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OldWoodSpecter
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kingdom of heaven
#5601672 - 05/07/06 04:42 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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How do you see your kingdom of heaven? Well all seem to have our own ideas of what the world should be like, how should people act or not act etc.
So what's your idea? How would people live, where, what should they do all day, what should they not do etc.? And do you think your idea is realisitic in terms of would it work?
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


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Look to the Bonobos! 
Throw in some good drugs.
Drumming circles and such.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
Edited by Icelander (05/07/06 05:15 PM)
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dblaney
Human Being

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The Kingdom of Heaven is actually on Mars, we just don't have the technology to get there yet. 
But verily, the Kingdom of Heaven is right here, right now.
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


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Quote:
OldWoodSpecter said: How do you see your kingdom of heaven?
My what?
Quote:
So what's your idea? How would people live, where, what should they do all day, what should they not do etc.? And do you think your idea is realisitic in terms of would it work?
It is as it is now. That is how it should be, and it is very realistic in terms of how it would work, because it already does work. 
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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You naturalist! Just because something is the way it is, doesn't mean that it is the way it is supposed to be! Can't you get with the program of disputing the nature of reality??
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jcdangerously
I'll Cut You

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Calvin: Hobbes, what do you think happens to us when we die? Hobbes: I think we play saxophone for an all-girl cabaret in New Orleans. Calvin: So you believe in heaven? Hobbes: Call it what you like.
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OldWoodSpecter
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Quote:
fireworks_god said:
Quote:
OldWoodSpecter said: How do you see your kingdom of heaven?
My what?
Quote:
So what's your idea? How would people live, where, what should they do all day, what should they not do etc.? And do you think your idea is realisitic in terms of would it work?
It is as it is now. That is how it should be, and it is very realistic in terms of how it would work, because it already does work. 
 Peace.
Wow, I've never heard anyone being OK with current happenings such as crime, politics, wars, hunger etc.
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
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Deviate
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Quote:
fireworks_god said:
Quote:
OldWoodSpecter said: How do you see your kingdom of heaven?
My what?
Quote:
So what's your idea? How would people live, where, what should they do all day, what should they not do etc.? And do you think your idea is realisitic in terms of would it work?
It is as it is now. That is how it should be, and it is very realistic in terms of how it would work, because it already does work. 
 Peace.
so you support the criminalization of drugs? you dont feel any beneficial changes could be made?
Edited by Deviate (05/07/06 05:34 PM)
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dblaney
Human Being

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Re: kingdom of heaven [Re: Deviate]
#5601931 - 05/07/06 05:49 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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The way I see it, crime, politics, wars, hunger, drug criminlization: they're all by-products of ignorance. Almost every human on the planet walks around with an enormous metaphorical splinter in their eye. But that includes us. The best way to remove ignorance is by removing the splinters, but how can one know how to remove splinters unless one has removed their own?
Remove the splinter from your own eye, then you will see clearly how to help others remove theirs. If it means becoming a political activist, alright. If it means becoming a protestor, alright. If it means putting yourself in danger of corruption by becoming a politician, alright. If it means sitting at home doing absolutely nothing about it, providing no resistence for ignorance in order that it may burn itself out, alright.
But there is nothing inherently "wrong" about ignorance. It may not be what one would like to have, but it is not wrong of itself. It is simply the way God is manifesting, so to say ignorance is wrong is to say that God is wrong.
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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Deviate
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Re: kingdom of heaven [Re: dblaney]
#5601938 - 05/07/06 05:52 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
dblaney said: The way I see it, crime, politics, wars, hunger, drug criminlization: they're all by-products of ignorance. Almost every human on the planet walks around with an enormous metaphorical splinter in their eye. But that includes us. The best way to remove ignorance is by removing the splinters, but how can one know how to remove splinters unless one has removed their own?
Remove the splinter from your own eye, then you will see clearly how to help others remove theirs. If it means becoming a political activist, alright. If it means becoming a protestor, alright. If it means putting yourself in danger of corruption by becoming a politician, alright. If it means sitting at home doing absolutely nothing about it, providing no resistence for ignorance in order that it may burn itself out, alright.
But there is nothing inherently "wrong" about ignorance. It may not be what one would like to have, but it is not wrong of itself. It is simply the way God is manifesting, so to say ignorance is wrong is to say that God is wrong.
when did i say anything was wrong?
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dblaney
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Re: kingdom of heaven [Re: Deviate]
#5601964 - 05/07/06 05:58 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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You're right, you didn't. I'm sorry, I guess I intended that message more towards Old Wood.
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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OldWoodSpecter
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Re: kingdom of heaven [Re: dblaney]
#5601994 - 05/07/06 06:05 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
dblaney said: You're right, you didn't. I'm sorry, I guess I intended that message more towards Old Wood.
Well this is not the issue of what should and what should not be in general, this thread is about your wishes and your ideas of what should be..
There is always a lot of complaining around here, and we hear what should NOT be all the time, so I wanted to hear from all of you what you think SHOULD be then..
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
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dblaney
Human Being

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Oh okay, I gotcha: so you mean like in human society, what the ideal situation would be? Not what is, but what we think ought to be?
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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OldWoodSpecter
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Re: kingdom of heaven [Re: dblaney]
#5602006 - 05/07/06 06:09 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
dblaney said: Oh okay, I gotcha: so you mean like in human society, what the ideal situation would be? Not what is, but what we think ought to be?
yea
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
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Basilides
Servent ofWisdom


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The Kingdom of God is here, there, and everywhere. Most folks can't see it though
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    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


