate with? :wink:

:peace: :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineBlueCoyote
Beyond
Male User Gallery

Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 6,697
Loc: Between
Last seen: 1 year, 13 days
Re: Fiction or non-fiction - it doesn't matter [Re: Sporetacus]
    #5641504 - 05/17/06 01:11 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

I think, sporetacus was more about fictions about history or about fictions that that are claimed for truth in the now, but not proved.
The whole thing for the future may be on some other page of this word 'fiction' :wink: Once my favorite in the futuristic use of that word is the science-fiction.
But if fiction is mixed with metaphors or allegories in 'history-books', then humans should be told so.
We forgot to perceive those stories even allegorically, like our ancients did and 'transported' different 'meaning' with those (mostly spoken) lines.

If one mixes, better, masks intentionally metaphorical realm with that of perceived and proved facts (one should discern there), there is a real need to question that, as the constructed or intended 'picture' must not be the beneficialiest-intended one, if it has to be 'covered' as 'fact'...

Honesty


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Female User Gallery

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: Fiction or non-fiction - it doesn't matter [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #5642027 - 05/17/06 04:02 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

That's a highly polarized view blue. Try to completely SPLIT the human psyche up into a fictional OR non fictional conscious awareness.

Trying to will only lead to utter madness within the self.

You understand the stability of cohesive, interdependent polarities. 

Rip them apart and isolate them from one another and each becomes

DE-RANGED by itself, in the view of an observer.

Ped discussed the violence of such actions in the "what makes a good teacher post" quite nicely.

Take what you wrote blue and apply it to the phrase-

The truth shall set you free

If I am not free to decide for myself, what is fiction and non fiction, regardless of a label someone else put on it,  then where does the truth come in and how will it free me to decide and discern for myself?

Don't I first have to be free myself to put things to my own exploration, experiments and discoveries before I can come to truth? If I am free to do that, then I can't allow for labels to matter much to me before.

If I am not free to do that, I am trapped and forced to believe everything someone else put a non-fiction label on and not to consider the possibilities of something someone else put a fiction label on.

How does doing that set me free? :confused:

I'm curious why you left off with the word Honesty. What did that gesture mean to you?

One can honestly be aware of decieving others and remain honest about it. Now what?  :blush:

Some people make honest mistakes because of a lack of information. It may therefore look like they are intentionally decieving others all the while, they never meant or intended to and sincerely believed they were in the truth. Now what? :blush:

Being truly honest in or about something and what is truly real can be different things. Like giving an honest opinion of something. That doesn't make it a fact.

I knew this guy going through alcohol detox who would honestly see little green men running around his house. If at that time he was seeing them and people told him that they truly were not there, that truth of physical reality would not have freed him from seeing them.

Telling him a medical truth that he was hallucinating them would still not have freed him from the experience of seeing them running around. He really experienced it and that's the honest truth also. :shrug: Its all true at the same time.

What does honesty mean relative to this topic?

To imply that anything currently fiction can never become realized or materialized is being potentially dishonest.

If one tries to keep the non fiction and fiction isolated from each other, nothing will ever become of anything.

My home was once fiction and now here it is. My being a parent was once fiction and now, here it is real as life I am one. :shrug:

We see this transitioning and morphing between the two happening naturally around us all of the time. Like it or not, IT'S a fact of life and evolution. The once not real is made real every day. The once really so, is no longer at some point as well.

The lines that separate and divide all blur when you begin to see the big picture more clearly.


:peace: :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Offlinekotik
fuckingsuperhero
 User Gallery
Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 06/29/04
Posts: 3,531
Last seen: 2 years, 21 days
Re: Fiction or non-fiction - it doesn't matter [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5642703 - 05/17/06 07:09 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

let's have at it, only because I really think there is something to be debated here.

Quote:

It doesn't matter when you pan out the view.



This statement pretty much explains a difference in perspective.  To me, this statement is too generic and abstract to contain any meaningful truths or information.  The same reason I see paint splattered on a canvas and I don't recognize art sometimes I guess.

Quote:

Everything that will happen in the world today was fiction yesterday.



I disagree.  Tomorrow is simply today's anticipations. Yesterday is a memory of an experience.  Nothing mentioned is fiction, I would like you to explain that further.

