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OfflineFGL
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has somebody have success with pasteurizing grains or with fractional sterilization ?
    #5598096 - 05/06/06 04:11 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

if so, how much time and what temp? :rolleyes:


Edited by FGL (05/12/06 04:23 PM)


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Offlineskeletor
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Re: has somebody have success pasteurizing grains? [Re: FGL]
    #5598911 - 05/06/06 08:47 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

pasturizing grains is useless. you need to sterilize them. this isn't just semantics either. you need those buggers devoid of life before you can use them as a substrate.


--------------------
im sorry about your mother. She was a terrible attrative woman.

Get back to nature; hunting burgers and gathering fries.


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InvisibleFooMan
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Re: has somebody have success pasteurizing grains? [Re: FGL]
    #5598926 - 05/06/06 08:50 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

If you're asking because you don't have a PC, then check out the link below. It's a PITA, but it does work.

http://www.shroomery.org/index.php/par/23372


--------------------

Quick WBS Prep


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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: has somebody have success pasteurizing grains? [Re: FooMan]
    #5599269 - 05/06/06 10:40 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

pita?


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OfflineShroomsnotWar
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Re: has somebody have success pasteurizing grains? [Re: mushboy]
    #5599271 - 05/06/06 10:41 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

pain in the ass


--------------------
"Last time I checked, I was paying your salary" - me, to a cop, Feb 2000 ... yes I was arrested


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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: has somebody have success pasteurizing grains? [Re: ShroomsnotWar]
    #5599275 - 05/06/06 10:42 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

:dancing:
:dancing:
:dancing:
:dancing:
:dancing:
:dancing:
:dancing:
:dancing:
:dancing:


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OfflineFGL
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Re: has somebody have success pasteurizing grains? [Re: mushboy]
    #5600274 - 05/07/06 07:00 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Thanks everybody, but I have a pc BTW, I was just asking after reading this post:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/5595140/an/0/page/0


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Invisibleohmatic
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Re: has somebody have success pasteurizing grains? [Re: FGL]
    #5600377 - 05/07/06 08:32 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

FGL said:
Thanks everybody, but I have a pc BTW, I was just asking after reading this post:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/5595140/an/0/page/0




mico is actually using a modified drum with a seal on lid that does create some pressure inside,
if you reasearched a bit more you would have even come across a picture of it :


--------------------
:penis: MONOTUB tek :sun: HEATBOMB tek :penis:

RIP #cultivation! ....can't associate? well FUCK U !


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OfflineFGL
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Re: has somebody have success pasteurizing grains? [Re: ohmatic]
    #5600419 - 05/07/06 08:52 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)





mico is actually using a modified drum with a seal on lid that does create some pressure inside,
if you reasearched a bit more you would have even come across a picture of it :





Yes ohmatic, I have read the post where that picture appears http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/5540921/an/0/page/1 and micolo2 says there "There is no gasket seal. So pressure stay low, very low. When pressure is starting to built, it goes out naturally between the cover and the drum. The valve is only for security. If you open the valve while boiling there is a pressure who blow steam out for about 18 inches for 2 or 3 seconds;You don't really have to use it. You could built one without valve. I've never seen pressure built up in the drum "


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InvisibleTippinthru
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Re: has somebody have success pasteurizing grains? [Re: FGL]
    #5600841 - 05/07/06 12:00 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Pasteurizing grains, will not work.

But, you could try "Frac'ing".

From the FAQ.

"fractional sterilization" or tyndallization

Fractional sterilization or tyndallization is a method used to destroy bacteria and endospores in preparation of grain spawn(rye, wheat, millet, birdseed...).

In this case, the jars fitted with a filter disc, tyvek filter or a polyfill lid filter are boiled or steamed at 212°F (100°C) for 30 min in a pot with lid, three days in a row.

Between the boiling steps the jars are kept warm, around 30°C(but room temperature will work too), to allow the remaining endospores to germinate.

