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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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praying
    #5618288 - 05/11/06 05:50 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Wheather you are christian, or some other religion, or of your own awakened spirituality that includes praying (communicating with something higher in hopes of changing something)...
does it work for you?
And please if it does, give us an example. What did you ask for, and how did you get it?


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Offlinefresh313
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Re: praying [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5618308 - 05/11/06 05:57 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

i kept saying om mani padme hum
and god freed my mind


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InvisibleWIZOLZ
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Re: praying [Re: fresh313]
    #5619032 - 05/11/06 09:03 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Ive had praying sessions where I could feel a spiritual uplifting energy, instant confidence, stronger faith, etc. I've prayed for many things, rarely observing whether it has happened or not, though, Im sure they have. I enjoy prayers of expression of my gratitude and thankfullness, of the worlds beauty and grace, for strength and courage towards positive ends, for others and their protection. Ive learned this is the correct way to approach prayer. I've also had a tremendously transforming experience where I was in a rage and called out and almost instantly seeing results. So, it works on different levels I imagine.

Also, most prayers, if not properly verbalized, umm or other variables, like the gratitude and humility factor..dont actually reach whatever diety you focus it towards. Were not all given the right to speak to God, I figure alot of it is self motivation and personal admonishment, which is still very important. Remembering to review your personal, spritiual goals and rememberances. Eventually though, prayer works if you pursue it and believe in its effectiveness.


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---------o----o----o-------o------------------------o--o-o-
----------------------------------------------------------------
Requim for a Dream - Paul Oakenfold
---------------------------------------------------------------
"The mis/abuse of any form of power, is the worst form of ignorance"
-------------------------------------------------------------
WIZOLZ - Lover with a Killer's Smile


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OfflineDavid_vs_Goliath
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Re: praying [Re: WIZOLZ]
    #5619100 - 05/11/06 09:23 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I believe prayer is more about intense emotion and thought on what you are praying for. I have had intense moments of prayer about deeply concerning moments and I have no doubt of God being present. It is a powerfull feeling.


--------------------
"People living deeply have no fear of death."
"Love the animals, love the plants, love everything. If you love everything, you will perceive the divine mystery in things. Once you perceive it, you will begin to comprehend it better every day. And you will come at last to love the whole world with an all-embracing love."
"Our problems are man-made, therefore they may be solved by man. No problem of human destiny is beyond human beings."


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Offlinesoulcircus
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Re: praying *DELETED* [Re: David_vs_Goliath]
    #5620046 - 05/12/06 03:10 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Post deleted by soulcircus

Reason for deletion: .



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Offlinemr_kite
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Re: praying [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5620345 - 05/12/06 08:17 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

When people pray and their deity/higher power rewards them with what they asked for, I cant help feeling sorry for all the poor bastards who get ignored. Favouritsm.


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let yourself be silently drawn by the stronger pull of what you really love


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: praying [Re: mr_kite]
    #5620498 - 05/12/06 09:30 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Did the ignored ones pray, and have enough faith?

It is currious how same people testify multiple answered prayers, while others can testify that they never got a prayer answered.

And of course the ones praying are favorites. If they weren't, then what's the point of praying?


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineGomp
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Re: praying [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5620590 - 05/12/06 10:00 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I think this post, might be of interest..

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5616622#Post5616622

He prayed and answered.. :wink::thumbup:

(got the)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: praying [Re: Gomp]
    #5620796 - 05/12/06 11:14 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

That's a cool one. But some don't get an answer, at least not one they can see. So why do you think that is Gomp? :wink:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibledblaney
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Re: praying [Re: Icelander]
    #5620854 - 05/12/06 11:27 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

"God works in mysterious ways!"


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: praying [Re: dblaney]
    #5620894 - 05/12/06 11:35 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

:rofl2: Thank's for that pat answer. What's your thoughts on the matter?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibledblaney
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Re: praying [Re: Icelander]
    #5620926 - 05/12/06 11:43 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

It's an interesting question. I think that most of the phenomena that people attribute to praying really comes about through psychological means. When someone prays for more money for instance, they're going to be more aware of money, and so will notice when they receive money much more than before, even though the amount of money they receive might not have changed at all. And, say, if someone is in a very bad state of mind, praying intensely can cause all sorts of changes, even as significant as complete surrender of the ego.

