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mrlinus41
Stranger
Registered: 05/05/06
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American Drinking Age
#5594929 - 05/05/06 05:13 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Help lower it, www.18todrink.com, and write your congressman. All of europe has a lower drinking age, its a stupid law. Thanks
-------------------- www.18todrink.com change a stupid law
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DieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: mrlinus41]
#5594954 - 05/05/06 05:18 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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No thanks Ill pass.
What I would like to see is the driving age raised to 18.
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: DieCommie]
#5594959 - 05/05/06 05:19 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said: No thanks Ill pass.
What I would like to see is the driving age raised to 18.
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DieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: mrlinus41]
#5594991 - 05/05/06 05:25 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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More people die from car accidents every year then handguns, yet you have to be 21 to buy a handgun and only 16 to drive
About the alcohol, the reason the age was raised to 21 was the feds forced it to try to save lives on the road. And it did. Since the drinking age has been raised to 21 tens of thousands of people are living now that would have been dead. People under 21 still can and do drink with little chance of getting a ticket, they just have to do it at home not the bar.
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: DieCommie]
#5595038 - 05/05/06 05:42 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Also note that Europe has much better public transportation, so drunk driving isn't as big an issue over there.
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kotik
fuckingsuperhero
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: DieCommie]
#5595043 - 05/05/06 05:43 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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poster < 21 ?
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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mrlinus41
Stranger
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: kotik]
#5595104 - 05/05/06 06:00 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Yes, I'm less then 21. If we outlawed McDonalds and all junk food, that would also save lives. In fact, I think any doctor will tell you that it is safe to say that without junk food we would be a much healthier nation, and millions of people would not have crippling heart disease. However, we are not a country where the government makes decisions for us. I am over the age of 18, and I can buy a home, fight for my country, be eligible for the draft if it was called for, start a family, have kids (and raise this country's future leaders), and a multitude of other things. I find it un-American for the government to tell me whether I can or can not drink. I am surprised at the response to this post on this forum, I would have expect people on such an "open-minded" type of forum to be much more understanding. I guess I was wrong.
-------------------- www.18todrink.com change a stupid law
Edited by mrlinus41 (05/05/06 06:02 PM)
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DieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: mrlinus41]
#5595127 - 05/05/06 06:06 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Maybe because this is an "open-minded" forum you should expect diverse answers that dont agree with your beliefs.
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kotik
fuckingsuperhero
Registered: 06/29/04
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: mrlinus41]
#5595136 - 05/05/06 06:07 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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heh, save the arguments. I was IN the military complaining about the same thing when I was under 21, AND dealing with the prospect of a baby (which ended up not being mine).
in all honesty though, i did most of my drinking before i turned 21, didnt even drink on my 21st birthday, and still dont have as much desire to now, as I did when I was younger.
something about seeing the same people at the bars over and over again just kills all the magic.
PLEASE believe me when I say I'm open minded, but giving a teenager all these freedoms at once is not a good option in my opinion. Perhaps if there was more emphasis on the dangers of addiction and etc, it wouldnt be so much of a problem... but considering how our society looks at alcohol (as recreation) and then mix that with the common mischief of a high-school senior... well its unfortunate that one bad apple ruins the bunch... but I can't think of a reason to put more alcohol into the hands of those just beginning to enter society.
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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mrlinus41
Stranger
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: mrlinus41]
#5595138 - 05/05/06 06:08 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Touche, but taht wasn't a counter argument to what I said. edit: That was my response to die commie, i was writing it before i saw the second post.
-------------------- www.18todrink.com change a stupid law
Edited by mrlinus41 (05/05/06 06:10 PM)
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EquilibriuM
dream stalker
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: mrlinus41]
#5595156 - 05/05/06 06:13 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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I'm about 1000000000000 times more interested in making power plants legal for those over 21...
-------------------- HELP!!!!!!!!!
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: EquilibriuM]
#5595547 - 05/05/06 08:05 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Only if you serve in the military......
