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wortiesbo


Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 866
Loc: new vegas
Last seen: 6 years, 9 days
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Atropa Belladonna 1
#5604449 - 05/08/06 10:20 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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does anybody know the average dose for the dried foliage of atropa belladonna?
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jcdangerously
I'll Cut You

Registered: 04/08/06
Posts: 422
Last seen: 17 years, 7 months
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Re: Atropa Belladonna [Re: wortiesbo] 1
#5604503 - 05/08/06 10:40 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Please disregard this post if you are not planning on actually ingesting the drug.
While having little to do with the actual question you've asked, I feel it's necessary to point out that belladonna is a dangerous, highly toxic deleriant. My own experience with it many years ago was awful, and I can't recall ever having read a trip report that cast it in a positive light.
I strongly urge you to read up on what people have said about it here in the forums, as well as on erowid. If you choose to go through with it anyway, you should be able to find dosing information through erowid.
Good luck, and be safe.
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arago
Mr. Wind Up Bird


Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 828
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I agree with JC. If you want a ride to the hospital in the back of an ambulance: that's where it took me. Their assumption was I tried to commit suicide. Not a pleasant sensation.
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Mike_yy


Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 7,253
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Re: Atropa Belladonna [Re: arago] 1
#5604571 - 05/08/06 11:13 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Dont go munching that stuff. Tropane Alkaloids are not something you want to play around with.
Belladonna has been used in the past as a deadly poison, even if you don't die chances are you won't enjoy it.
They call it deadly nightshade for a reason, it takes a very small amout to be lethal.
Keep safe man !!
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Frappy
Strange

Registered: 09/17/04
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Re: Atropa Belladonna [Re: wortiesbo] 1
#5605007 - 05/08/06 01:20 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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the appropriate dose is 0 (Zero)! Don't take any of this awful drug. If you decide to anyway, let us know about your disasterous trip after you're released from the hospital and/or jail. Maybe other will learn from your experience.
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wortiesbo


Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 866
Loc: new vegas
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Re: Atropa Belladonna [Re: Frappy] 1
#5605125 - 05/08/06 02:07 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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i've spent hours researching this delerient and posted this post for dosage tips because erowid has little to nothing other than experiences of people dosing to much and getting hurt by it... if anybody has ever taken this plant and had a positive experience or any experience at all please tell me your dose.
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Ego Death
Justadropofwaterinanendlesssea


Registered: 04/27/03
Posts: 10,447
Loc: The War Machine
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Re: Atropa Belladonna [Re: wortiesbo] 1
#5605739 - 05/08/06 04:58 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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tumbleweed
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Schwip
Never sleeps.


Registered: 06/27/05
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Re: Atropa Belladonna [Re: wortiesbo] 1
#5605925 - 05/08/06 05:52 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
wortiesbo said: i've spent hours researching this delerient and posted this post for dosage tips because erowid has little to nothing other than experiences of people dosing to much and getting hurt by it... if anybody has ever taken this plant and had a positive experience or any experience at all please tell me your dose.
there is a very good reason that you cant find any positive experience reports.........
please dont mess with this plant. whats so appealing about a deleriant?
very low doses will get you very very dry mouth....a little woozy.
then higher doses will get delirous.
there is NO middle on that road.
-------------------- -------------------------------- " If the sky were to suddenly open up there would be no law. There would be no rule. There would only be you and your memories... the choices you've made, and the people you've touched. If this world were to end there would only be you and him and no-one else. " .............. "MAN! You know there aint no such thing as left over crack!"
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whythewho
outdoor mushroomfarmer