Then there is also the case of nuns and such. There was a study that someone posted on one of the boards around here about neurotheology or something like that, and it talked about brain scans done on transcendental meditators and nuns, both during moments which the subjects described as moments of "peak transcendence", and the brain scans turned up very similar results in brain activity, indicating that praying can be extremely similar in effects, and perhaps, is no different from meditation.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: praying [Re: dblaney]
    #5620973 - 05/12/06 11:52 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Now you're talking IMO. If it's true that we are co-creators of our life experience/reality then concentrating would be a most powerful tool to that end. Prayer may be a visualization technique that works depending on how good you are at it.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibledblaney
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Re: praying [Re: Icelander]
    #5621018 - 05/12/06 12:02 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Right on


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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Offlinesoulcircus
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Re: praying *DELETED* [Re: dblaney]
    #5622022 - 05/12/06 05:52 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Post deleted by soulcircus

Reason for deletion: .



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OfflineFospher
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Re: praying [Re: soulcircus]
    #5623332 - 05/12/06 11:41 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

soulcircus said:
IMO to have a prayer answered, you have to understand the nature of the answer and the nature of a prayer, you can pray all you want to no effect purely because you are still ignoring the nature to which the answer resides, in most basic terms, you cannot pray for money and hope to win the lottery,




In the same terms, is it immoral to pray for the health of our relatives and friends, because that's who you care about most, instead of a selfless prayer for the welfare of the people of the world? How about asking for money so you can help feed your starving child, is that immoral as well because of its selfish intention? What about money so I can buy vitamins, or just food in general to stay healthy? In that sense, you can keep blurring the opacity of your divisionary line of selflessness more and more until it comes right back to winning the lottery.

:shrug:

My understanding of prayer didn't come through Christianity. When I was 8 or so and my dad, brother and I prayed before a meal, I didn't think about the prayer at all, and just wanted to start eating, uttering mindless words.

Through research of other religions, I came to understand the nature of prayer. If you have impeccable intent as to why you are asking God for help, if your plea's nature is purification, then you will not go unheard.

The problem with the winning the lottery example, is that all that unearned money will most likely lead to habitual laziness, indolence, and gluttony. If your intentions are unpure, and why would God lead you to your own destruction?

Me? I pray. I pray for peace of mind, and the unity of my mind, body, and soul. I pray for my own sake. But it is not to make my life easier and live in leisure, it is to help me find strength to overcome indulgence in sin.


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010001100100001001000101!


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Offlineslaphappy
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Re: praying [Re: Fospher]
    #5729705 - 06/09/06 05:16 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

God doesn't like assholes/jerks/stupid people.

They remind him of himself.

Instead of drinking alcohol/pot/shrooms/insertrandomdrug to flee from himself, God created an antfarm and without regard for anything (hey, he's God, get over it) he chose his favorites after what traits of himself he saw, which he liked.

The people mostly ignored are the people claiming they are the people of God himself, chosen and proven by some old testament or scripture of some kind. They are so immensly forgotten by the man himself, that they create vast cult-like thought and behaviour patterns to direct themselves on the path of God and yell out:

CAN YOU FUCKING HEAR ME, OR WHAT!?!?!?

Being allmighty, God chooses not to answer those attention-demanding spoofs. He shifts his focus to the lively, the fun, the entertaining, the ... well ...

Me.


edit: I think in prayer.


--------------------
The argent messenger of truth beyond truth, the antithesis of life, cruel and bleak as interstellar space, pulseless and frozen as absolute zero, dazzling with the frost of irrefragable logic and unforgettable fact.


Edited by slaphappy (06/09/06 05:17 AM)


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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: praying [Re: slaphappy]
    #5729755 - 06/09/06 05:48 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I can't remember the last time I actually prayed......for anything.

All the answers I need, are already there (right in front of me, most of the time) I just have to look harder to find them.

I realized this, when I started meditating.

Asking God to solve your troubles is counterproductive.
God has put us here to learn.
How can you learn, if your always asking for assistance?

IMO prayer is nothing more than a spiritual placebo.

If you believe it will work....it will
If you don't believe it will work........it won't


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: praying [Re: niteowl]
    #5729778 - 06/09/06 06:01 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

niteowl said:
I can't remember the last time I actually prayed......for anything.

All the answers I need, are already there (right in front of me, most of the time) I just have to look harder to find them.

I realized this, when I started meditating.

Asking God to solve your troubles is counterproductive.
God has put us here to learn.
How can you learn, if your always asking for assistance?

