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OfflineLearning2Much
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Really Need Some IDea's..... Please Help!
    #5609962 - 05/09/06 07:19 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Things seems to have been going okay, then all the sudden BAM Nothing, my casing just stopped growing dead in it's tracks..

I Picked a few off the casing and then (the same flush just I think) pinned okay, started to grow a bit, very small bit, then stopped dead in it's tracks. It's been a bit over a week, and the pins have not grown AT ALL. I am at a total loss. PLEASE HELP!!!


Here is some background info to possible help identify the problem..

Horse Poo Casings, PH Levels were in the 8's and seemed okay. I even picked a few off the casing. The RH is around 98% and the temp has been around 65-75 range over all. Lighting has been close to 24x7. I have cut it down to see if that was the problem to about 18hrs light.

ANY IDEAS< PLEASE HELP!!!

Thx's

L2M


Edited by Learning2Much (05/09/06 07:21 PM)


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OfflineLearning2Much
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Re: Really Need Some IDea's..... Please Help! [Re: Learning2Much]
    #5610165 - 05/09/06 07:53 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Bump


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OfflineLearning2Much
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Re: Really Need Some IDea's..... Please Help! [Re: Learning2Much]
    #5610194 - 05/09/06 08:02 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Well.. here is some more information that I hope helps


It looks like most all the pins are starting to abort. I have about two pins that are about a half inch in height. The base of one of the larger pins is really blueing hard, like it was bruised. I didn't even water it, so I don't think that was it. Some of the really small pins have myc growing on the caps. I think I should expect that when they are that small, but not sure...

Any Input at all would be appreciated!!!

L2m


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OfflineLearning2Much
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Re: Really Need Some IDea's..... Please Help! [Re: Learning2Much]
    #5610386 - 05/09/06 08:40 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Okay, Think the humidity is too high, around 98%


????????????????????????


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Invisiblemagicbastard
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Re: Really Need Some IDea's..... Please Help! [Re: Learning2Much]
    #5610432 - 05/09/06 08:56 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

how deep is the substrate?


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OfflineLearning2Much
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Re: Really Need Some IDea's..... Please Help! [Re: magicbastard]
    #5610484 - 05/09/06 09:10 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

There is about 1.5 inches of casing on the bottom, the substrate is about 3inch in depth.

How would that cause this effect? Would love to know what your thinking. And.. What other questions would help determine this cause..

???


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InvisibleTomandjerry58
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Re: Really Need Some IDea's..... Please Help! [Re: Learning2Much]
    #5610513 - 05/09/06 09:20 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

first of all do a 12 on 12 off with ur lighting. there are so many things that could be wrong. have u ever grown out of the fruiting chamber ur growing in?


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OfflineLearning2Much
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Re: Really Need Some IDea's..... Please Help! [Re: Learning2Much]
    #5610533 - 05/09/06 09:25 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

preschooler...

I do about an 18/6 light cycle. 18 On, 4 Off.

I have grown out of FC Im using now. Heck, There was even some that popped out of the same cake, so I was told.


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InvisibleTomandjerry58
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Re: Really Need Some IDea's..... Please Help! [Re: Learning2Much]
    #5610571 - 05/09/06 09:36 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

one time i was trying to do a straw ball. the ball pined all over. i mean like crazy pins. they nver grew more than a quarter inch. to this day i think it was because of no airflow and just having a really small chamber. i mean the thing was basket ball sized in 10 gallon tub. finally i got a hudifier and a 35 gallon tub


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Offlineshroomballa
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Re: Really Need Some IDea's..... Please Help! [Re: Learning2Much]
    #5610598 - 05/09/06 09:44 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I've been using 24/7 lighting to start pinning w/o any problemt. Once i'm happy with the pinset, I go to 16/8 (on/off) So I dont think that's the prob. An argument against a bottom casing layer is that it can contam and you wont know about it. A contam could hault growth. Could be that


--------------------
Anything I say is fictional. Duh.