Quote:

Today, it is non fiction and much will be recorded as facts of what came to be true on the day may 14, 2006.



still, 100% lost.  Perhaps you could explain your own personal definition of "fiction" for me.  To me, fiction means fabrication, abstraction, fantasy, actually, something much like the very first statement I quoted above.  To me, that represents fiction more than past or future events.

Quote:

Yesterday, on May 13 2006 it was all just a pipe dream, a possibility, a probability, in the imagination of the mind-fiction.



Again, I would beg to differ on this.  Your views are now turning more metaphysical than physical.  A problem I have with that is metaphysics represents poetry compared to writing a dictionary.  The dictionary clearly outlines facts.  A poem can use the same words, but depending on context they can transform meaning completely.

Quote:

There is no truth in believing that what is fiction today won't become non fiction, factual and true someday up the road.



correct, there is no truth in believing anything whatsoever.  Truth does not depend on its believability.  It doesn't depend on anything.

Quote:

Consider how fictional our world today would look to someone tens, hundreds and thousands of years back in time. What they would see is the truth of today.



you mention it would appear fictional.  that is much different from what IS fictional, like your own take on what people thousands of years ago would be thinking.  You fabircated that mentality, so it is infinitely more fictional than the actual perspective on a futuristic society.

Quote:

Who is to say that what imagination beholds is not the probabilities of what may be in the future, showing itself to us on the screens of our minds?



i agree.  imagination = future.  however that doesnt mean any kid with fingerpaints and a positive attitude is going to cure cancer.  you need to understand your tools.

Quote:

*poof* like magic



not a very factual statement.

Quote:

If one tries to keep the non fiction and fiction isolated from each other, nothing will ever become of anything.



generic, false statement.  always avoid absolutes.

:rolleyes:


--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineminijimiRRR
Stranger

Registered: 05/16/06
Posts: 4
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
Re: Fiction or non-fiction - it doesn't matter [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5642713 - 05/17/06 07:13 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

fiction or non fiction doent matter with religion. all that matters is that people believe it and that what keeps em in line, BECAUSE MOST PEOPLE NEED IT. But some of us dont need those things like religion and see the real truth------ (just something to think about when ur blasted)


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineminijimiRRR
Stranger

Registered: 05/16/06
Posts: 4
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
Re: Fiction or non-fiction - it doesn't matter [Re: minijimiRRR]
    #5642731 - 05/17/06 07:18 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

nm what i said it leads to more un-answered questions.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleMushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
Re: Fiction or non-fiction - it doesn't matter [Re: Sporetacus]
    #5642831 - 05/17/06 07:36 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Should we stop reading Shakespeare?


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Offlinekotik
fuckingsuperhero
 User Gallery
Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 06/29/04
Posts: 3,531
Last seen: 2 years, 21 days
Re: Fiction or non-fiction - it doesn't matter [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5643153 - 05/17/06 08:56 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

i have no idea what either of your replies were in reference to. Obviously you cannot survive off your left or right brain alone. Everything requires a certain degree of creativity and likewise, logic.

If I have any point to my comments, it would be this: The world needs more scientists than philosophers. Everyone is a philosopher, because it is arguably much easier than being a scientist.


--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Fiction or non-fiction - it doesn't matter [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5643261 - 05/17/06 09:17 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

MushmanTheManic said:
Should we stop reading Shakespeare?



Interestingly enough, I heard a theory that Shakespeare might not have written any of the works attributed to him. Obviously we should throw all those frauds in the garbage dump where they belong.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Female User Gallery

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: Fiction or non-fiction - it doesn't matter [Re: kotik]
    #5643369 - 05/17/06 09:39 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

:lol: I'm trying to figure out how to reply to all of these little boxes. I'll re-box, bolding your replies in each.


Quote:

It doesn't matter when you pan out the view.
This statement pretty much explains a difference in perspective.  To me, this statement is too generic and abstract to contain any meaningful truths or information.  The same reason I see paint splattered on a canvas and I don't recognize art sometimes I guess.




