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barfightlard
tales of theinexpressible



Registered: 01/29/03 
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Since America cares so much for others
#5609722 - 05/09/06 06:11 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Why hasn't she done anything for Darfur, which is FAR worse off under their government than Iraqis were. No profit to be made or no strategic military positioning with limited resistence from the puppet government to be installed?
http://www.shoutwire.com/viewstory/11864/Darfur_A_Genocide_We_Can_Stop
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"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks
Edited by bellylard (05/09/06 06:13 PM)
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Phred
Fred's son


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Re: Since America cares so much for others [Re: barfightlard]
#5609773 - 05/09/06 06:27 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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One of the main arguments used for slamming the resumption of hostilities in Iraq was that Hussein was "contained" -- that he was no longer any danger to anyone other than Iraqis, therefore it was up to Iraqis and no one else to deal with him.
If you could explain how the Sudanese government is a danger to anyone outside Sudan's borders, perhaps we could discuss it further. But if America is supposed to learn from its "mistakes" (assuming the resumption of hostilities in Iraq was a mistake), then asking America to interfere with Sudan's internal politics seems more than a tad contradictory.
Phred
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barfightlard
tales of theinexpressible



Registered: 01/29/03 
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Re: Since America cares so much for others [Re: Phred]
#5609836 - 05/09/06 06:52 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Well, the latest main reason for going into Iraq was to free it's people from a brutal regime, so why haven't the USA helped out nations in even worse conditions(especially since they are much weaker than Iraq was). Why did Iraq recieve this "help" over all of the others?
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"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

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Re: Since America cares so much for others [Re: barfightlard]
#5609919 - 05/09/06 07:09 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Because their leader was an out of control war mongering shit bag with a history of invading other countries and assisting terrorists. He was also under obligation to adhere to an inspection regimen which he defied.
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downforpot
Stranger

Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 5,715
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Re: Since America cares so much for others [Re: barfightlard]
#5609941 - 05/09/06 07:15 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
bellylard said: Why hasn't she done anything for Darfur, which is FAR worse off under their government than Iraqis were. No profit to be made or no strategic military positioning with limited resistence from the puppet government to be installed?
http://www.shoutwire.com/viewstory/11864/Darfur_A_Genocide_We_Can_Stop
Haven't you been watching the news? UN is on it's way, with the US ambassador leading the way.
By the way, Shell drills in Sudan... Heh.
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http://www.myspace.com/4th25 "And I don't care if he was handcuffed Then shot in his head All I know is dead bodies Can't fuck with me again"
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: Since America cares so much for others [Re: barfightlard]
#5610011 - 05/09/06 07:27 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Africa is a mess. I say let them kill each other.
Edited by RandalFlagg (05/09/06 07:27 PM)
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David_vs_Goliath
Informer


Registered: 04/01/06
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Re: Since America cares so much for others [Re: RandalFlagg]
#5610190 - 05/09/06 08:00 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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thats embaressing
-------------------- "People living deeply have no fear of death." "Love the animals, love the plants, love everything. If you love everything, you will perceive the divine mystery in things. Once you perceive it, you will begin to comprehend it better every day. And you will come at last to love the whole world with an all-embracing love." "Our problems are man-made, therefore they may be solved by man. No problem of human destiny is beyond human beings."
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Phred
Fred's son


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Re: Since America cares so much for others [Re: barfightlard]
#5610343 - 05/09/06 08:33 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Well, the latest main reason for going into Iraq was to free it's people from a brutal regime, so why haven't the USA helped out nations in even worse conditions(especially since they are much weaker than Iraq was). Why did Iraq recieve this "help" over all of the others?
Do you believe the US was right to come to the aid of the Iraqis being held hostage by Hussein's Ba'athist thugs? No, you don't. Why then do you think the US should make the same "mistake" twice? Aren't nations supposed to learn from their mistakes?
Phred
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David_vs_Goliath
Informer