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InvisibleTomandjerry58
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Re: Really Need Some IDea's..... Please Help! [Re: Tomandjerry58]
    #5610612 - 05/09/06 09:49 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

sorry if i can't help too much on this go around. i have failed miserably before. sometimes you just have to start over. i can give u some tips for the future though. large fc, vicks cool mist with tube, wbs, straw+poo= great results. 12 on 12 light is very sufficent ur not going to speed anything up by adding more light. shroomies need to sleep too!

run that cool mist on a timer 18 hrs on. spread out threw out the day
good luck hope ive helped the cause


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OfflineLearning2Much
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Re: Really Need Some IDea's..... Please Help! [Re: Tomandjerry58]
    #5610624 - 05/09/06 09:53 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I'm using perlite for humidity and it seems to be okay, around 98%. I just took some out to see if lowering the humidity to around 90% will change the effect.

See, I was thinking it could of stopped growing because the myc was fighting some type of contaminate. It would make sense at least. Is there an easy way to check it our just take it out and look.

Actually, I'll make a phone call and get it checked and post on what I see.


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OfflineLearning2Much
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Re: Really Need Some IDea's..... Please Help! [Re: Learning2Much]
    #5610648 - 05/09/06 10:01 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Okay,

Well, the good news. No Contams visible (c:

The bottom casing layer was much much thinner than originally thought. I guess when incubating it colonized much of the bottom layer. There is about 1/4 inch left for a bottom casing layer. I am going to sterilize some more casing mix and have put it on the bottom. I don't think that moisture content was too low, but I don't think it would hurt to recase some of it.

Any other ideas that would cause such an effect?>


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InvisibleTomandjerry58
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Re: Really Need Some IDea's..... Please Help! [Re: Learning2Much]
    #5610655 - 05/09/06 10:03 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)



i hope this works not very good at this


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InvisibleTomandjerry58
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Re: Really Need Some IDea's..... Please Help! [Re: Tomandjerry58]
    #5610680 - 05/09/06 10:08 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

that cool mist will create the ultimate airflow for ur chamber.and those holes are 3/8 inch with polyfill ran threw them for exhaust.
just a cut out hole and plexi galss put on the top so th light can get in. read a little into patch casing. that will help ur pinset not the extra light.


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OfflineLearning2Much
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Re: Really Need Some IDea's..... Please Help! [Re: Tomandjerry58]
    #5610726 - 05/09/06 10:19 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Nice Set up!!

Do you think using a single bubble wand and a air stone with perlite would cause adequate air exchange for a container app 1/2 larger than the one pictured?


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InvisibleTomandjerry58
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Re: Really Need Some IDea's..... Please Help! [Re: Learning2Much]
    #5610775 - 05/09/06 10:31 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

screw the perlite. it a freaking mess and it harbors contams. that is a 55 dollar set up at the most. including light, hudifier, tub, and plexi glass.

with the hudifier you get air exchange and humidity. plus you can replace the filters.


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InvisibleTomandjerry58
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Re: Really Need Some IDea's..... Please Help! [Re: Tomandjerry58]
    #5610819 - 05/09/06 10:42 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

airflow is key the more of it the larger the shrooms will get.more space more room to grow.

you never have to fan this either.

if you can fill the bottom up with poo and straw and some colonized birdseed. let it colonize. case it then patch case 3 to four days later. 2 days later turn light on 12 on 12 . turn hudifier on a timer 18hrs on spread threw out 24 hrs.

by the way those holes are drilled all the way around the fruiting chamber


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OfflineDaveTX
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Re: Really Need Some IDea's..... Please Help! [Re: Tomandjerry58]
    #5611263 - 05/10/06 12:47 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I think you guys get too technical about growing mushrooms. I use an aquarium with perlite in the bottom. One thing I have noticed about the perlite is that it has to be broken-in. What I mean by broken-in, is that it needs to sit steaming inside the terrarium for about 2 weeks. Once the perlite is broken-in you can then put the cakes/cased-cakes inside. As far as the lighting goes, I personally don't use any lighting besides the light that comes in through the curtens. And if I'm going to examine the inside of the terrarium I will use a light. Thats all I know.


