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Offlinerelativexistance
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Bush's latest greatest idea
    #5629550 - 05/14/06 06:44 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Bush to Call for Guard Troops on Border


May 14, 8:08 PM (ET)

By NEDRA PICKLER

WASHINGTON (AP) - President Bush will call for thousands of National Guard troops to be deployed along the Mexico border in support of patrols aimed at keeping out illegal immigrants, White House officials said Sunday on the eve of an Oval Office address announcing the plan.

White House aides worked into the night Sunday to iron out details of the proposal and allay concerns among lawmakers that using troops to man the border would further burden an overextended military.

Two White House officials said Bush would propose using troops as a stopgap measure while the Border Patrol builds up its resources. The troops would play a supportive role to Border Patrol agents, who would maintain primary responsibility for physically guarding the border.

The officials spoke on a condition of anonymity before the address Monday at 8 p.m. EDT. The officials would not say how many troops Bush wanted to use, except that it would be in the thousands but less than an estimate of as many as 10,000 being discussed at the Pentagon.


Bush's national security adviser, Stephen Hadley, would not confirm that using National Guard troops was the plan but said it was one of the options the president was considering. But he described the same scenario.

"It's not about militarization of the border," Hadley said on CNN's "Late Edition.""It's about assisting the civilian border patrol in doing their job, providing intelligence, providing support, logistics support and training and these sorts of things."

Bush's National Guard plan is aimed at winning support for broader immigration reform from conservatives in Congress. Bush's main goal is to allow foreigners to get temporary work permits to take low-paying jobs - an idea favored by the business community. But many conservatives want a tougher approach on illegal immigrants trying to sneak into the country.

About 100 National Guard troops are serving on the border to assist with counter-drug operations, heavy equipment support and other functions.

"I think what it would be is simply expanding the kind of thing that has already been done in the past in order to provide a bit of a stopgap as the Border Patrol build up their capacity to deal with this challenge," Hadley said.

Bush gave the same message to Mexican President Vicente Fox, who called Sunday to express concern about what he called the possibility of a "militarized" border between the two nations. Bush assured Fox that any military support would be administrative and logistical and would come from the National Guard and not the Army, according to a news release from Fox's office.

Criticism of the National Guard plan came Sunday from Democrats, but also an important Republican negotiator in the immigration debate - Sen. Chuck Hagel of Nebraska. He said National Guard troops cannot secure the border over the long term and that he does not think it is wise even in the short term.

"We've got National Guard members on their second, third and fourth tours in Iraq," Hagel said. "We have stretched our military as thin as we have ever seen it in modern times. And what in the world are we talking about here, sending a National Guard that we may not have any capacity to send up to or down to protect borders? That's not their role."

Hagel said the bill under debate in the Senate that he helped write would double the 12,000-strong Border Patrol force over the next five years. "That's the way to fix it, not further stretching the National Guard," he said on ABC's "This Week."

Sen. Joe Biden, D-Del., said there may be a need for troops to fill in while the Border Patrol is bolstered. But he did not seem confident that the National Guard could take on the extra duty.

"We have stretched these men and women so thin, so thin, because of the bad mistakes done by the civilians in the military here, that I wonder how they're going to be able to do it," Biden said, also on ABC.

Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., said he supported using the National Guard on the Mexican border. He said lawmakers who doubt that the National Guard, whose members have served for years in Iraq and went to the Gulf Coast after last summer's hurricanes, could take on border patrol duty are "whining" and "moaning."

"We've got to secure our borders," Frist said on CNN's "Late Edition.""We hear it from the American people. We've got millions of people coming across that border. First and foremost, secure the border, whatever it takes. Everything else we've done has failed. We've got to face that. And so we need to bring in, I believe, the National Guard."

Frist said the full Senate planned to begin debating the immigration bill Monday and that it would take up to two weeks to pass.

Senators would have to resolve any differences with the House version of the bill, which did not address the guest worker issue but increases penalties for illegal immigration activities and funds a 700-mile border fence.

The statement from Fox's office and another from the White House said the two presidents agreed that immigration reform be comprehensive - meaning that it go beyond the tough punitive measures that some conservatives are promoting to stem the flow of immigrants.

White House spokeswoman Maria Tamburri said Bush made clear to Fox that "the United States considered Mexico a friend and that what is being considered is not militarization of the border, but support of border capabilities on a temporary basis by the National Guard."

http://apnews.excite.com/article/20060515/D8HJSDFG2.html


Anybody else find this absolutely absurd especially since we are technically STILL AT WAR?

