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dblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
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Ambition
#5606103 - 05/08/06 06:39 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Ambition: most that I've talked to see it as a great virtue. Yet I'm not sure. It carries with it the hopes and dreams for tomorrow, constantly pushing you to seek that elusive joy that can never truly be found until you stop seeking. Certainly ambition can help motivate you to pursue social achievements and the like (which by the way, are completely transient, as is everything else), but can it bring true, unconditional peace and joy?
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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DoctorJ


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Re: Ambition [Re: dblaney]
#5606105 - 05/08/06 06:40 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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weaken the ambition toughen the bones
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Syle
Kenai Sigh


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Re: Ambition [Re: dblaney]
#5606128 - 05/08/06 06:47 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
dblaney said: but can it bring true, unconditional peace and joy?
Isn't that sort of subjective? If a person chooses to be ambitious and lead a thorough life, all the power to them. The same person can choose to not be ambitious but be self accepting of who they are and lead just as happy of a life.
-------------------- https://kenaisigh.bandcamp.com/ <- Just completed the 2021 RPM challenge for February - An EP in one month (5 songs or 20 minutes). Check it out!
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


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Re: Ambition [Re: dblaney]
#5606133 - 05/08/06 06:48 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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You need ambition to get up in the morning. It comes down to what are your ambitions. Are they yours or someone elses? Are you an addict or can you let go without suffering. There is more to life.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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dblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
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Just to clarify, you're saying that it's alright to have ambitions/goals, just so long as one isn't attached to them. For instance, if one aspires or has it as a goal to become a rich man, and instead fails and ends up a poor, haggard beggar on the street, one should not feel the least bit disappointed or unhappy? One should not suffer at all?
If that's what you're saying, then I think that would be nice, but I question if it's reasonable: if one places so much value on money that they would dedicate a life goal to getting lots of it, then one is probably very attached to money. I don't see how one can be non-attached, yet be ambitious and seek it out, they seem like conflicting view points.
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


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Re: Ambition [Re: dblaney]
#5606179 - 05/08/06 07:00 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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It's a challenge.
Maybe only with age does one begin the job of detachment. When young and energy is high it doesn't make sense to be detached. You feel invulnerable. You lust and want everything. Take a look around at all the happy fulfilled ambitious people. Look hard and long. You can answer this for yourself. Anything can be a trap.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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OldWoodSpecter
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Re: Ambition [Re: DoctorJ]
#5606190 - 05/08/06 07:02 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Ambition is very much valued these days. It is also the source of everything that pains people in life. Why do people steal, lie, kill, fight etc.? They want something, they plan to get it.
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Quote:
the source of everything that pains people in life.
That seems like a broad generalization. Ambition does not cause pain. Ambition encourages us to focus, increases our motivation, keeps us on task when things get difficult, and clarifies our decision-making process when options are in conflict with our goals.
What causes pain is our desperate attachment to negative reactions. Rather than taking a short time to feel, choose a response/action, then moving on from our perceived failures, we decide to indulge in overblown, knee-jerk, emotional reactions. We tell ourselves that our life is ruined, that we are stupid, that we never get anything right. We wallow in our created, prolonged misery.
This is the source of emotional illness.
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SkorpivoMusterion
Livin in theTwilight Zone...


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Re: Ambition [Re: Veritas]
#5606602 - 05/08/06 09:00 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Veritas nails it. 
-------------------- Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.
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Icelander
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Ta-da!
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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SkorpivoMusterion
Livin in theTwilight Zone...


Registered: 01/30/03
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Loc: You can't spell fungus wi...
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My, my, folks. What kind of person would really hate ambition, or see it as a vice rather than a virtue, of all things? It isn't too hard to observe how far mankind has come because of the individuals that have risked it all, all from the fundamental drive of ambition.
And of course, as Syle pointed out, an individual's happiness is subjective in various respects. There are people who simply just don't want to seek ambitious goals of prosperity or wealth. I've known a lady or two that were totally satisfied being housewives; they were living out their dreams - that is all they wanted. Conversely, I've known of other ladies who were total opposites; they were happy in the hustling, bustling, high-interactive corporate environment, with major decisions, long hours but high-payoffs. These ladies would go insane in the housewive's situations, and vice versa.
If anyone thinks ambition is a vice, go tell that to Carly Fiorina, CEO of Hewlett Packard, or Warren Buffet, America's greatest investor of all time, or even Fucknuckle, the P&S's resident kooky-millionaire and retired business owner, or FireworksGod, Retail Management Extraordinaire. None of these people wouldn't be where they are if it weren't for their own ambition, determination and passion for life and all the fruits it offers. Ambition is at the heart of their intellectual freedom; and that is one of the most precious things a human being can ever have.
One who lives for a better future, lives in it today.
-------------------- Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.
Edited by SkorpivoMusterion (05/08/06 10:17 PM)
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