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OfflineLearning2Much
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Re: Really Need Some IDea's..... Please Help! [Re: DaveTX]
    #5621826 - 05/12/06 04:38 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

A Quick Update...


Same situation, nothing.  Nothing good, nothing bad?  I guess thats a lie.  Nothing is bad, lol

:roulette:


I will update.. I hope eventually someone will be able to view this post to get some ideas if it happens to them.

L2M


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OfflineBPJohnny
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Re: Really Need Some IDea's..... Please Help! [Re: Learning2Much]
    #5621844 - 05/12/06 04:46 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

sounds to me like the substrate was lacking something (although the RH

was a bit high should be more like 85%, but i dont think thats the

problem)and the fact that they were blueing leads me to think that you

did not have enough moisture. remember shrooms are 92% water you need to

give em enough to grow!


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Invisiblemonstermitch
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Re: Really Need Some IDea's..... Please Help! [Re: BPJohnny]
    #5621856 - 05/12/06 04:50 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

No one has mentioned this:

Ph in the 8's is bad.

at 8.3 or so it will pin, but not much.

you want 6.8-7.2 ph.

7.5 ph for your casing to start with because this will drop as the mycelium excretes it's acidic metabolites.

I believe this is a ph problem, maybe I missed something in the thread though.


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OfflineBPJohnny
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Re: Really Need Some IDea's..... Please Help! [Re: monstermitch]
    #5621873 - 05/12/06 04:54 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

monstermitch said:
No one has mentioned this:

Ph in the 8's is bad.

at 8.3 or so it will pin, but not much.





i thought about this as well but i didn't know how detrimental .7 of a ph increase would be.

what kind of casing are you using and what are you using as a ph buffer?


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Offlinekristen
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Re: Really Need Some IDea's..... Please Help! [Re: DaveTX]
    #5621905 - 05/12/06 05:14 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

DaveTX said:
I think you guys get too technical about growing mushrooms. I use an aquarium with perlite in the bottom. One thing I have noticed about the perlite is that it has to be broken-in. What I mean by broken-in, is that it needs to sit steaming inside the terrarium for about 2 weeks. Once the perlite is broken-in you can then put the cakes/cased-cakes inside. As far as the lighting goes, I personally don't use any lighting besides the light that comes in through the curtens. And if I'm going to examine the inside of the terrarium I will use a light. Thats all I know.






Perlite doesn't need "broken in" Sounds like you're putting in too much water.


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Invisiblemonstermitch
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Re: Really Need Some IDea's..... Please Help! [Re: kristen]
    #5621916 - 05/12/06 05:17 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

yup. all needed with perlite is to have a dry layer of perlite on top of the wet stuff.

It will work instantly, no need to do anything.

The dry layer will wick the moisture from below and evaporte it.

Have to have that layer on top be dry.


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OfflineBPJohnny
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Re: Really Need Some IDea's..... Please Help! [Re: DaveTX]
    #5621936 - 05/12/06 05:23 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

DaveTX said:
I think you guys get too technical about growing mushrooms. I use an aquarium with perlite in the bottom. One thing I have noticed about the perlite is that it has to be broken-in. What I mean by broken-in, is that it needs to sit steaming inside the terrarium for about 2 weeks. Once the perlite is broken-in you can then put the cakes/cased-cakes inside. As far as the lighting goes, I personally don't use any lighting besides the light that comes in through the curtens. And if I'm going to examine the inside of the terrarium I will use a light. Thats all I know.





ok take a look at your "simple setup" VS hippiechicks "complicated"
setup (HC hope you dont mind i use your pic)
VS


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Invisiblemonstermitch
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Re: Really Need Some IDea's..... Please Help! [Re: BPJohnny]
    #5621957 - 05/12/06 05:29 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Right on Johnny.