IMO prayer is nothing more than a spiritual placebo.

If you believe it will work....it will
If you don't believe it will work........it won't




There was a funny thing that one woman described in her book about NDE. It is the longest and most detailed description of a NDE experience in history, her name was Sarah something, and I fogot the name of the book. But she came back with some many details that she filled an entire book with it.

One of the things she saw up there was some kind of a huge window. On the outside was space and earth. There were millions of beams of tight light comming from it, some were thicker and stronger, some were weaker.
Then her mentor, who she said was Jesus, explained to her that these are prayers, and that angels are dispatched for every prayer, but with priority, the strongest beams of light were the first ones to be taken care of.
The strong ones are the ones made through love, like when a mother prays for her child.

A lot of interesting things were revealed to her, like for example, she was toled that there is no reincarnation and that those are just memories of the collective human consciousness

And guess what, Jesus had a sense of humour as she says.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: praying [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5729845 - 06/09/06 06:33 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

From one point of view
We are praying (glowing/shining) all the time.
Only when we need gods help, does our glow (beam of tight light) get bright enuf to catch his eye


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future


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Offlineslaphappy
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Re: praying [Re: niteowl]
    #5729924 - 06/09/06 07:26 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Someone need to say this.

Praying isn't begging, and begging isn't praying.

You bastards! Resistance is futile!

Feel my wrath.


--------------------
The argent messenger of truth beyond truth, the antithesis of life, cruel and bleak as interstellar space, pulseless and frozen as absolute zero, dazzling with the frost of irrefragable logic and unforgettable fact.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: praying [Re: slaphappy]
    #5729934 - 06/09/06 07:35 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

So, true..

"..do not only wish [for], thank! [for] .. "
-Wenckhe's table..


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Offlineslaphappy
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Re: praying [Re: Gomp]
    #5729936 - 06/09/06 07:37 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Thanks, man.

:heart:


--------------------
The argent messenger of truth beyond truth, the antithesis of life, cruel and bleak as interstellar space, pulseless and frozen as absolute zero, dazzling with the frost of irrefragable logic and unforgettable fact.


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: praying [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5733322 - 06/10/06 05:46 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I think, for praying it doesn't matter, if it goes only for psychological influences, or to some greater metaphysical system, or to some spiritual personal god, as it opens communication channels to all these kinds, shuffeld in 'higher order'.
I think, they all resolve in the same 'effect', that what is prayed for, will happen, if some specific settings were followed.
Like insight, trust, believe, possibility, self or universality, for example and much more.
Therefore prayer as contemplation, meditation or similar is what merges 'samatha' into 'vipassana', melting the goal to the intend, from pure consideration into existence through ourselves.
Some meltingpoint of subjective to objective matter.

Sorry if this seems a bit cryptic :grin:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: praying [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #5733418 - 06/10/06 07:48 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

BlueCoyote said:
I think, for praying it doesn't matter, if it goes only for psychological influences, or to some greater metaphysical system, or to some spiritual personal god, as it opens communication channels to all these kinds, shuffeld in 'higher order'.
I think, they all resolve in the same 'effect', that what is prayed for, will happen, if some specific settings were followed.
Like insight, trust, believe, possibility, self or universality, for example and much more.
Therefore prayer as contemplation, meditation or similar is what merges 'samatha' into 'vipassana', melting the goal to the intend, from pure consideration into existence through ourselves.
Some meltingpoint of subjective to objective matter.

Sorry if this seems a bit cryptic :grin:




yea, I see what you are trying to say

I do feel that once you start praying for one thing, "miracles" start happening even in things you haven't asked for because it opens this channel of communication with both yourself and god.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: praying [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5733978 - 06/10/06 11:46 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

yes ! :thumbup:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: praying [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5734327 - 06/10/06 01:25 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Praying to me would be the equivalent of being in a state of giving thanks, appreciation and forgiveness.

Appreciation and for-giveness is powerful stuff that opens flows.

I regularly just engage in appreciating all I have, all yet to come my way, things of beauty I see along the way, life itself, and it seems the more I stay in appreciation for the good of life, and the good that comes others ways, the more it comes my way. Forgive the bad, and stay focussed on the good.

I read something once that aid, The Universal Powers that be, just love it when we feel appreciation here. When they see what makes us feel it, they like to send to more of it our way.