The basic principle behind this method is that any resistant endospores will germinate after the first heating and therefore be susceptible to killing during the second and third heating.

Timetable of the tyndallization (fractional sterilization) process

1) Steam heating to 100 °C for 30 min
Vegetative cells are destroyed but endospores survive

2) Incubate at 30°C-37°C overnight
Most bacterial endospores germinate

3) Second heat treatment, 100 °C, 30 min
Germinated endospores are killed.

4) Second incubation at 30°C-37 °C overnight
Remaining endospores germinate

5) Third heat treatment, 100 °C, 60 min
Last remaining germinated endospores are killed.


--------------------
Perfection is attained by slow degrees; it requires the hand of time...
[


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OfflineFGL
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Re: has somebody have success pasteurizing grains? [Re: Tippinthru]
    #5600857 - 05/07/06 12:10 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

thanks Tippinthru  :thumbup:

and the same question, has sombody have success with tyndallization? :grin:


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Offlineskeletor
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Re: has somebody have success pasteurizing grains? [Re: FGL]
    #5601072 - 05/07/06 01:37 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

yes but again its a huge pain in the ass. if you have a pc why would you bother?


--------------------
im sorry about your mother. She was a terrible attrative woman.

Get back to nature; hunting burgers and gathering fries.


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OfflineFGL
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Re: has somebody have success pasteurizing grains? [Re: skeletor]
    #5601159 - 05/07/06 02:08 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

skeletor said:
yes but again its a huge pain in the ass.  if you have a pc why would you bother?




because with a 55g drum you could do 100 jars (1liter), and while they are incubating you could do another 100 jars, and so on... :wink:


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OfflineFGL
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Re: has somebody have success pasteurizing grains? [Re: FGL]
    #5601170 - 05/07/06 02:11 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

would be ok to do the fractional sterilization four times 2 hours any time to be sure???


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: has somebody have success pasteurizing grains? [Re: FGL]
    #5601841 - 05/07/06 05:25 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

You need 40 jars to do 100 wet pounds of poo..thats enough to do quite a bit of growing, and you could do that in 2 runs (or one) with some PC's..might cost you 200 bucks, but so what?


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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InvisibleFungusMan
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Re: has somebody have success pasteurizing grains? [Re: scatmanrav]
    #5601950 - 05/07/06 05:54 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I did many runs using fractural sterilization. I would soak and rinse the WBS as usual, then I would boil the jars 1 hour a day, for three days and innoc. I would also shake between boilings. Never had one contam. The only thing you have to watch for is moisture control. Add a little verm to help keep your jars from drying out. Never had any real problems doing it that way.


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OfflineFGL
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Re: has somebody have success pasteurizing grains? [Re: scatmanrav]
    #5602222 - 05/07/06 07:14 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

scatmanrav said:
You need 40 jars to do 100 wet pounds of poo..thats enough to do quite a bit of growing, and you could do that in 2 runs (or one) with some PC's..might cost you 200 bucks, but so what?




I know it scatmanrav, but I'd just like to know what others have learned about fractional sterilization because I think is a very interesting field to do some research, and havent found much info on the subject in the forums... :confused:


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OfflineFGL
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Re: has somebody have success pasteurizing grains? [Re: FungusMan]
    #5602243 - 05/07/06 07:20 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

FungusMan said:
I did many runs using fractural sterilization. I would soak and rinse the WBS as usual, then I would boil the jars 1 hour a day, for three days and innoc. I would also shake between boilings. Never had one contam. The only thing you have to watch for is moisture control. Add a little verm to help keep your jars from drying out. Never had any real problems doing it that way.




That is what I want to hear FungusMan  :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

do you think would be any problem if I do 4 runs instead of 3 and I want to do it in a 55g drum so I think it will take more time for getting the right temp in the whole substrate so maybe doing 3 to 4 hours runs would be better... or not? :rolleyes:

any opinion would be greatly appreciated  :grin: :mushroom2: :mushroom2: :mushroom2:


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Offlineskeletor
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Re: has somebody have success pasteurizing grains? [Re: FGL]
    #5602678 - 05/07/06 09:06 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

how do you plan to take 55g out and inject it and keep in sterile?


