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Jalruza
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Is this a good computer course to study?
#5637065 - 05/16/06 11:24 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Masters degree with several paths to choose from. We get to study programming, internet programming, databases, data comms, networking and other stuff. Undergraduate degree is needed to study this course but not in computer science.
-------------------- Time keeps ticking and running away And It's taking us fast to a brand new free dimension Too cool to mention well that's the intention But some of us too dame blind to see Jesus is the King Volume I Jesus is the King Volume II Shroomery MSN club I'm talking to aliens! Volcano Vap and Brain Chakras Hilary Duff!!
Edited by Jalruza (06/16/06 10:22 AM)
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Jalruza
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Re: Is this a good computer course to study? [Re: Jalruza]
#5637081 - 05/16/06 11:27 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Also i probably better email them and ask whats included.
Ask them if i get a chance to study SQL, C++, Java, .NET ..... what else?
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Seuss
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Re: Is this a good computer course to study? [Re: Jalruza]
#5637317 - 05/16/06 12:46 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Without knowing what the courses cover, it is difficult to say. There are also two different types of computer science, as I found out the hard way. Some schools work primarily with writing programs while other schools work primarily with computational theory. The above listing looks like a programming outline rather than a theory outline. There are many things missing, which gives me pause:
Operations research course Logic course Discrete mathematics course Filesystems course Operating systems course Algorithms course(s) (perhaps their Systems Analysis and Design) Compiler and translator course Computational mathematics course Parallel processing course Object oriented design course Graphics course (writing graphics "libraries", not using photoshop) Masters thesis and defense
I am probably missing a few as well. I'm not saying the outline provided is bad, or wrong... but it seems to be oriented towards programming, which really isn't what a comp sci masters is about. I expect a comp sci master candidate to know the theory of computing inside and out; to know that one can sort N elements in linear time on a parallel machine with N^2 nodes, that a perfect hash has a linear lookup and that a minimal perfect hash has no excess space, the difference between an LL(1) grammar and an LALR(1) grammar, the bounding complexity of matrix multiplication, etc.
> Ask them if i get a chance to study SQL, C++, Java, .NET ..... what else?
Good example. I expect an undergrad to know how to write SQL statements to query a database. I expect a grad student to know how to normalize relational database tables along with the difference between the six normal types in relational database design. Any bonehead can write an SQL query, but it takes talent to normalize a database schema.
You really should learn assembly. Without understanding assembly it is difficult to understand the performance versus complexity issues in higher level languages. For the same reason, you really should have a compiler course as well.
Everything in computer science is based upon logic and discrete math. Without a solid foundation in both, you will have trouble. You should know DeMorgan's laws off the top of your head.
Operations research is the application of computer programming to solve problems. If you were in a math class, it would be a course dedicated to solving word problems. There usually isn't much programming in these courses, just the theory of how a program would be created to solve a problem of a given form.
There are usually at least three algorithms courses. The first two typically deal with stacks, trees, tris, lists, queues, sorts, searches, etc, while the third is typically an analysis of complexity class.
An operating systems class typically discusses the functional components that make up an operating system. Things like virtual memory and memory management techniques. Resource tracking, utilization, starvation and deadlocks.
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TheCow
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Re: Is this a good computer course to study? [Re: Seuss]
#5637671 - 05/16/06 02:05 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Wait this is a masters program as in an accredited masters program? Seems odd they would give a 12 month course in 'computing' then give out masters.
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triple_
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Re: Is this a good computer course to study? [Re: TheCow]
#5638782 - 05/16/06 06:30 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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In my opinion, to get the most out of a computer science course, you'd need to study relational database management systems, low-level computer and OS architecture, real-time programming, data structures and algorithms, data communications and security, modelling and design (UML) and mathematics.