Look at how ungrateful and spoiled people are and all they take for granted, wanting more and more, its never enough, and they are rarely in a state of giving thanks (prayer). Then they wonder why prayers begging for something never get answered.Will they show thanks for it if it comes to pass, or will they not even recognize it answered in another form, or complain about its delivery? Most who never get prayers answered are that type.

They rarely say thank you for anything in life and if the words are muttered from their mouths, they are hollow and insincere, said just out of a social custom, no feeling behind them.

I'll share with you the real secret to it that most often goes rejected. It's having a sense of self worth, acceptance and deservance.  If you don;t believe you are worth or deserve having the good of life happen through you, where is the channel opening for it to come through you and into your experience?

It gets rejected because either, people have been programmed by those around them to believe, they aren't worth spit, deserve a sorry lot in life, OR they think feeling a sense of self worth and deservance is over inflated ego stuff, so they won't let them entertain such a thought.

It's not.

We all have been For-given all the good and wealth of the Kingdom. It's our divine inheritance. The problem is when there is one, is that, believe it or not, most people refuse it and won't accept it.

That's why there is so much power in giving thanks. We think we are suppose to say Thank you after we accept a gift. How many think to say thank you before they even come around? The true feeling of thanks goes hand in hand with the opening of the self to accept something.

Stay in the power of appreciation for all the good in existence and you stay open to accepting it and it just starts to flow in all on its own.

Anyone having struggles with self worth is someone who bought into the guilt machine trap.

Forgiveness is the key out of it.

I'll sum Jesus's message up here real simply-

The Father has forgiven you through me, meaning, Jesus came to let every know that original sin and the idea of wrong doing in general was Bullshit. He said, through him was the way into Heaven, Paradise, the Kingdom. What he meant by through him was through the power of forgiveness he came to teach us about.

To fore give means to give something beforehand. It's not like we sin, then have to feel guilt and then be forgiven. We already were for-given everything through the free will to choose from out of IT ALL for ourselves.

The Universe, Source, God, Angels whatever give to us in that spirit constantly. How well do we for give to ourselves and others? This means, giving before hand.

That is why I say there is great power o give thanks and being open to  acceptance before hand. Thats where the power is.

People pray foolishly like "God if you do this for me I will blah blah blah". UH UH!  Do good just because and good will start coming your way. Or they Pray, "God, give me a sign and I will believe in you"UH UH! :nono: Believe first with all your heart and soul and signs will appear everywhere. Or they pray, "If you don't help me out God, I will pee all over you." Uh Uh God/Source/All that is already gave us everything in potential. It's we that simply have to help ourselves by accepting it.

It's as silly as having a banana in your hand another gave to you, with no strings attached and walked away. Then you sit there yelling at them, "If you don't let me eat this , I will  throw it you and starve."

The dude that gave you the banana is like, "Whatever dude, Free Will. It's your choice to accept it as yours and eat from it or not." :shrug:

People who are also struggling with self worth issues are jamming up the root chakra. Find someone with horrible self worth, deserving good and self acceptance issues and you will also find someone struggling in survival mode. Thats what the first chakra regulates. You can move freely past survival mode issues and into greater ease of living when you just accept your worth and deservance of the good in life.

Listen to peoples self talk. Most are quick to accept losses into their life and bitch about them yet are those same people quick to accept all they have to be thankful for and express praise and appreciation of them.

Example- "Some Asswipe stole the stereo from my car :mad2:" Then they stew in that believing life just takes from them because they don;t deserve to have.

Where and when do you catch them saying instead, "Gee, I am so fortunate and blessed to even have this wonderful car to take me places in that people can take things from out of. I am so thankful for this car.

They say, "God took the only love I ever had away from me." :mad2: And they stew in it believing that are not worthy of love.

Where and when do you catch them saying, "I am so thankful for the time I had to know that persons love and to have shared mine with them. I am so thankful for all those who come in and out of my life to share in love with."

They say, "That Bastard cheated me out of MY promotion that I worked hard for"  :mad2: And they stew in it believing life is not fair and they do not deserve to rise within it.

Where and when do you catch them saying, "I am so thankful and blessed to have this job, that affords me all it does in life, that even provides me with the possibility of being promoted."

To sum this up, prayer to me is about being in a perpetual state of forgiveness to the self and others, and appreciation for all the good in life. It's about being at one with my divinity as a child spark from it and in acceptance of my inheritance.

