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Sporetacus
Swashbuckler

Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 152
Last seen: 17 years, 8 months
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I find no logic in your arguments about a teacher having to have physically done something themselves first to be able to teach others how to do it Spartacus.
It is not that one cannot learn from one who hasn't done, but about the student having confidence in the material presented to him/her.
OK, you want to climb the dangerous and challenging El Capitan rock face in Yosemite. You go to a book store and know nothing of a single author; yet there are 30 books on climbing.
You would MOST likely choose:
A. A book by an expert on climbing Mt. Everest. B. A book by someone who never even climbed a hill. C. A book by someone who has guided climbs on El Capitan for 10 years.
-------------------- I'm Sporetacus!
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Sinbad
Living TheMoment


Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 2,571
Loc: Under The Bodhi Tree
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I completely agree Jiggy, Good job!
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
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Re: What I look for in a Teacher [Re: Sinbad]
#5638026 - 05/16/06 03:28 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sporetacus said: C. A book by someone who has guided climbs on El Capitan for 10 years.
You don't pick this choice, because then you are asking to be carried up the rocks by someone who won't bring you to turn your attention to your own experience. 
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Rose
Devil's Advocate


Registered: 09/24/03
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Re: What I look for in a Teacher [Re: Sporetacus]
#5638117 - 05/16/06 03:50 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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A teacher who practices what they preach, can be a great teacher... especially if they work towards honesty, positivity, and strong communication.
However, like many others in this thread have suggested, all you must do is open your eyes, to have the greatest teacher of them all.
So, what can you take from this discussion?
Does a good student really need a good teacher?
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy


Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: What I look for in a Teacher [Re: Sporetacus]
#5638166 - 05/16/06 04:02 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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You asked that question to an information junkie who doesn't like to follow directions without improvising for the fun of it. I would BUY them all and then some. I would make lots of mental notes of all I learned from others and then forge my own method of approach to the top that suits me best.
I'm not very trusting of others and am pretty skeptical of people in general. I like to do my own research, pull from a lot of sources and then play around with my own trial and erring. I prefer self teaching because I typically trust myself more then anyone else and know what works best for me to tackle something new.
I think your post has more to do with what establishes confidence and trust in a potential teacher for you.
That's a little different then what can make a good teacher. I agree that having confidence and trust in teacher helps the process along.
For you, that's their having actually done what they are teaching you. My freshmen year algebra teacher was a wiz at it. He couldn't get a damn thing through to me though. Lousy teacher he was.
Like in french class. I got straight As for the first year and a half with one teacher. She moved and a new one came in. She knew the language equally as well, yet my grade dropped to a C. 
Proving you have the ability to do something doesn't qualify you to be a good teacher of it to others.
Regarding establishing trust in a teacher, I noted that something that makes a good teacher for me is one that shows me basic respect. That builds my confidence and trust to open up to them. If they are patronizing, my defenses will go up and they will get a 'fuck you" closed door from me.
I don't need to believe in what they can do. When looking for help, I want someone, anyone to help me believe in what I can possibly do.
Like in TKD class, for a belt testing I had to a break a board and I thought it was going to be a thinner one I saw laying around before. When he came out with this board, triple the thickness, I was ready to bail before breaking a bone. I'm not in it for the belts anyway.
I looked at him like he was NUTS and (plotting to talk my way out of it) first said, "You really think I can break that?" He looked at me surprised at my doubtful attitude and said, "Hell yeah! Piece of cake for you." His confident response changed something in me. I put my trust him and did it. That was a weird feeling, like taking a leap of faith. I don't do that usually. His confidence in me had an effect on me. I never saw him break one like it.
You'll go with the guy who has proved to you he can do what you want to learn to do.
I typically don't turn myself over to any one teacher or method exclusively. Who ends up helping me to learn new things has a lot to do with their people skills and ability to pull out the greater potential of others.
My hat goes off to any human being who can effectively reach and teach me. I wrote in the sports post that good teachers should make more money then anyone else on the planet.
Take what you said about dominating another first to show them you have abilities because you believe it will build their trust and confidence in you like it does for you with potential teachers. That would turn me off so fast. I would think you were all about showing me what YOU can do and not about helping me to discover what I can do.
Humble teachers who don't even come across or act like an authority figure get me ten times further ten times faster. Anyone that can provide an environment where defences are easily dropped allows for the flood gates of knowledge to poor in.
I can learn much from people just from them asking me questions or their giving suggestions for me to try out without them ever having shown me what they can do.
I personally don't need to see proof that something can be done first before I can begin working to prove it to myself. Pioneering uncharted territories is fun. Following step A to step B to step C is tediously boring for me. If I have the time, I would rather play around and tinker with the materials and see what I can make of them for myself.
Like my mom trying to get something done with some realistate she rents out. She is following the written procedures with the association to a get a roof repaired and nothing is happening. I told her to write in her own procedure step (xyz) and now, things are moving.
Often, steps that bring some results don't bring them to others. Thats when knowing how to improvise and fly by the seat of your pants becomes a great asset.
That falls under teaching people critical thinking skills versus what to think. That takes a lot of patience to teach and I think patience is a definite prerequisite of a good teacher.
I agree with whoever it was that said this is not a black and white subject.
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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Ped
Interested In Your Brain



