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cupevampe
The Lunatic isin My Head


Registered: 12/31/05
Posts: 163
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 16 years, 2 months
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Aluminium
#5607764 - 05/09/06 08:02 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Guys i think there is something that should be addressed asap. I see many people use aluminium foil or aluminium trays for their experiments. I dont use it simply because I've always been warned it is harmful because mycelium kind of eat it. So, if we agree this is true, I think we should stick this or another similar message on top of the board. let's discuss.
-------------------- My Blog: The Invisible Landscape Subscribe this great podcast! www.matrixmasters.com/podcasts No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction. PS: sorry 4 my english - i'm italian *-*-* i do my best!
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Holydiver
Stranger



Registered: 03/19/01
Posts: 5,156
Loc: The midnight sea
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It's been discussed a lot, and it's my belief as well that aluminum or any metal product used in a mushroom grow is unhealthy, with the exception being metal jar lids which don't contact the substrate.
But most people are willing to risk it, and/or don't really care enough not to use it. To each his own.
-------------------- To find a place to live between the negatives and positives.
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inoculatedGreif
greif struken


Registered: 03/14/06
Posts: 663
Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
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what about plastic then? does mycilium eat that.ie. black trash bags.
-------------------- one branch of man turns away what has made us who we are, the other,excepts it for how its made man. which path do you choose? ------------------------------------- Man takes advantage of who he is,nature is his home, where he evolved from. So why does he turn it down, defy, and mutalate his birth ground? why does he spread disease, murder his native animals,rape and torture his land, and still feel descent of who he is? live a life that is not true? excepts an artificial home?
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FooMan



Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 8,957
Loc: Earth
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Quote:
inoculatedGreif said: what about plastic then? does mycilium eat that.ie. black trash bags.
No
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Quick WBS Prep
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cupevampe
The Lunatic isin My Head


Registered: 12/31/05
Posts: 163
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 16 years, 2 months
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Quote:
Holydiver said: It's been discussed a lot, and it's my belief as well that aluminum or any metal product used in a mushroom grow is unhealthy, with the exception being metal jar lids which don't contact the substrate.
But most people are willing to risk it, and/or don't really care enough not to use it. To each his own.
It is my belief too, that metal is unhealthy! But is it a scientific fact? If so we should keep posting aluminium and metal warnings every now and then.
-------------------- My Blog: The Invisible Landscape Subscribe this great podcast! www.matrixmasters.com/podcasts No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction. PS: sorry 4 my english - i'm italian *-*-* i do my best!
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FooMan



Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 8,957
Loc: Earth
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Yes, you can be the designated aluminum guy!
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Quick WBS Prep
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Anno
Experimenter



Registered: 06/17/99
Posts: 24,166
Loc: my room
Last seen: 20 days, 18 hours
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>But is it a scientific fact?
No.
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cupevampe
The Lunatic isin My Head


Registered: 12/31/05
Posts: 163
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 16 years, 2 months
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Re: Aluminium [Re: FooMan]
#5608165 - 05/09/06 10:32 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
FooManShroom said: Yes, you can be the designated aluminum guy!
eheheheh yeah i might up the post every now and then...
Guys u sure this is not scientific fact? because hey i've heard about not using aluminium trays so many times...
-------------------- My Blog: The Invisible Landscape Subscribe this great podcast! www.matrixmasters.com/podcasts No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction. PS: sorry 4 my english - i'm italian *-*-* i do my best!
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IGnosticAbhorI
Stranger-er

Registered: 11/06/04
Posts: 4,899
Last seen: 8 months, 5 days
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Quote:
hey i've heard about not using aluminium trays so many times...
People say a lot of shit all the time around here, but that doesn't make it all fact.
All I know is that the myc. has eaten the alum. on me a couple of times. i'm pretty sure the myc. is absording something from it...Now as to whether or not it's making something toxic or harmful and whether or not it's in the myc. ...
I'd rather use something that doesn't seem as if it's being absorbed tho, :
Plastic wrap should do just fine . It should hold the casing (which alum. does) and it shouldn't rust or be eaten 

-Gnostic
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alsnow469
Stranger

Registered: 10/15/05
Posts: 392
Last seen: 6 months, 13 days
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Re: Aluminium [Re: FooMan]
#5608507 - 05/09/06 12:16 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I wonder if it's as unhealthy as
screwing with your brain chemestry.
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iamyour_messiah
Stranger