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Re: Since America cares so much for others [Re: Phred]
#5610412 - 05/09/06 08:51 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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considering the case in Sudan is different and sepereate rebel groups and the case in Iraq was a large nation under a tyrant with money and power. I think they are two completely different situations. I think we deffinatly should be there.
-------------------- "People living deeply have no fear of death." "Love the animals, love the plants, love everything. If you love everything, you will perceive the divine mystery in things. Once you perceive it, you will begin to comprehend it better every day. And you will come at last to love the whole world with an all-embracing love." "Our problems are man-made, therefore they may be solved by man. No problem of human destiny is beyond human beings."
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis


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Re: Since America cares so much for others [Re: Phred]
#5610420 - 05/09/06 08:53 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Is it a bad thing that the USA is giving money to people in need?
I thought the liberals would love this wasting of my tax money....
Whats to say that the warlords over there, will not hold the food for political/ territorial gain....just like Somalia?
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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TheCow
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Re: Since America cares so much for others [Re: Phred]
#5610498 - 05/09/06 09:13 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Show me the mass genocide of people that was currently going on in the Iraq regime and I will buy your argument. The reason for war was WMD's let us remember, not because he was murdering people, that came afterwards. So please point out the genocide that was ongoing when we went into Iraq.
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Gijith
Daisy Chain Eater

Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 2,400
Loc: New York
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Re: Since America cares so much for others [Re: barfightlard]
#5610526 - 05/09/06 09:23 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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How does a country 'care' exactly?
-------------------- what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?
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EquilibriuM
dream stalker

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Re: Since America cares so much for others [Re: Gijith]
#5610640 - 05/09/06 09:58 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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A country is just a word for a bunch of people that occupy a piece of land.... So saying a country cares, is saying the people that live in this one area of land "care" - Or the people that control the people of this one piece of land "care"
-------------------- HELP!!!!!!!!!
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.


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Re: Since America cares so much for others [Re: barfightlard]
#5610758 - 05/09/06 10:28 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I thought Canada was going to HELP with Darfur??????????
Maybe they backed out because it could turn into a Quagmire.....
They are OIL RICH... maybe we (USA) could help.
Noooooo the liberal CUNTS would only say we are helping for Halliburton.....
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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downforpot
Stranger

Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 5,715
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Re: Since America cares so much for others [Re: lonestar2004]
#5610789 - 05/09/06 10:35 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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LOL. Shell drills in Sudan. Gives the money to the Muslim government, which then kills the Christians. LOL.
So if we start boming Sudan, we will be basically funding the war on both sides, 
Since US is a world power, it is expected to help. So don't even bring up Canada. Also, the American people will only give a fuck about something when it is on their television sets and if you haven't noticed, Sudan/Darfur has been all over the TV recently. So Bush got up and said "OMG, we got a genocide on our hands."
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http://www.myspace.com/4th25 "And I don't care if he was handcuffed Then shot in his head All I know is dead bodies Can't fuck with me again"
Edited by downforpot (05/09/06 10:40 PM)
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SirTripAlot
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Re: Since America cares so much for others [Re: downforpot]
#5612455 - 05/10/06 12:16 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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downforpot stated :Also, the American people will only give a fuck about something when it is on their television sets and if you haven't noticed,
At least we do something, there are plenty of other nations, that see it on their TVs and do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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dedjam
Electro Penguin



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Re: Since America cares so much for others [Re: SirTripAlot]
#5612485 - 05/10/06 12:21 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
SirTripAlot said: downforpot stated :Also, the American people will only give a fuck about something when it is on their television sets and if you haven't noticed,
At least we do something, there are plenty of other nations, that see it on their TVs and do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
Thats because they are all sitting on thier asses thinking "hmmm the united states should do something about that" We are expected by the rest of the world to police and financially support half the world, even if they dont agree with us...but as soon as we do, we are the bad guys. Amazing.
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Rono
DSYSB since '01


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Re: Since America cares so much for others [Re: zappaisgod]
#5612562 - 05/10/06 12:37 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: Because their leader was an out of control war mongering shit bag with a history of invading other countries and assisting terrorists.
Your description sounds suspiciously familiar for some reason.
-------------------- "Life has never been weird enough for my liking"
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downforpot
Stranger

Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 5,715
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Re: Since America cares so much for others [Re: SirTripAlot]
#5612765 - 05/10/06 01:36 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
SirTripAlot said: downforpot stated :Also, the American people will only give a fuck about something when it is on their television sets and if you haven't noticed,
At least we do something, there are plenty of other nations, that see it on their TVs and do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
They can't do much. Our country has the most wealth. We can pretty much help anyone we want to without it being a financial strain on us.
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http://www.myspace.com/4th25 "And I don't care if he was handcuffed Then shot in his head All I know is dead bodies Can't fuck with me again"
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quillini
one meanmotorscooter


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Re: Since America cares so much for others [Re: Phred]
#5612841 - 05/10/06 01:56 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Phred said: One of the main arguments used for slamming the resumption of hostilities in Iraq was that Hussein was "contained" -- that he was no longer any danger to anyone other than Iraqis, therefore it was up to Iraqis and no one else to deal with him.
If you could explain how the Sudanese government is a danger to anyone outside Sudan's borders, perhaps we could discuss it further. But if America is supposed to learn from its "mistakes" (assuming the resumption of hostilities in Iraq was a mistake), then asking America to interfere with Sudan's internal politics seems more than a tad contradictory.
Phred
OK, let me try to put this as clearly as I can. You'll probably call me a hyprocrite, but try to follow me here:
I don't think it was wrong for the US to oust Saddam. Under the right circumstances, with the right planning, for the right reasons, it would have been sweet. What I always had a problem with was the way the war was prosecuted. Iraq was branded as part of this ill-defined "War on Terrorism" thing, when it actually had nothing to do with terrorism at all. So we invade Iraq with no postwar planning, meaning reconstruction by default would be our problem. In light of the terrorist insurgency, if you want to call it that, we had thus confined our battlefront to the borders of one country. When the problem we were trying to address spanned over several countries, it is easy to see how occupying Iraq immediately put us at a disadvantage. So now terrorists can come into Iraq from Iran, Syria, and Saudi Arabia, shoot our guys with RPGs and plant a bunch of IEDs and so forth, do their damage, and return home to prepare for another strike. This is a bad position, and we are now essentially playing whack-a-mole with these people.
Again, if we weren't in the middle of a global aniterrorism campaign, I would have been all for invading Iraq. If Bush said "it's time to get rid of Saddam Hussein because he's just a fucker", he would have had me from the word go. But instead he just told a bunch of lies about WMDs, "misunderestimated" the sectarian conflict that was bound to happen after the fall of the Saddam regime, and labeled anybody who asked questions as unpatriotic. Saddam was indeed contained, but the only reason that fact was used to slam the war was because the opposite claim (that Saddam was an imminent threat) was the rationale being used to go to war. If you want to topple Saddam just because he's a fucker, I'm right with you. But instead we got hoodwinked into it, and that is inexcusable.
Please remember, at the time it was all about the WMDs. That's all anyone was thinking about. Post-9/11, that was quite a potent argument, that our security here at home was at stake. I don't begrudge Bush for being a warmonger so much as a fearmonger. He spun the Iraq thing like it was part of 9/11. That was the most offensive thing about it. Even in the debates with Kerry, when it was suggested that we invaded for no reason (and just to be fair, it was a suggestion made by that fucker Kerry that voted for it himself), Bush responded "they hit us first", obviously referring to 9/11.
My point is that, though the invasion itself might have been morally justified, the timing and planning of it were horrible and the reasons for it were all wrong. You might say the end justifies the means but that simply does not fly. With the proper planning and perspective, many aspects of our present hardship could have been avoided. Great strategic mistakes have been made because only a few points of view on it were even considered. There was never any level-headed, rational discussion, because everybody was scared out of their minds thinking Saddam was going to attack us.
So I fully support intervention in Darfur, so long as it's planned out and done for right and consistent reasons. On the same note, I also think the fundie regime in Iran should be toppled. We would have been much better off with Saddam and without Iran than we are presently with the situation reversed.
-------------------- No; truth, being alive, was not halfway between anything. It was only to be found by continuous excursions into either realm, and though proportion is the final secret, to espouse it at the outset is to insure sterility. Only connect...
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