--------------------
im sorry about your mother. She was a terrible attrative woman.

Get back to nature; hunting burgers and gathering fries.


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InvisibleFungusMan
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Re: has somebody have success pasteurizing grains? [Re: FGL]
    #5602736 - 05/07/06 09:17 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

FGL said:
Quote:

FungusMan said:
I did many runs using fractional sterilization. I would soak and rinse the WBS as usual, then I would boil the jars 1 hour a day, for three days and innoc. I would also shake between boilings. Never had one contam. The only thing you have to watch for is moisture control. Add a little verm to help keep your jars from drying out. Never had any real problems doing it that way.




That is what I want to hear FungusMan  :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

do you think would be any problem if I do 4 runs instead of 3 and I want to do it in a 55g drum so I think it will take more time for getting the right temp in the whole substrate so maybe doing 3 to 4 hours runs would be better... or not? :rolleyes:

any opinion would be greatly appreciated  :grin: :mushroom2: :mushroom2: :mushroom2:




As long as you can keep the water boiling, 1 hour runs should be fine. The longer the runs, the more chance of grains splitting and turning to mush.Also let me add that, when boiling my jars, the jars were only HALF submersed. So, I really don't know how to apply this to drums, unless you stacked the jars in the barrel, and steamed them, in which I would do 4 runs of 1.5 hours, shaking each before each steam session.


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OfflineFGL
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Re: has somebody have success pasteurizing grains? [Re: skeletor]
    #5604163 - 05/08/06 07:46 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

skeletor said:
how do you plan to take 55g out and inject it and keep in sterile?




something similar to this:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat...rue#Post4355760


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OfflineFGL
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Re: has somebody have success pasteurizing grains? [Re: FungusMan]
    #5604169 - 05/08/06 07:48 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

FungusMan said:
Quote:

FGL said:
Quote:

FungusMan said:
I did many runs using fractional sterilization. I would soak and rinse the WBS as usual, then I would boil the jars 1 hour a day, for three days and innoc. I would also shake between boilings. Never had one contam. The only thing you have to watch for is moisture control. Add a little verm to help keep your jars from drying out. Never had any real problems doing it that way.




That is what I want to hear FungusMan  :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

do you think would be any problem if I do 4 runs instead of 3 and I want to do it in a 55g drum so I think it will take more time for getting the right temp in the whole substrate so maybe doing 3 to 4 hours runs would be better... or not? :rolleyes:

any opinion would be greatly appreciated  :grin: :mushroom2: :mushroom2: :mushroom2:




As long as you can keep the water boiling, 1 hour runs should be fine. The longer the runs, the more chance of grains splitting and turning to mush.Also let me add that, when boiling my jars, the jars were only HALF submersed. So, I really don't know how to apply this to drums, unless you stacked the jars in the barrel, and steamed them, in which I would do 4 runs of 1.5 hours, shaking each before each steam session.




I'll take your advice!!! :thumbup:
Many thanks for your help! :mushroom2: :mushroom2: :mushroom2: :mushroom2: :mushroom2:


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InvisibleFooMan
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Re: has somebody have success pasteurizing grains? [Re: FGL]
    #5608152 - 05/09/06 10:27 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

FGL said:
thanks Tippinthru  :thumbup:

and the same question, has sombody have success with tyndallization? :grin:




Wow, I post the link for you almost right away and she gets the thanks :rolleyes: :smirk:


--------------------

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OfflineFGL
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Re: has somebody have success pasteurizing grains? [Re: FooMan]
    #5609523 - 05/09/06 05:03 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

FooManShroom said:
Quote:

FGL said:
thanks Tippinthru  :thumbup:

and the same question, has sombody have success with tyndallization? :grin:




