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Invisible_stimulus_
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Registered: 05/03/06
Posts: 24
more Weraroa novaezealandiae and a sub pin
    #5614506 - 05/10/06 07:44 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

hiya here's some pics of my recent finds..



and an attempt at a spore print:





just can't seem to get a nice print from the weraroa.. nice blue staining though eh? yum..

well if anyone has ideas regarding doing a spore print of the weraroa, please do tell.. i'm guessing they must get eaten by the wee insects, die and rot and distribute spores that way.. maybe its impossible to do obtain spores before they're rotting


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Invisibleshroomydan
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Re: more Weraroa novaezealandiae and a sub pin [Re: _stimulus_]
    #5614980 - 05/10/06 09:32 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Wow, those things sure are ugly.  :laugh:


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OfflineMagicalKnife
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Re: more Weraroa novaezealandiae and a sub pin [Re: shroomydan]
    #5615011 - 05/10/06 09:39 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I feel sorry for that pin. Won't be able to mature and have sex :mushroom2:


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?


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InvisibleFeanor
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Re: more Weraroa novaezealandiae and a sub pin [Re: MagicalKnife]
    #5615046 - 05/10/06 09:46 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Whao... that last picture looks remarkably like a tadpole... or a sperm!

Eat it fresh, and it'll taste quite crunchy.


--------------------

May Terence McKenna Live Long

The DMT Chronicles


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InvisibleshroominDole
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Re: more Weraroa novaezealandiae and a sub pin [Re: Feanor]
    #5615080 - 05/10/06 09:52 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Caution......DONT EAT THAT!


--------------------
Worlds Largest 'Liberty Cap' (Cali Libs Confirmed !)
' Comments On Hallucinogenic Agarics And The Hallucinations Of Those Who Study Them '
Alexander H. Smith
Mycologia vol.69 1977


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OfflineFeelers
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Re: more Weraroa novaezealandiae and a sub pin [Re: shroominDole]
    #5615624 - 05/10/06 11:41 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

What are those weraroas like to eat? Are they fleshy or are they more hollow?
Better/worse than subs? Did you get an idea of how potent they are?


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OfflineoO_wombat_Oo
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Re: more Weraroa novaezealandiae and a sub pin [Re: Feelers]
    #5615747 - 05/11/06 12:06 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Gross I wouldn't eat them just on general principle. They look like rotting dog's scrotums. I read your trip report though ... weird.

Interesting finds though.


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OfflineoO_wombat_Oo
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Re: more Weraroa novaezealandiae and a sub pin [Re: oO_wombat_Oo]
    #5615771 - 05/11/06 12:10 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

P.S. you were right about insects dispersing the spores, you won't be able to get a spore print from them (I guess):

"Genus: Weraroa

This genus of fungi are referred to as sequestrate fungi which means that they have lost there ability to forceful eject there spores. In stead they relies on insects and birds to eat and disperse them." - http://www.hiddenforest.co.nz/fungi/family/strophariaceae/strophariaceae.htm#novaezelandiae


What do you want the spores for anyway? You could possibly cultivate some mycelium by putting a clean piece of flesh into a liquid-tek thingy. Or agar.


Edited by oO_wombat_Oo (05/11/06 12:12 AM)


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InvisibleinskiM
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Re: more Weraroa novaezealandiae and a sub pin [Re: _stimulus_]
    #5616134 - 05/11/06 02:11 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Nice Weraroa novaezelandiae specimens, what size are those biggest ones?
I would dry the best ones with no bug holes or rotten areas without heat, use a desiccant like silica gel. Then you have spores inside a hopefully quit sterile pouch :cool:
Or if you have the right equipment you could try cloning a fresh specimen!!!
inski.


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OfflineFeelers
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Re: more Weraroa novaezealandiae and a sub pin [Re: inski]
    #5616217 - 05/11/06 02:46 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

You can always make a clone from a dried specimen also.


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OfflineFeelers
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Re: more Weraroa novaezealandiae and a sub pin [Re: Feelers]
    #5616244 - 05/11/06 03:07 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

So what habitat are you guys finding them in? Temps soil makeup ect.

I'm thinking we should embark on a PF tek with these bastards, for science!  :headbanger:

They are so weird. Stim can you compare them to normal active mushrooms(in terms of the trip)?