They took the privilage away right before I enlisted.....
you mean I can throw grenades and fire my M-16....but not have a beer?
Why can you vote when your eighteen?
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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bukkake
Registered: 05/28/05
Posts: 2,764
Loc: Classified
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: SirTripAlot]
#5595929 - 05/05/06 09:49 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
you mean I can throw grenades and fire my M-16....but not have a beer?
Why can you vote when your eighteen?
Soccer moms.
I'm under the drinking age, but I still manage to successfully have my alcohol daily if I like. It's a silly law, but it lets the evangelists sleep tighter at night.
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: bukkake]
#5596024 - 05/05/06 10:17 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Check your local laws......
When I grew up in Michigan, it was legal for an 18 year old to brew his own beer........
I loved that law.......
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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z@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: DieCommie]
#5596603 - 05/06/06 12:40 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said: No thanks Ill pass.
What I would like to see is the driving age raised to 18.
I just want to see the voting age raised to 25.
-------------------- "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson
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AaronEvil
The GuitarVillain
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: mrlinus41]
#5596648 - 05/06/06 12:58 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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I agree that the Government should have no say over what I put into my body once I hit the age of 18. As a "legal adult" I should have every right to fuck up my body as long as no one else is hurt in the process. The problem is that not only to we strive for freedom, but also humanity. Its bullshit, but it saves lives so the chances of it getting reversed is unrealistic. I have no problem with the Government saving lives, but it shouldnt be inconsistent about it. If they outlaw drinking at a young age, they should outlaw driving, eating unhealthy, contact sports, ect. at young ages. But they dont. Because of that, I say either change it, or change every inconsistancy to keep it.
-------------------- There is not a lot of difference between a fox hole and a grave; but knowing that you dug your ditch and climbed in anyway.
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gregorio
Too Damn Old
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: mrlinus41]
#5596887 - 05/06/06 03:08 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Raising the driving age to 18 sounds like a great idea to me.
Lowering the drinking age to 18 sounds good to me as well. At 18 you can vote. You can join the military. You bcan legaly enter into contracts. Yes, by all means, lower the drinking age to 18.
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Konnrade
↑↑↓↓<--><-->BA
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: gregorio]
#5596990 - 05/06/06 05:31 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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I can get drunk, vote for Gary Coleman,, and then sign a contract binding me to 5 years as a meat-shield in the marines.
-------------------- I find your lack of faith disturbing
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fresh313
journeyman
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: Konnrade]
#5597016 - 05/06/06 06:09 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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raise the driving age to 18 then u have a bunch of terrible 18 year old drivers raise the driving age to 21 then u have a bunch of terrible 21 years old drivers ....
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daksya
Along a FunFugue
Registered: 09/24/05
Posts: 3
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: fresh313]
#5597027 - 05/06/06 06:20 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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The lowered minimum drinking age hasn't actually reduced the proportion of under-21s who start drinking.
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kotik
fuckingsuperhero
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: daksya]
#5597096 - 05/06/06 07:26 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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who could expect anything other than that?
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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mrlinus41
Stranger
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: kotik]
#5597609 - 05/06/06 12:04 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Just because there is a correlation between when the drinking age was raised and a drop in fatal crashes does not necessarily mean one casued the other. This is one of tha major points of any basic statistics course. One must keep in mind that during the same time period, cars were made much safer, and the BAC was lowered to .08, as well as the fact that different generations act differently. It is foolish to say that the lower drinking age necessarily saves lives. In my town, the fact that it is illegal to drink does not stop many at all, in fact it might even fuel some who try to be cool by breaking the law.
-------------------- www.18todrink.com change a stupid law
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: fresh313]
#5597634 - 05/06/06 12:20 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
fresh313 said: raise the driving age to 18 then u have a bunch of terrible 18 year old drivers raise the driving age to 21 then u have a bunch of terrible 21 years old drivers ....
It's not as simple as that. If I thought it was just a matter of experience, then I'd want the driving age to be as low as possible. But it's not just experience. It's a matter of recklessness. Teenagers think they're immortal, so they drive recklessly for kicks or to impress their friends. An 18 or 21-year-old is more likely to have outgrown that phase, and will likely be a more cautious driver.