The more I embrace making such prayer my way of life, the more I find, I want for nothing much, as life just keeps getting better and better all on its own. It's like Christ-mas morning that never ends and the love and warmth and good will and spirits of the season and gift giving just never ends.

If you say you have nothing in your life to be thankful for now, start giving thanks for the good to come. For- give it all to yourself and others now. Watch out for begrudging the good that comes to others. Be thankful for the good in their lives as well. That opens flows.  Accept it when it arrives at your door by keeping it open.

:peace: :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: praying [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5734458 - 06/10/06 02:17 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

"god, i love you. Help me to love you more. I know you god, help me to know you more deeply. Make me lord, a vessel of your peace. Where there is hatred, let me sow love. Where there is injury, pardon, where there is despair, hope, where there is anger, kindness. I submit myself to you utterly god. I devote my mind, body and soul into your keeping. You are he who giveth and who taketh away. What you give i recieve with gratitude, what you take away i give with love.

Let my every thought, word and action be dedicated and consecrated in you. I love you god. shine your light into the deepest corners of my soul. I reveal myself utterly to you. Fill me with your holy spirit. I am your servant, amen"

-moonshoes prayer


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: praying [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5734559 - 06/10/06 03:04 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

The Father has forgiven you through me, meaning, Jesus came to let every know that original sin and the idea of wrong doing in general was Bullshit.




He never said such a thing. If the idea of wrong doing is bullshit in his opinion, they why did he come to earth in the first place? To save people what? From being too good?

He said they should still obey the 10 laws, plus he gave them two new ones.

And he was the first one in Jewish religion to prophesise God's final judgement on human race.

While Jesus was himself forgiving and non-judgemental, his message was not that god is just the same, but that people should be like that.
While he taught that god can forgive anything if your repend, he never said that god stopped judging people.
In fact he warned people quite a few times of what happened to old Jews that go directly killed by god.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: praying [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5734629 - 06/10/06 03:34 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

WIZOLZ said:
I've prayed for many things, rarely observing whether it has happened or not, though, Im sure they have.




You are sure? I would be one to think that such an unknowing assumption as it relates to a signifigant, life-orientating belief that is also rooted in a rather distinct unknowning is only asking for trouble, especially considering the ramifications of having one's understanding of reality misaligned.

Quote:


I enjoy prayers of expression of my gratitude and thankfullness, of the worlds beauty and grace, for strength and courage towards positive ends, for others and their protection. Ive learned this is the correct way to approach prayer.




The correct way? For who? Prayer, as it would seem, is entirely a personal pursuit, its effects and the confirmation of its practice existing entirely within the realm of the person. If you are proposing that there is a correct way for others, beyond yourself, to pray, then you deserve to have such a position highly questioned. :grin:

Quote:


I've also had a tremendously transforming experience where I was in a rage and called out and almost instantly seeing results. So, it works on different levels I imagine.




It works on the level of affirmation and operating one's mind with more awareness of precisely what programming one is reciting. Internal dialogue is important in shaping ourselves and our perspective on reality.

Quote:


Also, most prayers, if not properly verbalized, umm or other variables, like the gratitude and humility factor..dont actually reach whatever diety you focus it towards.




I propose that the only deity that one is communicating with is oneself. Eh?

Quote:


Were not all given the right to speak to God




:lol:

Only the egotistically superior ones, right?

Personally, if someone has the right to speak to God, then they are granted that right as the result of their inability to appropriately reflect reality with their ability to reason. "God" isn't part of the equation. :smirk:

Quote:


Eventually though, prayer works if you pursue it and believe in its effectiveness.




Exactly. Any belief is effective if you tell yourself it is, engage in practicing the belief, not observe any results, and then tell yourself once again that it works. :lol:

One more for the road: :lol:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: praying [Re: David_vs_Goliath]
    #5734650 - 06/10/06 03:43 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

David_vs_Goliath said:
I have had intense moments of prayer about deeply concerning moments and I have no doubt of God being present. It is a powerfull feeling.




If you have no doubt that "God" was being present, then that, therein, is the problem. Humans have a tendency of equating "powerful feelings" with abstract concepts such as "God", and the fact is that a "powerful feeling" cannot reasonably justify a declaration of the nature of some aspect of reality.

Direct perception will provide oneself with a pure experience of that reality, but an abstract, mental sense of meaning of that experience of reality does not accompany the experience itself. It is a self-defined statement concerning an observation of reality. If the powerful, mental structure known as science has taught us anything (most effectively, through its successful application based on its representation of reality), we do not simply make assumptions that cannot be verified and make brazen proclamations of the nature of those assumptions.

