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Ythan
ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ


Registered: 08/08/97
Posts: 18,774
Loc: NY/MA/VT Borderlands
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Re: Water Fuel - HHO Gas [Re: TODAY]
#5645748 - 05/18/06 10:16 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Anno
Experimenter



Registered: 06/17/99
Posts: 24,166
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Re: Water Fuel - HHO Gas [Re: Ythan]
#5685057 - 05/28/06 11:12 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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http://www.randi.org/jr/2006-05/052606action.html#i3
Quote:
FIRE WATER
Incredible! We are apparently immersed in a scientifically-ignorant culture in which the media can’t figure out the simplest of what would have been a grade-school science project for my generation. Go to www.randi.org/media/WaterFuel.wmv and be appalled at what “inventor” Denny Klein is selling to FOX26 News in Clearwater, Florida, via their excited reporter Craig Patrick, as a system that will run a car for 100 miles “fueled” solely by four ounces of water! In the video, a hydrogen torch using “HHO technology” that Klein demonstrates, is described by ridiculous expressions such as, “hotter than the surface of the Sun,” and we’re told that it takes “only seconds to literally burn a hole through charcoal.” Duh! Charcoal burns, dummy!
The FOX video shows Klein holding the tip of the welder between his fingers, which, they marvel, “remains cool to the touch.” Duh! again. Any of this sort of torch acts the same. The tip is cool because the compressed gas, as it decompresses and exits, makes the metal tip cold. It’s only when the mixed gases – hydrogen and oxygen, in this case – burn, that heat is produced, and that happens just beyond the tip. WHERE’S THE MIRACLE HERE? Clearwater’s FOX TV tells us, “No other gas will do this." Wrong, juvenile, and naïve. Add, stupid.
We’re told, in the FOX video, that “people still have trouble believing him” when Klein tells them that his fuel is water. Small wonder. That water has to first be broken down into hydrogen and oxygen through a method known as electrolysis. That process was discovered back in the 1800s, and it uses more energy than can be gained from it by burning the two components – that’s called the Conservation of Energy law, and it hasn’t yet been repealed. Cars that run “on water” have been re-invented every few years. Recently there was Steven Horvath in Australia, who sold a lot of stock to losers, Henry Garrett in Texas – in 1935 – and Stanley Meyer, who was convicted of fraud in 1996. Andrija Puharich – who also “discovered” Uri Geller! – Archie Blue, Bob Boyce, Carl Cella, Charles H. Garrett, Daniel Dingel, Hector Pierre Vaes, Nakamatsu Yoshiro, Sam Leslie Leach, Stanley Meyer, and scores of others, all came up with this same insane idea, and all fell on their collective nose.
Now, I don’t know who Craig Patrick is, nor whether he has a grade-school education, but if FOX26 News thinks they’ve got a genius on board, they’re dreaming. However, Klein will attract investors with this juvenile idea, and I’m sure someone in Washington will spend some of our tax dollars looking into it. Count on it.
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Re: Water Fuel - HHO Gas [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#5685941 - 05/29/06 09:41 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Zinc reacts with water to form hydrogen and zinc oxide at a temperature of a few hundred degrees.
Zinc is a very realistic energy source!
You can decompose zinc and water using a copper anode (basically copper wire which remains unaltered) and you generate electricity (zinc-copper battery) like so:
Zn + H2O --> ZnO + 2 electrons + H2
and the hydrogen can be used to power a fuel cell to bind the hydrogen to atmospheric oxygen, so that you basically get:
Zn + H2O + Air --> ZnO + 4 electrons + H2O
The entire zinc/water system weighs a mere 21 grams per molar electron (coulomb) and Zinc oxide, when heated or electrolyzed, returns to zinc so you basically turn electricity into fuel cell fuel into electricity, without the risks of hydrogen. Aluminium also is a very good candidate for this system, at a mere 9gr per mole of electrons, lead batteries hanging around 100gr for the same electricity capacity.
I see how his hybrid car works though: he combusts gasoline, drives a generator, uses the generator to electrolyse water and then burn the water to drive the motor. That's wasteful.
An interesting process thats being looked into is the age-old producer gas/ water gas method in which steam is led into glowing coal to form a combustible (but highly toxic) gas like so: H2O + C --> CO + H2
The problem is that you're once again bringing fossilized carbon into the ecosystem.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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Baby_Hitler
Errorist



Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 27,587
Loc: To the limit!
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Re: Water Fuel - HHO Gas [Re: Ythan]
#5685955 - 05/29/06 09:51 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I bought a 5lb zinc anode a coupla years back with the intention of making a zinc/air battery. I found some plans for a basic one. The main thing I need is a good air electrode
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