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Offlinesplifner180
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Magnetic Stirrer Vortex; Too Much? * 1
    #5613103 - 05/10/06 02:44 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I have a DIY magnetic stirrer with a 1 qt jar of LC on top. The vortex is between a quarter and a half-dollar wide on the top, and about half a dime's width at the half-way point.

Is this too fast?

The reason I ask is because it surprises me that myc can develop under constant sirring conditions at all but clearly I'm wrong about that. This vortex seems completely in-line with other examples I've seen but still, never hurts to ask.

tia - splif

PS: I can upload pics or a short vid clip if necessary.


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Offlinesplifner180
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Re: Magnetic Stirrer Vortex; Too Much? [Re: splifner180] * 1
    #5613536 - 05/10/06 04:21 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)
Log in to view attachment

You know, I'd just about give my left nut for an answer to this question... =D

Attached is a short video clip of the stirrer in action. The water level in the video is much lower than it is in my LC but the rotational speed appears to be about the same in both.

splif


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Build a Do-It-Yourself Magnetic Stirrer in thirty minutes with no money.


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OfflineOatman2000
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Re: Magnetic Stirrer Vortex; Too Much? [Re: splifner180] * 1
    #5613581 - 05/10/06 04:27 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

that's a prewtty big vortex...

from what i hear you only need to make it dimple the water, not have a bigass tornado inside your jar. .... (from what i hear)


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InvisibleRoadkillM
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Re: Magnetic Stirrer Vortex; Too Much? [Re: splifner180] * 1
    #5613602 - 05/10/06 04:30 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

If you fill that with a little more water...

the vortex might be smaller.


if not..turn it down a notch.



tc


--------------------
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Invisiblemonstermitch
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Re: Magnetic Stirrer Vortex; Too Much? [Re: Oatman2000] * 1
    #5613603 - 05/10/06 04:30 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

No vortex.
only want a vortex when you are breaking up big chunks of mycelium. The rest of the time you barely want a dimple on the surface. I use 100-300 rpm depending on the magnet size.
Keep it low man, low.


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Offlinesplifner180
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Re: Magnetic Stirrer Vortex; Too Much? [Re: splifner180] * 1
    #5613673 - 05/10/06 04:46 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Ah crud.

The jar is filled and there is a vortex down to the bottom of the jar. And it's a DIY job so I have no means of attenuating the spin until I can get to Radio Shack.

Can anyone say definitively if a vortex this size will harm myc growth?

Thanks for the answers so far!

splif


--------------------
First Grow: Ecuador -> LC -> HPoo/Straw -> Monotub
Build a Do-It-Yourself Magnetic Stirrer in thirty minutes with no money.


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OfflineOatman2000
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Re: Magnetic Stirrer Vortex; Too Much? [Re: splifner180] * 1
    #5613707 - 05/10/06 04:55 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

i would say as long as you have a relatively clean airport it shouldn't matter, as long as you are not wetting down the polyfill breather hole...

try clamping a pair of hemostats overtop of your air tube, and yuou can gitate your lc as much as you want.. (from agar)


--------------------
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WBS QUART SPAWN JAR PREPERATION
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Invisiblemonstermitch
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Re: Magnetic Stirrer Vortex; Too Much? [Re: splifner180] * 1
    #5613708 - 05/10/06 04:55 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I learn from agar, blue helix, and such... They all agree that the vortex is not good. It will still work, but think about the beating the mycelium is taking, you wouldn't be able to grow very well like that either.

Trade off puting it on and taking it off for now until you can get a speed control going. Allow growth with no stirring and slap it on once a day or so if it gets chunky.


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Offlineiamyour_messiah
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Re: Magnetic Stirrer Vortex; Too Much? [Re: monstermitch] * 1
    #5613894 - 05/10/06 05:47 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Or maybe you can find a way to raise the jar a bit higher, but not out of the reach of the magnetic field. This way the spinner thing in the jar might still be in motion, but much less than if it were right on top.