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I'm actually in the midst of reconsidering my long-term career goals... it might just become "store manager or bust". 
Obviously, there is nothing inherently wrong with ambition. The fact that one strives to better themselves is certainly beneficial to oneself and one's environment, as the act proliferates constant change. Someone with ambition will take on more experience, and will thus be more capable of developing a greater understanding of reality, which, in turn, more enables them to navigate reality.
Being ambitious empowers us. Can it bring true, pure, unconditional love and peace? Most indubiantly. How else could one transform their mind and overcome their mental addictions that obstruct such a higher state of mind if they do not strive for it? Mental change does not follow the path of least resistance, my friend. 
 Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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OldWoodSpecter
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Re: Ambition [Re: Veritas]
#5607552 - 05/09/06 03:49 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said:
Quote:
the source of everything that pains people in life.
That seems like a broad generalization. Ambition does not cause pain. Ambition encourages us to focus, increases our motivation, keeps us on task when things get difficult, and clarifies our decision-making process when options are in conflict with our goals.
What causes pain is our desperate attachment to negative reactions. Rather than taking a short time to feel, choose a response/action, then moving on from our perceived failures, we decide to indulge in overblown, knee-jerk, emotional reactions. We tell ourselves that our life is ruined, that we are stupid, that we never get anything right. We wallow in our created, prolonged misery.
This is the source of emotional illness.
so,your idea is, cheat, kill, steal, and then blame them for minding it?
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
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OldWoodSpecter
waiting


Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
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Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
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Quote:
SkorpivoMusterion said: My, my, folks. What kind of person would really hate ambition, or see it as a vice rather than a virtue, of all things? It isn't too hard to observe how far mankind has come because of the individuals that have risked it all, all from the fundamental drive of ambition.
And of course, as Syle pointed out, an individual's happiness is subjective in various respects. There are people who simply just don't want to seek ambitious goals of prosperity or wealth. I've known a lady or two that were totally satisfied being housewives; they were living out their dreams - that is all they wanted. Conversely, I've known of other ladies who were total opposites; they were happy in the hustling, bustling, high-interactive corporate environment, with major decisions, long hours but high-payoffs. These ladies would go insane in the housewive's situations, and vice versa.
If anyone thinks ambition is a vice, go tell that to Carly Fiorina, CEO of Hewlett Packard, or Warren Buffet, America's greatest investor of all time, or even Fucknuckle, the P&S's resident kooky-millionaire and retired business owner, or FireworksGod, Retail Management Extraordinaire. None of these people wouldn't be where they are if it weren't for their own ambition, determination and passion for life and all the fruits it offers. Ambition is at the heart of their intellectual freedom; and that is one of the most precious things a human being can ever have.
One who lives for a better future, lives in it today.
oh,and the CEO of HP is a sucessfull person? He is just rich and influential, on the planet of retards. I bet I have more fun during the day than him.
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
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mr_kite
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Re: Ambition [Re: dblaney]
#5607757 - 05/09/06 07:55 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Ambition makes you look pretty ugly
-------------------- let yourself be silently drawn by the stronger pull of what you really love
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Too many people here are equating ambition with totally material goals. Fireworks has pointed out that there is much more to it and many roads for your ambition to travel. Materialism and ambition are two seperate issues.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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the source of everything that pains people in life.
So any ambition is the source of everything that pains people in life?
I don't think so.
My ambition is to be non-violent and peacefull. What a pain.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy


Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: Ambition [Re: mr_kite]
#5607903 - 05/09/06 09:11 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
mr_kite said: Ambition makes you look pretty ugly
And laziness that turns into slothlike behavior looks like what? 
Ambition is just a driving force which can come from even in-spiration (being in-spirt-action)
Just like we have the knowing of being in good spirits and bad spirits, some ambitious efforts are ugly and some are beautiful.
Just like some lazy people who let themselves and surroundings slide can lead to unsightliness, there are beautiful lazy images of relaxing on a hammock at sunset.
The use of energy or not is not what is beautiful or ugly in itself. Its how use or non use is being applied.
It's subjective too.
I can't even imagine a planet such as filled with 100% unambitious human beings. We would've died out long ago.
Mother Theresa is ambitious. Ghandi was ambitious. Etc. If it wasn't for ambitious people, you wouldn't have this message board to be "saying ambition is ugly" on.
I was telling my husband about this thread and he went into a funny stoner voice and said, "Ambition is like, scary dude." 
Then he said, tell them if it wasn't for ambition, nobody would have invented the water pipe.
To the poster, just keep working on detachment. You can be ambitious and accomplish much while remaining detached. Perhaps its easier for ambitious types to not get so attached and into withholding mode in the first place because they know, they can just keep accomplishing and re-creating anything lost anyway. Its about being in creative energy itself, not what comes of it.
I love the feeling of being at one with the creative force by being in creative energy while inspired by good spirits.
To each his own!
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Quote:
so,your idea is, cheat, kill, steal, and then blame them for minding it?
You are discussing a lack of ethics and compassion, not the hallmarks of ambition. When someone is without conscience, they are sociopathic, not ambitious.
And no, my philosophy does NOT include blaming others for minding unethical actions, or not minding if others are unethical with me.
It DOES include taking responsibility for prolonging the emotional impact of said actions, however. If I choose to hold a grudge, paint myself as a perennial victim, mistrust everyone I come in contact with, relive the events again and again in my mind, then I am responsible for the lasting effect it has on me.
While I do not believe in religious morality, and all the Heaven and Hell judgment contained therein, I do consider how I would prefer to be treated by others, and choose my actions accordingly. I live this way not to "earn" my rewards in Heaven, or escape the wrath of God, but because I am more satisfied with my actions. What others think of my actions is their business. If they dislike the way I treat them, they are free to choose not to associate with me.
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DoctorJ


Registered: 06/30/03
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just wait till you see my point of view
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