I had a feeling, and it was God being present? "Intense moments of prayer about deeply concerning moments" sounds like bringing a higher degree of awareness within oneself. God was present? Nei, it sounds like you were present. :wink:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: praying [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5734651 - 06/10/06 03:44 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Read the Gospels of Mary Magdalene. The Church didn't include them in the Bible and it's easy to see why.

In it you will find that Jesus taught, there is no such thing as sin. He said, if there were to be such a thing, which there is not, the closest would be self betrayal. He equivalenced self betrayal to being in denial or betrayal of the Father/God/Divine within.

Believe in original sin and sin in general and guilt and punishment all you want too wood. I don't. I believe in fore-giveness and was just sharing how the idea of prayer works for me.

Did you notice in moon shoes prayer where he said, "Give with love what is taken from you." Anyone understand how powerful that is and contemplate why most find that to be one of the most difficult things to do, until you get into the flow of it? 

Besides, I think its in the book of John that Jesus says, "Judge not, lest you will be judged by the same measure you have judged others, but the Father does not Judge us." That means, God doesn't judge us, it is we who judge and punish ourselves and others.

What do the Ten Commandments have to do with guilt and feeling unworthy of the goodness in life?

Jesus taught us in his prayer, "Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us." This is an affirmation and statement of the way.

Everything comes from the Source and is Source. Why would it ever feel unworthy of itself or punish itself?

Here is what Jesus was saying when he said, if there were to be a thing as sin, which there is not, it would be self betrayal.

Say you have to go to work tomorrow and know that it is for your best good, interest and health and general well being, not to down that bottle of Vodka the night before.

Say you go against your best good and do it anyway. That would be his idea of sin if there was one. Now see, God has nothing to do with assigning a sin, guilt or punishment. The punishment will come from your own hand when you are puking your way through the job and feeling, like crap, or show up late or not at all and get fired and die young of liver damage if you make it habit.

You yourself may feel bad "guilty" for making that choice not serving your highest good. Thats where self forgiveness comes in. Use it and chose more wisely the next time. God has nothing to do with this stuff. We were for-given the free will to choose for ourselves, to go with good/god or against it. Choose to go against your highest good and that of others and see what happens.

If you want to believe anything to the contrary, then at least answer for me, how does a belief different from this understanding serve you in your highest good?
:peace: :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


Edited by gettinjiggywithit (06/10/06 03:49 PM)


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: praying [Re: soulcircus]
    #5734664 - 06/10/06 03:49 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

soulcircus said:
It was the ultimate cure nothing i could have thought possible, but because i prayed, and needed help so bad right then, i was helped




It sounds as though you helped yourself. Thoughts come to mind concerning the countless individuals who suffer from diseases such as cancer, fully realizing that they will soon perish, when no cure will save them, in desperate need of help right then, who simply suffered physically and eventually died.

Where was "God" then? Did they not pray hard enough, or in the "correct" way (which has already been expressed in this very thread :lol:)? There is no reason to be irrational about something that we do not understand the true nature of.

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: praying [Re: Fospher]
    #5734685 - 06/10/06 04:02 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Fospher said:
The problem with the winning the lottery example, is that all that unearned money will most likely lead to habitual laziness, indolence, and gluttony. If your intentions are unpure, and why would God lead you to your own destruction?




Indeed, why would God lead you to your own destruction?

*takes a look around the world, observing and contemplating the near endless amount of destruction permeating it*

I humbly propose that, if human beings would cease irrationally believing that there is an intelligence that is conducting all events, especially one that must be appealed to, perhaps they would realize that it is they who are (suspossedly) intelligent, and that they must actively engage in behavior that will cause effects that will transform reality in the manner that we seek. :shrug:

Perhaps if we would assume ultimate responsibility, as a collective race of human beings, and were to identify with our awareness as emanating from within the system that produces it and conducts it, we would seek some exponential growth, change, transcendence. Perhaps if we were to directly perceive reality for what it is, and to deeply immerse ourselves within our present experience of reality, as reality, we would actively pursue being the change that is necessary, and perhaps we would dissolve all of the unnecessary, obstructing abstraction, delusion, and ignorance that prevents us from being a higher form and conducting a higher degree of consciousness.