That statement only served to explain why and how some see the difference not to matter so much.  When your face is two feet away from a door, a little nick in it at eye level matters. When you are 100 feet back from the door, you don't even notice the nick anymore When 10,000 feet away from the door, the door itself becomes pretty insignificant to the grander view of things.

Just because a door has a nick/flaw in it doesn't mean the whole door is useless.

Do you want to spend your life anally nitpicking at minor nicks and flaws while missing out on the grander view of thingsor kicking back relaxed enjoying the grander view of things missing out on the tiny nicks and flaws that really don't matter from there?

Yes, it was about perspective and choice and why some choose the latter related to this topic.

Spore wants to nit pick over if a book was properly labeled, non fiction, fiction, or autobiography.  :confused: Does  a nick in a door render it useless? NO. Neither does the subject category a book is labeled under make the contents of a book useless.

What are you going to do if you find a bit of fiction in a book categorized under non fiction by the publisher. Are you going to say, "OH! :mad2: This author is being dishonest and is now uncredible and not worth reading. I advise everyone not to buy the book and if you already have it, throw it in the trash."

That's ridiculous. If you want to argue in defence of mental neurosis and extreme irrational behavior go right ahead.  :smile::thumbup:

Quote:

Everything that will happen in the world today was fiction yesterday.
I disagree.  Tomorrow is simply today's anticipations. Yesterday is a memory of an experience.  Nothing mentioned is fiction, I would like you to explain that further.




Anything that you believe will happen tomorrow is all in your imagination at this point. Same stuff fiction is made of.

Yesterdays happenings in the physical world were already realized-non fiction.

Yesterday was the tomorrow of two days ago.

And just because something was realized yesterday, doesn't mean it's forever etched in concrete. I realized a new flower bloom yesterday. It was really truly and honestly there. I even have a picture of it to prove it to you.

Now today, its gone. :shrug: Does that mean I must've photo shopped a fake picture of a flower? Does it mean I was lying about seeing and smelling it? Did I just make up the experience in my imagination?

Quote:

Today, it is non fiction and much will be recorded as facts of what came to be true on the day may 14, 2006.
still, 100% lost.  Perhaps you could explain your own personal definition of "fiction" for me.  To me, fiction means fabrication, abstraction, fantasy, actually, something much like the very first statement I quoted above.  To me, that represents fiction more than past or future events.




We are using the same definition of fiction. Prove tomorrow to me? You can't. If you tried too today, your attempt at it would fall somewhere under what you described as fiction.

Prove to me what you ate for lunch last Thursday. Whatever you ate was really there and you really ate it and its a fact of truth to you. Prove it to me. Any attempt you make at doing so I could say falls somewhere under your definition of fiction and you can't defend yourself with the truth because it's already gone.

Is it honest or truthful of me to call you a liar and fraud because you can't prove it to me now?

Again, try to pin every cliam down as fact or fiction, true or false, with absolute permanence and assuredly, to stand for all of time, and you will go mad or at least appear mad crazy to others.

Quote:

Yesterday, on May 13 2006 it was all just a pipe dream, a possibility, a probability, in the imagination of the mind-fiction.
Again, I would beg to differ on this.  Your views are now turning more metaphysical than physical.  A problem I have with that is metaphysics represents poetry compared to writing a dictionary.  The dictionary clearly outlines facts.  A poem can use the same words, but depending on context they can transform meaning completely.




Are you sure of what forum you read the original post in? Philosophy and Spirituality. The post was about books of Philosophical/Spiritual teachings such as those of Castaneda (which I know is what spawned this post).

We're not talking about literature like Popular Mechanics Magazine or Medical Journals on how to perform Neurosurgery. If we were, and spore said he read an article claiming that grape jelly could be substituted for motor oil, I would understand his post. If he said he read an article that claimed you can ram a kitchen fork into the back of your head to cure Parkinson's disease, I would understand his post.

We are talking about books people read to enhance and empower their lives philosophically and spiritually.

Quote:

Consider how fictional our world today would look to someone tens, hundreds and thousands of years back in time. What they would see is the truth of today.
you mention it would appear fictional.  that is much different from what IS fictional, like your own take on what people thousands of years ago would be thinking.  You fabricated that mentality, so it is infinitely more fictional than the actual perspective on a futuristic society.