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Re: Since America cares so much for others [Re: quillini]
#5613682 - 05/10/06 04:49 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
quillini said:
Quote:
Phred said: One of the main arguments used for slamming the resumption of hostilities in Iraq was that Hussein was "contained" -- that he was no longer any danger to anyone other than Iraqis, therefore it was up to Iraqis and no one else to deal with him.
If you could explain how the Sudanese government is a danger to anyone outside Sudan's borders, perhaps we could discuss it further. But if America is supposed to learn from its "mistakes" (assuming the resumption of hostilities in Iraq was a mistake), then asking America to interfere with Sudan's internal politics seems more than a tad contradictory.
Phred
OK, let me try to put this as clearly as I can. You'll probably call me a hyprocrite, but try to follow me here:
I don't think it was wrong for the US to oust Saddam. Under the right circumstances, with the right planning, for the right reasons, it would have been sweet. What I always had a problem with was the way the war was prosecuted.
Well that's certainly your prerogative, although I find it absurd to think it was poorly prosecuted when there have been a tiny amount of casualties in the takeover of a nation of 26 million people. Or do you mean something else by "prosecuted." Perhaps you mean justified.
Quote:
Iraq was branded as part of this ill-defined "War on Terrorism" thing, when it actually had nothing to do with terrorism at all.
This is incorrect. Hussein offered safe haven to bin Laden. Cursory search turned this up. http://www.weeklystandard.com/Utilities/printer_preview.asp?idArticle=5780&R=C75734D Other terror connections are here http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1571/is_41_18/ai_95358025 There is very strong evidence that Hussein had ties to all kinds of terrorist organizations and wanted, and actively sought, more. It's just the truth. Everybody seems to get all bent out of shape that there was no active al Qaeda connection as if they are the only terrorist organization in the world targeting Americans. They are not. They just had the single most spectacular success. The war is on terrorists, not just al Qaeda. Hussein had connections to terrorists. End of story.Quote:
So we invade Iraq with no postwar planning, meaning reconstruction by default would be our problem. In light of the terrorist insurgency, if you want to call it that, we had thus confined our battlefront to the borders of one country. When the problem we were trying to address spanned over several countries, it is easy to see how occupying Iraq immediately put us at a disadvantage.
Au contraire. I see this as a successful strategy. To concentrate the enemy into one arena where you have your most effective fighters and to keep the fight away from where you are most vulnerable is absolutely brilliant. This is in fact an advantage. The scum know it too. See this http://www.centcom.mil/sites/uscentcom1/...done_may_3.aspx Wherein they decry their lack of effectiveness. It is only the bleating of those who desire our failure that makes it seem so. Every setback is trumpeted from the mountaintop. Every success is ignored. So it goes.
Quote:
\ So now terrorists can come into Iraq from Iran, Syria, and Saudi Arabia, shoot our guys with RPGs and plant a bunch of IEDs and so forth, do their damage, and return home to prepare for another strike. This is a bad position, and we are now essentially playing whack-a-mole with these people.
It is always whack a mole with this enemy. See above about why the theater is to our advantageQuote:
Again, if we weren't in the middle of a global aniterrorism campaign, I would have been all for invading Iraq. If Bush said "it's time to get rid of Saddam Hussein because he's just a fucker", he would have had me from the word go. But instead he just told a bunch of lies about WMDs, "misunderestimated" the sectarian conflict that was bound to happen after the fall of the Saddam regime, and labeled anybody who asked questions as unpatriotic. Saddam was indeed contained, but the only reason that fact was used to slam the war was because the opposite claim (that Saddam was an imminent threat) was the rationale being used to go to war. If you want to topple Saddam just because he's a fucker, I'm right with you. But instead we got hoodwinked into it, and that is inexcusable.
I disagree. There was a whole list of reasons presented. Good enough for me was his defiance of the cease fire agreement. There was also plenty of reason by several different intelligence agencies, both foreign and domestic, to believe that he had WMDs. Even putting that aside, if the pressure ever was allowed to let up he would get them again. And more. And attack us any way he could. No, he had to go. Better late than never.Quote:
Please remember, at the time it was all about the WMDs. That's all anyone was thinking about. Post-9/11, that was quite a potent argument, that our security here at home was at stake. I don't begrudge Bush for being a warmonger so much as a fearmonger. He spun the Iraq thing like it was part of 9/11. That was the most offensive thing about it. Even in the debates with Kerry, when it was suggested that we invaded for no reason (and just to be fair, it was a suggestion made by that fucker Kerry that voted for it himself), Bush responded "they hit us first", obviously referring to 9/11.
You cannot find one single quote from Bush that tied Hussein to 9/11. Sorry, it just doesn't exist. You cannot blame Bush for statements he never made. "Obviously referring to 9/11" Not to me.Quote:
My point is that, though the invasion itself might have been morally justified, the timing and planning of it were horrible and the reasons for it were all wrong. You might say the end justifies the means but that simply does not fly. With the proper planning and perspective, many aspects of our present hardship could have been avoided. Great strategic mistakes have been made because only a few points of view on it were even considered. There was never any level-headed, rational discussion, because everybody was scared out of their minds thinking Saddam was going to attack us.
I don't know who you think was "scared out of their minds." I certainly wasn't. I still saw a need to finish the job that was left undone a decade ago. My objection to the timing is that it should have just been done the first time. Done. Finished. Completed. In 1990. Will you ever get 100% consensus on anything like this? Of course not. It's foolish to ask for it or ecpect it. Somebody always thinks they have a better idea. Monday morning quarterbacks. Feh.Quote:
So I fully support intervention in Darfur, so long as it's planned out and done for right and consistent reasons. On the same note, I also think the fundie regime in Iran should be toppled. We would have been much better off with Saddam and without Iran than we are presently with the situation reversed.
There is no international rationale supporting an invasion of Iran. To date, they haven't done anything but shout. The Sudan? There seems to have been some kind of accord reached with the rebels. We'll see. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060507/ap_on_re_mi_ea/darfur
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gregorio
Too Damn Old


