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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: Ambition [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5608143 - 05/09/06 10:23 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

oh,and the CEO of HP is a sucessfull person? He is just rich and influential, on the planet of retards.
I bet I have more fun during the day than him.


Carly Fiorina isn't a man:



And "fun", you say? What is "fun"? Totally subjective. Fun is whatever One takes pleasure in doing. But in my world, pleasure is not the standard of morality nor success - although, it can be the goal of it.




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Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Ambition [Re: dblaney]
    #5608156 - 05/09/06 10:28 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I think it really depends on what your ambitions are, and what you're willing to do to achieve it. If you're willing to exploit and step over other people to achieve your ambitions, then I would say you're a little too ambitious.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Ambition [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #5608175 - 05/09/06 10:36 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

SkorpivoMusterion said:
oh,and the CEO of HP is a sucessfull person? He is just rich and influential, on the planet of retards.
I bet I have more fun during the day than him.


Carly Fiorina isn't a man:



And "fun", you say? What is "fun"? Totally subjective. Fun is whatever One takes pleasure in doing. But in my world, pleasure is not the standard of morality nor success - although, it can be the goal of it.





But still, where is value in multiplying money and collecting it for yourself? She is nothing but another suit.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Ambition [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5608188 - 05/09/06 10:40 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
But still, where is value in multiplying money and collecting it for yourself? She is nothing but another suit.



It depends on how you make your money. She is head of a corporation that makes computers and computer accessories that make people's lives easier. They provide a service for the money.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Ambition [Re: Silversoul]
    #5608248 - 05/09/06 10:53 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
But still, where is value in multiplying money and collecting it for yourself? She is nothing but another suit.



It depends on how you make your money. She is head of a corporation that makes computers and computer accessories that make people's lives easier. They provide a service for the money.




That's just an illusion. What they sell is both the product and the need for the product.
You need friends, water, food, and some sunshine. The rest is amusement


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Offlinefresh313
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Re: Ambition [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5608362 - 05/09/06 11:34 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

her ambition is to make more $ at the expense of the retail brick and mortar shopping american john q public. so they can release a quarter;y profit report better than was expected so the stock price goes up.

thats cool if thats your trip, go for it. dont portary this lady as some kind of amazing person, any idiot in a position of power can squeeze more dollars out of peoples pockets.


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Ambition [Re: dblaney]
    #5608386 - 05/09/06 11:42 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I will cross the border and ask a honest struggling question:

What are ambitions in comparison to desires ?

If you change the word ambitions with desires in every post here, doesn't it make equal sense ?


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Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Ambition [Re: fresh313]
    #5608397 - 05/09/06 11:45 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

fresh313 said:
her ambition is to make more $ at the expense of the retail brick and mortar shopping american john q public. so they can release a quarter;y profit report better than was expected so the stock price goes up.

thats cool if thats your trip, go for it. dont portary this lady as some kind of amazing person, any idiot in a position of power can squeeze more dollars out of peoples pockets.




I'm not doing that, so don't quote me


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Ambition [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #5608401 - 05/09/06 11:47 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

BlueCoyote said:
I will cross the border and ask a honest struggling question:

What are ambitions in comparison to desires ?

If you change the word ambitions with desires in every post here, doesn't it make equal sense ?




Ambition is a driving force to realise desires. So it's not the same thing.
The strenght of the ambition is a measure of how many obstacles are you ready to beat to fullfill your desire.
Sometimes needs of other people are obstacles too


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Ambition [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5608409 - 05/09/06 11:49 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:

Silversoul said:
Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
But still, where is value in multiplying money and collecting it for yourself? She is nothing but another suit.



It depends on how you make your money.  She is head of a corporation that makes computers and computer accessories that make people's lives easier.  They provide a service for the money.




That's just an illusion. What they sell is both the product and the need for the product.
You need friends, water, food, and some sunshine. The rest is amusement



So you believe that people should have nothing more than what is necessary to keep them alive?  Luxury items are bad? :confused:


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Ambition [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5608437 - 05/09/06 11:58 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Are desires the 'motives' for ambition then, or am I missing the point ? Are desires only a lesser factor for our ambition ? Or should we leave desires out of the game here ?
Can there be ambition without desire ?


