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Invisiblemungojerry
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My Idea Sky Island
    #5612275 - 05/10/06 11:26 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

This is just a crazy idea I had

A small town in the middle of the atlantic raised 300 feet above sea level with beautiful lush scenery and the most friendly ppl on earth and most importantly no rules! there are no rules on Sky Island as long as it doesnt affect someones saftey.....Do certain coutries own the waters? could I legally start sky island? Would we be prosecuted for breaking laws of countries over waters?

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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Re: My Idea Sky Island [Re: mungojerry]
    #5612298 - 05/10/06 11:33 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Have you heard, "Turn on, Tune in, Drop out" ? if not, you should...


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Invisiblemungojerry
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Re: My Idea Sky Island [Re: EquilibriuM]
    #5612305 - 05/10/06 11:36 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

timothy leary said that yeah

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Offlineezsefix
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Re: My Idea Sky Island [Re: mungojerry]
    #5612317 - 05/10/06 11:42 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Then there's this other crazy idea where....how in the hell would you make that happen? You'd have to be in international waters I believe, and those are generally quite deep. Building something out there that can weather storms and such, and reach the bottom of the ocean (unless you had it on floats or something, which carries it's own problems) with support beams. Not to mention you'd be unprotected by any country, so you would quite quickly be invaded by some crew of shmucks who might kill you, and would definately take all your stuff.

Plus an anarchistic society that far at sea would probably degenerate quite quickly. Oh, and don't forget about having to provide clean water, sewage treatment, electricity, internet, health care, transportation etc. etc. etc. It's a nifty idea but the people with the money to make it work aren't the kind of people who could make it work, if you catch what I'm saying.


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InvisibleStickyWater
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Re: My Idea Sky Island [Re: ezsefix]
    #5612343 - 05/10/06 11:49 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

It's a better movie idea than anything really... Here's one... A city built inside of a mountain...

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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Re: My Idea Sky Island [Re: mungojerry]
    #5612350 - 05/10/06 11:50 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

mungojerry said:
timothy leary said that yeah




Yeah but uhh he had a audio recording called that... it talked about what you are talking about..


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Invisiblemungojerry
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Re: My Idea Sky Island [Re: ezsefix]
    #5612354 - 05/10/06 11:52 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

of course i have thought of all those things....the cost of the entire operation would be incredible and this is more of a long term goal as I plan to start my own buisness one day... and as for pirates and what not I will try non lethal ways to stop them lol... but i dont think we would be attacked the world is pretty cival right? and plus itd have to be an arial attack since after all were in the sky... but yeah some parameters would have to be taken just incase of an invasion

I think I could start off small charge $500 for a weeks stay.... kinda like a hotel thing and expand from there

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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Re: My Idea Sky Island [Re: mungojerry]
    #5612365 - 05/10/06 11:56 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)



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InvisibleTODAY
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Re: My Idea Sky Island [Re: mungojerry]
    #5612406 - 05/10/06 12:04 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

This idea will totally work.  Sky Island in 2010.  :bongroll:

Maybe you should just rent a few of acres of land somewhere isolated and camp out over the summer?  You could get away with the same kinda stuff as Sky Island but its actually a feasible idea.


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Invisiblekaniz
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Re: My Idea Sky Island [Re: EquilibriuM]
    #5612430 - 05/10/06 12:10 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

While a concept of 'no rules' is a lovely concept --- its one that rarely, if ever works.

Now, lets suppose you overcame all the obsticals of actually building this, just the landmass...

- what would you do for food?
- what would you do for water? (cant go drinking salt water, need some sort of way to proccess it to make it drinkable)
- what would you do for medical aid? what if someone got sick?
- what would you do to ensure no one freeloads?
- how do you make sure everyone pulls their own weight?

when ever I see the lofty ideas of 'no rules' I cant help but roll my eyes. Even the few 'anarchy' societies that have sprung up and ended up doing well -- have eventually ended up having their own rules imposed.

You may want to read up on Christiania, a good starting point may be here

not to piss in your cereal or anything.....

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Invisiblemungojerry
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Re: My Idea Sky Island [Re: EquilibriuM]
    #5612446 - 05/10/06 12:14 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

EquilibriuM said:
http://www.leary.ru/english/audio/turn_on_album/




sry man cant play zip files or somethin....Im lookin for it on limewire tho

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Invisiblekaniz
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Re: My Idea Sky Island [Re: mungojerry]
    #5612452 - 05/10/06 12:16 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

get winzip and uncompress it

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InvisibleStickyWater
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Re: My Idea Sky Island [Re: EquilibriuM]
    #5612471 - 05/10/06 12:18 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

but i dont think we would be attacked the world is pretty cival right?




