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DoctorJ


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All is forgiven
#5616711 - 05/11/06 11:02 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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but no one gets away with anything.
this is the nature of karma.
you will be forgiven for your sins, but not until you have balanced them out with right actions.
If it takes you one life or a hundred lives to do this, it doesn't matter. Go at your own pace.
But the smart thing would be to never sin in the first place!
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MushroomTrip
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Re: All is forgiven [Re: DoctorJ]
#5616749 - 05/11/06 11:17 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Then what learning value would this life have? And what would be it's purpose? Life is made to experiment, to find out for ourselves what's what. If we were never to sin there are two possibilities: the first in which we don't sin because we know what it means, we know what it causes and this means we've already been there, through life, meditation, etc and the second in which one feels the need to sin, and holding itself from it without being convinced, by forcing itself, which for me it has no value.
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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felix4life
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If we become conscious to our true nature, no longer identifying with the old mind made self who was suffering then there is no what some say karma.
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DoctorJ


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Re: All is forgiven [Re: felix4life]
#5617268 - 05/11/06 01:38 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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karma is a good program, and it will be kept going even after the destruction of planet earth, if that ever happens.
but yes, there are some beings who are above it.
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soulcircus
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Re: All is forgiven *DELETED* [Re: DoctorJ]
#5620050 - 05/12/06 03:14 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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OldWoodSpecter
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Re: All is forgiven [Re: DoctorJ]
#5620064 - 05/12/06 03:22 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
DoctorJ said: but no one gets away with anything.
this is the nature of karma.
you will be forgiven for your sins, but not until you have balanced them out with right actions.
If it takes you one life or a hundred lives to do this, it doesn't matter. Go at your own pace.
But the smart thing would be to never sin in the first place!
I believe you are comming from a christian perspective, right?
If that is so, then this really is not consistant with the teachings. In christianity, you are forgiven the same moment you regret and repend.
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
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DoctorJ


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Re: All is forgiven [Re: soulcircus]
#5620168 - 05/12/06 04:54 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
soulcircus said: doctor j what do you think happens after you are salvaged from your karma, nirvana, the end your finished for enternity? a new form of life in some other balance? ...? just curious as to your thoughts
then you do it all over again on the hard setting
thankfully, the game is different each time you play
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Icelander
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Re: All is forgiven [Re: DoctorJ]
#5620883 - 05/12/06 11:33 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
DoctorJ said: but no one gets away with anything.
this is the nature of karma.
you will be forgiven for your sins, but not until you have balanced them out with right actions.
If it takes you one life or a hundred lives to do this, it doesn't matter. Go at your own pace.
But the smart thing would be to never sin in the first place!
You speak as if you know this is true. But do you? In fact each person who believes basically what you believe will believe it just slightly different and all others have many shades of very different beliefs. Who made you the ultimate spokesman for reality/truth? Or is this just your current best guess like everyone else seems to be doing?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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fresh313
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Re: All is forgiven [Re: Icelander]
#5621169 - 05/12/06 12:37 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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do u know anything thats true ? , i dont. everything is just my best guess, so ill give u my best guesses u give me yours and thats the best we can do.
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fresh313
journeyman