How so? I wasn't talking about bringing someone from 1000 years ago into today. I was talking about being able to go back in time and tell someone about what todays world looks like. I don't have to fabricate the mentality. If some dude on the street walked up to you and said, "I am from the future year 3025. We have blah blah and can do blah blah" It would all sound like science fiction to you and it would also really be science fiction to you today. Not for the guy from the year 3025.


Quote:

Who is to say that what imagination beholds is not the probabilities of what may be in the future, showing itself to us on the screens of our minds?
i agree.  imagination = future.  however that doesn't mean any kid with fingerpaints and a positive attitude is going to cure cancer.  you need to understand your tools.




Your analogy doesn't fit. Someone who in their imagination happens to see a way for preventing the formation of cancer cells with their understanding of biology could bring the cure to realization in the future with what he saw and realized in his imaginative mind first. I'm thinking of how Einstien imagined riding on a light particle and new insight and discoveries came to him.

Quote:

If one tries to keep the non fiction and fiction isolated from each other, nothing will ever become of anything.
generic, false statement.  always avoid absolutes.




Ding Ding Ding Ding in the end, he gets it! :laugh: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Non fiction and fiction should not be treated like two isolated absolutes if you want to keep with the truths of reality. That's the whole point of all I have been saying here. Yeesh!:rolleyes:  j/k:lol:

:peace: :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Offlinekotik
fuckingsuperhero
 User Gallery
Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 06/29/04
Posts: 3,531
Last seen: 2 years, 21 days
Re: Fiction or non-fiction - it doesn't matter [Re: Silversoul]
    #5643428 - 05/17/06 09:54 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Interestingly enough, I heard a theory that Shakespeare might not have written any of the works attributed to him. Obviously we should throw all those frauds in the garbage dump where they belong.




I find it interesting too. The most convincing argument is that Francis Bacon wrote most of the material (among other people) and that the actual William S. was illiterate, and could not write legibally.

jiggy: give me a minute to work on that.. haha. Your approach is very akward, and I have problems putting your comments into a reasonable context for my own understanding.


--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


Edited by kotik (05/17/06 09:56 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineSporetacus
Swashbuckler

Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 152
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
Re: Fiction or non-fiction - it doesn't matter [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5643479 - 05/17/06 10:09 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Seems then you probably agree with the administration that the fiction put out regarding psychedelics and cannabis is not damaging and should be labeled as facts.


--------------------
I'm Sporetacus!


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Female User Gallery

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: Fiction or non-fiction - it doesn't matter [Re: kotik]
    #5643532 - 05/17/06 10:24 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Kotik said:

The world needs more scientists than philosophers. Everyone is a philosopher, because it is arguably much easier than being a scientist.




Are you kidding with us? Every child and human being is a natural scientist. Watch a 3 year old at play. He will be exploring, testing, discovering, and asking shit loads of curious questions.

I suppose you consider the herds and drones running around in the rat race and getting into debt to keep up with the Joneses, living under the sound philosophy and spiritual insight they are easily innovating for themselves?  :confused:

Humans dropped atomic bombs unto thousands of children and you say the world needs more scientists and less philosophers? :what:

How are scientists going to solve the conflict and mess in the middle east?

Do you really think we need more scientists figuring out how to make more prescription drugs to mask symptoms while adding undesirable side effects to the original problem? :foreheadslap:

If I see one more commercial asking me if I am tired when I wake up and then telling me, I need to take newly formulated zortax for it , I'm going to.........laugh as usual, when they read off,
"side effects may include, dizziness, nausea, diarrhea, fatigue:what: and erectile dysfunction."

This world has gone lop sided dude and its not in favor of sound philosphies and insighting into non invasive problem resolution.


:peace: :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Offlinekotik
fuckingsuperhero
 User Gallery
Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 06/29/04
Posts: 3,531
Last seen: 2 years, 21 days
Re: Fiction or non-fiction - it doesn't matter [Re: kotik]
    #5643544 - 05/17/06 10:26 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

had to bold a few things instead of quoting:

Quote:

When your face is two feet away from a door, a little nick in it at eye level matters. When you are 100 feet back from the door, you don't even notice the nick anymore When 10,000 feet away from the door, the door itself becomes pretty insignificant to the grander view of things.