Registered: 12/19/05
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Re: Atropa Belladonna [Re: Schwip] 1
#5606782 - 05/08/06 09:59 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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i have no experience with this solanaceous plant. but i have had posotive experiences with datura, more than one species. i find that with powerful alkaloids like this, they tend to be uncomfortable most of the time, and thus, the dosage, if you must, is very very minute. i found that smoking a datura flower alone was a nice, albeit slightly uncomfortable (dry mouth!)also, smoking a small amount of leaf with cannabis was an enjoyable experience. i would not suggest ingesting the plant, as dosages are very hard to regulate, smoking however, the effects kick in about 5 minutes, and it becomes quite uncomfortable if you smoke too much, the insights of this ally are shrouded by larger doses, as memory is haltered. however, this was all just datura, and from what i know, nightshade is much more dangerous and more potent. dont let your curiosity get the best of you, tropane alkaloids are a start insanely low, work your way up, kindof plant, in my experience. although, overall, tropanes are too uncomfortable for continued experimentation.
-------------------- Spiral out.... keep going... spiral out!
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Vertigo6911
Entheobotanist



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Re: Atropa Belladonna [Re: whythewho] 1
#5607180 - 05/09/06 12:19 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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this is NOT an ally you fucking dolt!
its a wild fucking animal that WILL devour you if you continue to disrespect it.
-------------------- -Know ye not that ye are gods?- My homepage
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Darkenshroom
PsychedelicExplorationist


Registered: 02/24/06
Posts: 683
Loc: I don't exist on this pla...
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Re: Atropa Belladonna [Re: Vertigo6911] 1
#5607352 - 05/09/06 01:53 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Belladonna was used historically in some pagan rites, and though I have copies of many a book with information on its preparation and usage, which I might add was a very tiny amount not even fully consumed but placed under the tongue, as well as behind the earlobes on the wrists, and tops of your feet and in some sects on the eyelids to allow you to see the realm of death, I have yet to have a desire to see Lady Bellas world. She is an ally, in an "enemy of my enemy" kind of way. You see she is the enemy of closed mindedness as she is delirium incarnate, as we also oppose closed mindedness she is our ally, but one we must never cleave to for she is as likely to deem our thoughts too sane and rip them asunder as she is to enlighten us.
Darken *smiles*
-------------------- ~The first and most important step in cultivation of the wonderful mushroom, is the cultivation of patience for without it you doom yourself to failure~
Edited by Darkenshroom (05/09/06 02:01 AM)
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Re: Atropa Belladonna [Re: whythewho] 1
#5607922 - 05/09/06 09:16 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
the dosage is very very minute (..) smoking a datura flower
It is your understanding of what you're dealing with that's very, very minute.
A "datura flower" is a truckload of tropanes, which depends on the kind of datura, the time of picking and the wet and dry weight of the flower, to name some variables.
Hyoscyamine, atropine, scopolamine, atroscine, apohyoscyamine, apoatropine, aposcopolamine, apoatroscine, meteloidine, optical isomers, racemization, ester hydrolysis, transestrification, hydration of the epoxyde, parasympatholytic, acetylcholine, vagus nerve.. Have we done our homework?
I bet you have endangered yourself beyond your knowledge, considering you speak of "halting of memory".
Can it be done? Yes, but not safely, and its best not done by someone who considers an entire flower a very, very minute dose.
I'm sorry to suck, but people die this way.
To the threadstarter: your individual dose would depend on your body, sex, age, weight and a lot of variables within the plant, as well of how much meditative effort you are willing to invest, how high a risk you are willing to take and what you want to get out of it.
To say something ballpark, which by no means is positive dosage advice: At one gram of Atropa belladonna (3-8mg hyoscyamine if dried properly) it is not uncommon for people to DIE, go psychotic and end up institutionalized for years or sustain brain damage, so your dosage would have to be a whole lot lower than one single gram.
People who recommend doses in the order of spoonfulls should be kicked offline, and by that I mean they should be physically kicked when they are offline. Spoons kill.
Belladonna can only be used in an indirect manner, where a truly minute dose is taken and powerful meditation enhances the effects multifold. THAT is how the witches did it, it was the inquisition who took to poisoning people.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
Edited by Asante (05/09/06 09:30 AM)
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Re: Atropa Belladonna [Re: Asante] 1
#5607989 - 05/09/06 09:39 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Here's belladonna as seen in my garden 