As for what languages would be most advantageous to learn, you should learn at least one object-oriented language (Java, C++ or a .NET), one procedural languages (C), at least one scripting language (Perl, PHP, VBScript...whatever), a real-time language (like Ada) and a functional programming language (Scheme, Lisp or Haskell). Oh, and an assembly language. I guess (X)HTML/CSS would also help, but I hardly think that's worth wasting a semester at university to be taught (definitely the biggest waste of a semester for me last year).
I'm fortunate enough that I get to do all of the above, except learn a functional programming language, but I use my free-time for that
Edited by triple_ (05/16/06 06:32 PM)
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Jalruza
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Re: Is this a good computer course to study? [Re: triple_]
#5640823 - 05/17/06 03:56 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Thats the shit, you see i got a degree in business, so what this master doing it takes you with little previous experience, and in 12 month and 3 semesters you get MSs in computer science.
One might say it is a conversion course to computer science. I am under impression that master should be a follow on from a computer related degree. I.e. get a degree in CS and then do a master and study advanced computing. But here, there is no CS degree! So im puzzled just how practical this Master will be in real life.
Do you think it can give some employment probability after graduation? I'm thinking if a take the internet programming stream, by the time i graduate i should know enough Java and some C++ and SQL to work as a Java programmer?
-------------------- Time keeps ticking and running away And It's taking us fast to a brand new free dimension Too cool to mention well that's the intention But some of us too dame blind to see Jesus is the King Volume I Jesus is the King Volume II Shroomery MSN club I'm talking to aliens! Volcano Vap and Brain Chakras Hilary Duff!!
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Jalruza
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Re: Is this a good computer course to study? [Re: Jalruza]
#5640827 - 05/17/06 04:00 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Part of me wants to ditch my business degree and go do another 3 years in university studying CS for another degree... but i dont hvae the money for another 3 years, i barely get enough to pay for these 12 months!
What should I do, will this course get me a JOB I guess that is what i’m asking?
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supra
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Re: Is this a good computer course to study? [Re: Seuss]
#5641250 - 05/17/06 09:23 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Operations research course Logic course Discrete mathematics course Filesystems course Operating systems course Algorithms course(s) (perhaps their Systems Analysis and Design) Compiler and translator course Computational mathematics course Parallel processing course Object oriented design course
ive taken all of these courses in undergrad CS study at my university, its a Bachelor of Science in computing. There is also a Bachelor of Business Administration in computing, which sounds like where this would take you. Doesn't sound right to me that you could have a business degree and get a masters in a science field, the qualifications are way different, from a math based point of view.
In my demographic, the networking jobs would be the way to go, which you may be able to pick up on pretty easily even with a business degree. But if you really want to understand things, i would go for a bachelor first. In my studies I have learned: C++, SQL, VB, C, Java, IBM 3270 ASM, written our own compiler, direct linking loader, and translator, dormalized simple databases, which I still need practice in, it is pretty difficult, and I just finished my junior year this semester. My elective courses I take mainly in geology and networking. Geology because I love it, and networking, becasue it is probably where I will start off my career. Even though I would prefer something in the geology field.
peace
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Jalruza
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Re: Is this a good computer course to study? [Re: supra]
#5641468 - 05/17/06 10:57 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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what if i take that master and then top up it with microsoft qualifications from home such as this:
http://www.wavetech.co.uk/jsp/courses/courses.jsp?curr=9
?
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Seuss
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Re: Is this a good computer course to study? [Re: Jalruza]
#5641860 - 05/17/06 01:07 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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What field do you want to go into? What do you want to do with your business degree? (By field, be specific... what kind of work do you see yourself doing in a few years?)
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TheCow
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Re: Is this a good computer course to study? [Re: Jalruza]
#5642362 - 05/17/06 03:56 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Eh honestly youd probably be fine with this masters. Programming is really easy, learning C/C++ or Java takes almost no time. It is just experience you need with the languages which you can get in the rest of the 12 months. As far as math goes, the math doesn't go any higher really that basic algebra. It rarely gets into calculus so I wouldnt worry about the math. Unless you want to learn electrical engineering with that then I wouldnt worry about the math. CS is fairly math unintensive.