Registered: 03/07/06
Posts: 273
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
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^^ good point, and funny that wasn't actually like the first comment to be made
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shroomballa
ShroomBalla


Registered: 03/26/06
Posts: 263
Loc: Montana
Last seen: 16 years, 6 months
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Quote:
IGnosticAbhorI said:
All I know is that the myc. has eaten the alum. on me a couple of times. i'm pretty sure the myc. is absording something from it...Now as to whether or not it's making something toxic or harmful and whether or not it's in the myc. -Gnostic
Do you have any pictures of the aluminum after it's been 'eaten'? I would think plastic would be easier to decompose than metal
-------------------- Anything I say is fictional. Duh.
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Oatman2000
-=Outa Space=-



Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2,877
Loc: Planetary Nebula
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
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but seriously it took a long time to do this, and it was contaminated??!?
--------------------
Spawning to COIR
My Chocolate Recipe
WBS QUART SPAWN JAR PREPERATION ----------------------------
4-PO-DMT; 4-phosphoryloxy-N,N-dimethltryptamine
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure


Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 11 months, 3 days
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As far as scientific fact goes, Stamets has had mushrooms tested in a lab after using for mycoremediaton and found that heavy metals in the soil are taken up into the fruitbodies. That is probably as close to actual proof as we're going to get.
It seems to me that if the aluminum is being metabolized to the point of eating holes in the tray after just a couple of weeks, the possiblilty there is aluminum in the fruits should not be discounted. Aluminum in the body has been implicated in Alzhimers. I used to use the aluminum bread pans, but stopped when I learned the above.
I've seen trays rot worse than the one above after just one flush. I'd post pics but I've thrown them all away. RR
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hyphae
born to grow


Registered: 12/13/02
Posts: 6,228
Loc: the rain forests
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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My take is I've never had trays eaten through like that even after going 7 or 8 flushes but I used heavy duty pans I guess although I have seen this with others that reuse their trays. I have seen with my trays that the metabolic by-products do corrode the trays, it isn't the myc actually eating it that would be silly LOL! Although what isn't known is whether the corroded heavy metal by-product is readily absorbed by the mycelium, something that can't be ruled out! Now what was I talking about again?
-------------------- Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy. Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is Gas Exchange vs. FAE "We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"
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Anno
Experimenter



Registered: 06/17/99
Posts: 24,166
Loc: my room
Last seen: 20 days, 18 hours
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said: Aluminum in the body has been implicated in Alzhimers. RR
Here is what the Alzheimer Society of Great Britain has to say about this:
"There is circumstantial evidence linking this metal with Alzheimer's disease but no causal relationship has yet been proved. As evidence for other causes continues to grow, a possible link with aluminium seems increasingly unlikely."
National Institute of Enviromental Health Services: "Long-term exposure is easiest to estimate for drinking water exposures. Epidemiological studies attempting to link AD with exposures in drinking water have been inconclusive and contradictory. Thus, the significance of increased aluminum intake with regard to onset of AD has not been determined."
Keep in mind, that even if there is some aluminium in the mushrooms, compare the amounts you eat per year with other foods and beverages, and you will see that the amount is so small, it is very likely insigificatnt.
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Anonymous
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Post deleted by Anno [Re: Oatman2000]
#5631027 - 05/15/06 01:12 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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mikeownow
Humungus fungus

Registered: 09/01/05
Posts: 2,856
Loc: WA,USA
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
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Re: Aluminium [Re: ]
#5631167 - 05/15/06 02:12 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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take a plastic dish washing tub. problem solved.
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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skeletor
the dude
Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 1,235
Loc: heaven on earth
Last seen: 17 years, 4 months
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banana bread loaf pans. mmmm this causes you to buy more pans which causes you to make more banana bread to fill these pans when they aren't being used to grow mushrooms.
-------------------- im sorry about your mother. She was a terrible attrative woman. Get back to nature; hunting burgers and gathering fries.
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Oatman2000
-=Outa Space=-



Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2,877
Loc: Planetary Nebula
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
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Re: Aluminium [Re: skeletor]
#5633922 - 05/15/06 05:31 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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i use plastic now. about a buck a piece from ace hardware....
22" x 11" make great casing trays.
--------------------
Spawning to COIR
My Chocolate Recipe
WBS QUART SPAWN JAR PREPERATION ----------------------------
4-PO-DMT; 4-phosphoryloxy-N,N-dimethltryptamine
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trauma47645
The MushroomKing