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BlueRidge
fungus amongus
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: Silversoul]
#5597684 - 05/06/06 12:50 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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any of you live in rural areas?? i do and it simply WOULD NOT work to raise the driving age to 18. around here, 16-17year olds need that freedom that a drivers liscense gives them. teens need to drive to get to and from school, to and from work, to begin to participate in this society. its a gradual process and should be. reckless teenagers who die or kill someone else is simply not a viable argument for rasing the driving age to 18.
oh yeah,
i am under 21 and personally i am fine with the drinking age.
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kotik
fuckingsuperhero
Registered: 06/29/04
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: BlueRidge]
#5597794 - 05/06/06 02:00 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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all things said here, i think drinking ages should be decided upon by local governments, not federal. because as has been brought up, rural areas require younger kids to drive for work and etc.
but as for recreational driving, or driving in a situation where public transportation or carpooling is just as convenient.. it's a different issue.
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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fresh313
journeyman
Registered: 09/01/03
Posts: 2,537
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: BlueRidge]
#5597862 - 05/06/06 02:31 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
BlueRidge said: any of you live in rural areas?? i do and it simply WOULD NOT work to raise the driving age to 18. around here, 16-17year olds need that freedom that a drivers liscense gives them. teens need to drive to get to and from school, to and from work, to begin to participate in this society. its a gradual process and should be. reckless teenagers who die or kill someone else is simply not a viable argument for rasing the driving age to 18.
oh yeah,
i am under 21 and personally i am fine with the drinking age.
yah they need the freedom, plus u can work when your 14 legally, but u cant even drive to work??? it sucks.
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mrlinus41
Stranger
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: fresh313]
#5598242 - 05/06/06 05:11 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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in the words of stan's dad "Oh, I'm sorry, I thought this was America"... if you are over the age of 18 and an adult you decide whether or not you drink. Drinking does can not directly harm anyone other then the consumer, it can only indirectly harm the consumer by its effects on that person's decisions. Using that logic, the government should also ban books on terrorism, and other anti government books, because they can affect peoples' decisions and indirectly harm others. What about books on communism. Communist literature indirectly led to the Russian Revolution, which arguably cripple one of the largest nations in the world. Does that mean the Czarist government would have been right if they effectively and completely censored all of the communist literature and information seeping into Russia? No they would not.
-------------------- www.18todrink.com change a stupid law
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Konnrade
↑↑↓↓<--><-->BA
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: mrlinus41]
#5598267 - 05/06/06 05:20 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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The way I work in this area has always been pretty consistent:
I know right from wrong. I am intelligent, I am capable of making informed decisions. I know what my rights currently are, and what my rights should be.
If, with all of those resources, I decide to do something, I will do it whether it is legal or not. I don't give two shits whether what I do is legal if I know it isn't wrong to do it.
Now, if I were to do something illegal that I knew was wrong, I would not complain if I was punished for it. But if I was punished for something I knew was not wrong, then I would do everything in my power to raise hell.
-------------------- I find your lack of faith disturbing
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Ekstaza
stranger than most
Registered: 04/10/03
Posts: 4,324
Loc: Around the corner
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: Konnrade]
#5598568 - 05/06/06 06:55 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Konnrade said: If, with all of those resources, I decide to do something, I will do it whether it is legal or not. I don't give two shits whether what I do is legal if I know it isn't wrong to do it.
That's the way it should be, however, there are individuals who have extreme views about what is right and wrong. What should the guy do, who sincerely feels that it is right for him to have sex with underage girls? Or the serial killer who feels no remorse for slaughtering a family of four?
Everything is subjective.
-------------------- YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH ANY GIVEN DRUG ISN'T THE DEFINITIVE MEASURE OF THE DRUGS EFFECTS.