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pod3
Stranger

Registered: 12/22/04
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- [Re: Asante] 1
#5608006 - 05/09/06 09:44 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Edited by pod3 (10/26/06 10:55 AM)
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Darkenshroom
PsychedelicExplorationist


Registered: 02/24/06
Posts: 683
Loc: I don't exist on this pla...
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Re: Atropa Belladonna [Re: pod3] 1
#5608314 - 05/09/06 11:21 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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As I stated in my post, a miniscule amount under the tongue described in Wiccan texts as the size of a pea or a large pinhead. It was not swallowed but allowed to absorb through the skin, similar sized dobs of paste made from the plant were placed in the aforementioned areas, and as Wiccan_Seeker said meditation was used to delve into the world of Lady Bella.
She is an ally but one you must be oh so very wary of. One day when I am ready she and I shall meet, but I would never ever take it on someone's word that I should eat a full flower or a teaspoons worth. That's plain idiocy.
Darken *smiles*
-------------------- ~The first and most important step in cultivation of the wonderful mushroom, is the cultivation of patience for without it you doom yourself to failure~
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Vertigo6911
Entheobotanist



Registered: 12/04/04
Posts: 1,834
Loc: Netherlands
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with 'allies' like that you dont need an enimy.
and how fucking dumb do you have to be to keep with this piheadedly, knowing what it can and will do to you, wile there are so many alternatives.
shit enuff alcohol can get you deliriums if you try hard enuff, and even that is safer then this shit here.
or what about the NA sweatlodge?
there are safer ways of almost killing yourself dude.
is an1 else reminded of that movie flatliners?
btw nice plants wiccan
-------------------- -Know ye not that ye are gods?- My homepage
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pod3
Stranger

Registered: 12/22/04
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Edited by pod3 (10/26/06 10:00 AM)
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mr_minds_eye
Disposable Wage Whore

Registered: 01/22/02
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Re: Atropa Belladonna [Re: Schwip] 1
#5617751 - 05/11/06 03:38 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Schwip said:
Quote:
wortiesbo said: i've spent hours researching this delerient and posted this post for dosage tips because erowid has little to nothing other than experiences of people dosing to much and getting hurt by it... if anybody has ever taken this plant and had a positive experience or any experience at all please tell me your dose.
there is a very good reason that you cant find any positive experience reports.........
please dont mess with this plant. whats so appealing about a deleriant?
very low doses will get you very very dry mouth....a little woozy.
then higher doses will get delirous.
there is NO middle on that road.
I have used Datura inoxia and henbane and never had a full on delerium. What I did was aquired enough material at the same time which was around the same potency, started really really small and worked my way up SLOWLY. I never had an experience which I would label "psychedelic" but it was worthwhile. I'm not rying to encourage anyone to go through with experimenting with these plants. I am just saying that if I were him, I'd almost experiment with it in spite of the prevailing attitudes here. I am not at all saying that it is safe. At the time, risking death for an otherworldly experience had a certain appeal to me. I honestly was afraid of going all the way for good reason. The two most memorable experiences that I had with it were as follows: I Datura and alcohol; I woke up one morning after having negligable effects from the combo. I was lying on the downstairs couch. I reached over to grab the remote but the floor didn't feel quite right. This suprised me enough to ACTUALLY open my eyes. Then I saw that I was in fact, up stairs in my room. I realized what was up and then enjoyed playing with my amazing visualization abilities. The second was MG seeds and Datura. With datura the only way that I have been able to tell that it is coming on, is this very distinctive dry taste/feeling in my mouth/throat. Anyways I took enough for that effect and then dosed the mg seeds on top of it probably 350-400 washed store "bought" heavenly blues. It resulted in visuals almost comperable to a 3,000 microgram LSD experience that I had once. The only thing is this stuff makes you feel dumb as a box-of-rocks. So it wasn't at all mind expanding in my opinion. Anyways there is no "safe" dosage guidlines. However the most "responsible" way to do it is to have a consistant batch. This doesn't mean the same plant, as alkaloid concentration will vary. Even seed pod to seed pod the content can vary. Anyways never ever redose beacuse that could very well be the last thing you ever do. You might not be able to tell that its kicked in, how far along it is, or if you are already far enough along, how much more you are actually taking. Also keep in mind that there is a German fellow who is documented as having cut his dick off while under the influnce of tropaines. I'm not at all saying that you should experiment with this stuff. I just wanted to give you a little different response than "you're a fucking idiot for thinking about it. Please don't kill yourself -peace
-------------------- Our quest for discovery fuels our creativity in all fields, not just science. If we reached the end of the line, the human spirit would shrivel and die. But I don't think we will ever stand still: we shall increase in complexity, if not in depth, and shall always be the center on an expanding horizon of possibilities. -Stephen Hawking
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pod3
Stranger

