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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
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Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
Re: Creationism dismissed as 'a kind of paganism' by Vatican's astronomer [Re: Silversoul]
    #5594748 - 05/05/06 03:57 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
Quote:

DoctorJ said:
maybe they started reading all those books they have locked away in their library. 

the next step would be to release those books to the public :wink:



"This just in:  The vatican has been hiding UFOs since the 16th century."




That's how angels travel, in flying chariots of fire


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I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Invisibleshroomydan
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Registered: 07/04/04
Posts: 4,126
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Re: Creationism dismissed as 'a kind of paganism' by Vatican's astronomer [Re: Diploid]
    #5595358 - 05/05/06 07:10 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

"I was glad then that he [John Paul] did not know the subject of the talk I had just given at the conference — the possibility that space-time was finite but had no boundary, which means that it had no beginning, no moment of Creation."





I think it is entirely possible to have a created universe with no beginning or end in space and time. If time is considered as a forth dimension of space, then the creator would only need to operate in five dimensions to create a universe infinite in four. An omnipotent God could conceivably operate in an infinite number of dimensions, so creation of a universe infinite in space and time would be no problem for him. the universe infinite in space and time would still be finite in the larger sense because it would be limited to four dimensions. A line infinite in length is still finite in width; a plane infinite in area is still finite in depth. One must merely think outside space/time to see how creation of a universe with no 'begining' is possible.

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Creationism dismissed as 'a kind of paganism' by Vatican's astronomer [Re: shroomydan]
    #5595436 - 05/05/06 07:34 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

That makes no sense. By that reasoning, I could create a 2-dimentional universe because I'm 3-dimentional.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Creationism dismissed as 'a kind of paganism' by Vatican's astronomer [Re: Diploid]
    #5595455 - 05/05/06 07:39 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I think of creation not as something that happened at a single point in time, but rather as a constant process. Creation is the universe continuously emanating from God.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Creationism dismissed as 'a kind of paganism' by Vatican's astronomer [Re: Silversoul]
    #5595476 - 05/05/06 07:42 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Creation is the universe continuously emanating from Tao.

I agree! :grin:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineDoctorJ
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Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
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Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
Re: Creationism dismissed as 'a kind of paganism' by Vatican's astronomer [Re: Diploid]
    #5595485 - 05/05/06 07:44 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
That makes no sense. By that reasoning, I could create a 2-dimentional universe because I'm 3-dimentional.




ummmm... haven't you ever drawn a picture?

there's your 2dimensional universe

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Invisibleshroomydan
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Registered: 07/04/04
Posts: 4,126
Loc: In the woods
Re: Creationism dismissed as 'a kind of paganism' by Vatican's astronomer [Re: Diploid]
    #5595561 - 05/05/06 08:11 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
That makes no sense. By that reasoning, I could create a 2-dimensional universe because I'm 3-dimensional.




If you were infinitely powerful in three dimensions, you could create an infinite two dimensional universe. Makes perfect sense.

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Offlinekotik
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Re: Creationism dismissed as 'a kind of paganism' by Vatican's astronomer [Re: shroomydan]
    #5595633 - 05/05/06 08:36 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

*if you developed your skill  :smile:


--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.

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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
Livin in theTwilight Zone...
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Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 9,954
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Re: Creationism dismissed as 'a kind of paganism' by Vatican's astronomer [Re: shroomydan]
    #5595801 - 05/05/06 09:20 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

My views:

Existence was never created; it cannot be created, for anything that would create it, must therefore exist. Creation is not getting something from nothing; creation is the act of rearranging elements that already exist, and this is a Universal law that applies for all conscious, sentient beings. Creation, like time or size, is within existence; existence is not within time, nor creation, nor size; all these are attributes and qualities within existence. Hence, existence is fundamentally creation-less, time-less, size-less. There is no “god” that caused existence, if by god one refers to a consciousness posed to be antecedent to reality, which only another contradiction for there can be no consciousness without existence; there can be no end without which there are no means to support it. Existence does not need a cause; causality presupposes existence, existence does not presuppose causality. Existence denotes the totality of all that exists, i.e., everything. But everything cannot be the effect of something else, because you cannot have something else in addition to everything. Hence, there can be no infinite regress of causes which is a contradiction. All existents within existence is not ruled by consciousness nor chance; but by the Law of Identity; which is a corollary of existence. Existence is all there is, and only existence exists; there is no where else to go.

As for other kinds of infinity: The universe [defined as everything that exists] cannot be spatially infinite, because in order for something to exist, it must be something specific, which means that it must have a specific size and shape, and therefore be limited in the extent of its dimensions. By the same token, the number of existents, however you define "existent," also cannot be infinite, because whatever the number is, it must be some specific number, however large.

Nor can the universe be temporally infinite, because time depends on motion, and motion involves a relationship between at least two objects. Therefore, since motion cannot apply to the universe as a whole, because nothing exists outside the universe, time does not apply to the universe as a whole. Therefore, the universe does not have a temporal duration, and cannot therefore be infinite in time. One could say that the universe is "eternal," if by "eternal," one simply means timeless or outside of time, which is the original meaning of the term.



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Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.

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