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Offlinesplifner180
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Re: Magnetic Stirrer Vortex; Too Much? [Re: monstermitch] * 1
    #5613930 - 05/10/06 05:57 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Ok, now we've got two people quoting agar as saying completely different things. =)

I ripped an audio pot out of an old speaker system and connected it. Unfortunately, what I need is a linear taper. This one has a tiny sweet spot to hit the desired vortex size. One tiny bump to the left the vortex is too strong. One tiny bump in the other direction results in no spin at all.

Damned audio tapers!

Worse, I mis-judged the drill hole and when I put it all back together the fan casing bent the metal shell that houses the potentiometer and now it's tough making the knob rotate. Ugh.

I did try and put a 9VDC on the fan and it's barely turning BUT, if the no-vortex crowd is right, this might be the precise spin I need (basically just stirring and the tinest of vortex dimples).

Ok, here it is. I'm now offering BOTH testicles for some expert advice on the max vortex size.

Agar? Road? HC?

tia - splif


--------------------
First Grow: Ecuador -> LC -> HPoo/Straw -> Monotub
Build a Do-It-Yourself Magnetic Stirrer in thirty minutes with no money.


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Invisiblemonstermitch
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Re: Magnetic Stirrer Vortex; Too Much? [Re: splifner180] * 1
    #5613952 - 05/10/06 06:02 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Here's the deal, you may shake a jar with agar's tube lids on it all you want and it will be fine, shaking will not kill it.

The vortex will work, but not as well as it spinning with just a dimple. Both of us are right, he is talking about agitaiton with a marble I believe, and I am talking about a stirrer with a vortex or not.

This is a question about a vortex, so I believe my comment is the more relevant one, but who cares about that. I stand by my statement and believe it to be true and so do others. That is my wisdom for you and you may accept it or not. If I am wrong, please tell me so in a pm so we are not pissing about in a thread and I will certainly correct my knowledge base.

Just want the right info out there, you know?


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OfflineSnaggletooth
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Re: Magnetic Stirrer Vortex; Too Much? [Re: splifner180] * 1
    #5613983 - 05/10/06 06:10 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

You are going to want to have control of the RPMs. I noticed that LC on a stirrer starting from spores start out slowly compared with one that sat and was agitated. And that was at the very lowest setting. But once it got going it really got going. In 4 days it was done, I dont know what would have happen if I continued but I think it would just turn to mush....crape.

Mycelium can and will bruise, I believe you can over do it and that can harm the mycelium.

I think the vortex should be used only for a short while.


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Offlinesplifner180
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Re: Magnetic Stirrer Vortex; Too Much? [Re: monstermitch] * 1
    #5613986 - 05/10/06 06:11 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

No pissing match. I'm just looking for (a) something definitive out of (b) a person with serious experience doing precisely what I'm attempting to do with a magnetic stirrer.

You've been here about a week handing out self-congratulatory posts like "thank you creamcorn, you are a great ally in the dispersion of useful knowledge to these impatient few who do not wish to study properly." Vets with 20x your posts don't act that sanctimonious.

Giving your .02c is one thing. Insisting your advice is beyond reproach with a forum presence of just over a week is a bit annoying.

splif


--------------------
First Grow: Ecuador -> LC -> HPoo/Straw -> Monotub
Build a Do-It-Yourself Magnetic Stirrer in thirty minutes with no money.


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Invisiblemonstermitch
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Re: Magnetic Stirrer Vortex; Too Much? [Re: Snaggletooth] * 1
    #5614003 - 05/10/06 06:13 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Agreed on the rpm control

First stage: let it sit in an incubator spinning just a tad once daily
Second stage: spin slowly on stirrer 24/7 with a small dimple
Third stage: occasionaly create a vortex to distribute mycelium
Fourth stage: store and/or use

that's the way I go, and rpm is certainly needed for that


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Invisiblemonstermitch
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Re: Magnetic Stirrer Vortex; Too Much? [Re: monstermitch] * 1
    #5614022 - 05/10/06 06:16 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

agreed spilf, I do tend to get too annoyed at people and should not insult anyone. Not been at the shroomery long either and understand your point of view.

I more humble approach is in order.