Perhaps? :rolleyes:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineSchwammel
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Re: praying [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5734697 - 06/10/06 04:09 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I'm a preying mantas


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: praying [Re: Schwammel]
    #5734703 - 06/10/06 04:11 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I do believe it is "mantis". :tongue:

Switching the vowels in two words to produce a certain effect is only effective if you initially spell the words correctly. :smirk:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: praying [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5734709 - 06/10/06 04:13 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
Read the Gospels of Mary Magdalene. The Church didn't include them in the Bible and it's easy to see why.

In it you will find that Jesus taught, there is no such thing as sin. He said, if there were to be such a thing, which there is not, the closest would be self betrayal. He equivalenced self betrayal to being in denial or betrayal of the Father/God/Divine within.

Believe in original sin and sin in general and guilt and punishment all you want too wood. I don't. I believe in fore-giveness and was just sharing how the idea of prayer works for me.

Did you notice in moon shoes prayer where he said, "Give with love what is taken from you." Anyone understand how powerful that is and contemplate why most find that to be one of the most difficult things to do, until you get into the flow of it? 

Besides, I think its in the book of John that Jesus says, "Judge not, lest you will be judged by the same measure you have judged others, but the Father does not Judge us." That means, God doesn't judge us, it is we who judge and punish ourselves and others.

What do the Ten Commandments have to do with guilt and feeling unworthy of the goodness in life?

Jesus taught us in his prayer, "Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us." This is an affirmation and statement of the way.

Everything comes from the Source and is Source. Why would it ever feel unworthy of itself or punish itself?

Here is what Jesus was saying when he said, if there were to be a thing as sin, which there is not, it would be self betrayal.

Say you have to go to work tomorrow and know that it is for your best good, interest and health and general well being, not to down that bottle of Vodka the night before.

Say you go against your best good and do it anyway. That would be his idea of sin if there was one. Now see, God has nothing to do with assigning a sin, guilt or punishment. The punishment will come from your own hand when you are puking your way through the job and feeling, like crap, or show up late or not at all and get fired and die young of liver damage if you make it habit.

You yourself may feel bad "guilty" for making that choice not serving your highest good. Thats where self forgiveness comes in. Use it and chose more wisely the next time. God has nothing to do with this stuff. We were for-given the free will to choose for ourselves, to go with good/god or against it. Choose to go against your highest good and that of others and see what happens.

If you want to believe anything to the contrary, then at least answer for me, how does a belief different from this understanding serve you in your highest good?
:peace: :heart:




I'm not saying anything about guilt, but in christianity every action has consequences.
And I'm the first one to say that Jehowah does not punish, but simply select that which he likes best.

But just because god is forgiving, does not mean that after Jesus he stopped caring wheather people sin or not. Otherwise he would not plan to destroy the world in the end, like Sodom and Gomorah, which are Jesus' words.

Quote:


how does a belief different from this understanding serve you in your highest good?




That's a utilitaristic question. Even the most usefull belief is worthless if it does not touch the truth


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineSchwammel
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Re: praying [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5734767 - 06/10/06 04:37 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
I do believe it is "mantis". :tongue:

Switching the vowels in two words to produce a certain effect is only effective if you initially spell the words correctly. :smirk:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:




You give me much more credit than I deserve...

I'm dyslexic


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: praying [Re: Schwammel]
    #5734795 - 06/10/06 04:48 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Schwammel said:
You give me much more credit than I deserve...

I'm dyslexic




If that were true, then your slinky would go up the stairs. :wink:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: praying [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5734804 - 06/10/06 04:51 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

That's sort of moving the discussion away from prayer and it's power and where that power comes from. I don't really want to go there with it being the focus. I'll clear a bit up from my POV.

When I used the word God, or even how I understand and used the J -mans use of it, I am talking about the Source of everything, not an entity being apart from us, but the beingness that makes up all of us and everything.

I brought up guilt because it runs contrary to what I found to be effective in any form of positive prayerful living and that is forgiveness and self worth based on the Divine spark within and acceptance of both.

Prayer to me can be summed up to positive affirmation and positive action which sums up to our sense of responce-ability achieved within our lives.

You know I believe that neurotic god being in the Bible to be just another ET, entity that came from out of source and creative evolution like we did. I'm not talking about a belief in that. I am talking about a belief in the Power of the Source all of this came out from and the spark within the self.