Wow, I post the link for you almost right away and she gets the thanks :rolleyes: :smirk:




:sorry: FooManShroom, and many thanks for all the times you have helped me :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

and  :mushroom2: :mushroom2: :mushroom2: :mushroom2: :mushroom2: for your simmering no soakinng tek  :grin:


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OfflineFGL
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Re: has somebody have success pasteurizing grains? [Re: FungusMan]
    #5621797 - 05/12/06 04:21 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

FungusMan said:
Quote:

FGL said:
Quote:

FungusMan said:
I did many runs using fractional sterilization. I would soak and rinse the WBS as usual, then I would boil the jars 1 hour a day, for three days and innoc. I would also shake between boilings. Never had one contam. The only thing you have to watch for is moisture control. Add a little verm to help keep your jars from drying out. Never had any real problems doing it that way.




That is what I want to hear FungusMan  :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

do you think would be any problem if I do 4 runs instead of 3 and I want to do it in a 55g drum so I think it will take more time for getting the right temp in the whole substrate so maybe doing 3 to 4 hours runs would be better... or not? :rolleyes:

any opinion would be greatly appreciated  :grin: :mushroom2: :mushroom2: :mushroom2:




As long as you can keep the water boiling, 1 hour runs should be fine. The longer the runs, the more chance of grains splitting and turning to mush.Also let me add that, when boiling my jars, the jars were only HALF submersed. So, I really don't know how to apply this to drums, unless you stacked the jars in the barrel, and steamed them, in which I would do 4 runs of 1.5 hours, shaking each before each steam session.




would you add tape ( to prevent moisture entering the bags) to the filter if using filter patch bags instead of jars???


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InvisiblePsychoslut
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Re: has somebody have success with pasteurizing grains or with fractional sterilization ? [Re: FGL]
    #5621898 - 05/12/06 05:11 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Page 153 GGMM third edition

In devoloping countries, the sterilizer is ofter a makeshift, vertical drum heated by fire or gas. A heavy lid is placed on top to keep the contents contained. The boiling of water generates steam, which over many hours will sufficiently "sterilize" the substrate.


Who knows how long many hours is? Im guessing at least 5 :shrug:


--------------------



[quote]KristiMidocean said:
Good now thats clear.WHO FUCKING CARES. If I am fat u all keep pointing it out like its suppose to be a secret.LIke u really have nothing better to do then make fat jokes. If o know its like I do I know yall can come up with NEW AND BETTER SHIT . This shit is old and boring . I left in the first place cause this shit got boring not because of the fat jokes . Fat jokes dont bother me but seriously its old[/quote]


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Invisiblemonstermitch
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Re: has somebody have success with pasteurizing grains or with fractional sterilization ? [Re: Psychoslut]
    #5621910 - 05/12/06 05:15 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

No.

Do not tape up the filters on a filter patch bag.

No need to be blowing up fp bags and what not.


--------------------



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InvisiblePsychoslut
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Re: has somebody have success with pasteurizing grains or with fractional sterilization ? [Re: monstermitch]
    #5621959 - 05/12/06 05:31 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Taping over the patches on a fp bag would defeat the purpose. Who said that?


--------------------



[quote]KristiMidocean said:
Good now thats clear.WHO FUCKING CARES. If I am fat u all keep pointing it out like its suppose to be a secret.LIke u really have nothing better to do then make fat jokes. If o know its like I do I know yall can come up with NEW AND BETTER SHIT . This shit is old and boring . I left in the first place cause this shit got boring not because of the fat jokes . Fat jokes dont bother me but seriously its old[/quote]


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Invisiblemonstermitch
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Re: has somebody have success with pasteurizing grains or with fractional sterilization ? [Re: Psychoslut]
    #5621963 - 05/12/06 05:32 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

FGL

sorry Psychoslut, I mess up all the time by doing quick reply's to the last post.
I was talking to FGL.

looking to blow up bags... geeeesh.