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Offlinesplifner180
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Re: Magnetic Stirrer Vortex; Too Much? [Re: splifner180] * 1
    #5614075 - 05/10/06 06:25 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Snaggletooth, if I understand you properly, an LC placed on a low mag-stir setting immediately after being innoc'd took four days to complete?

splif


--------------------
First Grow: Ecuador -> LC -> HPoo/Straw -> Monotub
Build a Do-It-Yourself Magnetic Stirrer in thirty minutes with no money.


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OfflineSnaggletooth
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Re: Magnetic Stirrer Vortex; Too Much? [Re: splifner180] * 1
    #5614168 - 05/10/06 06:43 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Yes for me it was, I used 1cc of thick spores. But I think it was really 5 days. I think it could of been sooner if I did not start it on the stirrer.

Maybe just a few minutes for the first day or two. Then leave it on a constant stir.


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Offlinesplifner180
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Re: Magnetic Stirrer Vortex; Too Much? [Re: splifner180] * 1
    #5614326 - 05/10/06 07:11 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Ok. I think I'll try that.

Thanks man.

splif


--------------------
First Grow: Ecuador -> LC -> HPoo/Straw -> Monotub
Build a Do-It-Yourself Magnetic Stirrer in thirty minutes with no money.


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OfflineSnaggletooth
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Re: Magnetic Stirrer Vortex; Too Much? [Re: splifner180] * 1
    #5614345 - 05/10/06 07:14 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Although if you use a LC to start another then I would start it on the stirrer, and only 1cc - .5cc is needed depending on the LC that was used to start it.


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Invisiblecreamcorn
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Re: Magnetic Stirrer Vortex; Too Much? [Re: Snaggletooth] * 1
    #5615494 - 05/10/06 11:09 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

hey now what do i have to do with this? :smile:

anyway to control the speed its really not the linear/log (audio) taper you're worried about, an audio pot is usually 10kohm or 100kohm, way too much, thats why you've got the really small sweet spot where it does any good.... not to mention they're designed to handle small fractions of a watt and you'll burn it up if you run it for more than a few minutes.  you want something more in the 50-150 ohm range, that can handle 4 or 5 watts - usually referred to as a rheostat in those values.  radio shack doesnt have what you'll need, was just checking in myself, closest they come is a 3 watt 25ohm dealie (i went to the store in person, that's what they had, checked the website, they had the same things listed), that will let you turn it down from 100% speed to about 75% speed, not too useful.

unfortunately, a proper one would be expensive.  like $10-20.  haven't checked yet but google mouser electronics, they got everything.

try your 9v adapter first.  if it does the trick, you're golden.  if its still a little too fast, the radio shack rheostat is the ticket.  if its too slow, you can move back to the 12v, and might be able to get away with something like  this  in series with the radio shack rheostat.

then again, a little creativity might be even better... use some epoxy and glue down some pennies or something "heavy" to the fan fins to slow it down and don't waste money on radio shack's overpriced components :-)


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Offlinesplifner180
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Re: Magnetic Stirrer Vortex; Too Much? [Re: creamcorn]
    #5615769 - 05/11/06 12:10 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

creamcorn wrote:
"...that will let you turn it down from 100% speed to about 75% speed, not too useful."

Actually, that would be perfect. I found a 9VDC transformer and it was just a smidge too slow. Since 75% of 12VDC would bring me to 9VDC, I think that would work well. Did you happen to get a stock number? I'm not sure they'd know what I was looking for.

"try your 9v adapter first. if it does the trick, you're golden. if its still a little too fast, the radio shack rheostat is the ticket. if its too slow, you can move back to the 12v, and might be able to get away with something like this in series with the radio shack rheostat."

Why would I need the resistor with the rheostat?

Hm. Maybe I *should* just use the 9VDC...

splif


--------------------
First Grow: Ecuador -> LC -> HPoo/Straw -> Monotub
Build a Do-It-Yourself Magnetic Stirrer in thirty minutes with no money.


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Re: Magnetic Stirrer Vortex; Too Much? [Re: splifner180]
    #5615836 - 05/11/06 12:26 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Ah, screw it. I went back to the 9VDC and it's creating a vortex that extends downward about 1" and no more.

Perfect.

Granted, not nearly as much fun to watch but I don't have to rig anything up.

splif


--------------------
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Build a Do-It-Yourself Magnetic Stirrer in thirty minutes with no money.