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David_vs_Goliath
Informer
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: Ekstaza]
#5599541 - 05/07/06 12:03 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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The problem is, there are too many ignorant 18-20 year olds who are clueless about anything and don't really care about much other than their own existance. Trust me, I am in that age group and this pretty much identifies 98% of the people I know. Because of this I think drinking and driving would be a huge issue and everything would go down hill. I am all for the 21 year old drinking age even though I am prohibited at the moment.
PS. Even if I drink I am more scared of the consequences of gettin caught driving that I would never think to have a sip of alcohol an get behind the wheel. This is why I think the age should be 21.
-------------------- "People living deeply have no fear of death." "Love the animals, love the plants, love everything. If you love everything, you will perceive the divine mystery in things. Once you perceive it, you will begin to comprehend it better every day. And you will come at last to love the whole world with an all-embracing love." "Our problems are man-made, therefore they may be solved by man. No problem of human destiny is beyond human beings."
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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It would be interesting to see drunk driving statistics from countries where alcohol is available to younger people (Germany, Switzerland, etc..) and then compare that to America's drunk driving statistics.
I have a feeling that the legality of booze at younger ages makes it not as much of a "forbidden fruit" and there are less alcohol problems with teens and young adults.
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kotik
fuckingsuperhero
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: RandalFlagg]
#5600275 - 05/07/06 07:00 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Drinking does can not directly harm anyone other then the consumer, it can only indirectly harm the consumer by its effects on that person's decisions. Using that logic, the government should also ban books on terrorism, and other anti government books, because they can affect peoples' decisions and indirectly harm others. What about books on communism. Communist literature indirectly led to the Russian Revolution, which arguably cripple one of the largest nations in the world. Does that mean the Czarist government would have been right if they effectively and completely censored all of the communist literature and information seeping into Russia? No they would not.
no, thats not using the same logic. You are comparing mental / physical (drinking) to intellectual. (reading)
any dumbass with a hole in his face can put alcohol into his body, and within 5-20 minutes, he will physically be showing side effects, loss of motor skills, delayed reaction time, slurring of words, blurry vision. etc. etc.
If you could point me to a book on Communism that will affect that same dumbass within 20 minutes of reading, to the point of not being able to control his own actions physically... well sir, I believe we may have a cure for illiteracy on our hands.
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: kotik]
#5600387 - 05/07/06 08:36 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Huh? I think you replied to the wrong person.
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kotik
fuckingsuperhero
Registered: 06/29/04
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: RandalFlagg]
#5600546 - 05/07/06 09:59 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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thats because i always use the quick-reply, and i never select the "reply to:" part. i just leave it on "-Last Post-"
because im lazy.
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: kotik]
#5600573 - 05/07/06 10:09 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Drinking age for males 49 Drinking age for females 18
After all, girls mature faster than boys.
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mrlinus41
Stranger
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: kotik]
#5600656 - 05/07/06 10:36 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Yes, it is the same situation. The government is playing "dad" and making a decision that they believe is "best for us". Not getting any sleep will also make you a terrible driver, make you exteremely irritable and violent, really hurt your health, and make it exteremly unpleasant for the people around you. Should the government require you to get 8 hours of sleep, or maybe because that would be too difficult to enforce, they could impose a curfew?
-------------------- www.18todrink.com change a stupid law
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kotik
fuckingsuperhero
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: mrlinus41]
#5600673 - 05/07/06 10:43 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Not getting any sleep will also make you a terrible driver, make you exteremely irritable and violent, really hurt your health, and make it exteremly unpleasant for the people around you. Should the government require you to get 8 hours of sleep, or maybe because that would be too difficult to enforce, they could impose a curfew?
actually, there is a law against driving while sleepy. In New Jersey it's called "Maggie's Law" and it's called other things in different states. In Texas you can get a DUI for driving while "drowsy" and you can be expected to perform the same roadside tests as anyone else.
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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mrlinus41
Stranger
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: kotik]
#5600782 - 05/07/06 11:25 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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But it is not illegal for someone under the age of 21 to deprive themselves of sleep, while it is illegal for them to drink. Your point is irrelevant.