I know you suspect the Old Testament to have come from ET's as well, "We made man in our image" some were benevolent and some malevolent. You know the New testament is about Jesus coming to clear up all that was garbage from the malevolent, from his benevolent point of view, in the Old Testament.

The other thing people forget is that the New Testament is a collection of books written by many different MEN, and put together by men,  after Jesus left the physical plane.

It's not like he was there editing it and able to say, "This story is correct, I did do that and thats how it happened. That story is Bull, (Mary Magdalene being a whore) this is what really happened. I did say that, that was a good one, keep in in. I never said that, someone made that up and stuck my name to it, ditch it."

Anyway, I shared what I found to work for me.

That is, being in perpetual and sincere forgiveness, from the heart, for all the bad.

Also, being in perpetual and sincere thanksgiving, from the heart, for all the good, including what can come.

That's how I pray when I remember the place to be and when there, life is good and gets better.

When there I have nothing to ask for, just much I want to give and share.


Sincerity is the most important key in intentioning work. You have to really feel it and really believe it.

Don't take my word for it. Put it to the sincere test for yourselves.

:peace: :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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OfflineSchwammel
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Re: praying [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5734814 - 06/10/06 04:54 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

if i went up the stairs it wouldn't exist


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: praying [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5734816 - 06/10/06 04:54 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
It's not like he was there editing it and able to say, "This story is correct, I did do that and thats how it happened. That story is Bull, (Mary Magdalene being a whore) this is what really happened.




I think that the story of Mary Magdalene being a whore is much more erotic. :smirk:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: praying [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5734857 - 06/10/06 05:07 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Be that as it may,  ahem :wink::lol:  the Roman Catholic Church has admitted that, the story was in fact made up at a time, forget the century, when they were loosing followers and wanted to create a new draw. They thought the idea of Redemption was a good one. So they made it up that, Mary, who was actually very sane, sound and wise, also Jesus's closest confidant, was a crazy, whore possessed by demons, and the part about Jesus redeeming her from them.

They said it worked too. People came back to the church for redemption from their demons. :shrug: :lol:

:peace: :heart:


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: praying [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5734872 - 06/10/06 05:11 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

I know you suspect the Old Testament to have come from ET's as well, "We made man in our image" some were benevolent and some malevolent. You know the New testament is about Jesus coming to clear up all that was garbage from the malevolent, from his benevolent point of view, in the Old Testament.




but I don't think these are regular E.T.'s, but a race of white-bearded, highly spiritual beings that created everything on earth, and who answer to the Father, master of the universe. I think technology is only a secondary tool to them, and a ship to them is like a knife to us, and a knife really doesnt make us any less spiritual
Really my belief about extraterrestrials does not discredit any part of the bible. You might even say that this idea has sort of given me a religious rebirth, sort of baptised me by making sense of all the jewish scriptures in my head. You might even say I went orthodox because of this belief in aliens


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineSchwammel
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Re: praying [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5734899 - 06/10/06 05:20 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
Be that as it may,  ahem :wink::lol:  the Roman Catholic Church has admitted that, the story was in fact made up at a time, forget the century, when they were loosing followers and wanted to create a new draw. They thought the idea of Redemption was a good one. So they made it up that, Mary, who was actually very sane, sound and wise, also Jesus's closest confidant, was a crazy, whore possessed by demons, and the part about Jesus redeeming her from them.

They said it worked too. People came back to the church for redemption from their demons. :shrug: :lol:

:peace: :heart:




they said it in LATIN...

how many people speak LATIN?


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: praying [Re: Schwammel]
    #5735019 - 06/10/06 05:51 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

No. :lol: This admission came out recently from English speaking Arch Bishops in the RC Church.

:peace: :heart:


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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OfflineSchwammel
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Re: praying [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5735038 - 06/10/06 05:59 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Aremic to greek to latin to english? and the bishop said what?


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Offlineleery11
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Re: praying [Re: Schwammel]
    #5742405 - 06/12/06 04:03 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I find it is best to keep speaking to whoever the prayer is to until you run out of things to say.

In the process you will understand the intricacies and fitting togethers of things that you would otherwise ignore and not be aware of, as they are nestled in the subconscious.

It also allows you to eventually hone in on what you are really trying to say in the right way to say it, and brings about a peaceful feeling.

Now if I can be free from guilt...... people shouldn't feel like a little dog. I don't want to behave to avoid punishment, if I do something "wrong" I want to use my brain so that I figure out why it was wrong so I won't do it again. I want to behave because it's right.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


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