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Offlinealsnow469
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Re: Magnetic Stirrer Vortex; Too Much? [Re: Snaggletooth]
    #5615922 - 05/11/06 01:01 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

My stirrerrers make the flea as my brother calls it

, he does lab work, makes the 2" flea jump

up and down . Thats cool too.

These will be handy at Halloween.


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Re: Magnetic Stirrer Vortex; Too Much? [Re: splifner180]
    #5616539 - 05/11/06 09:33 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Splif,

Personally found my best LCs have been made with very little, if any vortex while the mycelium is scaling up. Just enough to keep everything in suspension. Then a few hours before using the LC for inoculating I'll crank the RPMs to full throttle to break the little balls of mycelium into finer strands.

The method I use with my DYI stirrer is pretty low tech: I sit 2 CD jewel cases between the stirrer and jar for the first 4-5 days. This removes the stir rod just far enough from the magnet to give me the optimal stirring action. Remove CD cases and set directly on the plate prior to using the LC.

You can also use a stack of wide index cards instead of the CD cases. Add or remove cards to dial in and fine tune your set up.

simple - cheap - effective.

hope this helps


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Re: Magnetic Stirrer Vortex; Too Much? [Re: splifner180]
    #5616652 - 05/11/06 10:38 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

splifner180 said:
creamcorn wrote:
"...that will let you turn it down from 100% speed to about 75% speed, not too useful."

Actually, that would be perfect. I found a 9VDC transformer and it was just a smidge too slow. Since 75% of 12VDC would bring me to 9VDC, I think that would work well. Did you happen to get a stock number? I'm not sure they'd know what I was looking for.

"try your 9v adapter first. if it does the trick, you're golden. if its still a little too fast, the radio shack rheostat is the ticket. if its too slow, you can move back to the 12v, and might be able to get away with something like this in series with the radio shack rheostat."

Why would I need the resistor with the rheostat?

Hm. Maybe I *should* just use the 9VDC...

splif




Its the only rheostat they carry. The store had the same exact selection of parts as the website, I'm betting its pretty uniform at all the stores. This is it. I guess I was a little confusing there. I meant either use only the 25ohm rheostat with the 9V, or use the resistor and the rheostat with the 12V... that would actually give you LESS than the 9V by itself, and now that you know the 9V alone is a little too slow, it sounds like what you want is the 12V with the 25ohm rheostat, skip the resistor.

P.S. if its still a little too fast with the 12V and 25ohm rheostat at its lowest setting, another trick is to use diodes. a Si diode (the standard black guys with the white stripe) will drop voltage 0.7v when wired in series. using one or two of them would be a perfect way to fine-tune it, and they're cheap.


Edited by creamcorn (05/11/06 10:46 AM)


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Offlinesplifner180
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Re: Magnetic Stirrer Vortex; Too Much? [Re: creamcorn]
    #5616987 - 05/11/06 12:16 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

blacklabrat writes:
"Personally found my best LCs have been made with very little, if any vortex while the mycelium is scaling up. Just enough to keep everything in suspension. Then a few hours before using the LC for inoculating I'll crank the RPMs to full throttle to break the little balls of mycelium into finer strands."

A couple of vets here recommended a similar method and that's the technique I'm going to use.

"You can also use a stack of wide index cards instead of the CD cases. Add or remove cards to dial in and fine tune your set up."

That is an extremely cool idea. I have vinyl CD sleeves kicking around so I'll kinda be using CD jewel cases but they'll be index-card thick. Best of both worlds. =)

creamcorn writes:
"...and now that you know the 9V alone is a little too slow, it sounds like what you want is the 12V with the 25ohm rheostat, skip the resistor."

After talking to some people about the correct vortex size/speed (pretty much no vortex, just a stir), I re-wired the 9 VDC and found it to be perfect.

But a big thanks for your input. I didn't know that about diodes. I'll keep that in the back of my skull if the need arises.

splif


--------------------
First Grow: Ecuador -> LC -> HPoo/Straw -> Monotub
Build a Do-It-Yourself Magnetic Stirrer in thirty minutes with no money.


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