-------------------- www.18todrink.com change a stupid law
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David_vs_Goliath
Informer
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: mrlinus41]
#5600799 - 05/07/06 11:33 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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mrlinus is alcohol that big of a deal to you??
-------------------- "People living deeply have no fear of death." "Love the animals, love the plants, love everything. If you love everything, you will perceive the divine mystery in things. Once you perceive it, you will begin to comprehend it better every day. And you will come at last to love the whole world with an all-embracing love." "Our problems are man-made, therefore they may be solved by man. No problem of human destiny is beyond human beings."
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mrlinus41
Stranger
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Not at all, its more the principal of the matter.
-------------------- www.18todrink.com change a stupid law
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kotik
fuckingsuperhero
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: mrlinus41]
#5600852 - 05/07/06 12:07 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
But it is not illegal for someone under the age of 21 to deprive themselves of sleep, while it is illegal for them to drink. Your point is irrelevant.
you have the right to deprive yourself of sleep, as much as you have the right to deprive yourself of alcohol. We are "open-minded" here, perhaps that's what's causing so many issues for you.
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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mrlinus41
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: kotik]
#5600887 - 05/07/06 12:29 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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that doesn't make sense
-------------------- www.18todrink.com change a stupid law
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Silversoul
Rhizome
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: RandalFlagg]
#5600913 - 05/07/06 12:40 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
RandalFlagg said: It would be interesting to see drunk driving statistics from countries where alcohol is available to younger people (Germany, Switzerland, etc..) and then compare that to America's drunk driving statistics.
I have a feeling that the legality of booze at younger ages makes it not as much of a "forbidden fruit" and there are less alcohol problems with teens and young adults.
Well, as I said before, most European countries have much better public transportation, so I'm not so sure drunk driving statistics would be the best measure of responsible drinking. In Germany or Switzerland, there are probably a lot more people who take the bus or the light rail, or what have you.
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mrlinus41
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: mrlinus41]
#5600949 - 05/07/06 01:02 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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that's not even really my main point, the points im making is in kotik's profile "those who sacrifice liberty for safety deserve neither." - Benjamin Franklin
-------------------- www.18todrink.com change a stupid law
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zappaisgod
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: mrlinus41]
#5601044 - 05/07/06 01:27 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Which is an inaccurate fabrication:
* Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. o This statement was used as a motto on the title page of An Historical Review of the Constitution and Government of Pennsylvania. (1759) which was attributed to Franklin in the edition of 1812, but in a letter of September 27, 1760 to David Hume, he states that he published this book and denies that he wrote it, other than a few remarks that were credited to the Pennsylvania Assembly, in which he served. The phrase itself was first used in a letter from that Assembly dated November 11, 1755 to the Governor of Pennsylvania. An article on the origins of this statement here includes a scan that indicates the original typography of the 1759 document. Researchers now believe that a fellow diplomat by the name of Richard Jackson to be the primary author of the book. With the information thus far available the issue of authorship of the statement is not yet definitely resolved, but the evidence indicates it was very likely Franklin, who in the Poor Richard's Almanack of 1738 is known to have written a similar proverb: "Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power." o Many variants derived from this phrase have arisen and have usually been incorrectly attributed to Franklin: + "They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." "Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither" "He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security" "He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither" "If we restrict liberty to attain security we will lose them both." "Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." "He who gives up freedom for safety deserves neither" http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Benjamin_Franklin
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zappaisgod
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: zappaisgod]
#5601052 - 05/07/06 01:29 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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It is also, in fact, a stupid position if you ignore the "essential" vs "temporary" modifiers. Then it becomes just plain foolish.
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kotik
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: mrlinus41]
#5601654 - 05/07/06 04:38 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
that's not even really my main point, the points im making is in kotik's profile "those who sacrifice liberty for safety deserve neither." - Benjamin Franklin
it doesnt sound like you care at all about your liberty, you just want alcohol.
