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OfflineJalruza
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Re: Is this a good computer course to study? [Re: TheCow]
    #5756788 - 06/16/06 10:18 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Looks like i will go and do this course. :smile: I just have a couple of questions.

Second semester we get to choose between various IT streams, im edging more towards programming stream, there we get to learn C++ and Java. However it seems a lot of companies are looking for someone with strong databases background now days. What i want to know is what would be the best path to take, should i study programming in university and then do some self study, read some books on databases, or do the other way around and choose to study SQL and other stuff in depth and then self study C++ and Java?

I am still confised what kind of job am i gonna get with this master. Im hoping i would get on board some good company where they will give me further on the job training. But otherwise, im thinking to brush up my skills after i finish master, do some self study.

Just what kind of work do graduates with a masters degree can get now days?? I hear computer industry is pretty weak in US at the moment, lots of peeps with uni degrees that cant get a job, is that true? Its certanly not the case here in the UK and in Australia where i want to get a job.

And whats with Indian programmers??? Is it true theyre producing oven ready programmers by thousands in there? So what, they cant get a job  becuase they need a visa ha ha!


--------------------
Time keeps ticking and running away
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Too cool to mention well that's the intention
But some of us too dame blind to see
Jesus is the King Volume I
Jesus is the King Volume II
Shroomery MSN club
I'm talking to aliens!
Volcano Vap and Brain Chakras
Hilary Duff!!
:gethigh:


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Offlinetriple_
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Registered: 02/08/06
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Re: Is this a good computer course to study? [Re: Jalruza]
    #5756922 - 06/16/06 11:13 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

In my opinion, it's easier to study database management systems at university and do Java/C++ on your own. That's just because I find it easier to pick up programming concepts than I do relational database concepts.

If you just want to be a software developer (or similar), it isn't imperative that you know everything about database management systems but still have some indepth SQL knowledge, and that's fairly easy to learn in your own time, so you could consider studying OO programming at a university and then learn SQL on your own, which is super easy if you've got the technical, visual mind.

But if you think you might want to do database administration or warehousing or Oracle Forms programming, learn all about relational databases at university because it'd be so boring to learn it on your own time. Especially when you get into things like priority, scheduling and mutual exclusion for transactional SQL.

And yeah, Indian programmers seem to be taking all of the programming jobs in Australia. Big companies are outsourcing to India because they work so damn cheap, but in my opinion, end up with poorer quality software. It's a big problem here, but there is still an abundance of programming jobs if you look for jobs that don't just require Java or C++ but also skills in somewhat esoteric products/languages.

So if you want to find a job in Australia, my advice is to make sure you take the time to learn more than is taught to you in university. This will put you ahead of any other graduates you're up against, but also filter off a fair chunk of the cheap, Indian programmers.


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OfflineJalruza
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Re: Is this a good computer course to study? [Re: triple_]
    #5757041 - 06/16/06 11:49 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Hey Triple, thanks for input.

In my case database is really not my thing, I find it really boring. But for some bizarre reason all internet jobs in UK ask that you know SQL “in depth” so I was thinking about studying it for a while. We will study databases in first semester anyway but then we have option to choose database/programming stream in second semester.

As you said I don’t really want to work with databases so I will learn a bit in the first semester and then maybe study up after graduation as I need it. Maybe buy a book on SQL?

Quote:


So if you want to find a job in Australia, my advice is to make sure you take the time to learn more than is taught to you in university.




Im already thinking about visiting 2 parallel streams at the same time! Choosing programming then popping in to lectures and workshops for databases and internet programming… I wonder if I can do that… lol.


Your from Australia, whats the IT industry outlook there these days? What kind of jobs do you guys have?

To be honest, I am starting to realise that I am panicking way too much. First of all I have more than a decade of in depth computer experience and knowledge, when I was in high school, peeps used to study dirty little example languages like pascal and comal… I was already armed with visual basic and C++ compliers and used to bring programs to school to show how different things can be done in different languages. So yeah I know a lot. I guess all I really need is a paper that states I have a masters degree. After that I would simply need to find a company that is willing to train me further.


So what more can you tell me about Australian IT industry? Because that is where I want to work. What was the main career website ? www.careerone.com.au right? Some Australian guy I met few months ago said there is another better website??

The Indians. There like Mexican in the US! Come across the border like they own the place and start taking jobs, build houses … lol


--------------------
Time keeps ticking and running away
And It's taking us fast to a brand new free dimension
Too cool to mention well that's the intention
But some of us too dame blind to see
Jesus is the King Volume I
Jesus is the King Volume II
Shroomery MSN club
I'm talking to aliens!
Volcano Vap and Brain Chakras
Hilary Duff!!
:gethigh:


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Offlinetriple_
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Registered: 02/08/06
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Re: Is this a good computer course to study? [Re: Jalruza]
    #5757479 - 06/16/06 02:01 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Jalruza said:
Your from Australia, whats the IT industry outlook there these days? What kind of jobs do you guys have?




IT in Australia has been going down a fair bit in the last few years, and it's still going down, and with companies constantly outsourcing all their programming, it'll keep going down.