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Re: Since America cares so much for others [Re: barfightlard]
#5627568 - 05/14/06 06:43 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I wish we would just get out of the nation building business. American taxpayers have no moral obligation to finance such endeavors. Call all of our troops home; from Korea to Iraq. Close up all military bases on foreign soil. A foreign conflict sprouts up---who cares? It is not our problem I hope you all kill each other in the process. If you let the shit spread across those 2 big oceans your country will cease to exist in a blink of an eye.
And don't let me forget, no more foreign aid as well, our own house is broken and in need of repairs so go find someone else to mooch off of. And even after we fix our own house our money is going to stay in this hemisphere, the Old World can just go off and die a nice slow death all on their own.
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Alex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
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Re: Since America cares so much for others [Re: zappaisgod]
#5627922 - 05/14/06 10:27 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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This is incorrect. Hussein offered safe haven to bin LadenCursory search turned this up.
The trouble with doing a cursory search is you usually come up with garbage. That article is by Stephen F Hayes, a notorious and completely unreliable bullshitter.
There is very strong evidence that Hussein had ties to all kinds of terrorist organizations
Bullshit.
as if they are the only terrorist organization in the world targeting Americans
Which others do you think there are?
Do you think he has more links to terrorist organisations than the United States has?
There was also plenty of reason by several different intelligence agencies, both foreign and domestic, to believe that he had WMDs
Bullshit.
Even putting that aside, if the pressure ever was allowed to let up he would get them again. And more
Bullshit. He's Saddam not Dr Evil.
My objection to the timing is that it should have just been done the first time. Done. Finished. Completed.
So you'd have liked 16 years of utter chaos and civil war in Iraq instead of the 3 we've had? Doesn't make much sense does it.
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Luddite
I watch Fox News


Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 2,946
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Re: Since America cares so much for others [Re: Alex213]
#5627999 - 05/14/06 10:52 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Phred
Fred's son


Registered: 10/18/00
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Re: Since America cares so much for others [Re: Alex213]
#5628030 - 05/14/06 11:03 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
The trouble with doing a cursory search is you usually come up with garbage. That article is by Stephen F Hayes, a notorious and completely unreliable bullshitter.
In the eyes of Alex213 and no one else. The information Hayes provides is from open sources and is easily checkable. The specific case being discussed -- Iraq's offer of safe haven to bin Laden -- is confirmed in the report of the 9/11 Commission, for example.
Phred
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs



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Re: Since America cares so much for others [Re: gregorio]
#5628280 - 05/14/06 12:18 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
gregorio said: I wish we would just get out of the nation building business. American taxpayers have no moral obligation to finance such endeavors. Call all of our troops home; from Korea to Iraq. Close up all military bases on foreign soil. A foreign conflict sprouts up---who cares? It is not our problem I hope you all kill each other in the process. If you let the shit spread across those 2 big oceans your country will cease to exist in a blink of an eye.
And don't let me forget, no more foreign aid as well, our own house is broken and in need of repairs so go find someone else to mooch off of. And even after we fix our own house our money is going to stay in this hemisphere, the Old World can just go off and die a nice slow death all on their own.

If I knew what the "clap" smiley one, I would have given it to you. I don't think I've ever agreed with a post more than this one in the entire time I've posted in PAL.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

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Re: Since America cares so much for others [Re: Alex213]
#5628448 - 05/14/06 01:32 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Alex213 said: This is incorrect. Hussein offered safe haven to bin LadenCursory search turned this up.
The trouble with doing a cursory search is you usually come up with garbage. That article is by Stephen F Hayes, a notorious and completely unreliable bullshitter.
Flack or bullshitter or not is irrelevant to this direct quote "Conveniently, such analyses ignore statements like this one from Thomas Kean, chairman of the 9/11 Commission. "There was no question in our minds that there was a relationship between Iraq and al Qaeda." Hard to believe reporters just missed it--he made the comments at the press conference held to release the commission's final report. And that report detailed several "friendly contacts" between Iraq and al Qaeda, and concluded only that there was no proof of Iraqi involvement in al Qaeda terrorist attacks against American interests. Details, details." I assume he can quote accurately. You don't have to and can continue to believe whatever nonsense you likeQuote:
There is very strong evidence that Hussein had ties to all kinds of terrorist organizations
Bullshit.
I supplied a link. You supply nothing except "bullshit." Which is all you've got, bullshit.Quote:
as if they are the only terrorist organization in the world targeting Americans
Which others do you think there are?
Lots and lots. http://www.armscontrolcenter.org/terrorism/101/timeline.html
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Do you think he has more links to terrorist organisations than the United States has?
Very funny, Markos. In your world the only terrorist organizations he currently has links to are the USA and the illegitimate Iraqi government. How about you supply us with some examples. Yeah, how about it. With links. And sources. You know, like I do.Quote:
There was also plenty of reason by several different intelligence agencies, both foreign and domestic, to believe that he had WMDs
Bullshit.
More pure genius, but this has been gone over repeatedly and I don't give a shit what you think, only what some of the more impressionable members might think if your nonsense went unchallenged.Quote:
Even putting that aside, if the pressure ever was allowed to let up he would get them again. And more
Bullshit. He's Saddam not Dr Evil.
You have your conjecture, I have mine. Those document translations keep getting better and better all the time. Quote:
My objection to the timing is that it should have just been done the first time. Done. Finished. Completed.
So you'd have liked 16 years of utter chaos and civil war in Iraq instead of the 3 we've had? Doesn't make much sense does it.
You assume things not in evidence. I suspect it would have been better done right in the first place. Only Kool-aid drinkers think Iraq was ever a happy place under Saddam and he was given far too much probation. You have no evidence backing up your assertion that there would have been chaos and civil war for 16 years. Is it your assertion that the only way these people were kept in reasonable civility was because a brutal thug controlled them completely? Because it sure looks like that. Oh yes, it looks very much like that. Alex's take on Iraq, "These people are animals who can only be kept under control with the military boot of a thug." Maybe you're right. I personally wouldn't be so quick to throw them under that bus, myself, but you can desire it, if you like. Are there any other stupid people who you think can only flourish under the thug's boot? The Irish, perhaps?
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Gijith
Daisy Chain Eater

Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 2,400
Loc: New York
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Re: Since America cares so much for others [Re: gregorio]
#5628509 - 05/14/06 02:02 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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gregorio said: And don't let me forget, no more foreign aid as well, our own house is broken and in need of repairs so go find someone else to mooch off of. And even after we fix our own house our money is going to stay in this hemisphere, the Old World can just go off and die a nice slow death all on their own.
Come on, you've never bought a friend a beer or anything?
-------------------- what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs



Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 3 months, 11 days
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Re: Since America cares so much for others [Re: Gijith]
#5628516 - 05/14/06 02:04 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Would you buy your friend a beer if you knew they were just going to spill it?
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Gijith
Daisy Chain Eater

Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 2,400
Loc: New York
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Re: Since America cares so much for others [Re: Redstorm]
#5628543 - 05/14/06 02:16 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Why would I be friends with such a jackass?
-------------------- what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Since America cares so much for others [Re: Redstorm]
#5628551 - 05/14/06 02:18 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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"Would you buy your friend a beer if you knew they were just going to spill it?"
Yes. I would offer him the chance to succeed. Unless he spilled it on me. Or spit and cursed me for mocking him. Or if he wasn't really my friend.
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OJK
Stranger

Registered: 06/08/03
Posts: 10,629
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Re: Since America cares so much for others [Re: Redstorm]
#5629764 - 05/14/06 07:46 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Redstorm said:
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gregorio said: I wish we would just get out of the nation building business. American taxpayers have no moral obligation to finance such endeavors. Call all of our troops home; from Korea to Iraq. Close up all military bases on foreign soil. A foreign conflict sprouts up---who cares? It is not our problem I hope you all kill each other in the process. If you let the shit spread across those 2 big oceans your country will cease to exist in a blink of an eye.
And don't let me forget, no more foreign aid as well, our own house is broken and in need of repairs so go find someone else to mooch off of. And even after we fix our own house our money is going to stay in this hemisphere, the Old World can just go off and die a nice slow death all on their own.

If I knew what the "clap" smiley one, I would have given it to you. I don't think I've ever agreed with a post more than this one in the entire time I've posted in PAL.
Yeah, you really socked it to the hundreds of millions of moochers in the world who think that just because they've been born in to a life of insurmountable poverty, want, disease, famine, drought and violence, they deserve a hand out from people who're trying to save up so they make the switch over to hi-def and are fed up with the federal government STEALING THEIR MONEY AND SENDING IT TO DIRTY AFRICANS.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Since America cares so much for others [Re: OJK]
#5629795 - 05/14/06 07:58 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I note that you have still managed to hold onto enough money to have a computer and an internet connection. WHEN PEOPLE ARE DYING IN AFRICA. For shame.
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OJK
Stranger

Registered: 06/08/03
Posts: 10,629
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Re: Since America cares so much for others [Re: zappaisgod]
#5629941 - 05/14/06 08:29 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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If you think I need to explain my life choices to a stranger on the internet to validate an argument, you're very much mistaken.
I freely admit that everything I accomplish and receive in my entire life will be fundamentally the result of a birth lottery I had no control over or stake in spitting me out into a rich country. How about you?
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: Since America cares so much for others [Re: OJK]
#5629966 - 05/14/06 08:33 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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If the poverty of certain nations and peoples bothers you then contribute to charity.
Why should we be forced to care about or give to other people?
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs



Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 3 months, 11 days
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Re: Since America cares so much for others [Re: zappaisgod]
#5629967 - 05/14/06 08:33 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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zappaisgod said: "Would you buy your friend a beer if you knew they were just going to spill it?"
Yes. I would offer him the chance to succeed. Unless he spilled it on me. Or spit and cursed me for mocking him. Or if he wasn't really my friend.
What if (metaphorically, of course) he has proven that once you give him a beer, he gets the shaky hands. You, yourself, have seen him slop beer all over himself like the animal he is on numerous occasions. Until he proves he can handle a gift like that without waste, I don't believe he deserves it.
Odium: We can give hand-outs once my gov't spends the money needed to solve the problems in my own country.
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downforpot
Stranger

Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 5,715
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Re: Since America cares so much for others [Re: OJK]
#5630278 - 05/14/06 09:36 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Odiumjunkie said: If you think I need to explain my life choices to a stranger on the internet to validate an argument, you're very much mistaken.
I freely admit that everything I accomplish and receive in my entire life will be fundamentally the result of a birth lottery I had no control over or stake in spitting me out into a rich country. How about you?
People should be greedy, not give anything to others as long AS THEY DON'T SAY THEY ARE CHRISTIAN.
I hate religion but it seems like I do follow Jesus' footsteps more than the people that label themselves as christians.
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http://www.myspace.com/4th25 "And I don't care if he was handcuffed Then shot in his head All I know is dead bodies Can't fuck with me again"
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Ekstaza
stranger than most


Registered: 04/10/03
Posts: 4,324
Loc: Around the corner
Last seen: 9 months, 23 days
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Re: Since America cares so much for others [Re: downforpot]
#5630409 - 05/14/06 10:11 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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downforpot said: People should be greedy, not give anything to others as long AS THEY DON'T SAY THEY ARE CHRISTIAN.
I hate religion but it seems like I do follow Jesus' footsteps more than the people that label themselves as christians.
Most people that claim to be christian are scandalous, gossiping scum who wouldn't help a person in need unless they they didn't have to get their hands dirty or give up too much.
Who needs christ to do the right thing? I don't.
-------------------- YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH ANY GIVEN DRUG ISN'T THE DEFINITIVE MEASURE OF THE DRUGS EFFECTS.
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Alex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
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Re: Since America cares so much for others [Re: zappaisgod]
#5631095 - 05/15/06 01:38 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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ignore statements like this one from Thomas Kean, chairman of the 9/11 Commission. "There was no question in our minds that there was a relationship between Iraq and al Qaeda
Yet he doesn't mention that the 9/11 commision found no evidence of a relationship between Iraq and al-qaeda. That's the trouble with bullshitters like Hayes, they mislead you.
I supplied a link
But you do understand that providing a link to a peice of deranged bullshit by a right-wing lunatic blindly quoting alleged Isreali intelligence "documents" might not be the truth?
Lots and lots.
The link you provide is about as weak as it gets. Even from you. Do you really consider such "terrorist" attacks as this to be an "targeting the United States"? Surely even you can't beleive this.
In Cali, Colombia, armed ELN militants attacked a church in the neighborhood of Ciudad Jardin, kidnapping 160 persons, including six U.S. citizens and one French national. The rebels released approximately 80 persons, including three U.S. citizens, later that day.
How about you supply us with some examples.
Read up on the contras. You've got a bit shock coming.
More pure genius, but this has been gone over repeatedly and I don't give a shit what you think,
You don't give a shit for the truth either. Get it through your head that the whole fantasy of WMD was bullshit. From start to finish.
You have no evidence backing up your assertion that there would have been chaos and civil war for 16 years.
I have a helluva lot more evidence than you. Iraq has been invaded. Chaos and civil war was the result. What evidence do you have to believe that invading Iraq in 1991 would have been any different.
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gregorio
Too Damn Old


Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 2,831
Loc: Classified
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
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Re: Since America cares so much for others [Re: zappaisgod]
#5631454 - 05/15/06 06:02 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: "Would you buy your friend a beer if you knew they were just going to spill it?"
Yes. I would offer him the chance to succeed. Unless he spilled it on me. Or spit and cursed me for mocking him. Or if he wasn't really my friend.
Not if he is going to hit me upside the head with the empty bottle after he is through.
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