:mushroomgrow:

or

:mushroomgrow: :mushroomgrow: :mushroomgrow: :mushroomgrow: :mushroomgrow: :mushroomgrow: :mushroomgrow: :mushroomgrow:
:mushroomgrow: :mushroomgrow: :mushroomgrow: :mushroomgrow: :mushroomgrow: :mushroomgrow: :mushroomgrow: :mushroomgrow:


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OfflineCrazyPsilocybe
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Re: Really Need Some IDea's..... Please Help! [Re: monstermitch]
    #5622268 - 05/12/06 06:55 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

The pH is off.  pH (above seven) is relative to how much -OH molecules are present and 0.7 can be a large margin. Hell - Coke and stomach acid are only off by a similar amount (stomach acid obviously varies more than the coke - but both will take paint off a car).  I agree with Monstermitch.

PS - I get a hard-on every time I see HC's greenhouse - 'specially after those lingerie shots she posted  :blowjob:    :naughty:


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OfflineLearning2Much
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Re: Really Need Some IDea's..... Please Help! [Re: CrazyPsilocybe]
    #5622464 - 05/12/06 07:41 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Didn't think of that... Duh    :banghead:

Well, we will modify the RH Level as well.  I have tried about everything to properly test PH Levels, Strips Probe etc.  I saw a post from agar on what he recommend expensive but the more I read the more important I think it is. 

Is it possible to modify the ph level when it is at this point.  Would you recommend re-casing it?

Thks

L2M


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Invisiblemonstermitch
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Re: Really Need Some IDea's..... Please Help! [Re: Learning2Much]
    #5622491 - 05/12/06 07:46 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

you can lower it but don't use hydrated lime.

buy a hanna ph probe from proaquatica.com, I think.

they're like 20-30 bucks, tops, not too overly expensive.

Sometimes what agar says is expensive is cheap to me.
He is frugal and good with money, I just am not so much.

What I would recommend is maybe using dasani water. The ph is somewhere around 4 or 5, but don't trust me on using it.

I've never modified a ph down during a grow.
I use slight alkaline water in the later flushes for misting to keep the ph up, but never brought it down.

Be careful and maybe get a probe or some strips first as to not go too far one way or the other.

The mycelium might have been burnt from the ph being too high.

I hate to put someone out there like this but I would say send a pm to Blue Helix. He is whom I would ask and trust for sure.


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OfflineLearning2Much
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Re: Really Need Some IDea's..... Please Help! [Re: monstermitch]
    #5622509 - 05/12/06 07:50 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Thanks Monster... Your advise is much appreciated!

I am going to check out the site you recommended. I will update as I learn more.


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Invisiblemonstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work

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Re: Really Need Some IDea's..... Please Help! [Re: Learning2Much]
    #5622535 - 05/12/06 07:58 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I got mine from ebay, but it was billed from proaquatica.com
I was just lookin on their site and couldn't find it.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Hanna-pH-TESTER-METE...1QQcmdZViewItem
try this out


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Offlinehyphae
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Re: Really Need Some IDea's..... Please Help! [Re: monstermitch]
    #5622716 - 05/12/06 08:41 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

monstermitch said:
yup.  all needed with perlite is to have a dry layer of perlite on top of the wet stuff.

It will work instantly, no need to do anything.

The dry layer will wick the moisture from below and evaporte it.

Have to have that layer on top be dry.



Sorry but this is totally misinformation! No dry layer is wanted in perlite humidification just think about it for a second guys what would this possibly accomplish? Make sure all perlite is damp also make sure your fruits have plenty of RH as well as available water as maturing fruits require a ton of water guys! In other words fruits will stop growing as soon as the water supply is cutoff! :wink:


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Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"


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Invisiblemonstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work

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Re: Really Need Some IDea's..... Please Help! [Re: hyphae]
    #5622739 - 05/12/06 08:44 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

thank you for the correction.