I mean honestly other than cutting down on some drug trafficking, what good will this do? Most of those people are the ones helping keep this country afloat and running. All they want to do is work and better their lives and the lives of their families. Isn't the basic founding of our country? I say let them come in and get rid of the people already here that don't want/won't work.


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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Re: Bush's latest greatest idea [Re: relativexistance]
    #5629790 - 05/14/06 07:57 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Just a smoke screen... Bush needs to somehow get the support of republicans on his side somehow, yea didnt something like this happen under Nixon in 71 we saw how much came out of that.

Truth is Bush and company need the mexicans so why should they do anything about it especially since the government during the clean up of Katrina actively give out contracts to people that hire Illegal immigration.

They figure that sending down the overstretched, underfunded national guard to the border will somehow be a response to the areas on Mexico that are "liberated" by drug smugglers with the intent to deliver blackmarket goods into this country.

America will sure bite off more than they can chew when they found out that blackmarket interests can afford to protect their supply chains.


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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: Bush's latest greatest idea [Re: relativexistance]
    #5629806 - 05/14/06 08:01 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Nuke mexico! :tongue:


--------------------

I find your lack of faith disturbing


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Bush's latest greatest idea [Re: relativexistance]
    #5629970 - 05/14/06 08:34 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Sounds good to me. The less people mooching off our public services without paying into them, the better.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Bush's latest greatest idea [Re: relativexistance]
    #5629975 - 05/14/06 08:35 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

This actually sounds like a good idea to me. The Border Patrol hasn't been able to stop illegal immigration. Maybe the National Guard can.


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OfflineDavid_vs_Goliath
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Re: Bush's latest greatest idea [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #5630009 - 05/14/06 08:42 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

if they are going to build a "human wall" then go ahead and build the stupid wall. It would be cheaper and mabey just have the national guard build it then? I would estimate it would take 2 years if you have to 10,000 (as estimated) amount of people working on it, possibly less time) then you would only have to pay for the supplies.


--------------------
"People living deeply have no fear of death."
"Love the animals, love the plants, love everything. If you love everything, you will perceive the divine mystery in things. Once you perceive it, you will begin to comprehend it better every day. And you will come at last to love the whole world with an all-embracing love."
"Our problems are man-made, therefore they may be solved by man. No problem of human destiny is beyond human beings."


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Bush's latest greatest idea [Re: David_vs_Goliath]
    #5630026 - 05/14/06 08:44 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

David_vs_Goliath said:
if they are going to build a "human wall" then go ahead and build the stupid wall. It would be cheaper and mabey just have the national guard build it then? I would estimate it would take 2 years if you have to 10,000 (as estimated) amount of people working on it, possibly less time) then you would only have to pay for the supplies.




Maybe a huge wall would be better and cheaper. :shrug: 

But, I'm not a border patrol specialist.  I don't know the cost effectiveness of the various strategies.


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Offlinegregorio
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Re: Bush's latest greatest idea [Re: relativexistance]
    #5631512 - 05/15/06 07:08 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

relativexistance said:

Anybody else find this absolutely absurd especially since we are technically STILL AT WAR?





There is nothing absurd about it. Protecting and securing the borders is a legitimate function of government, especially during a time of war.


Quote:

Most of those people are the ones helping keep this country afloat and running.




Wrong. The costs of illegal aliens far outweigh the benefits that they provide. And beyond that, a nation must keep their borders protected and secured if it is to have any hopes of survival.


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Offlinerelativexistance
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Re: Bush's latest greatest idea [Re: gregorio]
    #5634048 - 05/15/06 06:10 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

What are we in danger of the mexico invading?

You say the costs of illegal aliens far outweigh the benefits, however I would think that most of those costs are created by the own mechanism that prevents them from getting here. They receive absolutely no government assistance whatsoever. How would reforming the immigration system, reducing the necessary security, and increasing the consumer base be more costful.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Bush's latest greatest idea [Re: relativexistance]
    #5634096 - 05/15/06 06:15 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

relativexistance said:
What are we in danger of the mexico invading?

You say the costs of illegal aliens far outweigh the benefits, however I would think that most of those costs are created by the own mechanism that prevents them from getting here. They receive absolutely no government assistance whatsoever. How would reforming the immigration system, reducing the necessary security, and increasing the consumer base be more costful.




English is not your first language is it?