Registered: 12/22/04
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Edited by pod3 (10/26/06 10:00 AM)
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ShroomDoom
Friend of the Medicine


Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 4,435
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Re: Atropa Belladonna [Re: pod3] 1
#5622818 - 05/12/06 09:00 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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i just finished watching "high hitler" on the history channel. apparently every morning he took an anti-flatulant for his gas that consisted of strichnine and 50mg of nightshade. eventually it ended up becoming toxic and worsening his already failing health. so even in small doses nightshade cant be good for you. i dont even see how it would get rid of gas
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mr_minds_eye
Disposable Wage Whore

Registered: 01/22/02
Posts: 1,948
Loc: Samsara
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Re: Atropa Belladonna [Re: ShroomDoom]
#5624074 - 05/13/06 10:20 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
ShroomDoom said: i just finished watching "high hitler" on the history channel. apparently every morning he took an anti-flatulant for his gas that consisted of strichnine and 50mg of nightshade. eventually it ended up becoming toxic and worsening his already failing health. so even in small doses nightshade cant be good for you. i dont even see how it would get rid of gas
It has a very pronounced effect on your gastric system. You get these really deep burps from it. I can't really explain it. Anyways as far as the dumb-as-a-box of rocks thing goes. I just meant that with most things considered "psychedelic" it does something to highten your mental perception. In this case your brain is just blank. Don't misunderstand me though, I'm not saying that it has no value to those wanting to experience the other, for those wanting to go beyond what we normally would call reality. I'm just saying when it came down to it, I just decided that I would rather experiment with something a little safer is all. I'm not saying that I would never do it again. If I did though it would probably be more along the lines of accenting something else. The visualization abilities that it gives you are absolutely 100% fucking incredible. I can see how that could go a long way. You just have to look at potential risk factors here. The point of me posting on this thread was to counterbalance all the "fuck that shit" responses. I just don't want to have anything to do with some one killing themselves or ending up in the hospital with mutilated genetalia because something I said on some stupid fucking message board made them feel too comfortable and curious about a potentialy, very very dangerous psychactive poison. That's all.
-------------------- Our quest for discovery fuels our creativity in all fields, not just science. If we reached the end of the line, the human spirit would shrivel and die. But I don't think we will ever stand still: we shall increase in complexity, if not in depth, and shall always be the center on an expanding horizon of possibilities. -Stephen Hawking
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Herbus
...

Registered: 10/19/04
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Loc: Reading the map...
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Re: Atropa Belladonna [Re: ShroomDoom]
#5624110 - 05/13/06 10:29 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
ShroomDoom said: that consisted of strichnine and 50mg of nightshade.
Hmmm. And what pharmacologist would concoct such a medication, what doctor would prescribe it?
Haven't humans been away of the toxic features of strychnine for quite some time? Surely they've been aware of the properties of Strychnos nux-vomica for a while.
And Germans aren't idiots when it comes to chemistry.
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pod3
Stranger

