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Invisiblemoog
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attachment
    #5622443 - 05/12/06 07:37 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

here's something that just popped into my mind. if traditional Buddhists strive for non-attachment, why do some attach themselves to certain styles of dress, such as the shaved head and robes?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: attachment [Re: moog]
    #5622452 - 05/12/06 07:39 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

It's a club. You got to know whos in it. :grin:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinefresh313
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Re: attachment [Re: moog]
    #5622462 - 05/12/06 07:41 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

thier not attached to thier hair or is thier hair is not attached to them?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: attachment [Re: fresh313]
    #5622467 - 05/12/06 07:41 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

:grin:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisiblemoog
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Re: attachment [Re: fresh313]
    #5622494 - 05/12/06 07:47 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

hehe...

i was looking online at different Buddhist monasteries because i'm thinking of visiting one, and i just noticed this. i don't know, i thought maybe Buddhism was different from the other organized religions. i thought maybe the followers would be more open-minded and free-thinking. anybody recommend a good monastery to visit?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: attachment [Re: moog]
    #5622561 - 05/12/06 08:03 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Followers come in all stripes and colors. Some are gems and some need to get a clue.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: attachment [Re: moog]
    #5622586 - 05/12/06 08:12 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

your question doesn't make sense. how does wearing a certain type of garment prevent one from reaching a state of non attatchment?


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Invisiblemoog
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Re: attachment [Re: Deviate]
    #5622599 - 05/12/06 08:14 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

i'm talking about the people who are attached to the idea that they must dress or look a certain way to be a Buddhist. how will they reach a state of non-attachment if they can't let go of that attachment?


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OfflineCherk
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Re: attachment [Re: moog]
    #5622669 - 05/12/06 08:30 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

to my knowledge mainly for simplicity sake, though the shaved heads originally started to keep fleas and body odor out of the monastaries

I visited the Zen Center of Denver not to long ago and while the atmosphere was conducive to spiritual growth it was a little too formal for me

I prefer the guru/discipile relationship found in asrams


Edited by Smoker For Peace (05/12/06 08:32 PM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: attachment [Re: Cherk]
    #5622708 - 05/12/06 08:39 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

In the summer here in the pacific northwest I see them wearing them in 100 degree weather (talk about body oder :shocked:) when everyone else is dying in shorts and a tanktop at most. Not too many fleas either.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: attachment [Re: Icelander]
    #5622806 - 05/12/06 08:57 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

It is necessary to construct form in order for form to realize the formless?

:headbang: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

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OfflineDeviate
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Re: attachment [Re: moog]
    #5623004 - 05/12/06 09:42 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

moog said:
i'm talking about the people who are attached to the idea that they must dress or look a certain way to be a Buddhist. how will they reach a state of non-attachment if they can't let go of that attachment?




ive never met anyone who believed they must dress a certain way to be a buddhist.


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Invisibledblaney
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Re: attachment [Re: moog]
    #5623165 - 05/12/06 10:41 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

It's just tradition with some practical value. The traditions of the west are drastically different than those of the east, which is probably why you're lead to ask that question in the first place. Certainly they aren't attached to those traditions, nor must one dress in robes in order to be non-attached. It's like office buildings: most people wear a collared shirt, tie, nice trousers, and shoes. Must one wear all that in order to work in an office building? Nope of course not, but it's common practice: tradition you could say.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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OfflinePed
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Re: attachment [Re: dblaney]
    #5623503 - 05/13/06 12:53 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

>> i'm talking about the people who are attached to the idea that they must dress or look a certain way to be a Buddhist. how will they reach a state of non-attachment if they can't let go of that attachment?

Certainly it's possible to become attached to the non-attached appearance of robes and shaved headedness. There is a certain nobility to it that one is able to grasp at and become attached to. But that is not the original intent of the tradition. The robes have a lot of symbolism. For example, they are sewn in patches to represent impermanence, the colours represent certain aspects of mind, the overlap represents the truth of death, and so forth. The shaved head represents abandonment of vanity.

It's very true, however, that all of this can in fact become vanity. That is the case, unfortunately, in many circles. It's not different from a Zen student walking out of a session bragging about how many hours he meditated and how much his legs hurt. Such obnoxiousness has nothing to do with the tradition, and everything to do with the non-virtuous motivations brought to the implementation of the tradition.

If practised sincerely, ordination is immensely meaningful and powerful.


>> It is necessary to construct form in order for form to realize the formless?

Sure, I think so. Many people criticize Tibetan traditions, saying that they rely too heavily on concepts to dissolve conceptualization. Many people prefer the astringent approach of Zen traditions, which attack conceptualization directly. They say that the mind simply needs to rest and open up to Nirvana now: why bother with discourses and commentaries and such things? I don't disagree with this view, but at the same time I'm not sure if this is entirely practical for us in the west. We have many coarse modes of consciousness that rule our experience, and these cannot be pacified readily with highly esoteric koan meditations and long, grueling sits. It is necessary to apply opponent conceptualizations, I think, as a preliminary means of correcting one gross extreme with another. In this way we can find the Middle Way, and can set about the actual effort of freeing the mind.


--------------------


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: attachment [Re: Ped]
    #5623648 - 05/13/06 01:52 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Ped! it's good to see you again.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: attachment [Re: Deviate]
    #5623788 - 05/13/06 03:42 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

> why do some attach themselves to certain styles of dress, such as the shaved head and robes?

In the early days of Zen, the style of dress was a a show of non-attachment. The robes were sewn together from discarded rags used by women during menstration. The robes were dyed brown to cover the blood stains. Shaving the head is a symbol of detachment as well.

Just because one is a monk does not make one perfect.


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Just another spore in the wind.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: attachment [Re: Cherk]
    #5623794 - 05/13/06 03:47 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

> I visited the Zen Center of Denver not to long ago and while the atmosphere was conducive to spiritual growth it was a little too formal for me

You don't have to participate in the formal stuff. Once you go through the introduction class, you can use the meditation areas downstairs during any of the open sitting times. Wed nights are open to the public as well (or at least they used to be, when I lived there). You don't have to listen to the guy give the intro. Once you know what is going on, you can go sit while everybody else talks. The intro class takes two days during the weekend and they usually offer it four times a year. They used to charge for the class, but will let you in for free if you ask.


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Just another spore in the wind.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: attachment [Re: moog]
    #5623813 - 05/13/06 09:14 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

moog said:
here's something that just popped into my mind. if traditional Buddhists strive for non-attachment, why do some attach themselves to certain styles of dress, such as the shaved head and robes?




Who says they are attached to it? It's just a custom, doesn't mean they deeply care about it


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: attachment [Re: moog]
    #5623818 - 05/13/06 09:17 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

moog said:
i'm talking about the people who are attached to the idea that they must dress or look a certain way to be a Buddhist. how will they reach a state of non-attachment if they can't let go of that attachment?




you seem to have a different idea of what attachment is.
The kind of attachment that prevents them from reaching enlightenment is emotional attachment.
It's the kind of attachment that makes you feel happy when something is there, and feel pain when something isn't there.

I don't think they are particulary happy about their robes, or that they would feel pain if someone stole them from them. They just ware them


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineFospher
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Re: attachment [Re: moog]
    #5624219 - 05/13/06 11:05 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Attachments usually carry trojans.

BEWARE


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010001100100001001000101!


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