Just because a door has a nick/flaw in it doesn't mean the whole door is useless.




again, wonderful insight, but this does not apply.  you are describing perspective in the same reality.  lets bring this discussion to the assumption we are in the 3rd dimension, and proven scientific "facts" outweight what I would personally call wishes / fantasy.

Quote:

Do you want to spend your life anally nitpicking at minor nicks and flaws while missing out on the grander view of thingsor kicking back relaxed enjoying the grander view of things missing out on the tiny nicks and flaws that really don't matter from there?





personal preference you mean?  I am somewhat of a reverse-engineer at heart, so yes I like to tinker with things and question them to exhaustion, it's just my nature.  The fact that you would rather kick back and relax and just say that "nicks and flaws" "really don't matter" just shows that we are coming from two different mindsets.

Quote:

What are you going to do if you find a bit of fiction in a book categorized under non fiction by the publisher. Are you going to say, "OH! This author is being dishonest and is now uncredible and not worth reading. I advise everyone not to buy the book and if you already have it, throw it in the trash."




nope, won't catch me saying that.  won't catch me making such rash assumptions either.
Quote:


That's ridiculous. If you want to argue in defence of mental neurosis and extreme irrational behavior go right ahead.




so you are now arguing against my hypothetical answer to your rhetorical question?  now what is ridiculous?  Honestly, this has gotten way off topic.

Quote:

Anything that you believe will happen tomorrow is all in your imagination at this point. Same stuff fiction is made of.




agreed 100%.  however there is a difference between someone that believes they will win the lottery, and someone that believes if they set their alarm it will go off in the morning.  each require a certain degree of assumption, however one is based on "facts."  the experiences you ahve personally gone through, as opposed to those you fantasize about.  this is the very heart of fact vs fiction, and i am extending it (foolishly, i admit) to science vs philosophy.  but I would fold if I had to defend that last part, so please accept it as hyperbole.

Quote:

Yesterday was the tomorrow of two days ago.




can you hear my one hand clapping at the profoundness of this statement?  :rolleyes:

Quote:

I realized a new flower bloom yesterday. It was really truly and honestly there. I even have a picture of it to prove it to you.
Now today, its gone. Does that mean I must've photo shopped a fake picture of a flower? Does it mean I was lying about seeing and smelling it? Did I just make up the experience in my imagination?




no, not at all.  again, assuming my answers then arguing with them.  you are arguing with yourself.  if you see a flower bloom, it would be reasonable to make assumptions (which are the same stuff fiction is made of) that you could see it bloom again, or at least be able to take that dead flower into a lab and have the dna documented.

now however, if you told me that the flower bloomed and you took it, but it vanished into thin air after it wilted...  then i would probably tell you whatever you were selling, i didn't want any and continue on my way.

We are using the same definition of fiction. Prove tomorrow to me? You can't. If you tried too today, your attempt at it would fall somewhere under what you described as fiction.

heh, the beauty of that challenge would be to say "give me 24 hours and I'll have proof."  Proof of tomorrow is not a correct way to look at it either.  Time is simply a measurement of events, based on the movements of stars and etc.  That I can prove, but to prove the concept of tomorrow would be like me asking you to prove "3:24 am" to me.

Prove to me what you ate for lunch last Thursday.

this could be done easily.  I will not go into detail, for reasons I hope are obvious to you and everyone else.

Again, try to pin every cliam down as fact or fiction, true or false, with absolute permanence and assuredly, to stand for all of time, and you will go mad or at least appear mad crazy to others.

again, agreed.  however true vs false is not fact vs fiction.  true / false are both facts.  if you can agree to that, i believe you may be able to see where i am coming from.  It would be hard for me to agree otherwise.

"We're not talking about literature like Popular Mechanics Magazine or Medical Journals on how to perform Neurosurgery."

i beg to differ.  I consider those to be fact.  And I think that if more people understood the facts in those publications as opposed to every character in every star wars movie, or harry potter books, or etc. (please don't think I'm bashing either) then we would all be much better off.  However that is opinion, not fact.