--------------------



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OfflineFGL
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Re: has somebody have success with pasteurizing grains or with fractional sterilization ? [Re: Psychoslut]
    #5621986 - 05/12/06 05:40 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Psychoslut said:
Page 153 GGMM third edition

In devoloping countries, the sterilizer is ofter a makeshift, vertical drum heated by fire or gas. A heavy lid is placed on top to keep the contents contained. The boiling of water generates steam, which over many hours will sufficiently "sterilize" the substrate.


Who knows how long many hours is? Im guessing at least 5 :shrug:




here micolo2 have done it in 3 hours  :shocked:, but 5 hours should be safer... http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/5595140/page/0/fpart/1/vc/1

do you think  you kill the endospores without pressure in just one 5 hours run???


Edited by FGL (05/12/06 05:41 PM)


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OfflineFGL
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Re: has somebody have success with pasteurizing grains or with fractional sterilization ? [Re: monstermitch]
    #5622009 - 05/12/06 05:46 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

monstermitch said:
No. 

Do not tape up the filters on a filter patch bag.

No need to be blowing up fp bags and what not.




got it :thumbup:


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InvisiblePsychoslut
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Re: has somebody have success with pasteurizing grains or with fractional sterilization ? [Re: FGL]
    #5622032 - 05/12/06 05:55 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

FGL said:
Quote:

Psychoslut said:
Page 153 GGMM third edition

In devoloping countries, the sterilizer is ofter a makeshift, vertical drum heated by fire or gas. A heavy lid is placed on top to keep the contents contained. The boiling of water generates steam, which over many hours will sufficiently "sterilize" the substrate.


Who knows how long many hours is? Im guessing at least 5 :shrug:




here micolo2 have done it in 3 hours  :shocked:, but 5 hours should be safer... http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/5595140/page/0/fpart/1/vc/1

do you think  you kill the endospores without pressure in just one 5 hours run???




Im not exactly sure. I wish good ole Paul would of specified how many "many hours" is. Try 4 or five hours of steam and see what happens.

I imagine it has to be hot dense steam though. Make sure to put something heavy on the lid to hold in as much pressure as possible. Make it so the steam has to force itself through the tiny cracks between the pot and the lid.


--------------------



[quote]KristiMidocean said:
Good now thats clear.WHO FUCKING CARES. If I am fat u all keep pointing it out like its suppose to be a secret.LIke u really have nothing better to do then make fat jokes. If o know its like I do I know yall can come up with NEW AND BETTER SHIT . This shit is old and boring . I left in the first place cause this shit got boring not because of the fat jokes . Fat jokes dont bother me but seriously its old[/quote]


Edited by Psychoslut (05/12/06 05:57 PM)


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OfflineFGL
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Re: has somebody have success with pasteurizing grains or with fractional sterilization ? [Re: Psychoslut]
    #5622104 - 05/12/06 06:14 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Psychoslut said:
Quote:

FGL said:
Quote:

Psychoslut said:
Page 153 GGMM third edition

In devoloping countries, the sterilizer is ofter a makeshift, vertical drum heated by fire or gas. A heavy lid is placed on top to keep the contents contained. The boiling of water generates steam, which over many hours will sufficiently "sterilize" the substrate.


Who knows how long many hours is? Im guessing at least 5 :shrug:




here micolo2 have done it in 3 hours  :shocked:, but 5 hours should be safer... http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/5595140/page/0/fpart/1/vc/1

do you think  you kill the endospores without pressure in just one 5 hours run???






I imagine it has to be hot dense steam though. Make sure to put something heavy on the lid to hold in as much pressure as possible. Make it so the steam has to force itself through the tiny cracks between the pot and the lid. 




do you think it is safe? :rolleyes:


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InvisiblePsychoslut
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Re: has somebody have success with pasteurizing grains or with fractional sterilization ? [Re: FGL]
    #5622232 - 05/12/06 06:46 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

yes it will be safe. you aint going to make the lid seal tight enough to blow up the pot. just put a brick or rock on the lid to hold in a little extra steam and give it a go.