Trust me... You will get attacked... Wars have been fought for dumber reasons... I have no idea where you got the idea that the world was a civil place... Assuming you weren't attacked though, it would still be impossible to build such a city.

Structure:
International waters as already mentioned, tend to be deep... You wouldn't be able to build supports to raise the city that would withstand weather, waves, and currents and would still be able to touch bottom (actually it would have to decent a couple hundred feet below the bottom to properly secure it). Maintenance of this support would be virtually impossible as humans have a hard time getting down to such depths, let alone making repairs... If you were to have it on a flotation device then you'd still need wires or something anchoring it to the bottom. Again, hard to secure anchors down that deep, not to mention the wide variety of life in the ocean that will eventually (or quickly) destroy these ropes or wires.

Weather: The ocean is windy... and when it's not windy it's usually cold or boiling hot... Sometimes it's windy and cold/hot... When you're not in the middle of a hurricane of course... Also remember that wind travels faster at a higher altitude and hurricanes tend to be much more powerful over the ocean than on land... Basically your city would have to be able to stand up to the full blown force of a hurricane with nothing around to act as shelter or to take some of the strength out of the hurricane. You'd be in the middle of the ocean so help would NOT arrive soon... Bessides, you'd be in the air, help COULDN'T arrive until after the storm was gone. If your city's anchored to the bottom of the ocean then odds are a few of your anchor guides will have snapped, if the entire city hasn't been pushed out of place... Support beams would most likely snap under such conditions.

Economy:
Well... Other than maybe livestock and farming you wont have any real exports... And seeing as unpleasant weather would be both common and extreme, tourism wont be very high all year. If you had a single year where there was high hurricane warnings or something of the sorts your economy would be crippled seeing as you have no natural resources other than plants and animals. And let's face it, not many people would be willing to risk vacationing there when there's high risk of hurricanes seeing as the entire city is unprotected, no means of escape would be made available, and if something happened to the support structure the entire city would be underwater in a few hours... One can only think what would happen if a hurricane decided that specific place would be a good place to sit and build up energy...

ALTHOUGH something like this is currently being designed... While it doesn't exactly fit your idea they do want to make a glass pyramid city over the water somewhere around China to help cope with the population. Some of the problems are still being worked out, such as withstanding weather, etc but they're working on it... Another thing I heard about (from a semi-reliable source) was a city built above Hong Kong I think it was to help cope with the population... Essentially the design was a large dome above the city. Haven't varified this or looked into it myself though...

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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Re: My Idea Sky Island [Re: kaniz]
    #5612477 - 05/10/06 12:19 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Its not the one I was looking for anyway  :foreheadslap: I cant find the right one...


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Offlinededjam
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Re: My Idea Sky Island [Re: EquilibriuM]
    #5612489 - 05/10/06 12:22 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

doesnt dubai already have places like this? If not, im sure they will. Hell they are the experts and making islands.

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Invisiblemungojerry
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Re: My Idea Sky Island [Re: kaniz]
    #5612502 - 05/10/06 12:24 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I got really stoned last night and thought of all these questions...

- what would you do for food?

at first we would have to buy food from america but will eventually grow everything ourselves

- what would you do for water? (cant go drinking salt water, need some sort of way to proccess it to make it drinkable)
we will have to have a filtration system of somekind

- what would you do for medical aid? what if someone got sick?
this one is a bit more tricky, i was thinking perhaps hire a doctor or someone with medical experience for emergencies but for health care you will have to go to the U.S. until we can astablish a hospital

- what would you do to ensure no one freeloads?

well innitaially it will cost $500 for a weeks stay so freeloading wont matter right then but I think maybe rent or a mutual work service would solve this problem... but for the most part as long as you are respectful on Sky Island and overpopulation is not a problem you can freeload all you want

- how do you make sure everyone pulls their own weight?

you are free to do as you wish but you must remember we are a community and if help is needed than you should help.... i expect every visitor and resident of sky island to be fairly intelligent and respectful

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InvisibleAsante
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Re: My Idea Sky Island [Re: mungojerry]
    #5612512 - 05/10/06 12:26 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

What you want can be summarized in three words:

DECOMISSIONED OIL RIG

When the oil's gone, an oil rig becomes a burden to an oiul company. Sometimes they are abandoned, sometimes they are scrapped entirely.

