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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


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Why do you want to use the word God to define your concept? It's the subject of much controversy and sorcery has little use for it.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly


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"It's the subject of much controversy and sorcery has little use for it."
Agreed. Sorcery in fact has no use for contoversy at all. It is based on that which is purely practical. God is irrelevant as the concept has no practical value beyond placating the mortal fear of death. The concepts of God and the afterlife make us into immortals. As for me, I will die. I have no use for false immortality.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


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The nagual as we think of it is a concept. Simply due to the fact that we think of it.
You are not thinking of it. You are thinking of the word nagual and using your tonal to create a concept. That's not it.
.....
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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EquilibriuM
dream stalker

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Quote:
Icelander said: Why do you want to use the word God to define your concept? It's the subject of much controversy and sorcery has little use for it.
Its just a word, I only use that word to relate to others.
But what I speak of has much use for sorcery, as I have witnessed its use.
-------------------- HELP!!!!!!!!!
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EquilibriuM
dream stalker

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Quote:
Icelander said: The nagual as we think of it is a concept. Simply due to the fact that we think of it.
You are not thinking of it. You are thinking of the word nagual and using your tonal to create a concept. That's not it.
.....
Exactly, but as we think of it, it is a concept. The concept of something we cannot think of.
-------------------- HELP!!!!!!!!!
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


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Quote:
EquilibriuM said:
Quote:
Icelander said: Why do you want to use the word God to define your concept? It's the subject of much controversy and sorcery has little use for it.
But what I speak of has much use for sorcery, as I have witnessed its use.
Explain how?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly


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The pre-Columbian Indians of southern Mexico and Guatamala were pantheistic. Monotheism had not been introduced to them and was a uniquely Old World concept. Nagualism is firmly based in the religious traditions of those people. A monotheistic God would have never had a place in such a tradition. Even entertaining the idea has no value.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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EquilibriuM
dream stalker

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-------------------- HELP!!!!!!!!!
Edited by EquilibriuM (07/14/06 03:50 PM)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


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It's obvious to me at least from reading the books that Don Juan considered God something in peoples fantasies. He never confronted Carlos directly about that belief but let him figure it out for himself. It's obvious that the concept of God didn't figure in to Don Juan's brand of sorcery.
I'm still curious as to how God figures in to yours?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Fospher
Crime FightingMaster Criminal


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Quote:
Huehuecoyotl said: "It's the subject of much controversy and sorcery has little use for it."
Agreed. Sorcery in fact has no use for contoversy at all. It is based on that which is purely practical. God is irrelevant as the concept has no practical value beyond placating the mortal fear of death. The concepts of God and the afterlife make us into immortals. As for me, I will die. I have no use for false immortality.
Immortality was implied in the sense of infinite life on this earth, a Christian belief does not contradict this by saying our flesh is immortal, anywhere.
I find incorporating the collected Castaneda writings to my life extremely practical. To me they are a moral doctrine and the concept of being a warrior goes hand in hand with my personality. As far as the afterlife goes, whatever Castaneda, the Tao, or the Bible says - you can only believe in. And a practical belief based on logic is in itself a logical contradiction hence once something is proven it no longer needs to be believed.
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: don Juan [Re: Fospher]
#5628619 - 05/14/06 02:38 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I think you may be confusing "belief" with "faith."
Quote:
Belief: conviction of the truth of some statement or the reality of some being or phenomenon especially when based on examination of evidence.
It is entirely possible to believe in facts which one has verified through a logical process. Faith is belief in that which cannot be verified.
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EquilibriuM
dream stalker

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Quote:
Icelander said: It's obvious to me at least from reading the books that Don Juan considered God something in peoples fantasies. He never confronted Carlos directly about that belief but let him figure it out for himself. It's obvious that the concept of God didn't figure in to Don Juan's brand of sorcery.
I'm still curious as to how God figures in to yours?
I agree that the idea of God as some kind of entity or human like being is something don Juan considered as something that exists in imagination.
..............
The mushrooms teach us that God is the force of life that we all come from. That eventually, we will join back up with God.
Consider a Brujas ability to remove the life force from someone. Their ability to remove someone from God. This I have witnessed, as we encountered a Bruja one day, she possessed my wife, and demonstrated her power by dimming the life force out of my wife like a dimmer light switch. We all could have easily been killed that day but thankfully, we were spared.
-------------------- HELP!!!!!!!!!
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Fospher
Crime FightingMaster Criminal


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Re: don Juan [Re: Veritas]
#5628639 - 05/14/06 02:46 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Ahh, but you see, evidence alone does not constitute proof.
I can see a saucer flying in the sky and take a polaroid, and have that as evidence of my belief in aliens. Does that mean that my belief is based on a fact that aliens exist? No, it means that I have gained a suspicion providing a possible explanation of my belief.
A belief in a fact is a logical fallacy.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
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Quote:
EquilibriuM said: The mushrooms teach us that God is the force of life that we all come from. That eventually, we will join back up with God.
Consider a Brujas ability to remove the life force from someone. Their ability to remove someone from God. This I have witnessed, as we encountered a Bruja one day, she possessed my wife, and demonstrated her power by dimming the life force out of my wife like a dimmer light switch. We all could have easily been killed that day but thankfully, we were spared.
A mushroom doesn't "teach" anything.
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Fospher
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Quote:
fireworks_god said: A mushroom doesn't "teach" anything.
That's because you're not asking it any questions.
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EquilibriuM
dream stalker

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according to you.
-------------------- HELP!!!!!!!!!
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


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Re: don Juan [Re: Fospher]
#5628658 - 05/14/06 02:51 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Fospher said: That's because you're not asking it any questions.
Asking questions is being snotty and condescending, duh. 

I realize that one can learn from an experience, just as one can learn from any experience, but that does not mean that a mushroom "teaches". Does your lamp teach you?
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


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Quote:
EquilibriuM said: according to you.
Does meth teach you?
 Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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EquilibriuM
dream stalker

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No a lamp does not teach me, but mushrooms do. Don't be an ass.
-------------------- HELP!!!!!!!!!
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


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Re: don Juan [Re: Fospher]
#5628667 - 05/14/06 02:53 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Good! I'm the same and while I don't consider morality a part of the teachings, I think you're referring to impeccability which I can totally relate to. The warriors path is the only path IMO that can free us from the tyranny of ourselves and our cultural programs. You have to be willing to stop blaming life and people for your problems and take ultimate responsibility for everything in your life. It's a fine way to try and live.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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