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Invisible_stimulus_
sympatheticvibrator

Registered: 05/03/06
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Re: more Weraroa novaezealandiae and a sub pin [Re: oO_wombat_Oo]
    #5616311 - 05/11/06 05:34 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

heh.. churz fr replys

Inski - that is an A4 sheet of paper the biggest one was about as long as a matchbox.. yeh good idea to keep it in the pouch

oO_wombat_Oo - initialy ddn't have _much_ interest in cultivation really, someone else is interested in a spore print.. btw wouldn't u consider sampling dog-scrotum if it contained hallucinogens? (god forbid!)

Feelers- the pouch has a rubbery consistency and feels quite strong when cutting through it. the insides have brown gill-like structures and a stalk running through the middle up to the top of the pouch. haven't taken any normal active mushrooms in years (they must've been libertys tho), i wasn't paying enough attention back then to do a comparison.. will be trying a larger dose quite soon though so will report on how that goes :wink:

re cultivation, my thumbs are damn near purple, but know some ppl more adept at making plants grow succesfully (the legal type! hehe)

also do u ppl reckon these things contain psilo..er..psilosin..psilocybin (right word?!) ? how to verify this?


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OfflineFeelers
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Re: more Weraroa novaezealandiae and a sub pin [Re: _stimulus_]
    #5616319 - 05/11/06 05:59 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

They should do, after all you tripped off them. :laugh:

They are supposedly an ancestor or relative of subs - noone really knows the exact family trees of such things without DNA analysis.

Perhaps the ratios of the two active chemicals are outa whack, so they might have an individualised trip, although its probably most similar to subs.

As to how to verify it, you kinda have already. Although theres no conclusive proof on whats causing the activness - the fact that they go blue is a very good indicator of psilocybin(I can never remember which it is) oxidising.
(which is why nearly all actives go blue)

I might try a casing with this thing - and if it goes well perhaps the next psilocybe strain to hit the market could be "Dogs Bollocks" none of this "Dancing Tigers" stuff haha.

Exciting times. :thumbup:


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OfflineoO_wombat_Oo
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Re: more Weraroa novaezealandiae and a sub pin [Re: Feelers]
    #5616331 - 05/11/06 06:17 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Man that's crazy that you ate them without knowing what was in them!!

I just assumed you knew already they contained psilocybin and were safe to eat. Damn that's a risky way to find out if they're active or not! (i.e. eating them!)

Is there anything in old Maori legend or anything about them that you are aware of?


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Invisible_stimulus_
sympatheticvibrator

Registered: 05/03/06
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Re: more Weraroa novaezealandiae and a sub pin [Re: oO_wombat_Oo]
    #5616418 - 05/11/06 08:14 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

heh wombat, yeah guess i did take a risk.. there's not much info about them on the web..

how does one find out which active compounds are present? (including toxins)

don't know if they're mentioned in maori legends


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Offlinethosemynikes
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Re: more Weraroa novaezealandiae and a sub pin [Re: _stimulus_]
    #5616728 - 05/11/06 11:09 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

what those things are active?


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Invisible_stimulus_
sympatheticvibrator

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Re: more Weraroa novaezealandiae and a sub pin [Re: thosemynikes]
    #5616858 - 05/11/06 11:47 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

yeh i'm pretty sure they'r active.. But I don't recommend that anyone ingests them!
haha the more i look at them the uglier they appear..mongrels..

i wonder whether they are a relatively rare species.. and whether one should think of conservation, esp considering they actually need to rot and drop to the ground to distribute spores..
they don't grow in large patches.. tend to be metre(s) apart and only 1 - 3 growing in each spot.  also in the same forest, they tended to be easiest to find within a 400m radius, and practically none found beyond that. There was a noticable change in the foliage, but i'd have to explain with photos as i don't know much about identifying plants..
they grow on rotting twigs/wood and are usually half buried under rotting leaves..

i'm sure they must have many intricate symbiotic relationships because they seem quite retarded physically.. life is pain so why bother having sex when you can just die and be reborn :tongue2:

but yeh cultivation should definitely be explored as an alternative to pickin them wild i reckon (esp. if they turn out to be quite a nice kind of active)..

oh yeah, is it bad that they turn dark blue whilst drying? do subs do this? does this mean they've lost a lot of potency?  i understand now that when the psilocybin is oxidised it is alas no more..