Registered: 02/09/06
Posts: 771
Loc: Somewhere in this place c...
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hey what about those new fangled silcone bakeware pans.. they are hypoallergenic and resistant to heat and chemicals
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splifner180
Student


Registered: 03/24/06
Posts: 1,288
Loc: USA, East Coast
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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I think a far more relevant discussion is the proper pronunciation of "aluminum."
Should we go with the British "aluminium" (with the extra "i") or the American "aluminum?"
splif
-------------------- First Grow: Ecuador -> LC -> HPoo/Straw -> Monotub Build a Do-It-Yourself Magnetic Stirrer in thirty minutes with no money.
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StainBlue
Da Man


Registered: 04/11/02
Posts: 392
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
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Quote:
trauma47645 said: hey what about those new fangled silcone bakeware pans.. they are hypoallergenic and resistant to heat and chemicals
A heat resistant baking pan? That's odd. Maybe I'm just confused.
-------------------- Peace, StainBlue
Edited by StainBlue (05/15/06 07:31 PM)
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monstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work


Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay
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I don't believe aluminum has an "extra" I in it.
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Triad
♫Tool♫



Registered: 08/19/05
Posts: 360
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 13 years, 8 months
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"In English-speaking countries, the spellings (and associated pronunciations) aluminium and aluminum are both in common use in scientific and nonscientific contexts. In the United States and English-speaking Canada, the spelling aluminium is largely unknown, and the spelling aluminum predominates. Elsewhere in other English-speaking countries the spelling aluminium predominates, and the spelling aluminum is largely unknown."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium#Spelling
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Saffronic
Stranger
Registered: 05/13/06
Posts: 27
Last seen: 17 years, 6 days
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Re: Aluminium [Re: Triad]
#5634887 - 05/15/06 08:42 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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oh damn I just put aluminum foil under all my cakes
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mskip23
Can It All Be So Simple!


Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 1,522
Loc: Philly
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Quote:
Saffronic said: oh damn I just put aluminum foil under all my cakes
-------------------- url=https://files.shroomery.org/files/05-26/988356075-Picture-278.gif] [/url
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CrazyPsilocybe
King Of AllJackasses

Registered: 04/30/06
Posts: 83
Loc: United States of Ass Rapi...
Last seen: 15 years, 10 months
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Re: Aluminium [Re: mskip23]
#5635623 - 05/15/06 11:20 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Mycelium is amazing at eating various objects, read Mycelium Running to find out their amazing ability to break down all sorts of things you wouldn't normally think possible. (doesn't mention aluminum cooking pans for clandestine grow-ups though,sorry )
I can tell you aluminum reacts to acid which mycelium excretes, so over time it will convert the aluminum to aluminum salts which will then be absorbed. Want to find out for yourself? take a 2-liter coke bottle and muriatic acid (hydrochloric acid for pools) and roll a piece of aluminum foil up, put it in, screw the top and throw - wait one minute and listen to the explosion. It generates hydrogen and is converted to aluminum chloride.
All metals are reactive in this way because it's just a "sea of electrons". this makes metals reactive to acids, some moreso than others. This is why acids are only bottled in glass or plastic.
-------------------- "I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me." -Hunter S. Thompson
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CantiSama

Registered: 10/21/04
Posts: 794
Last seen: 4 months, 10 days
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Re: Aluminium [Re: skeletor]
#5639733 - 05/16/06 09:58 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
skeletor said: banana bread loaf pans. mmmm this causes you to buy more pans which causes you to make more banana bread to fill these pans when they aren't being used to grow mushrooms.
i like this idea.
--------------------
Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly; Man got to sit and wonder 'why, why, why?' Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land; Man got to tell himself he understand.
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Aluminum pans work great. They're the cheapest and best way to do pans and afterwards you can recycle them for $$$.
The ONLY scientific reason not to use aluminum is to reduce side pinning due to the reflectivity of the aluminum.
It's the acidity of "myc piss" that causes holes in aluminum pans, not the myc "eating" it. This also won't happen until you've used the pans MANY times.
I would also point out that aluminum is NOT a heavy metal and that 8% of the earth's surface is composed of aluminum. It's the third most abundant element on earth.
There are 35 metals of concern, with 23 of them called "heavy metals". Aluminum is not one of them.
Aluminum is constantly ingested by humans through the use of food additives, antacids, buffered aspirin, astringents, nasal sprays, antiperspirants, from drinking water, automobile exhaust, tobacco smoke, and from using aluminum foil, aluminum cookware, aluminum cans, and ceramics.
The additional amount you would get from using aluminum pans to grow your mushrooms, in comparison to your normal daily intake, is infinitesimal.
-FF
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure


Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 11 months, 3 days
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Re: Aluminium [Re: fastfred]
#5863619 - 07/15/06 11:43 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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You do like your caps. I've had aluminum pans with holes in them after just one flush and so have many others. Since that material is gone, one has to wonder where it went. I choose not to use them anymore, especially since I'm on at least the tenth cycle of use from the Glad black plastic baking trays. Others of course can choose differently. RR
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Omnicracker
Crusted Trolltivator

Registered: 09/18/05
Posts: 1,421
Loc: Wal-Merica
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ive also had pans that were riddled with holes after one flush, and ive never had one last long enough for a second grow. now i just use womens shoes.
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beatnicknick
The Innovator


Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 1,074
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Question- is it too risky, is there a way to dump my casing and substrate out after it has colonized the top layer of verm and put plastic wrap all over the aluminum? Or will it all fall apart?
-------------------- I don't think for myself. I think as though I'm explaining my thoughts to someone else. I'm concerned only for those listening.
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Omnicracker
Crusted Trolltivator

Registered: 09/18/05
Posts: 1,421
Loc: Wal-Merica
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NO! dont do that. this isnt a life or death issue, its not even clear what the consequences of using aluminum are. last i heard, i think it was a part of 'Myc. Running' but the fruit of fungus used to clean up toxic matter contained no poisons in them. uh... thats bad proof right there. but from experience, ive used aluminum with no problems, i just had to replace trays so much that i switched to plastic tubs. just consider it for your future grows, finish what youve got in the aluminum, i would put money down that you still trip balls.
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beatnicknick
The Innovator


Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 1,074
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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idc about how hard I trip, i'm just concerned about my health. that's why i do mushrooms instead of heroine and coke.
i guess i'll just let my friends have this batch, just to be sure. they dont give a shit if they get alzheimers 60 years from now in exchange for free shrooms.
-------------------- I don't think for myself. I think as though I'm explaining my thoughts to someone else. I'm concerned only for those listening.
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Hmm... Maybe they just don't make aluminum pans like they used to. Mine were always good for 4+ runs, and almost always got thrown out for being too beat up before they developed any holes.
Alzheimer's is genetic, you're not going to get it from aluminum exposure. If you have a family history and know you're going to get it then maybe avoiding aluminum will put it off another 6 months, but so would a better diet and exercise.
They'll also most likely have a vaccine for alzheimer's in the next 10 years. They already have a working one, but unfortunately it works too well and killed a test subject due to brain inflammation. That should be fixed before too long.
I'm all for plastic, but aluminum is cheaper and perfectly safe. It just doesn't make sense to rub aluminum based anti-perspirant on your body, then drink soda and beer out of aluminum cans, then eat bread and a lot of other foods made in aluminum cookware, and then worry about the aluminum content in a handful of grams of mushrooms that happened to be prepared in an aluminum tray.
-FF
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liamtheloser
Advanced Idiot

Registered: 06/07/06
Posts: 1,453
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Re: Aluminium [Re: fastfred]
#5865539 - 07/16/06 01:15 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Not to mention a lot of people are cooking their substrate jars in an aluminum pressure cooker, and if they're anything like mine, they have a little bit of aluminum oxide in there when they're done :P
Not to mention, you aren't eating pounds of mushrooms every day, in fact, you're eating a couple grams every few weeks at the most... I mean, if you're going to be a hippie about it, just grow them naturally in the ground man... return to mother earth! We all just need to love.
Peace, brother love.
--------------------
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trentallica
Lord Trentnar


Registered: 05/01/06
Posts: 797
Loc: virgina
Last seen: 8 years, 8 months
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Quote:
splifner180 said: I think a far more relevant discussion is the proper pronunciation of "aluminum."
Should we go with the British "aluminium" (with the extra "i") or the American "aluminum?"
splif
im an american, so ill stick with that pronunciation.
-------------------- The only ones for me are the mad ones..........
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trentallica
Lord Trentnar


Registered: 05/01/06
Posts: 797
Loc: virgina
Last seen: 8 years, 8 months
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ok ok ill stop using the aluminum trays.
-------------------- The only ones for me are the mad ones..........
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