I thought I've always seen 2" perlite 1" water....
or whatever ratio they prefer.

Read alot about a dry layer acting as a wick for the wet layer below.

Don't use a pmp myself, never used perlite stand alone.

so make sure all perlite is damp.... got it.

Thank you very much.


--------------------



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Offlinehyphae
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Re: Really Need Some IDea's..... Please Help! [Re: monstermitch]
    #5622790 - 05/12/06 08:55 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Not meant to jump on you or anything bro I've just heard this bad info a few times before and needed to address this ASAP. Yes 2" perlite and 1" water is a good ratio and that top 1" of perlite becomes damp very quickly. I like this system as opposed to just damp perlite as the RH is more stable where as just damp perlite will dryout with frequent FAE's and inadequent mistings. Although theres nothing wrong with using only damp perlite as long as the RH stay at an adequent level and is consistant.


--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"


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Invisiblemonstermitch
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Re: Really Need Some IDea's..... Please Help! [Re: hyphae]
    #5622826 - 05/12/06 09:01 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

cool.

like I said I never worked with perlite in a pmp type setup.

I just assumed incorrectly that the water stayed standing on the bottom, but now that I think of it I see my incorrect comment for sure.

Perlite will soak up any water it touches so if the top layer is dry than there is no standing water on the bottom 1 inch.

Got it for sure now.


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InvisibleTomandjerry58
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Re: Really Need Some IDea's..... Please Help! [Re: monstermitch]
    #5622891 - 05/12/06 09:15 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

wouldn't recomend adjusting a ph during a grow you could try but honestly i think ur pissing in the wind. screw the dasani get some distilled water. that stuff has flouride and sodium in it.

maybe you should dunk the whole casing crumble and recase. hopefully it doesn't contam. what do you have to lose?

p.s. about the ph. when i was a noob i used to worry about ph so much. i actually got a tester. there was no use for it. just regular 60/40 verm coir is a perfect casing mix no need to adjust. :mushroom2:


Edited by Tomandjerry58 (05/12/06 09:19 PM)


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Invisiblemonstermitch
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Re: Really Need Some IDea's..... Please Help! [Re: Tomandjerry58]
    #5622916 - 05/12/06 09:21 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)



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InvisibleTomandjerry58
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Re: Really Need Some IDea's..... Please Help! [Re: monstermitch]
    #5623030 - 05/12/06 09:48 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

i do have to agree with you there. i guess my verm coir is perfect then. and every time they bag it dry its at the perfect ph for mushroom growth.

i also think that the water you introduce into ur casing mix has alot to do with th ph levels.

normally verm runs about 7 and coir runs about 5. and unless somebody threw some lime into his batch i don't think that its going to effect his mushrooms


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OfflineLearning2Much
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Re: Really Need Some IDea's..... Please Help! [Re: Tomandjerry58]
    #5633794 - 05/15/06 05:00 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

UPdate:

Damn, Still the same nothing. The pins are the exact same height. I just don't get it. Why would it pin and just stop?

I will probably just dunk and recase and take my chances. But I would really like to know what could cause this???

- Not Learning Enough, lol


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OfflineLearning2Much
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Re: Really Need Some IDea's..... Please Help! [Re: Learning2Much]
    #5633973 - 05/15/06 05:48 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

The 50/50 Peat and Verm mix was used with OysterShell flour and bit of Hydrated Lime. When the ph was tested it was around the low 8's. Which I believe it the target level. Is it possible that the oystershell flour put me over where i need to be?


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Re: Really Need Some IDea's..... Please Help! [Re: Learning2Much]
    #5634071 - 05/15/06 06:11 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

spring water has sodium and flouride, distilled water is run through a boiler, condensed and packaged.


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