What you do is BUY one from an oil company, it wont cost much and what you buy from the oil co. is not just the hardware but also the sole legal ownership over a piece of dry land outside of territorial waters.

By buying off the company (who may claim you are squatters when you just pick an abandoined platform) you automatically become owner of the rig and with it king of your own island-state :laugh:

Quote:

and most importantly no rules!




I bet you don't visit OTD much :wink:

Pirates are best discouraged by sawing their boat in half with them on it, this is best accomplished by one of those six-barreled 25mm helicopter guns, since you own your own country in the midst of the ocean such a gadget is just a phonecall away.

You might get pirates of two kinds: rogues and governments. If you start churning out LSD by the kilo as an export product you'll likely get a daisycutter in your lap courtesy of uncle sam.

If your rig is in western waters and you keep all drugs ON the island and keep a low profile then you will probably get away with it, but if you go high profile or do it in lets say asian waters (where piracy is an occupation) then your Sky Island is doomed.

But yeah, what you want would be a decomissioned oil rig.


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Offlinededjam
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Re: My Idea Sky Island [Re: Asante]
    #5612548 - 05/10/06 12:33 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:
What you want can be summarized in three words:

DECOMISSIONED OIL RIG

When the oil's gone, an oil rig becomes a burden to an oiul company. Sometimes they are abandoned, sometimes they are scrapped entirely.

What you do is BUY one from an oil company, it wont cost much and what you buy from the oil co. is not just the hardware but also the sole legal ownership over a piece of dry land outside of territorial waters.

By buying off the company (who may claim you are squatters when you just pick an abandoined platform) you automatically become owner of the rig and with it king of your own island-state :laugh:





holy shit what a great idea. Can i pick one up on ebay? lol. Seriously though, that would be pretty badass to have your own rig.

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Invisiblemungojerry
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Re: My Idea Sky Island [Re: Asante]
    #5612592 - 05/10/06 12:43 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

why is otd so grrrr?.... i think its jus the shroomerys playground and doesnt represent trippers or the world most trippers are laid back and peacful not like most at the otd

and incase of hurricans i thinks somekind of retractable dome would be placed over the whole thing

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Invisiblemungojerry
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Re: My Idea Sky Island [Re: kaniz]
    #5612624 - 05/10/06 12:50 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

kaniz said:
While a concept of 'no rules' is a lovely concept --- its one that rarely, if ever works.





works at burning man every year

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Invisiblekaniz
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Re: My Idea Sky Island [Re: mungojerry]
    #5612648 - 05/10/06 01:04 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Even burning man has some rules and guidelines that people are supposed to follow, and burning man is also for a short period of time.

While 'no rules' can work for fairly short periods of time, for extended periods of time, especially once you start talking years, it becomes a very different beast.

No rules very rarely means no rules, and eventually as time goes on - guidelines, rules, meetings and some form of organization and structure will naturally start to form. Like I said, start doing some reading up on Christiania, probably one of the most successful 'anarchy' communes, but even at that - rules started to come in, and they had a way of doing things and getting them done.

No rules rarely means 'no rules' in the literal sense, it just doesn’t work.

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Invisiblemungojerry
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Re: My Idea Sky Island [Re: kaniz]
    #5612671 - 05/10/06 01:12 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

well maybe no rules was phrased incorrectly...... no violence no theft ect its all simple common sense..... and if some cant live peacfully on Sky Island then we will boot the motherfuckers

whoever causes havoc will be sent back home.... the attraction of this island will be peace and freedom, so come here to expect and perform just that..... basically a hippy commune in the sky

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Offlineezsefix
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Re: My Idea Sky Island [Re: mungojerry]
    #5612684 - 05/10/06 01:15 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Lmao. You can't compare a festival's rules to those of a semi-permanent society.


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Invisiblemungojerry
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Re: My Idea Sky Island [Re: ezsefix]
    #5612688 - 05/10/06 01:17 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

yeah good point..... its more of a hippie community

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InvisibleAsante
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Re: My Idea Sky Island [Re: mungojerry]
    #5612715 - 05/10/06 01:25 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

OTD is a prime example what will happen to Sky Island if you do away with rules.

What you need is a good mellow atmosphere but with a foundation of hard rules which are rigidly enforced without exception. Some people cannot stay on Sky Island and must be removed swiftly. No negotiations, no second chances, no trying to make them see the light, but a one way ticket to land right away.

The foundation for any kind of togetherness are respect and commitment to do the right thing. If these are wanting or absent altogether then you have no choice but to remove such a person, and to do this before they do damage.