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Offlinerelativexistance
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Re: Bush's latest greatest idea [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5634148 - 05/15/06 06:26 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I edited it and didn't proofread what I had wrote. Sorry, you want a medal for internet message board semantics?


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Bush's latest greatest idea [Re: relativexistance]
    #5634174 - 05/15/06 06:33 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

No. Your post is basicly indecipherable. No one can reasonably respond to an indecipherable post. Common courtesy, or an expectation of a dialogue, obligates you to produce your posts in understandable english.
By posting here I assume you wish to enter into a dialogue. Or, then again, you may only be interested in posting incoherent rants. In which case I withdraw my request that you write in English. Continue with whatever language that was.


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Offlinerelativexistance
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Re: Bush's latest greatest idea [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5634351 - 05/15/06 07:10 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

LOL, you definitely have me there. I apologize for my poor language, as well as my seemingly biased opinion on this matter. I should have posted this as more of a debate than a one sided opinion. It has just got me so frustrated from reading about more regulation and more security measures being taken. I think it bothers me because it seems as if this nation is continuously moving towards a military dominated nation. Why build walls and align troops if it isn't that last possible measure? Given these aren't exactly military troops that they are bringing to the border, however they are pretty close to it.


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OfflineTookar
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Re: Bush's latest greatest idea [Re: relativexistance]
    #5642412 - 05/17/06 04:07 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

relativexistance said:
What are we in danger of the mexico invading?

You say the costs of illegal aliens far outweigh the benefits, however I would think that most of those costs are created by the own mechanism that prevents them from getting here. They receive absolutely no government assistance whatsoever. How would reforming the immigration system, reducing the necessary security, and increasing the consumer base be more costful.




No government assistance?
.. yes, they do.
Many border states are I believe taking to court the issue of funding for public hospitals -- due to lax control of our border, many Mexicans illegally cross the border, and the hospitals wind up treating them yet recieving no money for any care.
Public schools? Yeah, illegal immigrant kids in there too. Not to mention all the kids who are citizens because their mother snuck across a few weeks before she was due and stopped in at a hospital to squirt her brat out so he'd have papers. And then, of course, she can stay, too.


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Offlineke1n
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Re: Bush's latest greatest idea [Re: Redstorm]
    #5642634 - 05/17/06 04:53 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
Sounds good to me. The less people mooching off our public services without paying into them, the better.




their cheap labor is something that allows us to live the way we do.

u think if every laborer were paid a fair wage our lives wouldnt change?


--------------------



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OfflineSkeptikos
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Re: Bush's latest greatest idea [Re: ke1n]
    #5642699 - 05/17/06 05:08 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

ke1n said:
their cheap labor is something that allows us to live the way we do.




Do you mean with ever increasing medical insurance premiums to pay for their use of emergency rooms? Do you mean with over-crowded public schools, payed for by property taxes of American citizens? Do you mean free school lunches and free school breakfasts paid for by burdening the average taxpayer who feeds his own children? Do you mean dropping wage rates in semi-skilled and unskilled jobs leading to American citizens going on welfare or exhausting unemployment benefits rather than reducing their incomes? Do you mean an over-burdened infrastructure, crowded freeways, electrical power delivery system at the edge of being overwhelmed, increasing demand for fresh water in arid and semi-arid areas over-run with people. Do you mean the increasing degradation of our environment and pollution brought about by swelling ranks of people? Do you mean increasing numbers of uninsured and unlicensed motorists compelling an increase in insurance rates for those who do pay? Do you mean illegal voting by those who are not citizens?


--------------------
Sincerely,

Skeptikos


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Bush's latest greatest idea [Re: Skeptikos]
    #5642760 - 05/17/06 05:22 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah, I think he means all of those things. Errrr, maybe he doesn't. Maybe he just doesn't want to mow his own lawn.


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OfflineSkeptikos
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Re: Bush's latest greatest idea [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5643695 - 05/17/06 08:58 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I find keeping a goat is cheaper than hiring an illegal for that purpose. Plus, you can eat it if you fall on hard times.


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Skeptikos


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Bush's latest greatest idea [Re: Skeptikos]
    #5643744 - 05/17/06 09:13 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

zappisgod stated:Or, then again, you may only be interested in posting incoherent rants. In which case I withdraw my request that you write in English. Continue with whatever language that was


:grin:


Tookar stated: They receive absolutely no government assistance whatsoever


I would love to show you some choice spots in Chicago.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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