Registered: 08/30/99
Posts: 5,494
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
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Re: What I look for in a Teacher [Re: Sporetacus]
#5641482 - 05/17/06 11:03 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Sporetacus, FWG,
Okay, maybe I evaluated things incorrectly. Maybe I saw something in Sporetacus' posts that had more to do with me than it did with Sporetacus. I can accept that and apologize for my inconsiderate behavior.
I will ask again, this time more genuinely: why will you not invest faith in someone who is still journeying? Why do you need to see perfection before you will trust somebody to guide you? For that matter, how will you, an ordinary, deluded being like the rest of us, even recognize the perfect ideal you're searching for in others until you yourself have attained it?
It seems as though real spiritual progress is incremental. It comes from receiving an instruction, trying it out with a mind of faith, and then seeing for yourself whether or not it works. Why set up a dichotomy between "real spiritual people" and "fake" or "non-spiritual" people? Why this gulf between people who've "got it" and people who "don't got it"? It seems rather extreme. Doesn't this put a severe limit on our sources of input for spiritual growth?
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Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: What I look for in a Teacher [Re: Ped]
#5641557 - 05/17/06 11:26 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Good post. I can see where a problem often arises in the published teachers. Sometimes they're bullshitting and seeking fame rather than doing their best and falling short.
As I see it, it's up to us to decern one from the other and use what is useful and discard what is not.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,534
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Re: What I look for in a Teacher [Re: Icelander]
#5641649 - 05/17/06 11:46 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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the way I see it all of life is the teacher then good friends who care fill in the rest.
more or less formalized.
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_ 🧠_
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: What I look for in a Teacher [Re: redgreenvines]
#5641688 - 05/17/06 12:05 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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all of life is the teacher
That's it.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Cherk
Fashionable


Registered: 10/25/02
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Re: What I look for in a Teacher [Re: redgreenvines]
#5641730 - 05/17/06 12:18 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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god, guru, and student are one
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I have considered such matters. SIKE
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: What I look for in a Teacher [Re: Cherk]
#5641739 - 05/17/06 12:20 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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nice
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Skeptikos
GeneticallyEngineeredBonobo

Registered: 01/15/06
Posts: 145
Loc: Rome, west side
Last seen: 15 years, 2 months
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Re: What I look for in a Teacher [Re: Sporetacus]
#5641754 - 05/17/06 12:26 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sporetacus said: Someone who has attained some degree of mastery in a field where my progress is stunted; not someone who can write well. Someone who can point the way to new vistas and open my eyes to new possibilities through HAVING TRAVELLED THERE THEMSELVES.
Action and accomplishment, not talk, is what intrigues me.
I have to agree with you Sporetacus, but I would like to add that she should have nice legs too.
-------------------- Sincerely, Skeptikos
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Rose
Devil's Advocate


Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 22,518
Loc: Mod not God
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Re: What I look for in a Teacher [Re: redgreenvines]
#5642176 - 05/17/06 03:01 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: the way I see it all of life is the teacher then good friends who care fill in the rest.
more or less formalized.
This way of learning only works for smart students. The idiotic and uninformed would benefit more from an actual teacher.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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Sporetacus
Swashbuckler

Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 152
Last seen: 17 years, 8 months
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Re: What I look for in a Teacher [Re: Ped]
#5642228 - 05/17/06 03:19 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Why do you need to see perfection before you will trust somebody to guide you?
You and others have mentioned perfection as if I have spoken of it - which I have not. This is not honest discussion.
The author/teacher who ACTUALLY climbed El Capitan may have climbed technically imperfect and taken too long - however, he/she DID it! That is the important part and speaks a million times louder than someone who just talked about it.
Icelander asked me if I ever make mistakes that go against my teachings. The answer, of course, is yes. That being said, my wall of trophies (and those of my students) attests to real-world accomplishment - and generally making fewer mistakes than my opponents.
-------------------- I'm Sporetacus!
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: What I look for in a Teacher [Re: Sporetacus]
#5642274 - 05/17/06 03:32 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I've caught some really big trout.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Rose
Devil's Advocate


Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 22,518
Loc: Mod not God
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: What I look for in a Teacher [Re: Sporetacus]
#5642290 - 05/17/06 03:36 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sporetacus said: My wall of trophies (and those of my students) attests to real-world accomplishment - and generally making fewer mistakes than my opponents.
If only education were defined by the number of trophies you could get your hands on...
Just follow a formula to win... that is not real learning. I tend to learn more when trophies aren't involved.
Unless your only goal is winning, there is a BIG difference between winning a trophy, and REAL WORLD ACCOMPLISHMENT.
You talk of your fellow teachers as OPPONENTS.
Teaching isn't sport. Winning isn't learning.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
Edited by Rose (05/17/06 03:47 PM)
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Sporetacus
Swashbuckler

Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 152
Last seen: 17 years, 8 months
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Re: What I look for in a Teacher [Re: Icelander]
#5642401 - 05/17/06 04:03 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Then I will glady purchase your book on trout fishing.
-------------------- I'm Sporetacus!
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Sporetacus
Swashbuckler

Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 152
Last seen: 17 years, 8 months
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Re: What I look for in a Teacher [Re: Rose]
#5642415 - 05/17/06 04:07 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Just follow a formula to win... that is not real learning.
Really? The best of a new generation will frequently emulate the best of a previous generation thus setting new and better precedents. This pertains to business, sports, technology, even meditation and almost every other field.
-------------------- I'm Sporetacus!
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: What I look for in a Teacher [Re: Sporetacus]
#5642420 - 05/17/06 04:09 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Good choice. $39.95 plus shipping and handling and I would be glad to sign it. Sincerely, The Tripping Troutster.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Rose
Devil's Advocate


Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 22,518
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Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: What I look for in a Teacher [Re: Sporetacus]
#5642433 - 05/17/06 04:11 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sporetacus said: The best of a new generation will frequently emulate the best of a previous generation thus setting new and better precedents. This pertains to business, sports, technology, even meditation and almost every other field.
Perhaps it pertains to where you live...
But where I live, the state champion football player, eventually works at Dominoes Pizza (and is a seasonal ski bum). The State Champion debater becomes a paralegal, and the state champion painter... paints houses for a living.
Learning to win does not prepare you for the real world, nor is winning a school competion REAL WORLD EXPERIENCE.
Just ask the WORLD HIGH SCHOOL MEDITATION CHAMPION...
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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