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[quote]KristiMidocean said:
Good now thats clear.WHO FUCKING CARES. If I am fat u all keep pointing it out like its suppose to be a secret.LIke u really have nothing better to do then make fat jokes. If o know its like I do I know yall can come up with NEW AND BETTER SHIT . This shit is old and boring . I left in the first place cause this shit got boring not because of the fat jokes . Fat jokes dont bother me but seriously its old[/quote]


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OfflineFGL
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Registered: 06/25/05
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Re: has somebody have success with pasteurizing grains or with fractional sterilization ? [Re: Psychoslut]
    #5622314 - 05/12/06 07:06 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Psychoslut said:
yes it will be safe. you aint going to make the lid seal tight enough to blow up the pot. just put a brick or rock on the lid to hold in a little extra steam and give it a go.




I'll post my results :cool: :thumbup:


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: has somebody have success with pasteurizing grains or with fractional sterilization ? [Re: FGL]
    #5624469 - 05/13/06 12:19 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:


for popcorn ...
Soak in warm water for 24 hrs
drain and rinse
bring to a boil then reduce to simmer until popcorn can be squished between fingers
drain and rinse with cold water
allow to drain for 4 hrs
load 1/2 quart jars with standard poly-filter and single inoculation hole
cover with aluminum foil
Load jars into perforated container and then into larger pot
fill pot up to half way up the side of the jars and cover, then bring to a boil and boil away or 90 minutes. Then unload jars and allow to cool
also i dont remove the foil until the minutes before im going to innoc, i also innoc through an alcohol soaked cotton ball.




from no-pc popcorn





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Mycotopia


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InvisibleBrainiac
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Re: has somebody have success with pasteurizing grains or with fractional sterilization ? [Re: Hippie3]
    #5626548 - 05/13/06 09:53 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Timetable of the tyndallization with some H202 process

Take out some of the water as it will be replace by the h2o2
1) Steam heating to 100 °C for 30 min
Vegetative cells are destroyed but endospores survive

2) Incubate at 30°C-37°C overnight
Most bacterial endospores germinate

3) Second heat treatment, 100 °C, 30 min
Germinated endospores are killed.

4) Second incubation at 30°C-37 °C overnight
Remaining endospores germinate

5) Third heat treatment, 100 °C, 60 min
Last remaining germinated endospores are killed.

When cool over night Inject  :syringe: the same amont of  h2o2 that you had taken out for H20

6 forth heat treatment ,100 c 60 min
Than the h2o2 sould be distrod
then you cont with inculation.
  :confused:Will this work ? :confused:


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:Awesketch:

:cool: Fair is Fair :devil:


Edited by Brainiac (05/13/06 09:55 PM)


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OfflineFGL
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Re: has somebody have success with pasteurizing grains or with fractional sterilization ? [Re: Brainiac]
    #5819726 - 07/04/06 12:06 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Brainiac said:
Timetable of the tyndallization with some H202 process

Take out some of the water as it will be replace by the h2o2
1) Steam heating to 100 °C for 30 min
Vegetative cells are destroyed but endospores survive

2) Incubate at 30°C-37°C overnight
Most bacterial endospores germinate

3) Second heat treatment, 100 °C, 30 min
Germinated endospores are killed.

4) Second incubation at 30°C-37 °C overnight
Remaining endospores germinate

5) Third heat treatment, 100 °C, 60 min
Last remaining germinated endospores are killed.

When cool over night Inject  :syringe: the same amont of  h2o2 that you had taken out for H20

6 forth heat treatment ,100 c 60 min
Than the h2o2 sould be distrod
then you cont with inculation.
  :confused:Will this work ? :confused:




and what about adding the H2O2 in the water used to soak the grains? :rolleyes:


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