Quote:

If some dude on the street walked up to you and said, "I am from the future year 3025. We have blah blah and can do blah blah" It would all sound like science fiction to you and it would also really be science fiction to you today. Not for the guy from the year 3025.




there would be logical, rational questions if this were truly the case.  Im quite familiar with John Titor ( http://www.johntitor.com/ ) which sounds much like what you are talking about.

Quote:

Someone who in their imagination happens to see a way for preventing the formation of cancer cells with their understanding of biology could bring the cure to realization in the future with what he saw and realized in his imaginative mind first.




right, so the premise is that their imagination is based on FACTS learned in biology, and not just some random dream about talking shoes or the like.  If a biologist had a dream the next night about talking shoes, would that have as much credit?  rhetorical.

Quote:

I'm thinking of how Einstien imagined riding on a light particle and new insight and discoveries came to him.

Ding Ding Ding Ding in the end, he gets it!




i find the concept of you jumping into a late einsteins' mind and understanding his insight as borderline offensive.

Quote:

Non fiction and fiction should not be treated like two isolated absolutes if you want to keep with the truths of reality.




agreed.

Quote:

Yeesh! j/k




:thumbup:  :cool:


--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Offlinekotik
fuckingsuperhero
 User Gallery
Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 06/29/04
Posts: 3,531
Last seen: 2 years, 21 days
Re: Fiction or non-fiction - it doesn't matter [Re: kotik]
    #5643555 - 05/17/06 10:28 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Humans dropped atomic bombs unto thousands of children and you say the world needs more scientists and less philosophers?

yes yes yes yes.

yes.


--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Female User Gallery

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: Fiction or non-fiction - it doesn't matter [Re: Sporetacus]
    #5643564 - 05/17/06 10:30 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Sporetacus said:
Seems then you probably agree with the administration that the fiction put out regarding psychedelics and cannabis is not damaging and should be labeled as facts.





Was your post HONESTLY referring to published literature on the safety of psychedelic and cannabis drug use?

That would change things.

Lets get clear on what type of literature and for what use your post was addressing.

If you weren't referring to authors like Castaneda, Deepak Chopra, Plato, Neitche, Alan Watts and Apostle Thomas, would you please make it clear now what you were referring too, so we are not off topic and discussing something out of context.

:peace: :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineSporetacus
Swashbuckler

Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 152
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
Re: Fiction or non-fiction - it doesn't matter [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5643589 - 05/17/06 10:36 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Lets get clear on what type of literature and for what use your post was addressing.




I gotcha. Now you want to arbitrarily assign to which authors and sources and subjects the truth is valid and end up sounding like a lawyer or Washingtonian politician. Now you will enter a never-ending morass.

My approach is clean and simple with no sub-clauses.


--------------------
I'm Sporetacus!


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Jump to top Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract, Kratom Powder For Sale   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds, Bulk Cannabis Seeds, Feminized Cannabis Seeds, High THC Strains, USA West Coast Strains   Bridgetown Botanicals Bridgetown Botanicals, CBD Capsules, CBD Edibles, CBD Oils, CBD Topicals   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder, Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Carlos Castaneda Kremlin 2,217 12 09/16/02 01:40 PM
by Amoeba665
* Carlos Castaneda, thoughts anyone?
( 1 2 3 all )
Cosmic_Monkey 7,061 47 07/18/10 06:21 PM
by OrgoneConclusion
* castaneda
( 1 2 all )
Traveller 3,918 28 11/16/01 12:56 PM
by Traveller
* Lynn V. Andrews (female Castaneda)
( 1 2 all )
Swami 3,171 31 07/13/04 09:46 PM
by Huehuecoyotl
* castaneda "fans"? please read... gedezia 893 12 07/04/03 10:39 PM
by CockyMandrill
* Salvia according to Castaneda peruvian spark 2,237 18 04/11/03 04:39 PM
by CockyMandrill
* Wasson Reviews Castaneda's 1st - 4 Books mjshroomer 1,027 4 04/25/05 09:47 AM
by mjshroomer
* Carlos Castaneda
( 1 2 all )
starptv23 4,529 34 07/26/05 07:16 AM
by Huehuecoyotl

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
3,583 topic views. 0 members, 1 guests and 4 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Print Topic | ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2022 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.043 seconds spending 0.011 seconds on 19 queries.