Also, some drugs should be refused strictly, being speed, coke and opiates. Stimulant abuse makes some people aggressively nonsocial and opiate abuse makes some people passively nonsocial.

Sky Island should be like a fairy tale: ruled by a king who is benign and wise but takes not a speck of shit from anyone.


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Invisiblemungojerry
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Re: My Idea Sky Island [Re: Asante]
    #5612740 - 05/10/06 01:32 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

hmmm yes all that sounds good and i think ill do that if this ever goes thro but i dont know that i should boot a drug user perhaps a penalty other than banishment would be inline if they are caught speed, coke and opiates (not including opium)

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Re: My Idea Sky Island [Re: mungojerry]
    #5612854 - 05/10/06 01:58 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

mungojerry said:
hmmm yes all that sounds good and i think ill do that if this ever goes thro




Don't worry, it won't.

The idea of establishing an egalitarian (assuming this is what you want) community in international waters is feasible in principle but in order for it to get off the ground you need intelligent people who understand how/who to talk to to make things happen.

How will you finance this? You said you will be starting your own business? Lol. Ok ok, maybe when you get out of high school you can sell Oreo's with the cream pre-separated or something.

An oil rig is the best place to set up one of these communities (as W_S mentioned...great idea btw) because it is already built and the cost of its construction has been reimbursed by the oil it produced so the company holding it most likely wants to realize any capital it can from it if it is no longer productive...giving you (well, somebody with a better plan) the best price you can get on a "floating island".

Oil rigs (generally, manmade islands) are not productive as far as resources for agriculture. You'd be dependent on food imports from the USA. You could potentially build an ocean water distillation machine, but of course you have no idea how that would work and would be dependent on buying one with the money you don't have.

**The idea is an interesting one, and an idea many people have thought of, me included**

You just don't have the resources to make it happen. Dreaming unrealizeable goals is counterproductive. Keep the dreaming realistic.

Right now you are dreaming of a self-sufficient ocean living society while you have the resources to paddle an innertube out into the ocean and smoke a doob.

A better idea would be to establish the oil rig as a hotel or retreat of sorts where people can enjoy a relaxed soft-drug friendly atmosphere with plenty of entertainment available and a strict set of rules to make sure nobody is harmed.


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Invisiblemungojerry
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Re: My Idea Sky Island [Re: TODAY]
    #5612903 - 05/10/06 02:08 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

TODAY said:

Lol. Ok ok, maybe when you get out of high school you can sell Oreo's with the cream pre-separated or something.




I knew someone would get pissy over a crazy hypothetical.... this is nothing more than a cool thought and a dream I know that in reality this prolly will never happen, its jus an idea

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InvisibleTODAY
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Re: My Idea Sky Island [Re: mungojerry]
    #5612953 - 05/10/06 02:16 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah, I'm just the hard headed reality guy.

Did you miss the place in my post where I said it was an interesting idea?

I've thought about chartering a cruise boat for the same purpose...taking guests out into international waters for a weekend of fun. Sustaining a permanent society is different.

Also, I looked into the oilrig thing and apparently they have to be taken down (sunk or scrapped) upon decomission.


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Offlinecapliberty
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Re: My Idea Sky Island [Re: mungojerry]
    #5612960 - 05/10/06 02:16 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Hey aren't they already doing this. I've watched a show where there making man made islands in the ocean. and celebrities are already putting bids for them, so anyone that says sky island isn't feasible are really under estimating our capabilities. They build these islands in the Caribbeans using large rocks and sand. Actually their making a whole bunch clustered all together. So if they can do this then sky island is definitely feasible

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Re: My Idea Sky Island [Re: capliberty]
    #5612976 - 05/10/06 02:20 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

definitely some motivation knowing its possible..... are there international laws?

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Offlinecapliberty
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Re: My Idea Sky Island [Re: mungojerry]
    #5613003 - 05/10/06 02:26 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

don't know I think these are American contractors in the Caribbeans so I guess its who ever can make it happen, cash rules u know, No one is going to contend with the Godzilla of the world, especially in the western hemisphere.

But their making these islands to be basically similar to natural islands with lush green vegetation and a tropical ecosystem, this is a big bucks operation, they plan on making whole bunch of these islands

Edited by capliberty (05/10/06 02:33 PM)

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Offlinezappa
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Re: My Idea Sky Island [Re: capliberty]
    #5617177 - 05/11/06 01:11 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

screw it, man. just take poland :lol:


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