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OfflineSporetacus
Swashbuckler

Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 152
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
Fiction or non-fiction - it doesn't matter
    #5639610 - 05/16/06 11:34 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

IMHO there are way too many posts saying it doesn't 'really' matter if Christ raised people from the dead or Castaneda jumped off a cliff. It is ALL allegory.

If these things were unimportant then they would not have been mentioned. If they were false then they should not have been mentioned and comingling fact with fiction puts the entire account into question.

The TRUTH (not The FICTION) shall set you free.


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I'm Sporetacus!


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OfflineEquilibriuM
dream stalker

Registered: 07/17/05
Posts: 2,323
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
Re: Fiction or non-fiction - it doesn't matter [Re: Sporetacus]
    #5639635 - 05/16/06 11:40 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Who can tell us the truth? and why will we believe them?


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HELP!!!!!!!!!


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Fiction or non-fiction - it doesn't matter [Re: Sporetacus]
    #5639743 - 05/16/06 11:59 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Da troot shal set you fee. :thumbup:

Sorry I was eating when I wrote this. :blush:


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineSkeptikos
GeneticallyEngineeredBonobo

Registered: 01/15/06
Posts: 145
Loc: Rome, west side
Last seen: 13 years, 13 days
Re: Fiction or non-fiction - it doesn't matter [Re: Sporetacus]
    #5639791 - 05/17/06 12:07 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Nothing really matters
Anyone can see
Nothing really matters - nothing really matters to me.


--------------------
Sincerely,

Skeptikos


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 10,662
Loc: On the Border
Re: Fiction or non-fiction - it doesn't matter [Re: Sporetacus]
    #5639802 - 05/17/06 12:09 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Your getting the hang of this....if it is philosophy physical facts do not matter....the philosophy is the meat of it. I have found much valid philosophy in The Lord of the Rings which is admitted fiction. If we are talking science...give me fact. So why are there too many posts with this view? Is there a legal limit? I suppose you could call 911 and report it. In the end I do not care if Jesus ever got laid or if Castaneda tried BASE jumping without a chute.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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OfflineEquilibriuM
dream stalker

Registered: 07/17/05
Posts: 2,323
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
Re: Fiction or non-fiction - it doesn't matter [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #5639821 - 05/17/06 12:11 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)



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HELP!!!!!!!!!


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OfflineSporetacus
Swashbuckler

Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 152
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
Re: Fiction or non-fiction - it doesn't matter [Re: Icelander]
    #5639880 - 05/17/06 12:20 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Da troot shal set you fee.




*Spore gently wipes crumbs from Icey's lips*

Bedderer?


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I'm Sporetacus!


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OfflineSporetacus
Swashbuckler

Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 152
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
Re: Fiction or non-fiction - it doesn't matter [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #5639895 - 05/17/06 12:22 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

What about a book labeled NON-FICTION or biography or autobigraphy or history?


--------------------
I'm Sporetacus!


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
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Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 10,662
Loc: On the Border
Re: Fiction or non-fiction - it doesn't matter [Re: Sporetacus]
    #5639948 - 05/17/06 12:32 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

There are many books on science that purport to be objective fact, that bear little resemblance to it. Much history that is taught in schools is patently false. Our world leaders lie to their populations and change stories and no one even notices. I see these as more important issues than the validity of philosophy books. At least Castaneda's books were later labeled as fiction by his publisher to minimize controversy.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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OfflineSporetacus
Swashbuckler

Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 152
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
Re: Fiction or non-fiction - it doesn't matter [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #5640026 - 05/17/06 12:47 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

To teach about navigating reality, why not include an actual story unless it is to boost one's ego or make the story more intriguing? This shows weakness on the author's part.

Telling me a fictional story points to nothing at all.


--------------------
I'm Sporetacus!


Edited by Sporetacus (05/17/06 01:16 AM)


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OfflineEquilibriuM
dream stalker

Registered: 07/17/05
Posts: 2,323
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
Re: Fiction or non-fiction - it doesn't matter [Re: Sporetacus]
    #5640074 - 05/17/06 12:54 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Whos to say whats real or fake?


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HELP!!!!!!!!!