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Re: All is forgiven [Re: DoctorJ]
#5621173 - 05/12/06 12:38 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
DoctorJ said: karma is a good program, and it will be kept going even after the destruction of planet earth, if that ever happens.
but yes, there are some beings who are above it.
how do some beings rise above karmic nature?
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Cepheus
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Re: All is forgiven [Re: fresh313]
#5621484 - 05/12/06 02:29 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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enlightenment is the ultimate goal of karma.
-------------------- "I only ever hope to reach equilibrium, in Nature's matrix, in line with the meridian" ~ Jehst
"...and I know that I have to keep breathing, as tomorrow the sun will rise, who knows what the tide will bring?" Free Spore Ring Europe Send any spare spore prints you might have and help the distribution
Open Source. Freedom. GNU/Linux Addicting is not a word.
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Silversoul
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Re: All is forgiven [Re: fresh313]
#5621497 - 05/12/06 02:33 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
fresh313 said:
Quote:
DoctorJ said: karma is a good program, and it will be kept going even after the destruction of planet earth, if that ever happens.
but yes, there are some beings who are above it.
how do some beings rise above karmic nature?
divine grace
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Icelander
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Re: All is forgiven [Re: DoctorJ]
#5621532 - 05/12/06 02:52 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
DoctorJ said: but no one gets away with anything.
this is the nature of karma.
you will be forgiven for your sins, but not until you have balanced them out with right actions.
If it takes you one life or a hundred lives to do this, it doesn't matter. Go at your own pace.
But the smart thing would be to never sin in the first place!
I just find this hard to believe from experience. Learning does happen but there is no perfect balance to it and there is no concern for human values. That's my opinion.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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soulcircus
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Re: All is forgiven *DELETED* [Re: DoctorJ]
#5621989 - 05/12/06 05:41 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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DoctorJ


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Re: All is forgiven [Re: soulcircus]
#5622039 - 05/12/06 05:58 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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if you want to.
nirvana gets boring after awhile.
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fireworks_god
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Re: All is forgiven [Re: DoctorJ]
#5622254 - 05/12/06 06:53 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Cause and effect.
*silence*
 Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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fireworks_god
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Re: All is forgiven [Re: DoctorJ]
#5622296 - 05/12/06 07:01 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
DoctorJ said: if you want to.
nirvana gets boring after awhile.
That makes a lot of sense. 
Boredom = a state of being unsatisfaction with reality.
Now, I would pretty much think that someone in nirvana would not be capable of boredom, as they would be above such an ignorant state.
But hell, what do you mean when you say nirvana? Maybe its some definition I've never heard of? Here's the dictionary for a quick reference:
Quote:
nir·va·na Audio pronunciation of "nirvana" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (nîr-vän, nr-) n.
1. often Nirvana 1. Buddhism. The ineffable ultimate in which one has attained disinterested wisdom and compassion. 2. Hinduism. Emancipation from ignorance and the extinction of all attachment. 2. An ideal condition of rest, harmony, stability, or joy.
Hhhm... no attachment (thus, nothing could ever leave an attachment unfufilled, resulting in boredom )... an ideal condition of harmony... yes.... how positively boring... 
It would sort of be like moving into a new town, and finally learning all of the roads and how to get from one's house to work, from one's house to the restaurant, etc. etc... wow, I'm bored knowing this, let's stick this in my brain and forget about it! 
Understanding = never boring. Why? Because you understand.
Shall I rant on? 
 Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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MushroomTrip
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Re: All is forgiven [Re: DoctorJ]
#5622403 - 05/12/06 07:28 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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dude, do you even know what you're talking about?
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


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It's not PC to ask such questions.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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DoctorJ


Registered: 06/30/03
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Quote:
MushroomTrip said: dude, do you even know what you're talking about?
do you?
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


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Re: All is forgiven [Re: DoctorJ]
#5622686 - 05/12/06 08:35 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Good one dude.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Cherk
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Re: All is forgiven [Re: DoctorJ]
#5622713 - 05/12/06 08:40 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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A spiritual leader I look to for guidance is one who can answer all of the tough questions thrown at him without eluding to the thought that he/she is more enlightened than the person asking the question.
--------------------
I have considered such matters. SIKE
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DoctorJ


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Re: All is forgiven [Re: Icelander]
#5622714 - 05/12/06 08:40 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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well if everyone knew what they were talking about, then they wouldn't be talking at all. 
we've all reached nirvana at some point.
some of us come back to help others find it.
some of us come back to challenge ourselves.
some of us come back to take a vacation 
some of us fucked a lot of people over in our climb to the top and are forced to go back and do it the right way.
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Icelander
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Re: All is forgiven [Re: Cherk]
#5622721 - 05/12/06 08:41 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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That's one cool customer.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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DoctorJ