Registered: 12/22/04
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Edited by pod3 (10/26/06 09:59 AM)
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Quote:
The pharmacologically, immaculately clean experimenter could PATIENTLY learn how to evaluate the potency of plants through skin absorbtion - next to a sink of cold water and harsh soap.
I wouldn't recommend that, no. Skin absorption should only be undertaken by people who know the potency of their herb (which they ofcourse homogenize) and the responses it invokes in them.
--cold water closes the pores, trapping the tropanes within, to be absorbed later. --harsh soap etches the skin a bit and makes it more permeable to alkaloids, while you are turning the alkaloids into freebase and palmitates which are preferred forms for efficient absorption.
If you want to denature tropanes on your skin you can either wash the skin with vinegar or lemonjuice. This removes them better than water would. In case of emergency use 3% hydrogen peroxide or a tablespoon of liquid chlorine bleach in a glass of water.
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It has a very pronounced effect on your gastric system. You get these really deep burps from it.
Its parasympatholytic effects cause relaxation of the bowels and sphincters. This causes burps and farts to pass less audibly. A tight anal sphincter is typical in highly stressed-out people, which you would be if you got daily meth and were Adolf Hitler 
Quote:
Anyways as far as the dumb-as-a-box of rocks thing goes. I just meant that with most things considered "psychedelic" it does something to highten your mental perception. In this case your brain is just blank.
A very apt description. Tropane Herbs make you thick as a brick because they inhibit Acetylcholine. Acetylcholine is a brainfood and arguably a "smart drug" (enhancing cognition), so if you take that away (simply put) you're shedding cognitive abilities such as memory. With extreme doses you get a near complete amnesia. With abuse your cholinergic system gets damaged and (basically put) you become dumbed down and psychologically distorted for life.
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The visualization abilities that it gives you are absolutely 100% fucking incredible.
Ah, someone's been touched by Atropia. As have I.
Quote:
The point of me posting on this thread was to counterbalance all the "fuck that shit" responses. I just don't want to have anything to do with some one killing themselves or ending up in the hospital with mutilated genetalia because something I said on some stupid fucking message board made them feel too comfortable and curious about a potentialy, very very dangerous psychactive poison.
Word! Its certainly not shit but it is SO DANGEROUS that many knowledgable people on this site *refuse* to give information thats readily abused as dosage/usage advice. That ought to tell you something people!
As for shedding seed, I'm looking into the ethics of sharing Belladonna seeds froim this year's plants. I dont know if it is ethical. If a kid gets in your garden, the plant sees to it that he'll stuff himself with toxic berries. They are just too tasty-looking. Even though I'm highly scientific my encounters with the plant have me wondering a wee wee bit in the back of my mind whether the plant will see to it that a kid *will* get into your garden.
If any plant has supernatural powers its the Witching Herbs, but these powers are VERY sinister. It lures people to it; it's a Venus Flytrap and you are the fly.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Re: Atropa Belladonna [Re: Herbus]
#5624237 - 05/13/06 11:10 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
[strychnine+belladonna] Hmmm. And what pharmacologist would concoct such a medication, what doctor would prescribe it?
Oh thats not at all peculiar. In the right dose they are useful medications. If I had strychnine I'd definitely end up ingesting it in exact doses under controlled circumstances. This already is the case with me & the Witching Herbs.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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whatever123
Whatever I did, I'm sorry


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Re: Atropa Belladonna [Re: Asante]
#5624512 - 05/13/06 12:35 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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What medical benfit does strychnine provide?
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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I would be using strychnine recreationally 
When you take little enough strychnine you get closer to the convulsive treshold without crossing it. What results is a curious kind of stimulant effect which makes you react faster and intenser to physical and mental stimuli. Its not like the usual stimulants and in safe doses its reasonably subtle. But i can find use for it 
People fixate too much on the "poison" label. Right now Arsenic (trioxide) is used as a medication against particular forms of cancer, as is made use of Botulism toxins and colchicine
Alles ist Gift, nichts ist ohne Gift. Nur die Dose macht ob es giftig wirkt. Everything is poison, and nothing is without poison. Only the dose determines if it works as a poison.
-- Paracelsus
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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pod3
Stranger

Registered: 12/22/04
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Edited by pod3 (10/26/06 09:58 AM)
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