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Re: kingdom of heaven [Re: Icelander]
#5602058 - 05/07/06 06:27 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: Look to the Bonobos! 
Throw in some good drugs.
Drumming circles and such.
Burning Man.
Great ideas Ice.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
Edited by Icelander (05/07/06 06:44 PM)
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dblaney
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Hehe, funny you should ask this, because this is a debate that my philosophy instructor and I have been having for some time.
Is vs. Ought
The word ought means what I think things should be like, according to my own personal likes and dislikes. However, likes and desires are the very cause of suffering and unhappiness. So it is wise, IMO to not chase after things in the vain hope of acheving them. Let's say you want money. So you spend years getting an education, doing low level work, then finally you get a good job. You get a good amount of money, but you still aren't satisfied, now you realize that even more money would be nicer. Or perhaps your money gets stolen. Or perhaps the stock market crashes. Either way, there will be suffering of some degree.
So I think that while one can fantasize about the way things ought to be, it will ultimately cause suffering if things don't turn out that way, or if they do but they are just temporary (and all things are).
Thus I think that one should focus on what is and disregard what they think ought to be. For things are rarely as we would like them to be (as we think they ought to be), and even those few times that they are as we would like them to be, something always happens and they are once again not as we would like them to be.
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: Is vs. Ought [Re: dblaney]
#5602078 - 05/07/06 06:34 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
However, likes and desires are the very cause of suffering and unhappiness.
*Stubborn emotional attachment/addiction to one's likes and desires.
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dblaney
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Re: kingdom of heaven [Re: Icelander]
#5602082 - 05/07/06 06:35 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
Icelander said: Look to the Bonobos! 
Throw in some good drugs.
Drumming circles and such.
Great ideas Ice.

I agree, great ideas, especially if one can do them fully in the Present.
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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dblaney
Human Being

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Re: kingdom of heaven [Re: Veritas]
#5602089 - 05/07/06 06:36 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Yes! That's an important clarification, thanks.
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


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Posts: 95,368
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Re: kingdom of heaven [Re: dblaney]
#5602122 - 05/07/06 06:48 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Thank you. Some acknowledgement is always nice. I never get it at home as Veritas is always one step ahead of me. 
I forgot to add Burning Man.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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dblaney
Human Being

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Re: kingdom of heaven [Re: Icelander]
#5602142 - 05/07/06 06:55 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Man I really want to go to Burning Man. The entire experience sounds beautiful. Hopefully someday I'll save up enough to go.
Veritas is a clever one!
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


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Re: kingdom of heaven [Re: dblaney]
#5602158 - 05/07/06 07:00 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I guess I'll have to get rid of her or I'll never get any glory.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: kingdom of heaven [Re: Icelander]
#5602164 - 05/07/06 07:01 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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"It must have been cold there in my shadow..."
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Icelander
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Re: kingdom of heaven [Re: Veritas]
#5602181 - 05/07/06 07:06 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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dblaney
Human Being

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Re: kingdom of heaven [Re: Icelander]
#5602321 - 05/07/06 07:39 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Agh, who cares about glory when you've got love?
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


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Re: kingdom of heaven [Re: dblaney]
#5602369 - 05/07/06 07:54 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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There is more to life then love as I have recently learned. But I was joking so I agree.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


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Re: kingdom of heaven [Re: Deviate]
#5602390 - 05/07/06 08:01 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
OldWoodSpecter said: Wow, I've never heard anyone being OK with current happenings such as crime, politics, wars, hunger etc.
Quote:
Deviate said: so you support the criminalization of drugs? you dont feel any beneficial changes could be made?
I stated that it is as it should be, as it is the way it is right here, right now, as an inevitable result of all that has brought it forth.
Cause and effect designates what "should" be.
I never addressed what I would prefer, or what change I or others would influence, which is what these questions quoted pertain to.
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Deviate
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if you read further you'll see the poster was asking what you would you prefer, he meant how things "should be" in order to best please you or conform to your idea of an ideal society, not how they should be in reguards to cause and effect. i thought that much was obvious.
Edited by Deviate (05/07/06 08:39 PM)
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DoctorJ


Registered: 06/30/03
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a little house
a little woman
a little garden
a little peace and quiet
is that so much to ask?
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Octavius
Stranger
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Re: kingdom of heaven [Re: DoctorJ]
#5604129 - 05/08/06 07:12 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Communication must change.
We must all appreciate eachother and what each one of us has to offer.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


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Re: kingdom of heaven [Re: Deviate]
#5604173 - 05/08/06 07:57 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Deviate said: if you read further you'll see the poster was asking what you would you prefer, he meant how things "should be" in order to best please you or conform to your idea of an ideal society, not how they should be in reguards to cause and effect. i thought that much was obvious.
Well no doubt. I expressed that society should be as it is (as it should be because of cause and effect) in order to best fit with my conceptions of how a society should be. My ideal society would be one that is in regards to cause and effect. I guess it should have been obvious that my answer to his question was my answer to his question? 
The point being that, any preferences that I would hold as to what change would result will naturally be produced by interaction within that society as it is now. I stated that it is as it should be. Realizing this is the first step towards change.
The fact that I did not answer the question as you would have preferred does not mean that I did not understand the question. Perhaps you'll have to include that society should be something wherein everyone answers as you would like them to?
I mean, honestly, sometimes one will feel like making additional, related points. Not to mention the fact that conforming a wildly dynamic, interrelated system such as a society to one individual's preferences will be detrimental to that society, which exists as the summation of everyone's preferences and their pursuits of them.
 Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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