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Re: All is forgiven [Re: Cherk]
#5622732 - 05/12/06 08:43 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Smoker For Peace said: A spiritual leader I look to for guidance is one who can answer all of the tough questions thrown at him without eluding to the thought that he/she is more enlightened than the person asking the question.
I don't see why anyone would want to be a follower or a leader.
leaders are surrounded by schmucks and followers are schmucks.
no thanks to both for me.
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Cherk
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Re: All is forgiven [Re: DoctorJ]
#5622771 - 05/12/06 08:52 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
DoctorJ said: #5605649 - 05/08/06 04:35 PM
excuse me for trying to enlighten someone, or making them see things another way. Truly, I have erred. From now on, I'll just keep my mouth shut and let the world slide further into oblivion, one soul at a time.
How can you enlighten someone without guidance?
If you are not proclaiming spiritual authority then why will you not answer (edit:) some of the questions in this thread?
--------------------
I have considered such matters. SIKE
Edited by Smoker For Peace (05/12/06 08:59 PM)
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fireworks_god
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Re: All is forgiven [Re: DoctorJ]
#5622793 - 05/12/06 08:55 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
DoctorJ said:
Quote:
Smoker For Peace said: A spiritual leader I look to for guidance is one who can answer all of the tough questions thrown at him without eluding to the thought that he/she is more enlightened than the person asking the question.
I don't see why anyone would want to be a follower or a leader.
leaders are surrounded by schmucks and followers are schmucks.
no thanks to both for me.
Are you even aware of the concept of leadership?
 Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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DoctorJ


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you do realize what perfection is, right?
nothingness.
think about it. In a perfect world, nothing happens, because it is not necessary for anything to happen.
we must all oscillate between the light and the dark, otherwise we get too used to one or the other, or we get bored with one or the other.
really, light and dark are the same thing, but only those who are grey beings- above the karmic fracas- truly realize that.
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DoctorJ


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Quote:
fireworks_god said:
Are you even aware of the concept of leadership?
 Peace.
"Heaven and Earth is not sentimental. It treats all things as straw-dogs.
The sage is not sentimental. He treats all people as straw-dogs.
He rears them, but lays no claim to them.
He does his work, but he sets no store by it.
Truly, he prefers what is within to what is without."
Why lead when you can create?
Edited by DoctorJ (05/12/06 09:04 PM)
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fireworks_god
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Re: All is forgiven [Re: DoctorJ]
#5622852 - 05/12/06 09:06 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
DoctorJ said: think about it. In a perfect world, nothing happens, because it is not necessary for anything to happen.
I would not describe this as being a reasonable line of thought. Something doesn't happen because it is not perfect. "Lacking nothing essential to the whole, complete of its nature or kind". A whole isn't nothing, and being complete doesn't mean that one is nothing. 
Quote:
we must all oscillate between the light and the dark, otherwise we get too used to one or the other, or we get bored with one or the other.
Once again, this doesn't make sense. "Light" and "dark" are arbitrary, illusory distinctions that do not represent reality as it exists. Reality simply is.
I already addressed the bullshit boring claim. You didn't address my assertion. It simply does not make any sense. It is inherently flawed.
Quote:
really, light and dark are the same thing, but only those who are grey beings- above the karmic fracas- truly realize that.
Well, maybe you have a point here, the only people who are struggling with such distinctions are the ones who are interpreting reality through these distinctions.
However, that would mean that your statement that we must all oscillate through false, illusory distinctions of a singular reality and experience in order to not be bored or whatever is bullshit.
 Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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DoctorJ


Registered: 06/30/03
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oh, enlightened benevolent master, teach me more!
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


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Re: All is forgiven [Re: DoctorJ]
#5622913 - 05/12/06 09:20 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Exactly. Why sprout bullshit if you can't back it up and demonstrate one's understanding?
 Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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DoctorJ