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InvisibleGumby
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Re: more Weraroa novaezealandiae and a sub pin [Re: _stimulus_]
    #5616943 - 05/11/06 12:03 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I'd be anxious to see what the chemical make up of these things is. In order to do that you'd need to find someone with a really expensive and elaborate lab set up. You'd need either a mass spectrometer or a gas chromotographer, or both. Most active mushrooms contain varied amounts of psilocybin, psilocin, baeocystin and norbaeocystin.

As it was said before... the blue bruising reaction occurs from the oxidation of psilocybin. In this case we know it is psilocybin because you have confirmed that they are active. There are other chemicals in mushrooms that oxidize blue, but it's a differen't shade of blue in other mushrooms.

The fact that they dried dark blue is weird. If you didn't handle them too much, the psilocybin shouldn't have oxidized. Maybe all their cells ruptured during the drying process for some reason?


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Invisible_stimulus_
sympatheticvibrator

Registered: 05/03/06
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Re: more Weraroa novaezealandiae and a sub pin [Re: Gumby]
    #5617116 - 05/11/06 12:55 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

yeah, likely to have been handling them too roughly

the collection prior to the one pictured above consisted of one 2cm diameter and fifteen >=1cm diameter. these were cut open and left in a vented enclosure 20cm under the glare/heat of a 75w lightbulb to dry (seems stupid in retrospect) for more than 24 hours.

the amount taken to induce the trip described in trip report forum was  the 2cm + 7 of th smaller ones.
a few nights later the remaining 8 were divided amongst 4 friends for the hell of it (ie. 2 tiny ones each!) and ingested by cutting+mixing with cups of tea.
everyone felt a mild warm "floating" feeling half an hour after ingestion.. delayed ingesting for a few minutes and noticed that i felt the effects a few minutes after everyone else (rather than a collective "woah this feels funny") this lasted for about an hour and despite being dead tired, my friend and i both had trouble getting to sleep that night (ie. felt like the effects of a long lasting stimulant)..

this collection could be bruising so blue due to cutting most of them in half in order to speed up the drying process and prevent rotting/insect decay on the inside.. but the bruising is occuring all over even on the smaller whole ones
just cool fan drying tho, no lightbulbs this time :smile:
probably going overkill with the cutting business, its probably not even necesary..


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OfflineFeelers
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Re: more Weraroa novaezealandiae and a sub pin [Re: _stimulus_]
    #5618156 - 05/11/06 05:12 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

There is supposedly no evidence that the Maori knew of or used magic mushrooms. Actually I remember someone saying they are one of the only "ancient" cultures not to use mind altering substances (dont know how true that statement is).

I found what I realise now was very similar to these up in Arthers Pass, but bright purple. (not active obviously but perhaps a relative)
Brown on the inside too - gross as when they are rotting!

Stimulus wasnt flying totally blind when he took them - there were existing unverified reports that they were active. Thankfully it all came up roses. :thumbup: I dunno if I'd be that eager!

Stim my subs always bruise blue when I dry them, but I spose I handle them a fair bit.


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: more Weraroa novaezealandiae and a sub pin [Re: Feelers]
    #5623090 - 05/12/06 10:09 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

So would you consider them to be more potent than subs? Can anyone of you guys get a clone of that for me? :smile:


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Offlinebluntskies
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Re: more Weraroa novaezealandiae and a sub pin [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #5659128 - 05/22/06 03:23 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I took these last weekend and got very strong efects but no visuals, my vision was distorted and I had trouble seeing a meter in front of me, I didn't really enjoy that.. (reminded me of being kind of cross eyed except I couldn't go back to normal vision) watching tv was impossible, I had to focus extremly hard and even then I would lose focus. Walking was difficult too, several times I lost balance. Oh and I couldn't judge distance at times, ie placing something on the ground  was really quite hard. My eyes were very heavy and felt really whack.

I ate about 20, about 60-70 grams wet. I remember the room felt quite alive and a hint of breathing at the peak, overall a good and bad trip. Had times where I felt sort of vulnerable to people and the world. Got quite intense at times, but a few bongs helped.

I haven't tried subs yet, but hope to eventually to see the difference.