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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mrlinus41
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: kotik]
#5601690 - 05/07/06 04:47 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Alcohol is easy to get thats not the issue at all, I just think its a bad law, even from a practical standpoint. Thats just my oppinion. Its easy to argue against it if the drinking age doesn't affect you negatively.
-------------------- www.18todrink.com change a stupid law
Edited by mrlinus41 (05/07/06 04:49 PM)
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kotik
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: mrlinus41]
#5601788 - 05/07/06 05:13 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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explain to me (and others) how lowering the drinking age will affect us positively, in any way at all.
In fact, if you can bring up a good argument at all that doesn't involve the words "fair," or "freedom," i'd like to hear it.
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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mrlinus41
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: kotik]
#5602129 - 05/07/06 06:50 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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It wouldnt affect those over the age of 21 positively at all... but one can not/should not make decisions about laws based on what would benefit them/their demographic.
-------------------- www.18todrink.com change a stupid law
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Silversoul
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: mrlinus41]
#5602186 - 05/07/06 07:06 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
mrlinus41 said: It wouldnt affect those over the age of 21 positively at all... but one can not/should not make decisions about laws based on what would benefit them/their demographic.
So laws should not be beneficial?
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mrlinus41
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: Silversoul]
#5602524 - 05/07/06 08:37 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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i meant based solely on what would benefit them or their demographic, thats obviously something to be considered but im tired of arguin my point if ur not convinced im not gonna convince u without takin a lot of time which i dont want to do. Peace
-------------------- www.18todrink.com change a stupid law
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kotik
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: mrlinus41]
#5602594 - 05/07/06 08:55 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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or perhaps you dont have a single good reason other than the fact you want to drink, and you aren't old enough yet.
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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Konnrade
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: kotik]
#5606168 - 05/08/06 06:57 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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That's MY reason. I usually have plenty of free beer on the weekends anyhow, but it would be nice if I were able to go pick up a bottle of high quality alcohol once in a while. Underaged people are limited to whatever cheap booze they can get someone to buy for them.
-------------------- I find your lack of faith disturbing
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kotik
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: Konnrade]
#5606237 - 05/08/06 07:19 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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the beauty of that though, is it only lasts a few years. before you even know it you will be wishing you were 19 again.
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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OJK
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: kotik]
#5606266 - 05/08/06 07:27 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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I think there should be an age at which one becomes a legal adult, and at that age a person gains the ability to drive, smoke, drink, take drugs, basically participate in any activity that society generally prohibits to "adults" of one age or another.
To be honest, I think anything else is bullshit, regardless of whether or not you think it's better for society to have a higher drinking age than driving age. It's the same argument that people use to ban drugs entirely. If it's fundementally a matter of personal responsibility, you have to allow it. Adults are adults.
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guri
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: OJK]
#5606531 - 05/08/06 08:40 PM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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what i think is wrong about the law is that it puts you into the catogory of being a criminal for an action that other adults are legal to commit. furthermoore many places have some harsh drinking penalties (in my county its a mandatory $450 fine for a first time offence plus 6 months of unsupervised probation). i could understand just taking the kids alcohol or if they are drunk and out of booze just to escort them home (to protect AND SERVE).
also the federal government doesnt set the law at 21. instead it will not provide money for road construction in the states that dont have the law set at 21.
-------------------- "If you don't believe drugs have done good things for us, then go home and burn all your records, all your tapes, and all your CDs because every one of those artists who have made brilliant music and enhanced your lives? The Beatles were so fucking high, they let Ringo sing a few songs." --Bill Hicks
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gluke bastid
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: kotik]
#5608207 - 05/09/06 10:43 AM (17 years, 10 months ago) |
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For awhile in the 70s and 80s a bunch of states (including Maryland, Texas and New York) lowered the drinking age from 21 to 18. The amount of alcohol related deaths and drunk driving accidents increased rapidly. Everyone got together and realized it was a mistake. So they changed it back to 21.
Sorry kids.
-------------------- Society in every form is a blessing, but government at its best is but a necessary evil - Thomas Paine
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