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supra
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Re: Is this a good computer course to study? [Re: TheCow]
#5643732 - 05/17/06 09:10 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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wow, not at my university, you have to take these math courses at minimum.
Plane Triginometry Analytic Geometry Calculus I - mainly derivitives Calculus II - mainly anti-derivitives
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TheCow
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Re: Is this a good computer course to study? [Re: supra]
#5643774 - 05/17/06 09:21 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Yea man thats barely math. Thats like highschool math. The CS people have to take up to vector calculus here, the engineering people take up Fourier Transforms/Complex analysis type of stuff partial derivatives and whatnot. But honestly CS people dont need to know that math, unless they are programming Mathematica or something or doing very specialized research. Maybe image processing stuff youd need to know FFT's and stuff of that nature but general programmers certainly dont need much math.
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ChuangTzu
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Re: Is this a good computer course to study? [Re: TheCow]
#5644344 - 05/17/06 11:32 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I was under the impression that computer science was completely different from what most people who study "computing" or whatever these days are studying. The former is devoted to hardware, algorithms, architectures, etc--the science of computation, and the latter to just making computers do useful things for people--writing programs/interfaces, administering databases, making webpages, etc. Computer science students are more likely to study C/assembly/Haskell and "computing" (or whatever) students are likely to study C++/Java/SQL...
Is there any truth to this?
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Jalruza
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Re: Is this a good computer course to study? [Re: Seuss]
#5645176 - 05/18/06 03:50 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said: What field do you want to go into? What do you want to do with your business degree? (By field, be specific... what kind of work do you see yourself doing in a few years?)
Im not sure, i guess i could see myself as a Java developer or c++ programmer i donno. What kinds of doors do you think this masters course will open for me?
As for my business degree i donno what to do with it at all rather than as a stepping stone to this master?
To be honest im already considering studying for another 3 year degree. I made some calculations last night and it seems that the tuition fees for one year of masters cost the same as 3 years in undergraduate study. So what gives, i donno what to take.
TheCow, if this course gonna get me a job say as a web java developer, i think i might just take it after all...
What will give me a higher chance of employment, this 12 month masters or 3 year degree?
I know degree will probably be slightly better, but if masters can get me a job too then i stick with it i guess.
-------------------- Time keeps ticking and running away And It's taking us fast to a brand new free dimension Too cool to mention well that's the intention But some of us too dame blind to see Jesus is the King Volume I Jesus is the King Volume II Shroomery MSN club I'm talking to aliens! Volcano Vap and Brain Chakras Hilary Duff!!
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Seuss
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Re: Is this a good computer course to study? [Re: Jalruza]
#5645290 - 05/18/06 06:11 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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You already have a degree, so don't worry about that side of things. Stick with a masters program rather than another undergrad degree.
As I said before, and as ChuangTzu reiterated, there is a difference between computer science and "programming". Any "real" comp sci program will teach the science of computing and treat programming as a neccessary evil. I have known comp sci master students that had no comp sci experience before they started their masters program. They ended up having to take a lot of undergrad classes to build a foundation, but were able to get a masters out of it.
I just don't see how somebody can go from nothing to the skill level of a masters student in a year without any previous experience. Most masters programs are around 30 hours of course work and very few grad students try to pull off 15 hours of grad level classes a semester. There is just too much material. Each course I listed in my previous post is a good three hours of credit, and some of them are really worth six hours.
Ignore the folks that claim you don't need math skills to be a good CS. Again, a comp sci is a researcher, not a programmer. Good math skills are a must. For my CS undergrad, I was required to take calc 1, calc 2, calc 3, differential equations, linear algebra, matrix algebra, discrete math, scientific statistics (non-calc based), engineering statistics (calc-based), and advanced statistics (derive the calc, horrid horrid class). That is 30 credit hours of math courses, an entire full time year! They didn't force us to take all of those courses because we would never use them.