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


Edited by BlueCoyote (05/09/06 12:08 PM)


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Offlinefresh313
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Re: Ambition [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5608542 - 05/09/06 12:25 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

"I'm not doing that, so don't quote me"

didnt qoute u dog.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Ambition [Re: fresh313]
    #5608673 - 05/09/06 12:52 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Your reply was to Old Wood rather than Skorpivo. Your comments were directed to Skorpivo.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Ambition [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #5608697 - 05/09/06 01:00 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Ambition1 a : an ardent desire for rank, fame, or power b : desire to achieve a particular end
2 : the object of ambition
3 : a desire for activity or exertion




By definition, there cannot be ambition without desire. Perhaps ambition could also be called "motivated desire."


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Ambition [Re: Veritas]
    #5608728 - 05/09/06 01:09 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

So, you say, it is stronger than desire and is 'driven' by it ?
So, can it be more usefull to relay on the definition of desire ?
Desires are strongly connected to 'hedonism' too, aren't they ?
I can relay on the three-folding of hedonism. Is that true for desire too ? I see there a strong connection to ambition.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


Edited by BlueCoyote (05/09/06 01:22 PM)


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Ambition [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #5608852 - 05/09/06 01:47 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Well, in Epicurean Hedonism, as I recently posted, it is seen as important to distinguish between different types of desires, and to eliminate or reduce those which are "vain."

The underlying ambition of Hedonists would be for happiness. Any other desires which conflict with this happiness would be lesser, and the ambition would then be to eliminating these internal hindrances to happiness.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Ambition [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #5609098 - 05/09/06 02:51 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

BlueCoyote said:
Are desires the 'motives' for ambition then, or am I missing the point ? Are desires only a lesser factor for our ambition ? Or should we leave desires out of the game here ?
Can there be ambition without desire ?




of course, first comes a desire, then an ambition out of it, or not.

We all have desires for which we don't have ambitions..


There can not be ambition without desire, because an activity which is for the good of something other than your desire is not an ambition.

Sure, wanting benefit for someone else is also a form of a desire, but that empathy, that something compleatly different.

Ambition comes from fighting for the good of yourself.
Ambition is when you have a clear goal what you want in your life for yourself, and how to get it.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Ambition [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5609116 - 05/09/06 02:56 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

You are stretching the definition of the term to fit your purposes. What you are talking about is not ambition, but self-interest.

Self-interest, when combined with compassion and personal ethics, is a powerful force for positive change. However, this goes far beyond the meaning of "ambition."

Empathy is the ability to feel what someone else feels, not the desire to benefit them. Ambition and empathy are not only fully compatible, but IMO essential partners.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Ambition [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #5609125 - 05/09/06 02:59 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

BlueCoyote said:
So, you say, it is stronger than desire and is 'driven' by it ?
So, can it be more usefull to relay on the definition of desire ?
Desires are strongly connected to 'hedonism' too, aren't they ?
I can relay on the three-folding of hedonism. Is that true for desire too ? I see there a strong connection to ambition.




Hedonism is living for endulgement of your desires, but everyone has desires, it's just how we deal with them

There is some silly commercial here on TV that goes like this:
A guy is sitting on a couch and watching TV, then a CG green monster comes into his room, he is terrified and runs to the fridge, then takes a chockolate bar and eats it. And then the punch line goes something like:
Beat your monstruous hunger for something sweet, and take..whatever they were advertising

That's pretty much a very silly idea. You beat hunger by eating??
If that means to beat hunger, then what is to lose?

That's pretty much the idea behind hedonism, be the vitor of your desires by being a slave to them.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Ambition [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5609131 - 05/09/06 03:00 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

You might want to do some reading about Hedonism before you attempt to summarize the philosophy. Being a slave to one's desires is anti-Hedonist.


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