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
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Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 10,662
Loc: On the Border
Re: Fiction or non-fiction - it doesn't matter [Re: Sporetacus]
    #5640079 - 05/17/06 12:55 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

"Telling me a fictional story points to nothing at all."
That is because you are an individual. I am not made this way. I see truth in many obviously declared works of fiction. Fiction can make one think.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
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Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Fiction or non-fiction - it doesn't matter [Re: Sporetacus]
    #5640160 - 05/17/06 01:08 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Sporetacus said:
The TRUTH (not The FICTION) shall set you free.



fact =/= truth


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InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
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Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Fiction or non-fiction - it doesn't matter [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #5640166 - 05/17/06 01:09 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
"Telling me a fictional story points to nothing at all."
That is because you are an individual. I am not made this way. I see truth in many obviously declared works of fiction. Fiction can make one think.



Indeed. Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy was a revelation to me, and it certainly doesn't matter that Arthur Dent doesn't exist.


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OfflineSkeptikos
GeneticallyEngineeredBonobo

Registered: 01/15/06
Posts: 145
Loc: Rome, west side
Last seen: 13 years, 13 days
Re: Fiction or non-fiction - it doesn't matter [Re: Silversoul]
    #5640178 - 05/17/06 01:11 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

What does =/= mean? I am familiar with != (not equal).


--------------------
Sincerely,

Skeptikos


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InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Fiction or non-fiction - it doesn't matter [Re: Skeptikos]
    #5640185 - 05/17/06 01:12 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Skeptikos said:
What does =/= mean? I am familiar with != (not equal).



Different ways of expressing the same symbol, which is not found in its true form on a keyboard.


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InvisibleLakefingers

Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 6,440
Loc: mumuland
Re: Fiction or non-fiction - it doesn't matter [Re: EquilibriuM]
    #5640576 - 05/17/06 02:54 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Nimis?


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InvisibleLakefingers

Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 6,440
Loc: mumuland
Re: Fiction or non-fiction - it doesn't matter [Re: Sporetacus]
    #5640586 - 05/17/06 02:58 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Sporetacus said:
...
The TRUTH (not The FICTION) shall set you free.




That might be true. But, in relation to the rest of your post and the other posts: truth never was, is nor shall be "fact" or "facts". What is true extends and lies beyond that which is corroborated by mere facts.

With facts we can enable knowing, but we cannot know the origin of facts through facts. To think that we can know the origin of facts (i.e. the grounds of truth) through facts is to rely on the most naive presuppositions of knowing -- this is equivalent to thinking that science can understand itself or question itself, which it cannot because it presupposes its own plausibility just as facts invoke a way of thinking and presuppose their own plausability.

With truth we can understand the origin of facts and, even, the origin of truth itself. At this point the revelations of fiction and fact are blurred, transcended and DIScovered.


Edited by Lakefingers (05/17/06 03:05 AM)


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Offlinekotik
fuckingsuperhero
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Registered: 06/29/04
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Re: Fiction or non-fiction - it doesn't matter [Re: Lakefingers]
    #5640903 - 05/17/06 07:40 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

thanks to science we have found that simply discussing something, or being "philisophical" usually leads you far away from the path.


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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InvisibleLakefingers

Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 6,440
Loc: mumuland
Re: Fiction or non-fiction - it doesn't matter [Re: kotik]
    #5640911 - 05/17/06 07:50 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

kotik said:
thanks to science we have found that simply discussing something, or being "philisophical" usually leads you far away from the path.




I disagree with your statement. Being philosophical opens one to the foundations of science, facts, truth, concepts, activities, etc.

Science is methodologically incapable of understanding what motivates and enables its ability to produce facts and is therefore blind to its own foundationalist worldview.

Science presupposes an entire rationalism (a presupposition of the justification of *fact*, or the cult of fact) which leads one exponentially farther away from the truth the more one readily one believes that the methods of science reveal some essential truth (i.e. something beyond the factual).

To illustrate: your statement about science cannot be analyzed through science or fact, because the statement presupposes the rationalistic framework where science and fact are legitimized means of reasoning. Therefore your statements says nothing about the nature of science, but only invokes it. E.g.: any narcissist can say something nice about himself/herself, but no narcissist can speak about himself/herself free from their narcissism.


Edited by Lakefingers (05/17/06 07:59 AM)


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