If it were me, I would go for a masters, but I would be certain it was a real masters (accredited university) and I would avoid anywhere that tells me it won't be a bit harder for me than the others because of my educational background.
Another line of thought... take the above 12-month course thing, but keep expectations low. You are going to learn a lot of programming from the course they are offering, but it isn't really a comp sci program, in the traditional sense. After you finish it up, you will be pretty much caught up to most comp sci undergrads at a minimum. At that point, you can decide what to do... continue education, certifications, work, etc.
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triple_
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Re: Is this a good computer course to study? [Re: Seuss]
#5645430 - 05/18/06 07:58 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said: Ignore the folks that claim you don't need math skills to be a good CS. Again, a comp sci is a researcher, not a programmer. Good math skills are a must. For my CS undergrad, I was required to take calc 1, calc 2, calc 3, differential equations, linear algebra, matrix algebra, discrete math, scientific statistics (non-calc based), engineering statistics (calc-based), and advanced statistics (derive the calc, horrid horrid class). That is 30 credit hours of math courses, an entire full time year! They didn't force us to take all of those courses because we would never use them.
I agree with everything there. While you may not directly use the theorems and methods taught in advanced mathematics classes unless programming in a specialised area, the actual skill and thought process behind logically simplifying complex algebra expressions helps in computer science more than most people realise.
You'll find that good mathematicians make great programmers. Good mathematicians also tend to be very strong in functional programming more than anything else especially when it comes to grasping monadic and lambda expressions and things like recursion (and I mean more than your basic tail recursive functions).
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TheCow
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Re: Is this a good computer course to study? [Re: Seuss]
#5646826 - 05/18/06 03:49 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said: Ignore the folks that claim you don't need math skills to be a good CS. Again, a comp sci is a researcher, not a programmer. Good math skills are a must. For my CS undergrad, I was required to take calc 1, calc 2, calc 3, differential equations, linear algebra, matrix algebra, discrete math, scientific statistics (non-calc based), engineering statistics (calc-based), and advanced statistics (derive the calc, horrid horrid class). That is 30 credit hours of math courses, an entire full time year! They didn't force us to take all of those courses because we would never use them.
So you took calculus and linear algebra? Thats not much math, I wasnt trying to sit here jackin myself off but that just isnt much math. Im trying to make it sound more appealing to him, the only math he needs to know is some calculus and linear algebra depending on what he does. What do you mean matrix algebra, you are just obfuscating the math you took. The fact is that CS just isnt very much math. Ive taken 3 years of math, my CS friends took one. Therefore the masters program should be fine if you dont know a good deal of math. Geesh.
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Seuss
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Re: Is this a good computer course to study? [Re: TheCow]
#5649151 - 05/19/06 05:18 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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> Therefore the masters program should be fine if you dont know a good deal of math
Yes, it will be interesting to watch somebody try to perform fourier analysis, or packet collusion probabilities, in a grad level network class without a good math background. It will be interesting to watch somebody try to perform algorithm complexity analysis without a good math background. It will be even more interesting to watch somebody try to perform fault tolerance proofs without a good math background. I would love to see somebody get through a cryptography class without having strong math skills.
Granted, if you are going to be writing software, then you probably aren't going to be using much calc. However, as I have stated several times, I view a CS master as somebody capable of doing research, not a programmer.
If you want to boil it down, then yes, I have only had classes in calc, statistics, linear algebra, and "logic". I figured if the school broke the broad subjects apart into different classes, and my transcript shows the classes as different, then they should probably be thought of as different.
In answer to your question, linear algebra was a course taught through the math department and involved theory. Matrix algebra was a course taught through the computer science department and used computers to apply the theory of linear algebra into practical solutions; computational numerical methods for solving linear algebra problems.
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TheCow
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Re: Is this a good computer course to study? [Re: Seuss]
#5651018 - 05/19/06 05:34 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Alright, I wasnt trying to bust your chops I was just saying that the general programmer doesnt really need complex math
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