The other problem is that a lot of graduates come out of university and while they may have been able to cram in as much information about a subject and remember it for long enough to pass the exam...a lot of graduates just don't have a natural IT edge and thus the quality of work that they produce is poor. So a lot of companies would rather not risk that who they hire might be one of these people. This is what's making graduate positions harder and harder to get. My brother is in his final year of his course, and has had no luck finding graduate positions, even with a year of work experience at the defence force :/

Quote:

So what more can you tell me about Australian IT industry? Because that is where I want to work. What was the main career website ? www.careerone.com.au right? Some Australian guy I met few months ago said there is another better website??




Seek is the other major good career finding web site. However, I've never gotten any jobs from these sites, and you'll find that in Australia (not sure about other countries), about 75% of your job opportunities will come from people you meet in the industry rather than these web sites and newspapers. However, I also know people who have picked up many positions from websites, so it's definitely worth keeping an eye on.

If you want to find out more, have a read of this forum and the threads within. There's a fair amount of information there that will help you get a little insight into Australian IT, if you can sift through a lot of the bullshit posts ;>


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OfflineJalruza
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Re: Is this a good computer course to study? [Re: triple_]
    #5791994 - 06/26/06 10:11 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Ok i got another question.

Is it worth doing this course at all? Or would it be a better alternative to self study the whole thing?

As i said i already know shit load. The MSs course essentially teaches me programming, SQL and a bit of networking and systems design... I could buy a book or two on SQL, i could download a ton of warez, C++, MS VB, Studio 8 and shit and do it all my self!

The question comes up, will i get employed? As i mention i already got a business degree, on my CV i write it as "BA degree in Business WITH computing" I didnt study computing officially in uni but i write it like that anyway lol. So i guess what i want to know is will i be able to get a job if i say i got a degree in Biz with Computing?

On the other hand i got 15,000 dollars to fund the course fees for this master, so really, i would be getting this tuition for "free" if you think about it - i got the money now, and i dont repay it until i get a job yeah. So i can spend a year studying in uni for "free" , why pass ? ANd i can get official MSs degree this way.


--------------------
Time keeps ticking and running away
And It's taking us fast to a brand new free dimension
Too cool to mention well that's the intention
But some of us too dame blind to see
Jesus is the King Volume I
Jesus is the King Volume II
Shroomery MSN club
I'm talking to aliens!
Volcano Vap and Brain Chakras
Hilary Duff!!
:gethigh:


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OfflineSeussA
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Registered: 04/27/01
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Re: Is this a good computer course to study? [Re: Jalruza]
    #5793156 - 06/26/06 04:55 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Hmmmm... you are in a good position. You have a degree, which is the big thing that you are going to need to get an interview. If I am an employer worth working for, I am going to realize that most "school trained programmers" are not worth the paper their diploma is printed on. You tend to get one of two extremes, people that know how to program but have no idea what a clean, elegant, coherent design is and then you have people that can design, but do not understand the complexities of implementation. (Just because a matrix multiple looks nice on paper does not mean it translates to efficient code.) If you can land yourself somewhere between the two extremes, then you are set.

How good are you at learning something on your own? The real trick to survival in the computer industry is being able to learn something new all the time. If you are like me and love to learn, then this is the field for you.

There are a few base fundamentals that I don't think I would try to learn on my own. In a traditional computer science course these would be "data structures" classes. However, you need to know the basics of a programming language before you worry about data structures. I would find out what languages a local university uses for their data structures class. I would teach myself the language, then take a semester or two of data structures and possibly a theory of operating systems class as well. A good assembly class is worth its weight in gold, but most of them are not good. A bad assembly class is worse than pointless, adding confusion. Assuming that you are going to get bad assembly classes, look to the EE dept for a graduate level computer architecture class. Talk to the prof that is going to teach it and see if you will survive it or not. Hearer if you are worried.

While this is going on, play around with an open source project or two. Learn another language. Good ones to know that are all pretty close are C/C++/Java/C# and PHP. When you start on PHP, pick up SQL as well... they go hand in hand. Remember, SQL is one thing while database design is something else. Just because you can build tables and queries, a good database programmer you are not. If you are going to go through all the hassle of learning SQL (it isn't hard at all), please pick up a book on database design and learn about table normalization.

Now you are set. You have real school credit in comp sci. You have experience working outside of class on open source projects. You have experience working outside of class learning new languages. You have a degree. You, I will hire and you I will spend money to train. (Why spend your own money when the company you work for will foot the bill...)

And if you can't find work, you are in a great position to snag a CS masters. You have all of the basics down and can focus on grad level classes without worrying about keeping up while trying to learn the basics. You will now be in a much better position to judge what you want to do versus what various courses have to offer. No more guess work on where that money is going.


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OfflineJalruza
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Re: Is this a good computer course to study? [Re: Seuss]
    #5794737 - 06/27/06 01:51 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Interesting, thanks!


--------------------
Time keeps ticking and running away
And It's taking us fast to a brand new free dimension
Too cool to mention well that's the intention
But some of us too dame blind to see
Jesus is the King Volume I
Jesus is the King Volume II
Shroomery MSN club
I'm talking to aliens!
Volcano Vap and Brain Chakras
Hilary Duff!!
:gethigh:


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OfflineJalruza
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Re: Is this a good computer course to study? [Re: Jalruza]
    #6213306 - 10/26/06 08:36 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

...


Edited by Jalruza (01/27/07 12:02 PM)


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