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Fospher
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Quote:
fireworks_god said: I realize that one can learn from an experience, just as one can learn from any experience, but that does not mean that a mushroom "teaches". Does your lamp teach you?
If my lamp was the Teonanactl, it most definetely would. Does a teacher not teach?
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EquilibriuM
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Quote:
fireworks_god said:
Quote:
EquilibriuM said: according to you.
Does meth teach you?
No, it tries to control you.
-------------------- HELP!!!!!!!!!
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Fospher
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Fuck yes. :thumpup:
edit: THUMP, LOL
Edited by Fospher (05/14/06 03:00 PM)
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Icelander
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Quote:
fireworks_god said:
Quote:
EquilibriuM said: The mushrooms teach us that God is the force of life that we all come from. That eventually, we will join back up with God.
Consider a Brujas ability to remove the life force from someone. Their ability to remove someone from God. This I have witnessed, as we encountered a Bruja one day, she possessed my wife, and demonstrated her power by dimming the life force out of my wife like a dimmer light switch. We all could have easily been killed that day but thankfully, we were spared.
A mushroom doesn't "teach" anything.
 Peace.
I'm not sure you are correct. But it's tricky to know what is going on. I have friends besides myself that I very much trust to tell me the truth. They claim that at a very high dose the mushrooms did teach them. I have had a similar experience with peyote.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
Edited by Icelander (05/14/06 03:02 PM)
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fireworks_god
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Quote:
EquilibriuM said: No a lamp does not teach me, but mushrooms do. Don't be an ass.
I'm not being an ass. One can observe a lamp and its qualities and learn a great deal of information. A lamp represents a lot of meaning.
One can learn from an experience on mushrooms, but it is rather delusional to think that a mushroom is a conscious entity that teaches one. One learns from experiences, and an experience on mushrooms is a profound experience.
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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fireworks_god
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Quote:
EquilibriuM said: No, it tries to control you.
Please. Meth is a substance, an arrangment of chemicals, just as psilocybin and psilocyin are. They interact differently with the brain in order to alter our perceptions and experiences of reality. It is delusional to consider them to be entities capable of choosing to influence oneself in some manner, as such cannot be evidenced or demonstrated in reality.
One takes meth; one has an experience. Same with mushrooms. Have you ever taken meth? What kind of experience have you had?
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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fireworks_god
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Re: don Juan [Re: Fospher]
#5628742 - 05/14/06 03:11 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Fospher said: If my lamp was the Teonanactl, it most definetely would. Does a teacher not teach?
A teacher teaches, but the fact that one is capable of learning and teaching oneself does not mean that the aspects of reality that are involved with the act of learning and teaching oneself are doing the teaching themselves.
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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EquilibriuM
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Quote:
fireworks_god said:
Quote:
EquilibriuM said: No, it tries to control you.
Please. Meth is a substance, an arrangment of chemicals, just as psilocybin and psilocyin are. They interact differently with the brain in order to alter our perceptions and experiences of reality. It is delusional to consider them to be entities capable of choosing to influence oneself in some manner, as such cannot be evidenced or demonstrated in reality.
One takes meth; one has an experience. Same with mushrooms. Have you ever taken meth? What kind of experience have you had?
 Peace.
You are too concerned with the surface of things.
-------------------- HELP!!!!!!!!!
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fireworks_god
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Quote:
Icelander said: They claim that at a very high dose the mushrooms did teach them. I have had a similar experience with peyote.
We have an incredible ability to understand. We do not begin to realize the true nature of our minds or what we are, what we are a part of. I've had incredible experiences on mushrooms, wherein I accessed a lot of insight, understanding, and realization, the nature of such being that, as I sit here, I could not conceptualize or recreate it, as I simply am not operating within a higher state of awareness. One cannot fit an ocean within one's room.
Who's to really say? I know I'm not anyone who can. And yet, I'm far more inclined to think that it happens through us. A mushroom simply changes our brain's chemical composition so that it operates in a different manner. Our perceptions change, and it is still reality that is being perceived, and it is still us that is perceiving.
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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fireworks_god
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Quote:
EquilibriuM said: You are too concerned with the surface of things.
One starts with what one can know and expands upon that. Doing so is necessary and is all that we are capable of. I'd prefer to be more concerned with that which can be known by directly perceiving reality than that which can only be known through one's imagination. 
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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fireworks_god
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Which reminds me, how have you brought yourself to the conclusion that "meth attempts to control you"? I also asked if you have done meth. What was your experience like, if you have?
... If you haven't, how have you come to your conclusion?
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Fospher
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So you are teaching yourself from yourself from your own mind? You can't teach yourself something you already know.
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EquilibriuM
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Quote:
fireworks_god said: Which reminds me, how have you brought yourself to the conclusion that "meth attempts to control you"? I also asked if you have done meth. What was your experience like, if you have?
... If you haven't, how have you come to your conclusion?
 Peace.
I wouldnt talk about something I didn't know as if I knew it.
-------------------- HELP!!!!!!!!!
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fireworks_god
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So, then, you are or are not going to talk about it?
You made a statement, "meth attempts to control you". I am asking you to elaborate further into that matter. Are you going to answer the questions or not?
Oh god, here we go again! 
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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fireworks_god
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Re: don Juan [Re: Fospher]
#5628827 - 05/14/06 03:36 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Fospher said: So you are teaching yourself from yourself from your own mind? You can't teach yourself something you already know.
I fully realize that we are interacting with reality, but it is only ourself that is learning. One can't look at a tree and state that the tree is teaching a lesson. The tree simply is.
We are the only ones who are deriving meaning from this existance. We are teaching ourselves.
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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EquilibriuM
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No, I am uninterested in your intrusion of this thread. You attack a personal experience as if you can change my mind about it because your personal experience differs. Sorry but thats not the way it works. It you have something constructive to add to the conversation about don Juan or sorcery, I will be glad to continue...
-------------------- HELP!!!!!!!!!
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Icelander
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but it is rather delusional to think that a mushroom is a conscious entity that teaches one.
How does one know if there is no spirit or entity within these plants? I have reserved judgement on this. Does that make me delusional?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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fireworks_god
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Quote:
Icelander said: How does one know if there is no spirit or entity within these plants? I have reserved judgement on this. Does that make me delusional?
Nice question. How does one know?
I've obviously reserved judgement as well, and the simple fact remains that one doesn't know.
Thus, to assume that one does know is delusional. You are not delusional, and yet someone who is assured themselves that there is a mushroom spirit that imparts divine teachings is delusional.

 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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fireworks_god
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Quote:
EquilibriuM said: No, I am uninterested in your intrusion of this thread. You attack a personal experience as if you can change my mind about it because your personal experience differs. Sorry but thats not the way it works. It you have something constructive to add to the conversation about don Juan or sorcery, I will be glad to continue...
Your statement, "The mushrooms teach us that God is the force of life that we all come from. That eventually, we will join back up with God.", is as much of an intrusion in this thread as my subsequent responses to that statement. If you cannot discern the difference, then so be it.
You cannot make a statement and escape any response and focus upon it by stating that doing so is an intrusion. I realize to the fullest extent that you want to state whatever the hell you want and be free of any questioning of it, as you no doubt are incapable of supporting your claims. So be it.
The thought of a chemical acting as a conscious entity that attempts to control someone is absurd. 
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Icelander
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I'm afraid that you cannot judge what another person knows and doesn't know in this instance. You can only know what you know. I think that a spirit within peyote may have taught me. (PM me for details) I don't know though because I am not sure what happened. So I reserve judgement. A more powerful person (lets say if there were actually toltec seers) might very well know one way or another.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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