So to top that off I would say that these mushrooms give quite an intoxicated feeling which was unpleasent at times, dissapointed at no visuals too :frown:


Edited by bluntskies (05/22/06 03:25 AM)


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: more Weraroa novaezealandiae and a sub pin [Re: bluntskies]
    #5662952 - 05/23/06 03:31 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

sounds unusual - weird. WOuld love to hear more bioassays


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Offlinebluntskies
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Re: more Weraroa novaezealandiae and a sub pin [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #5673816 - 05/25/06 05:09 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah, me too


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OfflineDaveTX
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Re: more Weraroa novaezealandiae and a sub pin [Re: bluntskies]
    #5674021 - 05/25/06 05:56 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

What ever those things wear you shouldn't have eaten them. Loosing control of the muscles in your eyes is a sign of poisoning.


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InvisibleFeanor
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Re: more Weraroa novaezealandiae and a sub pin [Re: DaveTX]
    #5674187 - 05/25/06 06:46 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

That's a weird trip man.


--------------------

May Terence McKenna Live Long

The DMT Chronicles


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OfflineDaveTX
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Re: more Weraroa novaezealandiae and a sub pin [Re: bluntskies]
    #5674706 - 05/25/06 09:16 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

bluntskies said:
I took these last weekend and got very strong efects but no visuals, my vision was distorted and I had trouble seeing a meter in front of me, I didn't really enjoy that.. (reminded me of being kind of cross eyed except I couldn't go back to normal vision) watching tv was impossible, I had to focus extremly hard and even then I would lose focus. Walking was difficult too, several times I lost balance. Oh and I couldn't judge distance at times, ie placing something on the ground  was really quite hard. My eyes were very heavy and felt really whack.

I ate about 20, about 60-70 grams wet. I remember the room felt quite alive and a hint of breathing at the peak, overall a good and bad trip. Had times where I felt sort of vulnerable to people and the world. Got quite intense at times, but a few bongs helped.

I haven't tried subs yet, but hope to eventually to see the difference.

So to top that off I would say that these mushrooms give quite an intoxicated feeling which was unpleasent at times, dissapointed at no visuals too :frown:







bluntskies, I think you need to see a doctor immediately!


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OfflineMagicalKnife
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Re: more Weraroa novaezealandiae and a sub pin [Re: DaveTX]
    #5675094 - 05/25/06 10:57 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Could be more heavy in baeocystin or another unidentified active alkaloid? The lack of visuals would indicate very little psilocybin or a synergistic effect with other alkaloids that dampens them down. However, photos have shown a strong bluing reaction which would contradict the fungus having small amounts of psilocybin or be a non-psilocybin bluing reaction.

The experience above makes me think these have some sort of dissociative/drunken-like effect.


--------------------
?


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Offlinebluntskies
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Re: more Weraroa novaezealandiae and a sub pin [Re: MagicalKnife]
    #5681620 - 05/27/06 08:53 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah, was definatly a whack night. My mate had them last night and had a much more positive experience, didn't get the eye thing like I did, he had about 27 to. So who knows. He said he proberly wouldn't take them again and just stick to the common ones.

Cheers for the replys on these things guys :smile:


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OfflineAmarix
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Re: more Weraroa novaezealandiae and a sub pin [Re: bluntskies]
    #5794892 - 06/27/06 04:02 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Umm, hey guys, check out the following chemical analysis of W. novaezealandiae:
http://www.msu.edu/user/hallenhe/ConocybeReprint.pdf

People in Aotearoa NZ have been munching these guys back for ages.  Yes, they're active, non-toxic, and variable in potency (usually comparable to the subs.)  They are bloody impossible to confuse with toxic geni such as Gallerina as well.  Responses vary from person to person.  I've heard tell that many people find them more visual than the bog standard 'liberty caps' and 'gold tops' here.  Generally found south of Wanganui in the North Island.  They are also found in the south island, but I'm not sure of their distribution. 

Keep an eye out for this fella as well:
http://www.anbg.gov.au/fungi/images-captions/weraroa-erythrocephala-0235.html

While inactive, W. erythrocephala often grows in the same habitat as W. NZ and is a heck of a lot easier to spot. :smile:  Happy hunting


Edited by Amarix (06/27/06 04:08 AM)


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OfflineFeelers
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Re: more Weraroa novaezealandiae and a sub pin [Re: Amarix]
    #5794966 - 06/27/06 06:00 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I have definately seen W. erythrocephala in pine needles under a pine growing in Dunedin about 10M away from my friends house.

Thanks for the info Amarix. :thumbup:


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