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monstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work


Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay
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Birthing Cakes Early
#5615395 - 05/10/06 10:50 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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if using cakes or wbs and spawning to bulk substrate is it possible to spawn before colonization is complete?
Never chanced it before, but I was wondering if I could get away with it seeing how it's just going into a another substrate of bulk material to re-colonize.
Is higher rate of contams really the only risk here or am I too tired and missing something obvious?
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TheFish
Shakedown Street


Registered: 10/07/03
Posts: 440
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
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I will speak from very recent experience that birthing early creates a substantial risk for contams. 10-15% of my casings colonized well with a semi-even pinset, and the other 85-90% suffered from contams.
My most recent casings with fully colonized cakes in the same environment suffered no contams at all.
It's enough to convince me.
-------------------- "Comes a time when the blind man takes your hand, Says, 'Don't you see?' Gotta make it somehow on the dreams you still believe. Don't give it up. You got an empty cup only love can fill." Jerry Garcia
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musher_420
Stranger

Registered: 08/01/05
Posts: 2,691
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It's no problem really. As long as you make sure you remove all the uncolonized portions. Of course it would be best to allow enough time for full colonization. But sometimes due to dry portions of my grain I will just spawn what I have and leave the rest behind.
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monstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work


Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay
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Re: Birthing Cakes Early [Re: musher_420]
#5615682 - 05/10/06 11:54 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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A couple of other chime in's would be nice. So far I have:
don't do it in fear of contams...safety first, and
go ahead, just throw away the uncolonized substrate.
any other experience with this by anyone? I'd be mixing the spawn directly into a bulk substrate and re-incubating, the grain would be well shaken and the brf cakes would be well broken up. How would a less than 100% colonization of the cake/grain make this an issue??
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skeletor
the dude
Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 1,235
Loc: heaven on earth
Last seen: 17 years, 4 months
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its risky. then only way it will work is if you get off all the uncolonized bits. only colonized subtrate is resistant to contams. any bit of substrate exposed to open air is almost garenteerd to contam then this contam will spread. but again ive saved to stalled cakes never had a grain jar stall but teh same princible would apply i assume.
-------------------- im sorry about your mother. She was a terrible attrative woman. Get back to nature; hunting burgers and gathering fries.
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monstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work


Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay
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Re: Birthing Cakes Early [Re: skeletor]
#5615865 - 05/11/06 12:35 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Nothing is stalling at all, just wondering if I could cut a corner. Got bonnaroo coming up and that is alot of traveling, I'll be gone two weeks and need to go now or after type of deal. I think my fridges (all 6 of them) are going to be jam packed of mycelium waiting to do it's thing.
I'm a safety first type of guy and I see your guy's point about uncolonized sterilized substrate...
So this must mean that what will contam the deal will be what is killed in the sterilization process that is left behind in the pasteurizing process. Or better yet what is left behind for "good" bacteria in the pasteurization process will be protecting the bulk substrate from contams but the uncolonized sterilized spawn will not have this "good" bacteria and will fall victim to the monsters.
I believe I'm leaning towards just letting everything colonize if someone else would agree on the above statement on "good" bacteria. I'd rather spawn, but no need to waste anything due to haste.
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DaveTX
Stranger


Registered: 04/01/06
Posts: 262
Last seen: 17 years, 6 months
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Re: Birthing Cakes Early [Re: skeletor]
#5615867 - 05/11/06 12:35 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I agree with musher_420's post about the early scrape the left overs off and keep the rest technique.
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Civ
Pinning


Registered: 10/14/04
Posts: 2,537
Loc: California
Last seen: 6 months, 18 days
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Quote:
But sometimes due to dry portions of my grain I will just spawn what I have and leave the rest behind
Quote:
I'd be mixing the spawn directly into a bulk substrate and re-incubating, the grain would be well shaken and the brf cakes would be well broken up. How would a less than 100% colonization of the cake/grain make this an issue??
That wont be a problem at all. Just discard all un-colonized substrate. You can take a jar of wheat and crack it open at 50% colonization for caseing if need.. or grain too grain transfers.
If your worried about contams, try some h202 and sterilized water in a small bowl and toss in your colonized crumbs and watch em fizz up; remove when the actions done and toss em into some ready spawn or more jars. I still loose 1 outa 5 of my g2gs with that method, but don't mind.
Civ
Edited by Civ (05/11/06 02:34 AM)
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monstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work


Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay
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Re: Birthing Cakes Early [Re: Civ]
#5616429 - 05/11/06 08:29 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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thaks civ, but picture this, your highlighted quote...
The spawn is going to get mixed 100% before being exposed to air, the jar will be shaken or the cake will be broken up in a glove box...
so how do I know what is colonized and what isn't?
once a cake or grain is broken up real good, you can't really tell what is colonized and what isn't.
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skeletor
the dude
Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 1,235
Loc: heaven on earth
Last seen: 17 years, 4 months
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open the cake and cut up the uncolonize patts then slip it into a ziplock and crumble the shit out of it then its fine to spawn.
i still don't see why you just don't wait for it to be 100%. if its not stalling its not a shortcut at all beucase you will just get less mushrooms. itsa frairly silly think to bother dealing with unless something is stalled and you must do it.
-------------------- im sorry about your mother. She was a terrible attrative woman. Get back to nature; hunting burgers and gathering fries.
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monstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work


Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay
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Re: Birthing Cakes Early [Re: skeletor]
#5616823 - 05/11/06 11:36 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Yeah, this not a question I would ever normally ask... I know to wait until 100%. I'm going to bonnaroo and need to do things now, or wait until I get back. I was thinking of setting it up so that my first flush was harvested right before going and the second flush would be going on while I was in the U.S. at that great event. That is all, but I think I will air on the side of caution, let the jars fully colonize, spawn them to bulk, let that colonize a bit and refridgerate the colonizing bulk trays awaiting my return.
If I spawned to bulk today I could have a flush completed by bonnaroo and be back just in time to harvest the second flush. This would require spawning to bulk early, hence the question.
Are you sure about the less mushrooms thing? I will be fully colonizing a bulk tray, so why would it matter if the spawn is 100% or not? Wouldn't it just take maybe a day or so longer and produce the exact same amount of mushies??
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