Registered: 06/30/03
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nothing is everything and everything is nothing
if you don't understand this, I would advise you to put a 9mm glock to your head, pull the trigger, and figure it out yourself.
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Fospher
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Zen is impossible to explain, whoever says that he understands it is lying to you. This is so because what you are trying to understand is the exact opposite of reason, and cannot be explained through rational terms. Some things can't be explained through language because they cannot be understood with words.
Maybe you'll come to understand it once you blow out a candle in Tokyo from your computer chair. Or explain with reason whether a falling tree makes a sound if there's no one to hear it.
Don't get me wrong, I haven't grasped it either, but of what I do understand has made me a much happier person.
One time a monk asked Zhaozhou, "Does a dog have Buddha-nature or not?" Zhaozhou answered, "No." Another time, a monk asked Zhaozhou, "Does a dog have Buddha-nature or not?" Zhaozhou answered, "Yes."
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DoctorJ


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Re: All is forgiven [Re: Fospher]
#5623820 - 05/13/06 09:17 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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fresh313
journeyman


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Re: All is forgiven [Re: DoctorJ]
#5624096 - 05/13/06 10:26 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
DoctorJ said: nothing is everything and everything is nothing
if you don't understand this, I would advise you to put a 9mm glock to your head, pull the trigger, and figure it out yourself.
dont forget to fill out your organ donor card
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MushroomTrip
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Re: All is forgiven [Re: DoctorJ]
#5625570 - 05/13/06 06:39 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
DoctorJ said:
Quote:
Smoker For Peace said: A spiritual leader I look to for guidance is one who can answer all of the tough questions thrown at him without eluding to the thought that he/she is more enlightened than the person asking the question.
I don't see why anyone would want to be a follower or a leader.
leaders are surrounded by schmucks and followers are schmucks.
no thanks to both for me.
I think you have to know that there ARE people which you can learn valuable lessons. As well as somebody else has to learn something from you. And I think you just got a little brain washed by this modern campaign " don't let anybody else rule the way you live" that you came to the point of making a big confusion between being manipulated and learning from wise people. I've noticed that at some people and I think it's because they somehow feel ashamed that somebody else is "giving them lessons". Well there in nothing in that, in admitting that you don't know many things and you need to know about them. Because that kind of attitude is very close to the common ignorance and it's the one who stops us from evolving. Having a spiritual leader doesn't necessarily means that your life, way of thinking and actions are being dictated by somebody else, it's more like the kind of person that poses you questions by the power of example, helping you to get there on your own and with your own drawn conclusions.
--------------------
   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


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big confusion between being manipulated and learning from wise people.
Good point. You didn't really figure out anything for yourself and that includes speach. Someone taught you. We build on learning from each other.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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leery11
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Re: All is forgiven [Re: Icelander]
#5636885 - 05/16/06 09:58 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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i kind of think sin is an artificial construct designed to trap you in guilt.
there are wrong actions. and when you commit them you know they are wrong. you do not need a rigid doctrine to expound upon this.
I suppose some people may not have a moral compass. But generally I think the eightfold path, the precepts, and the 4 noble truths set up a better guideline.... they don't so much say "don't live this way or you'll go to hell for being a SINNER" they say "there is a way to live in which you do not bring harm upon yourself or other people..... live this way and live it mindfully."
I mean. I could sin, conceivably... by writing this couldn't it? What if it were blasphemous to the highest Divine? But if it is then I do not intend to write it. Or what if I have long hair? Is that sinful? Is it sinful to not have a clean hygiene?
Sin is very black and white, but I feel like the Buddhist approach to karma and right/wrong is much easier to digest and less prone to inducing guilt. Am I using right speech when writing this? I am not sure. I do not think it will be offensive or harmful for others to read.
Is it based upon right thought? Well not really because I haven't contemplated this issue deeply enough to firmly know what I am talking about. I am just expounding observations which, perhaps could be construed as wrong.
Mindfulness is the antidote to sin.... Thich Nhat Hanh states that mindfulness and the holy spirit are the same thing in his book "Living Buddha, Living Christ." which is a pretty good read.
-------------------- I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human...... Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
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